Movie Industry Problems: Not My Fault
from the the-blame-game dept
We've had plenty of stories this year about problems with the movie business, and we've made it clear that we believe the problem is with the deteriorating overall experience (which includes movie quality, price, theater comfort, theater noise, advertising etc.) combined with many other options for entertainment dollars and time, but it's amusing to watch the industry point fingers as news comes out that the box office take is down for the third year in a row. While many of the points do have some truth (though, not quite sure about the person who blames the fact that movies portray one political view more than others as the problem), what's funny is that all of the blame statements point to someone else as the cause of the problem. No one wants to change what they do -- and insist everything's dandy if everyone else changes.
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Movie Goers
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Re: Movie Goers
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No Subject Given
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Movies
Dear Movie Industry,
1. I don't like commercials before or during my movie.
2. I don't like the movie price.
3. I don't like feeling stuffed in the seats like a sardine.
Change those three things, and I'll consider going to the movies again.
Sincerely,
A Moviegoer
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No Subject Given
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Movies suck!
And speaking of quality of movies, let's take a look, shall we? A selection of the "box office smashes" (top 100 Box Office gross 2005), and think about how many you'd actually want to see.
Hitch
Saw I... I mean Saw II
The Ring... II
Sahara
Flightplan
White Noise
Miss Congeniality II
The Adventures of Shark Boy and Lava Girl in 3-D
Cheaper by the Dozen 2
The Island
Because of Win-Dixie
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
Two For the Money
Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo
House of Wax
Sky High
Herbie: Fully Loaded
[#13 2005 Box Office] King Kong, the supposed savior - I've seen King Kong. There are already two fairly popular releases of this movie, and that's just live action. Oooh, Peter Jackson's making it, it's gonna look pretty, it's gonna be awesome, it's going to change the way we think about movies... But guess what, Hollywood? I'm not spending money on a movie I've ALREADY SEEN. I don't care how much "better" it looks. It's the same movie.
Gee, if those were in the Top 100, I just can't UNDERSTAND why people didn't go see movies this year.
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Re: Movies
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Re: Movie Goers
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Re: Movie Goers
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we are not all that bad
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Re: we are not all that bad
It's the only theater I can stand to go to.
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Re: Movie Goers
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Movies ... heh
Firstly, the high prices put going OUT to a movie vs. renting one and staying home into a no-brainer.
Secondly, I can bypass the previews on a DVD or see none at all on a downloaded version. I *have* to sit through 20 minutes of them at a theatre.
Third, Commercials? Who's hare-brained idea was that to put the last nail into the coffin?? It *may* BIG *MAY* have been acceptable if the prices had lowered ANY at all...but they simply didn't. Don't tell me "Well they didn't go up quite as fast because of the revenue offset" BS!
Thanks!
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Re: Movies
4. I DON'T LIKE THE CONCESSION LINE. PERIOD.
It's completely ludicrous to see 50 customers waiting in two super lines, with two staff behind the counter scrambling to fill popcorn bags, or worse (and more common) staff taking 5 minutes per customer because they could give a shit (It's as if the theatre DOESN'T want to make money off their primary source of income)
So .. what happens then? I either wind up:
-forfeiting the snacks, enjoy the movie less, don't return to the crummy theatre, or
-wait in the terrible line, miss half the movie, don't return to the crummy theatre
Same result. Theatre owners, clean up your act once and for all. Come to think of it, I wonder if the MPAA could do something useful for a change, and impose harsh sanctions for theatres that underperform in customer service.
That'd probably fix the slump overnight. Yep, I bet it would.
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Re: Movies
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Re: Movies ... heh
Have you tried with "Almighty Bruce"? Universal thinks that I want to watch ads for other movies first before the main menu appears everytime I put the disc in my player.
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Re: Movies ... heh
Try to fast forward and...."Operation prohibited by disk"! Even the legal warning gets in on the same act!! Have they never thought of just putting it on the packaging????
It's obtrusive and unnessassary.
Why am I having to pay to see adverts?
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Re: Movies ... heh
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Why a theatre at all?
