Yet Another Expert Points Out That Copy Protection Doesn't Work

TorrentSpy Says MPAA Can't Reinterpret The Supreme Court On File Sharing

from the try,-try-again dept

Mon, Mar 27th 2006 5:18pm — Mike Masnick

When the Supreme Court ruled in the Grokster case, they laid down a very specific case for when a service provider might be liable for the actions of its users. That was only if the service provider took "affirmative steps" to induce copyright violations. This seemed odd and likely to cause trouble pretty quickly. It basically suggested that a new company that came along and did exactly what Grokster had done, but avoided proactively encouraging people to download unauthorized material, would be perfectly fine. However, the entertainment industry immediately tried to expand what the decision meant and eventually just pretended the Supreme Court said that file sharing and things like torrent tracking sites were illegal -- when it actually said nothing of the sort. The MPAA recently went after a bunch of BitTorrent search engines -- which seemed to stretch the Supreme Court ruling again. After all, these are just search engines, and there are tons of legitimate uses for them. At least one is now fighting back. TorrentSpy has filed a motion to dismiss the case, noting that they don't promote any kind of infringement and they don't host or link directly to any files copyrighted by the MPAA. In other words, they're making a case that all they are is a search engine for torrents, and if the industry is worried about people putting up torrents that infringe on copyrights, it should go after those actually responsible, rather than the search engines. Services like TorrentSpy were exactly what it looked like the Supreme Court was trying to carve out as being legitimate -- so it's good to see them standing up for themselves, rather than just giving in to another entertainment industry lawsuit. If they win and get the case dismissed, it could set up some of the boundaries as to just how far the entertainment industry can go.

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119 Comments

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Ari, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:06pm

Title Spelling?
Loved how they totally mispelled "TorrentSpy" in the heading.
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Mike (profile), 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:08pm

Re: Title Spelling?
Oops. Sorry. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Alex, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:10pm

Dunno how you'll fix it, but the RSS still reads: TorrentSpay

(On www.google.com/ig anyway.)
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elaine, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:14pm

I guess that the music industry is trying its way to get back all the things that they have lost with the emergence of piracy and illegal downloading in their business. It would really be disrespectful if the MPAA would snub the decision of the Supreme Court after all.. who holds more power?
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Ari, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:14pm

Re:
Yep. It still says "TorrentSpay...."

I still find that quite funny.
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Mr Wave Theory, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:18pm

Skype Founders Getting Skyped by Morpheus!
Mr Wave Theory tells the inside story ... Skype Founders Getting Skyped by Morpheus! The founders of Skype always seem to be getting into trouble. They are a magnet for trouble. Or are they just trouble itself?
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dj_krztoff, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:25pm

Help control the pirated software population ... have your torrents spayed or neutered.
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human, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:47pm

bad news for users
although this will help allow torrentspy to stay afloat, if torrentspy gets its way, the industry will have no choice but to go after users which is a bit more frightening than having to find another site for my torrents
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AlcoholicPrankMonkey, 27 Mar 2006 @ 6:50pm

Spay MPAA
Maybe there's a torrent you can DL for software that will spay the MPAA. It might calm them down and control some of those hormones that make them run around like headless chickens making villains out of everyone.
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Mr Rat, 27 Mar 2006 @ 7:15pm

the sh*t thing about copyright law in these kind of circumstances is the potential to tie small tech companies in legal knots for years to come - I for one hope they succeed with their motion to dismiss - otherwise this could drag on for years and years and be unbelievably expensive, ultimately have no impact on file sharing and just ruin another legitimate company. Its ultimately irrelevant what the Supreme Court said in Grokster if they can misuse copyright law just by dragging things out.

"if the industry is worried about people putting up torrents that infringe on copyrights, it should go after those actually responsible, rather than the search engines"

this should read: "the industry should realise by now there's nothing they can do to stop people putting up torrents, so should just GIVE UP suing everyone and instead of spending loads of money on lawyers should find a business model that works."
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not that guy, 27 Mar 2006 @ 7:26pm

Business model
Mr.Rat you said it the best, for every dollar the industry spends on lawyers and on trying to preserve a business model that is the way of the past, they should be figureing out a new way to make money. I'll still go out and see a movie if it looks good, or I'll buy a movie if it was good, but if a movie gets bad reviews, or I saw it and it was just ok, I'll download it. Perhaps the studios should try coming up with new ideas, rather then remaking the same story over and over and over. Another idea would be to try to promote loyalty to each studio . Im sure it wont be easy, but they must adapt or die.
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not that guy, 27 Mar 2006 @ 7:28pm

Business model
Mr.Rat you said it the best, for every dollar the industry spends on lawyers and on trying to preserve a business model that is the way of the past, they should be figureing out a new way to make money. I'll still go out and see a movie if it looks good, or I'll buy a movie if it was good, but if a movie gets bad reviews, or I saw it and it was just ok, I'll download it. Perhaps the studios should try coming up with new ideas, rather then remaking the same story over and over and over. Another idea would be to try to promote loyalty to each studio . Im sure it wont be easy, but they must adapt or die.
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XTrek, 27 Mar 2006 @ 7:47pm

Lazy Judge
The fact that TorrentSpy is required to submit this motion for dismissal shows the judge is lazy and not doing his job.
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XTrek, 27 Mar 2006 @ 7:47pm

Lazy Judge
The fact that TorrentSpy is required to submit this motion for dismissal shows the judge is lazy and not doing his job.
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Nowandever29, 27 Mar 2006 @ 8:47pm

Safe downloading
It amazes me that people take the risk of downloading music and movies with BitTorrent clients without protection. I mean, would YOU have unprotected sex? Scratch that...

