How Dare You Actually Want Secure And Valid Elections?!?
from the take-that,-whistle-blower dept
Back in December, a Florida county ran some hacking tests on Diebold's ballot counting machine and found them to have serious security issues, which made the county elections supervisor, Ion Sancho, ban the questionable machines. Diebold responded not by showing that their machines were secure, but by cracking jokes about the whole thing. Why were they so amused by the whole situation? Perhaps because they're the ones in the power position. They were able to get around a similar ban in California and now none of the approved voting machine vendors will even sell approved e-voting machines to Sancho, effectively punishing him for daring to make sure the machines were accurate and secure. This is a bit strange, as you'd expect the other two approved firms, Sequoia Voting Systems and Election Systems & Software, would jump at the chance to both replace Diebold and prove their machines accurate and secure. Instead, it sounds like the only firm that is even willing to negotiate with him... is Diebold. But, they want to put in a clause in the contract that would ban him from conducting any such tests again. Instead, he'd only be allowed to perform "authorized" tests -- because we all know that anyone involved in election fraud follows the "authorized" rules for hacking these machines. Diebold also spins things around by complaining that Sancho is responsible for undermining "the public's confidence in the security and accuracy" of Diebold machines. That's funny, we thought Diebold was doing a damn fine job of that entirely on its own.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Down With Democracy
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How much?
How much has Diebold, et al, spent on political "campaign contributions"?
I find it interesting that as much as U.S. Representatives love to hold hearings to puff themselves up, none of them have even brought up the subject of investigating such anti-democratic efforts.
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Diebold and fraud
Stories like the above are the sort that lead to further nightmares along these lines.
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hillary clinton defeated due to voter fraud?
somone would actually vote for hillary clinton..
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Same with computers - they are only as secure as the people that maintain and program them are. Everyone's got their price and there's no short supply of money in politics when it gives someone power.
So sure - only run "authorized" tests on them, WTF??? What kind idiot came up with that? Some stupid corporate weenie sitting behind a desk with about as much knowledge of computers as my dog.
There's only one thing that's for sure in the world of computers - if someone can code it, someone else can hack it.
Everytime I hear something is "secure" or "unhackable" I think of that ship back in 1912 that "couldn't be sunk".... what was it's name again? I know the experts said it COULDN'T be sunk!!!
haha
But seriously - they should perform ANY test that shows a way to compromise security, even if it involves a chainsaw. Seriously - security isn't even a word they should use in the same sentance if they are only going to run "certain tests". That's laughable - and these electonic voting machines loose credibility every single day.
Diebold's going to tarnish their whole name with this - at one point, I thought they were actually a company concerned with "security". I guess they only test deadbolts with plastic drill-bits, huh?
So - I move that we put a motion on the next ballot - to ban any of these voting machines.
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Now ... if you get off your liberal agenda soapboxes ... maybe you will actually see that you actually lost the elections ... not because someone stole them, but because the Democrats have no vision.
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Re:
Sounds like a real world hack to me. Any seal that can be broken can be re-applied. And what about sabotage at the manufacturer, or during shipment? Results have to be verifiable.
>> if you get off your liberal agenda soapboxes
Since when are free, fair, honest elections a "liberal agenda"? Are you really suggesting that conservatives don't care about democracy? I'll predict one thing: if the Democrats win big in Congress and regain the presidency, the Republicans are going to be REAL concerned about the integrity of these systems.
Of course, if I was paranoid, I'd suggest that the only reason to oppose these changes is if you had rigged elections in the past or were planning to in the future. But that's just paranoia, right?
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Re:
I find rather disturbing how sometimes people can get so blind about their governments. Read, do some research, get informed and then act. After all ignorance is the most powerful tool of a corrupt government.
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Re: Re:
Here, here! Well said.
Couple the ignorance with apathy and we become sheep led to slaughter. The only way to worsen the situation is to top it with a healthy serving of arrogance which will seal our fate for generations to come.
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Re:
I'm a Conservative Republican. I have the same problem with the Diebold machines. I agree with this article. Does that mean that I'm on a "liberal soapbox"?
Just because idiotic politicians polarize people by oversimplifying demographics to suit their own needs doesn't make it okay. There are not 2 kinds of people. You can't lump human beings into "this" or "that".
If the world were that simple, we wouldn't need laws.
j
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Re: Idiotic partisan comments
And I've probably been voting Republican longer than you have.
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If someone was able to hack the machine, it should be considered a real world attack. What's to stop me from sneaking in to the polling place in the middle of the night and conducting the same hack? Better yet, what's to stop a party from paying a Diebold tech to rig a certain machine to pass the approved tests, then ballot stuff an election?