The so-called "theatre experience" may actually exist for live theatre, but movie houses are just a big inconvenient place for spreading the flu.
When you can by a DVD player for the price of two theatre tickets there should hardly even be any discussion...
A few creative and enterprising theatre owners may be able to survive, more power to them. But if you want to make money don't sell to a shrinking market.
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Re: Movies
I would NOT do that for a movie of any sort, ever.
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Re: Movie Goers
Bogus reasons for not going to the movies: This past Thursday my wife and I headed to a movie theatre (last time was about 4months ago); we're new to the area; it's a nice area. Although, the theatre was "messy"; that fact will not shy me away from the movies; just that theatre; there are many other theatres around (some parts); I guess I can see this one being true for those who can't go anywhere else. Long concession stand lines: when have they been short; this is all part of the moving going experience. Everyone is all packed in; when haven't we? Too many commercials: who cares, don't you go to the movies with company? Talk during the commercials; I'm sure no one will mind. I do agree with the prices being too high; but if the quality of movies increases, it might just be worth it. One idea; if you're going with your kidsgroup go to a matinee; that's what I do and you do save a tone.
My wife and I used to go about 2 to 3 times a month; we live in the Tri-State area and have many other options yet we liked the movie going experience. The fact that the quality of movies has taken a dive has kept us away.
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Re: Movies
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Re: we are not all that bad
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Re: we are not all that bad
Make your theater a destination that works well with its audience and you'll get a committed crowd, otherwise you'll get a bunch of unhappy complainers who'll just stay home. At my local multiplex which I can walk to all I get is bad expensive food, $10+ tickets, and noisey audiences who yack on their cell phones and get in shouting matches - I've even seen fights break out with the cops called. Guess what, we almost never go there any more.
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why not be dependent
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Re: Movies ... heh
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Re: Why a theatre at all?
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Re: we are not all that bad
Crap that comes out these days, half the time it's not even worth the 4.5gb download let alone burning on a DVD.
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Re: we are not all that bad
Where's your theater?..if it's close I'll go
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Random thoughts on the problem
What passes as good stories is just pathetic. While the quality of writers hasn't changed, the process of picking which movies get made has. In the '70s, the years before the "blockbuster", a highly diverse set of movies got made. If you don't believe me, then look at the '70s Academy Award Nominees and compare them to the last 10 years.
While independent films seem to be the future for films, places like Sundance have been invaded and taken over by the Hollywood star. Unless your independent flick has a big name star or a relatively large budget, forget it.
The movie industry is failing in the same way the record industry is, bad product. And why in a capitalistic environment aren’t there any competitors. One word, distribution. Distribution is a closed system. If Pixar can’t distribute their own movies without going to the likes of Disney, then no one can.
So where is all this heading (for movies and music both)? I’d say, distribution has to change. Here are a few of the possible channels that will open things up and shake up the big boys: the Internet, Netflix, Cable Companies, IPTV, podcasting, etc.
Then once you have an alternative distribution mechanism, then the biggest nut to crack is marketing. Being able to make an independent film is hard enough. Making money off of it is nearly impossible.
The movie industry is the way it is because of how the public reacts. You want it to change, then change your behavior. Go see smaller movies. Wait a week or two to see the big budget ones which will give you a chance to check out the real reviews, ones made by movie-goers not critics. Go to smaller chains.
As long as we keep eating up their slop, then all we’re going to get is slop.
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No Subject Given
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they should be paying ME
So, I stopped buying DVD's as well. I now download every single movie I want from the internet for free, commercial free and nicely compressed to store on my server so I can watch my movies from 3 different rooms without worrying about misplacing or scratching a poorly conceived scratch-magnet (DVD). I had/have plenty of money to spend of movies that I like, but there's no way in hell I'll ever pay money to be advertised to when competing entertainment mediums couldn't get away with it (music cd's--no ads, books--no ads, video games--no ads--at least the ones i buy, going out to eat/drink--no ads, hanging out with freinds--no ads, browsing the internet--no ads--with adblock, etc etc etc). Now, when I subscribe to magazines, i don't mind ads because the writers need to get paid and that's their primarily source of income. But all other mediums charge WAY too much money to even THINK about including ads and interupt my enjoyment or entertainment experience.