Anyways, with services like www.secure-tunnel.com providing guaranteed safety via proxying of communications (so your IP cannot be traced) and log files that are deleted after 5 seconds, why would anybody take the risk of lawsuits?

Heck, there are even some free, albeit slower services that do the same thing.
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Justin, 27 Mar 2006 @ 8:53pm

RE: bad news for users
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read it.
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bob, 27 Mar 2006 @ 11:02pm

Personally i have nothing against downloading if u know what i mean. but the mpaa has a right to be annoyed u know. well if that makes downloaders happy, well done torrent'spay'. haha .
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Tilson, 27 Mar 2006 @ 11:23pm

give em hell torrentspy!
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Ghost, 28 Mar 2006 @ 1:23am

not the only site that fights
isohunt.com is also under fire from the mpaa, but in a slightly different way

their argument is basically that they only index torrents, and aren't actually the trackers (which is true, and sort of parallels google indexing content but not hosting it).

interestingly enough, they have an automated system whereby indexed torrents can be requested to be removed.

typical of the mpaa to sue them anyway, although these scare tactics aren't going to work for others that run similar sites.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 1:38am

Re: Mr Rat
here, here!

.... And what's with all the double posts?
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Ben Yahuda, 28 Mar 2006 @ 1:56am

MPAA Can't Reinterpret The Supreme Court
If it wasn't true that most songs and movies flat out suck there might still be a buying public out here.

With as poor as most content is lately (especially movies), the studios out to consider themselves lucky that we bother downloading it at all. I sure wont pay for this crapola.

MPAA, fire the lawyers and hire some writers. We might go back to the theater if there was actually something there to watch.
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thecuddlyotter, 28 Mar 2006 @ 3:20am

They do have a small point
You do have to see it form the point of view of the people in the industry who actually make the films, those who opt for a percentage cut of the films are utterly screwed by downloaders. I recently made an hour and half long film for a group who agreed to buy it from me for basically the cost of making the DVD, only to find that half of them had copied it from the other half. Imagine how pissed off you would be if that happened but tens of thousands of people didn't pay to watch a film you spent a few years making, even if you only were being paid 1% of the revenue you would still lose a not inconsiderable amount.
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Pope Ratzo, 28 Mar 2006 @ 3:59am

Re: Lazy Judge
They have to submit the motion for dismissal, no? Judges will tell a defense attorney to submit a summary dismissal but they'll generally let the parties at least step up. I pretend to be a lawyer in bars to pick up chicks, so I think this is right.

It doesn't really work.
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Matt, 28 Mar 2006 @ 6:25am

Just a note on what thecuddlyotter said. I've gotten music from a number of bands that I've not necccessarily even heard of. Bands from other countries that don't get played on the radio here. And, I've even gone back and ordered a couple CDs if they were good. Or told my friends about them or whatever.

The point is, I would not ever go to the store and buy this CD, never haviing heard it before. But being able to take a test run - or just to randomly pick something new. I've discovered some great new bands. Not all of these are new trying to break in to the industry or something. They just don't get played here. I'm a music junkie, and I don't like being stuck to the top 40 that some jackass picks to play on the 10 radio stations in my area.
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AlcoholicPrankMonkey, 28 Mar 2006 @ 6:39am

I do it but know it's wrong
Although I am a habitual downloader of films/music and feel that the organisations like the twin AA's are basically legalised bullies I do know that what I do is wrong. It is illegal but until something changes, drastically, I wll continue to break the law. I'm not afraid or ashamed to say this as I feel that they, in essence, are stealing from us by producing and promoting what can only be described as utter crap and then expecting us to pay premium prices for it.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 6:50am

Re: I do it but know it's wrong
I agree.
I download GB after GB after GB of software, porno, music, movies, etc. Why? Because they tell me I cant, no other reason. Keep telling me I cant, keep suing kids for this, and in the meantime, I will keep filling up external HD after external HD with more content.

