Who Knew Powering Traffic Signals Was Such An Issue?
from the solutions-galore dept
Honestly, of all the problems in the world, we never quite realized that getting power to traffic signals was one of the more pressing needs -- but with two totally different solutions being talked about in a single week, apparently it's been bugging more than a few people. Say it with me now: we're entering a traffic signal power bubble. First, there was the solar powered traffic signal, which is guaranteed to run out of juice in places that are constantly overcast. Speaking of constantly overcast (joking, joking), the second traffic signal power alternative comes from England, where they're looking at a raised metal ramp that gets pushed down every time a car drives over it, generating some power for the traffic light. Of course, you wonder if drivers begin to freak out when they start driving over ramps that drop under them. Also, while it may save on power, you have to wonder how costly it is to go in and install these ramps.
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No Subject Given
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Integrated traffic signals on the dashboard
Of course the industry lacks the enthusiasm and will to get together, define locked standards for this and make it standard in all automobiles.
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Re: No Subject Given
If we had good mass transit, then the need for all these power-saving stoplights would disappear -- and we'd reduce our consumption of all sorts of natural resources, and pollute less too!
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Idiocy
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You'd be surprised at the uses of solar in transpo
For example there are crosswalk warning lights on a 50% duty cycle in St. Paul, MN (short days, lots of overcast/snow in winter) that operate entirely on solar now with 6 sq. in. panels. Not having to design power also saves quite a bit in engineering costs and construction is much simpler.
So, I know it sounds silly, but it's a better idea than it sounds.
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Re: No Subject Given
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Missing the point
In residential areas that need new lights, this often mean tearing up the street or sidewalk for days or weeks at a time, making it impossible for people to drive to their homes.
Think, "we need a two-way stoplight at a narrow bridge in a remote area, but we don't have any power source."
I agree that public transport is a great idea, but you need power lines for that too, and it can't reach everywhere...
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Re: Idiocy
"It's not saving energy, it's just getting it from a different source"... well, yeah. That's the idea of power systems. What the ramp idea proposes is "hey, we have these cars that are just burning their energy to turn 4 little wheels. Let's harness some of the energy that's being wasted".
And if you think about it through the eyes of a physicist, it's not the car's fossil fuels that are being used to power the ramps. It's the car's kinetic and potential energy -and heck, even mass and gravity- to push the little peddle down.
All of these alternate ideas are converting one power source into another. I think the idea of using the kinetics of these vehicles is a good one. Those cars and trucks are going to pass that spot in the road, over and over again, regardless of presence of this ramp. Why not take advantage of that wasted kinetic energy? It's not going to be 100% efficient, but then again, no conversion of energy is.
Personally, I think it's very forward-thinking (a rarity, now-a-days) and step in a good direction.
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No Subject Given
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VIDEO GAME VIOLENCE
GAMES ARE THE CAUSE OF VIOLENCE IN KIDS!
BY THE WAY GO SUCK A DOG!
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Re: No Subject Given
When you factor in the gov't subsidy to the car companies (for building and maintaining the roads), I bet transit systems compare favorably.
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Re: Idiocy
It might actually save a little since cars that are stopping anyway (which would presumably be about half) are burning their momentum in the form of heat given off by the brakes. Instead now they're applying a bit of that momentum to climbing (and subsequentally depressing) a ramp. It's the same general idea of the Prius -- taking energy from the braking process instead of letting it go to waste.
That said, I would expect the primary value not to be the energy savings, but rather that they work when the grid is down and don't require power lines to be strung to every intersection (especially in more remote areas).
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Re: Integrated traffic signals on the dashboard
You would also lose the value of being able to anticipate what other traffic would do -- like knowing that a left-turn signal is turning yellow so the next person through is likely to come flying across to try to beat the light.
But, perhaps more importantly, how in the world would a pedestrian or bicyclist know what the signal said? Would they
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Re: Idiocy
"hey, we have these cars that are just burning their energy to turn 4 little wheels. Let's harness some of the energy that's being wasted".
When my 4 little wheels drive over that "speed bump" my car slows down, I have to push on the gas pedal to make my 4 little wheels go the same speed they were going before the speed bump. The only way I don't use more gas is if I'm braking, which is fine except that I would hope that I'm traveling through intersections more than I'm stopping at them (although it never seems to be the case)
Regardless, this energy conversion process is MUCH more inefficient than the city's power generation systems. Sure this might work for remote locations where getting the power there is an issue, but don't think for a second that you're getting free energy, or using energy that's going to waste anyways.
If you passed over 100 of these things daily, not only are you going to incur vehicle maintenance costs (warped tread on tires, worn shocks etc) but you will get noticeably lower miles per gallon in the long run.
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How about...