So, I went from spending about $1500 USD a year on movies and/or dvds (I'm a big movie buff), to paying ZERO. And you know what? I'm now getting pretty used to paying zero. It's going to take alot for me to become a movie industry supporter again...and I can garaunf'ingtee you that they aint gonna win me over with HDDVD/bluray discs with all the proposed encryption (and certainly advertisements) that will be on them. I can garauntee you that I won't be downloading overpriced, inconvenient, encrypted files that I can't watch on all my computers/devices. Nope, they pretty much lost me as a customer. The only way they'll get me back is by selling unencrypted files with no advertisements on them for half the price.
I'd gladly pay $10 USD for a compressed HD video file with no restrictions on it. I'd probably buy 4 or 5 of them every week. And I bet most people that like movies would do the same.
The movie industry forget that they'll never be able to stop people that just aren't going to pay no matter what. They need to write those people off as outside their market and stop screwing their legitimate paying customers by treating them like potential criminals or mindless drones that will sit through their mandatory marketing. Until then, the only money I'll be spending on the entertainment industry will be my donations to azureus and bram cohen.
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Re: Movies
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Re: we are not all that bad
Unfortunately, it's a bit far to drive to whatever alternate dimension you live in because there are no theaters like yours near me... ;-)
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No Subject Given
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Re: we are not all that bad
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Re: Movies ... heh
Pete, have you seen how many commercials run on cable TV during any given segment of time? It's ridiculous. And we're all paying a hefty monthly cable subscription price for all those commercials. Unfortunately, it's the sign of the times.
As for big-studio Hollywood, as soon as they start making decent movies again, sans commercials, I'll start thinking of returning to the theater. Meantime, it's Netflix for me. Anyway, with digital video quality constantly improving and coming down in price, along with the ease of obtaining movies for home viewing, those theaters will be gone soon anyway, along with the local Blockbuster.
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Re: they should be paying ME
Somehow I knew that was coming.
I don't think anyone would have a problem if you went cold turkey and gave up watching movies altogether. If the industry can't keep you as a customer, that's tough. But to resort to trading in illegal copies of their product... that's like if you or I decided to boycott McDonald's b/c we hated their surly help and fattening food, and many more reasons besides, but that it was somehow our right to be able to use their parking lot and bring our own food and drink to eat on their premises. All the same sorts of arguments you're making could be made in the McDonald's case, and they're just as bogus. If you're going to freeload, better make sure you're staying within the law.
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Supply and Demand
Changes in price do NOT shift the demand curve because the demand curve plots different potential prices. Decreasing prices of a good do not increase that good's demand.
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I still go to movies...
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Re: we are not all that bad
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Re: they should be paying ME
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Re: they should be paying ME
Personally, I go to the movies once or twice a year. I saw the Star Wars Trilogy, the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, Batman Begins, and Munich at the local theater. So basically, one or two films a year are released that I would watch--which I guess isn't that bad. My main issue is with the direction of these movies and the whole Hollywood attitude. You can see their direction by watching the Oscars. All they do is give out awards on a political basis. How else can you explain "Million Dollar Baby" bringing in four awards? But does it really matter who wins? Well, it doesn't affect me personally, but it does foreshadow the future of the film industry. Who's going to see "Brokeback Mountain"? I'm sure not, but it will win a lot of awards come March. See what I mean?
I used to download files illegally using BitTorrent, but I have since halted. It is illegal and no matter how much I can rationalize it, it is still wrong. So I stopped. I do believe that $10 ($8 matinee) for a movie (I live in San Diego) is ludicrous, not to mention $4 for a soda and $5 for a bag of popcorn. The commercials don't bother me, I just talk through them and my wife and I always plan on at least 10 minutes of advertisements so we can get there a little late and bypass them all together if we want.