The issue at hand here is Diebold, demonstrably, can not be trusted.
If an e-voting machine vendor were held to high standards, there would be little room for after the election finger pointing and accusations. You wouldn't have to make inflammatory remarks because everyone would have sufficient reason to trust the machines provided an impartial election.
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How Dare You Actually Want Secure And Valid Electi
Security is unheard of when it comes to computers. Which the one thing that could keep them from trying to break into the computers is not to have them online but just a few selected times on voter day. Plus not advertise the times that the computers will be online The rest of the time they are collecting the information and as long as there is a paper trail then there should not be any problems if their is a computer crash. Only thing I could come up with to help security wise.
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Not only touch screen but others
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The point is moot when you realize we shouldn't even be voting for the president. We should be more worried about the local representatives that ARE the electoral college.
And another thing, this country isn't a "Democracy", It's a Republic.
Has no one read the Constitution?
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Re:
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Re:
>>Um... No one seems to have brought up the fact that the Citizens of the United States shouldn't even be electing the President. That is the job of the electoral college.
We know this. What does this have to do with the integrity of the voting machines? No one even mentioned voting for president until you brought it up. This problem affects any election.
Dave also said:
>>And another thing, this country isn't a "Democracy", It's a Republic.
Has no one read the Constitution?
Most of us know this too. Really arrogant Dave.
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voting irregularities
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Re:
That you are an admirer of GWB is evident in your similar commands of the English language which you and your fellow GWB fans have aided your leader in nearly annihilating.
Along with the native tongue, you've bundled reason, logic and The Constitution of The United States of America as unnecessary items getting in the way of a future enriched through the constant production and consumption of mindless, illiterate rhetoric.
"Better living through babble".
Perhaps this explains your infatuation for the Diebold machines; you are fightened by a paper ballot because the sight of paper and pencil conjures images of days when schools boldly subjected students to the horrors of spelling and grammar.
You'll be glad to know that under the current administration these are a couple of tortures never inflicted on anyone.
After all, educating the public only makes it harder to rig elections and who wants that?
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It makes the whole "voting machines issue" null and void. We should be more worried about local representation and not what a voting machine did or didn't do when we don't even need them.
Our electoral college doesn't vote by e-voting machines.
We should do away with the fallacy of presidential elections.
Once that has been done, then there are no arguments over voting machines.
Fix the main problem not the symptom of the problem.
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Local Representation
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Re: Local Representation
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Re: Re: Local Representation
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Diebold
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Don't make fun of my spelling
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I take issue with your post. Please provide evidence of your assertions that physical modification of the vote machines EPROM and seal is required.
I would say it was very much a real world hack as Accu Basis is not protected, not even with a CRC, and is capable of modifing the machines functionality.
EPROM != Memory card.
>> in order to hack the machine, someone had to break the physical seal on the machine and change an eprom
Actually the Harry Hursti Hack was using only a modified memory card or via remote access to the GEMS server through TCP/IP.
The memory card is loaded with a modified .abo (AccuBasic exe file) and this modified exe can change vote totals, install a 'cheat code' ect, ect. This can be done months in advance and turned off and on as required.
The other approach of attacking the AccuBasic version on the GEMS server requires no physical access.
Niether of these approaches require physical access to the actual vote machine.
There is a report on BlackBoxVoting.org detailing the testing.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/BBVreport.pdf
Rainman, Please post a link to your version of the hack.
>>Does Gov. Jeb Bush know anything about this and if so is he prepared to do the right thing by backing a public servant doing his job very well?
Yes. Sancho got a letter from J Bush threatening to take over Leon County elections.
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/2197/sanchothreat-19504.pdf
>>And another thing, this country isn't a "Democracy", It's a Republic.
Republic being a subset of Democracy...
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We have everything to gain and nothing to lose, the only people with anything to lose are those corrupt politicians that rely on possibly innaccurate results (not that these people really exist, but it is possible).
I want to make the point that I do not believe that the latest presidential election was "stolen" nor was the one before that. The numbers came out close, but decisions were made and our current president won. If you must know, I did not vote for him (that does not mean I voted democrat instead), but that is really beside the point.
And as to the whole electoral college/local politicians part of the comments: I am not sure where you are from, but here we vote for ALL offices using the same format. An insecure voting machine affects ALL elections, from township trustees to governor of the state. This whole line of reasoning is of no significance.
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Re:
...maybe, but you must concur that an arranged presidential election is something very atractive to do. Why bothering in the subordinates when you can control the ruler's chair?
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Why bother with electronics at all?
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Full Comment Thread!
I would like a receipt to verify later the vote I cast.
"It's not the people who vote that counts, it's the people who count the votes"
-- Josef Stalin
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