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A better solution
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Re: Integrated traffic signals on the dashboard
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Re: Missing the point
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a stupid idea
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2 cents
Never understood those things anyway...red, green, amber....who the hell came up with that?
Darn acid dropping hippies.
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I don't get it
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Re: Idiocy
It's like the idea of generating large scale power with tidal flows.. It's good in theory, but salt water is highly corrosive.
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No Subject Given
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Re: A better solution
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Re: Idiocy
Of course you're wasting energy... hence my statment about not being 100% effecient. No, I'm not a physicist.... but I play one on TV. Sorry, couldn't resist.
My point was that the ramps aren't going to impact your forward momentum that much. Those ramps cannot have that much resistance. If they were like hitting a curb, the city (or whichever municipality) would have rejected the idea. They'd have forseen how much they'd be paying out in vehicle repairs.
I'd be willing to bet that they are more of a rocker that moves when you pass over it. In fact, the article quotes an official as saying "'The ramp is silent, comfortable and safe for vehicles,' Mr Hughes said. ".
I really don't see where people are believing that they are going to have to hit the gas to get over these things. Have you seen the pics in the articles? They are very small. I'd bet that you don't even notice them as more than an uneven joint in the pavement.
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R U living in a computer simulation?
http://www.simulation-argument.com/
By all means, please prove me wrong. But as people seem to continue to get dumber each and every day, I become ever more convinced that people are getting more stupid because the similuation computer is running out of CPU strokes as the 'human' population continues to grow almost exponentially.
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Re: R U living in a computer simulation?
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Mass Transit
Yeah. Like Europe's a big beacon of morality, democracy (efficient democracy anyway), technology, and economic efficiency. Typical american worker has twice the productivity, give or take, of a Frenchman. Works nearly twice as long, too.
We, unlike what passes as people in Europe, value independence and mobility. I dont want to wait for a damn bus to swing by, or make my way to train station, just to go load up on cheap imported Chinese goods over at the Walmart. Why make a 5 minute car trip in to a 30 minute bus ride with the scum of society sharing my seat? At least I can't be sneezed on in my own car, either.
That created the fossil fuel issue. To which we shall ultimately respond with a solution, such as converting to hydrogen to maintain that independence. Unlike Europe, which is cowering, surrendering the level of independence in life which we hard-working Americans enjoy.
So quit bitching for christ sake. Panzees in Europe will be panzees, Americans will be independent and unbowed, and the Japanese will continue to make excellent electronics and cram in to subways 'cause they're overflowing their island.
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No Subject Given
Nonetheless a brilliant idea, espeicially if they remained stationary and only activated when the light was red to absorb the energy of braking vehicles. With an LED light system I imagine the energy draw at a busy intersection would be negligible. Then again I wonder how much juice it takes to run the buried sensors that detect when a vehicle is sitting at a red light.... I wish more intersections had those.
What if we put giant magnets on the bottom of our cars and pass over a grid to generate power... that would be pretty neat.
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Re: Idiocy
Not exactly. Almost all of the energy created using this method will be from GRAVITY (which is free). The car (having a large mass) will press DOWN on the ramp to create the energy. And the ramp doesn't even have to have a large incline to create the necessary power...even an inch or two of incline times the large number of cars driving over it would more than suffice.
Besides, I think you'd be hard pressed to notice ANY difference in fuel efficiency between cars that drive over ramps and cars that don't. It's so negligable that I doubt you could even measure it.
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Moderation
+1 insightful
The problem being solved is probably how to initially get power lines run to newly placed traffic lights - Chris
+1 insightful
Almost all of the energy created using this method will be from GRAVITY (which is free) - doubledoh
LOL! +2 humour
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Re: A better solution
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Induction?
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Sorry Mike
Please provide proof that this is the case.
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Power from the expressway
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bad idea
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More motorcycle unfriendly technology
Just put up solar panels+wind generators plus LED traffic lights. Problem solved, cheaply and safely.
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No Subject Given
As for those who advocate public transport - PISS OFF. If you think I'm going to want yobs arriving by the coach-load and train-lines going across the middle of Rannoch Moor, you've got another think coming. Public transport is inherently limited by its majorityist approach, while the car is far more flexible. It would be equally viable to tell the government to stop wasting money on public transport altogether and make cars more of a commodity item.
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Re: No Subject Given
In America, much of what you say is true.
In other (civilized) countries, it's not.
Hell, in Australia, I even took a train/taxi to the out to the country side so that I could fly ultralight airplanes... recreationally... on the weekends.
Telecommuting and living close to work (close enough to bicycle, walk or take a tram/train/subway go a LONG way towards eliminating the need for personal transportation.
When gass prices go through the roof, America is going to bear the brunt due to its complete disregard for maintaining the infrstructure of good mass transportation... and that infrastructure take a *LONG* time to build and develope and do right.
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