I’m not sure how the pricing for movies works, but I’m sure we are paying a “reasonable” (by that I mean a fair price considering the mega budgets put into these movies which is passed on to the customer which is the movie theater) price, albeit too high. I don’t understand why they don’t price their movies according to their cost. I can see paying $10 for Revenge of the Sith (which was loaded with special effects and cost a lot to make), but not Munich (which had no special effects and was relatively inexpensive). Oh well. I will still see movies I want in the theater and the fact that their might only be one or two good ones a year will help offset the higher prices in my budget. My only issue now is there is nothing to rent. All the good movies I’ve seen or own (which is only a few) and the rest are just junk.
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Re: Movie Goers
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Re: they should be paying ME
I live in England.
Me, wife & daughter go to the movies.
Online booking fee £1.50
Tickets (2 adults 1 child) £17
Drink and a snack if desired for 1 person £5 yes £5..
Travel expenses to and from the cinema is by car £4.25 for a gallon of gas here in the UK.
So there you go, the most expensive cinema going in the world as I see it and I aint earnin a lot of money.
Life sux and they wonder why I download movies and tv series off the net.
I approximate my family visit to be $58.60
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Re: they should be paying ME
A. they pay for the space, and present it to the public for use.
B. they are makeing the ALL the profit that they would be other wise.
C. mabey they will decide to make healthy ham sandwiches.
the point is that many of us really enjoy a good movie experiance. problem is that really crappy ones get hyped up. how do I know that King Kong was any good unless i see it. and if it turns out to be ape feces, ive already paid the con man. no thanks. not like mcdonalds where you can see the product before you purchase it.
I download the movie (legal), screen it (legal), and if i like it. I pay money to those who produced it (legal). I buy a copy, or go see it on the big screen. If i dont, and that happens to be most of it. I delete it.
and if you wanna talk about illegal. actually read something.. like the DMCA
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Re: Movies ... heh
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Re: Movies
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Re: they should be paying ME
Actually, it's not even close. As someone that refuses to buy their content until the prices go down and the advertising stops, they don't get a dime whether I watch or don't watch their movies. I am not driving onto anyone's property and using their physical goods. My downloads cost no one (except the ISP I pay). Completely false analogy on your part.
If anything, the movie industry should be happy that I still watch their swill. At least there is a chance that I'll return as a paying customer once they fix their broken model. I could say "screw movies forever" and choose only to entertain myself with video games and books. At the very least, at least I'm able to market for the bastards when they do make the occasionally excellent film. Alot of my less discriminating friends go see movies in the theatres that I've recommended because I downloaded them.
Bottom line, you people need to learn once and for all the difference between copyright violations and physical theft. Theft deprives someone of their goods or revenue. My copyright violations deprived no one because I wouldn't buy the movies ever until they rip their goddamn ads out of them. Thus, they are not losing money. It's not like I say to myself, "Today I must do one of two things, buy this movie, or download it for free." What I really am saying is, "I can read this book, play this game, or I can watch a downloaded movie." Any way you cut it, Hollywood doesn't get a dime.
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Re: they should be paying ME
The justify price fixing by regulating supply (big movies have wide 2000+ screen releases, and indies might be lucky to get 10 screens in LA/NY). I definately like the variable pricing model. My hope is that in the future, the big movie studios won't be able to compete with the innovations of indie movie makers and computer geeks that get together to make and distribute movies outside the hollywood theatre machine. With really decent prosumer cams coming in at under 5 grand, editing software under a grand, and p2p eliminating distribution costs, the only major expense is marketing...and even that can be cheap with a viral blog campaign. I see millions of smaller, more clever movies in the future completely out of the hands of the movie cartels. I wouldn't be surprised if movies get made (or at least reimbursed) by donations alone. (ie, at the end credits, "If you liked this movie, please donate whatever you want to so and so at www.indiemovieco.com").
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Re: Movies ... heh
Yes however those are shows bundled in packages, that run whether or not you've specifically chosen to see them. They run whether the TV is on or off. The ads run as well, whether or not you may be watching. A theatrical movie is more akin to a pay-per-view program, a show that you've specifically chosen then paid for the privelege to watch. Would you tolerate a commercial in a pay-per-view show? Of course not.
You paid to see a specific program. You did not pay to see a commercial. That is the difference. Obviously, people today are not tolerating it and that is precisely why theatre sales are on the decline.
So, let the theatre owners rant and dig their heels in on this one; we'll all just laugh at their pig-headedness while we buy out their bankrupt properties.
Why can I say this? Because I am the customer. You don't TELL ME how I should consume your product, rather it is I THAT TELLS YOU how I will consume it. If, as a business owner you don't like my rules, then I spend my money at your competitor.
Yes, I am the customer. Remember you are here to service my needs, not your own. You play by my rules, or you don't play at all.. and you can watch as I take my business across the street.
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You Want me at the Movies?
Hitch --> Anyone heard of Cyrano D'Bergerac (spelling??)
King Kong --> Haven't they already made this one?
Cheaper by the Dozen 2 --> Why make a second one?
Herbie: Fully Loaded --> Take Lindsey Lohan out, what's left?
C'Mon, the populace are not idiots, and when you package crap in a nice box with a bow on top, it's still crap!
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Re: they should be paying ME
No, because I'd visit the restaurants when they are at least half empty so I wouldn't be depriving any paying customers of parking spaces or seats. The restaurants are already paying the mortgage, utilities and labor whether I go there or not. And I wouldn't be buying Big Macs and sodas there regardless, so they're certainly not losing any of my money. But, you know, it's likely that on some of my stops I might get extra hungry and decide to buy something at the lunch counter, against my better judgement, so my exercise of my "Basic Freedoms in the Automotive Age" would actually be *helping* McDonald's.
In both cases - illegal downloading and McDonalds squatting - we're talking about freeloading off a company's huge fixed investment (including per-project fixed costs, such as for making and marketing a specific movie), which the company *must* make in order to competitively serve *any* customers. Then we argue that since that investment represented sunken cost, we're not hurting them in any way. Balderdash. They calculate that the customers who are motivated enough to seek their products and service will cover their fixed costs *as well as* the variable costs (manufacturing and distribution of DVDs and movie reels, hamburgers and soda concentrate, etc). Sure, many potential customers will decide the product or service isn't worth paying for, and some may go on line and rattle off a long list of reasons why it's crap. That's OK, as long as they don't stealthily take some or all of the product w/o paying.
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Re: Movies
1 - 2 people doing to the movies is about 15 bucks, not too bad, but a familiy of 4 with 2 kids?? (or larger?) nah, not worth it.
Like someone else said, you get shit movies or remakes of shit movies.
King Kong? Good lord, it was done how many times??? What's next Mighty Joe Young?
If you want to cry and point fingers, look in the mirror.
Just because you indy ppl can afford (not like you would pay for the movies you go see) the prices, doesn't mean the average person can (or wants to).
The issue is this, I walked into a theater a few months ago. There was a soda machine in the hall going to the left wing of theaters......$4.50 for a bottle of Coke.
When you can pick and choose what / when / how you watch your movies, in the comfort of your own home, with things under your control, for a fraction of the price?
Are poeople that stupid that they dont get it?
Just an FYI,
DVD Rental - $2.99 (5 night rental)
popcorn - $.99 for a bag that would give me about a garbage bag full of popcorn
2 liter soda - .79 to 1.49 depending on where i get it.
Total 5.47
Same thing at a theater.
Movie tickets $7.50
Popcorn - $4.50 (for a medium)
Soda - $3.50 (for a small)
Total - $15.50
Now, why in the world would I spend 3 times as much and have to deal with other people when I can wait 2 or 3 months and watch it on DVD and get all the extras and the control.
duh.
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Re: Movies ... heh
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Re: No Subject Given
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Movie Industry Problems in Brazil
I'm from Brazil, and the Movie Industry problems discussed in US is the same as in Brazil.
Movie Industry says that problem is the non legal DVD comerce, that decrease the selling of original DVDs and movie tickets. I think that movie theatres would be better if we weren't obligated to watch lots of ads before movie: tickets price has increased. Here, we gotta pay about 5 dollars for a ticket (this can seem not so expensive for you, but it's "an assuault" for a country where most of people have to live with a minimum salary of US$128.00). I think that the price we pay is enough to cover the movie expenses. We don't have (and we don't want) to pay for ads...
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My take on it all.....
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is the price versus theater size. As movies age, the theaters start to show them in smaller theaters with less seats, worse sound and smaller screens. My problem with that is that they don't adjust the price. I'm still paying $18 ($9 x 2 for the date) to see a movie that I can buy for less in a month or so. The upside is the lack of people in the show, but it still sucks as neither the sound nor screen are impressive and it's still the same price. Even knocking a buck off the price would make me happier, and would likely bring more people out to see it.
As for the topics covered, I see only 2 that drive people to the theater: Seeing the movie on a large screen and seeing it when it is new.
Personally, I have never been al too impressed with the video quality of the large screen. Slap a DVD in the player on a large HD screen and it looks 3 times better. Couple that with even a low-end surround system and I'm happy. Back to the theater, I hate how they don't talk about what kind of projection they use. I don't know that I've ever seen digital projection in the theater, and I don't know how I would know.
As for seeing a new movie, for my money, I don't care if I see a movie when it comes out or not. When people ask "Hey did you see that new (insert terrible movie here)" I can say no and that's that. The person will say "you should" or "don't waste your time". A few months later, if I wanted to see it, I can buy it for less than it would have cost me to go to the theater. What's more, I can watch it as many times as I want. As a bonus, when I make my backup copy of the DVD, I can simply strip out the previews, forced ads, macrovision, css, etc. and just enjoy the movie. Lower the lights, insert the disc, press play and watch the movie.
In the off chance that I NEED to see a movie right away, enter the Internet. I can watch a horrible cam version of a movie the day it is released (sometimes before that). If I'm lucky, I will find a screener. If the movie sucked, nothing lost. If it was good, I'll be buying the DVD. Yes downloading movies is illegal, but there's nothing to stop me from doing it, and the industry ends up with me buying more DVDs than I normally would anyway (a handful every year versus none). And, in the extremely off chance that the movie is really good, I will actually go to the theater!
Personally, I'd rather go to a concert (local shows are about $5-$10 a person), baseball game (~$10-$15 a person), a brew and view show (drink beer while watching 1-2 movies for ~$7), play poker with friends ($10 buy-in), etc.
The theater is a dying breed. There will always be people who love going, but more and more just don't see the need. I am one of those growing majority and have been for some time.
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what's the real problem?
In the end, they still win, cause any method you use to see the content (home, public, even bootlegs), dollars still trickle back to the studios in some form, either from the content itself or the distribution channel, or the products you buy motivated by the content.
The movie threater is just a distribution channel--it's all about the content, and people whinning should just ask themselves, our the independent efforts (indie, internet) really providing better quality of content than the studios? The solution is either save your money (cause media companies have a hand in everything from books to products, to leisure activities!), or learn something (i.e. go back to school or pick up a sport). Otherwise, if you continue to spend any time with their content, then they'll just keep tracking down this path of mediocere storytelling (hmm, Star Wars ROTS is a great example...)
I'm not asking for a boycott, cause changing Hollywood is not gonna happen overnight unless the sutdios or independent content makers spur a revolution (not gonna happen). And the TV itunes thing is not much of a revolution.
The message: spend your dollars in the stuff you needed, not want.
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Movie Industry Changes
How much money does the Movie Industry or for that matter the Music Industry spend on Market Research, to provide products suitable to the customers tastes. Would they rather not spend heaps of money hyping their products, only to disappoint and get the customers ticked off. Do they not spend tons of money trying to bend and control the market, through all their lobbing and legal actions against the customer base.
When are they going to learn how to entertain, while at the same time maybe educating, all within the broad framework of the customers tastes and values???
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No Subject Given
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Re: we are not all that bad
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Movie Theater Experience Stinks
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Re: they should be paying ME
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Sound
Reccently I saw a preview of Alvin and the Chipmunks singing Witch Doctor, the music was more louder then the Chipmunks singing, I barely herd them singing. I like the studios to balance between the music and the actors voices or tone down the music.
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Re: Sound
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