Incase you didnt know, thats a big FU mr MPAA and RIAA.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:08am

I have an idea, why don't we just boycot the music industry in general, let them shoot themselves in the foot for being greedy and doing this. if we don't buy their music we can still get it off the radio or from VH1 and Mtv. It's the world of technology and the price of their doing business means freedom for the rest of us.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:08am

I have an idea, why don't we just boycot the music industry in general, let them shoot themselves in the foot for being greedy and doing this. if we don't buy their music we can still get it off the radio or from VH1 and Mtv. It's the world of technology and the price of their doing business means freedom for the rest of us.
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dnaSpyDir, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:15am

Re: They do have a small point
***warning, rant ahead***

those who opt for a percentage cut of the films are utterly screwed by their managers for putting them into a crap film in the first place...

don't get me wrong, i think it's just as stupid to fill all your drive space with crap, and worse to waste a dvd by writing it out.

while i'm at it, i might as well mention theatres... they SUCK. between the outrageous prices they charge, and an audience made up primarily of people with the manners of a hoard of wild baboons i'd rather just give it a miss. and recently saying it's "illegal" to bring in a video camera in is just plain asinine. it has always been illegal to film a movie in progress, which makes sense, but touch me or my cam, and i will break your wrist. and lastly TURN OFF OR SILENCE YOUR DAMN PHONES!!
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Ben McNelly, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:46am

The thing about it...
What we have here is the same kind of fight for freedom that we had back when America separated from England. Not it all terms, but in theory at least. I don't think people really needed a new land back then, they just wanted freedom. Turns out we don't need their crappy movies, but we know we are being oppressed and we have the power to resist being thumbed down. People hate being smashed by higher powers who are only interested in control and monetary gain. Now, that's their prerogative to be money mongering industry whores, wastefully shelving out smut and crud, but they only do that because we always supported that in the past.

HERES THE DEAL...

As long as "average joe" america goes out and buys, views and rents this stuff like they have for 40 years, the INDUSTRY will remain the same. Now they are dying out slowly, and change is coming but until then, anybody who can figure out how to use BT is a "l33t n00b hack3Rz" and now part of the "La Resistance"... basically seen as the bad guy to the corporate world of the entertainment industry... The corporate yahoos have about as much sense as the ding bats who go out and throw $60 bucks a week on their crap. (Theater, rentals, cd, cell ring, bla bla.... )

So how do things change? The way they always have. People will create alternative ways to produce and distribute mainstream music with the artist being the ones to actually see the profits, Independent films will skyrocket in quantity and quality, online services will improve and become easier for the average joe and the geek culture will continue too evolve and spread.

Sure we will have set backs... like the mass geek suicides when tech guys are called over to their first install or fix of the new version of windows, or BT searches struggle against a machine of lobbyists, lawyers and politicians who have been comfortably pocketed by the media and entertainment industry..

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Ben McNelly, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:48am

BUT
We shall prevail.
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stevekasian, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:48am

Re: They do have a small point
BULLSHIT! They DO NOT have a point! I am one of the artists who's music is DL'ed all over the world, "taking money out of my pocket". But do you know HOW MUCH money is being taken out of my pocket? VERY LITTLE. The simple truth is, there will always be thieves in this world who steal music & movies. But they are a microscopically small percentage of the consumer base that's out there - and always will be. The people who download my work and other's work are very unlikely customers in the first place! I download music and movies myself - I have never once in my lifetime gone out and bought a movie on VHS or DVD, and VHS movies were around LONG before filesharing. I simply don't see the reason to BUY a frikkin movie - any movie - or an album from some shit band that only has 1 or 2 good songs on it. And I shouldn't have to! If someone - millions of people - out there only like 1 or 2 songs on my album of 13 tunes, it's bullshit for me to expect to make an album's worth of money on that listener. And if I suck enough as an artist to have an entire world full of people who feel the same way about my music (only like 1 or 2 songs), then I DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING FOR MY SHIT ART!!

That's the point of this whole debate! ARTISTS ARE NOT ENTITLED TO FINANCIAL COMPENSATION FOR THEIR ART. IF IT'S SOMETHING THE PUBLIC AT LARGE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR, FINANCIAL COMPENSATION SIMPLY BECOMES A BENEFIT OF THAT CONDITION.

WTF is up nowadays with all this "entitlement" bullcrap anyways? Everyone's "entitled" to something anymore. It's pathetic.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:55am

Any one who thinks judges can'd be bought as easily as congressmen has not been paying attention.
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Mekongcola, 28 Mar 2006 @ 8:58am

The MPAA is a joke
These clowns know their days are numbered...

The realize the CAN'T go after the actual SEEDERS of the torrents because;

1. There are WAY too many.
2. They already tried this with poor results.
3. Totally non-cost effective.

The amount they have to pony up to prosecute each seeder FAR exceeds what they will (if ever) get back in payment...Not to mention the time involved...

Basically they know they’re screwed so they are getting desperate and trying every damn avenue they possibly can...The best they can hope for at this point is a propaganda campaign letting people know it’s “bad” to DL their material and they “might” be prosecuted someday, kinda like the FBI warning on old VHS tapes; do not copy or distribute or else!!!

This is the death rattle of the music/movie cartel...I will watch with amusement.

BTW: who knows the TORRENT sight for V for Vendetta?
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Mr. Evol, 28 Mar 2006 @ 9:17am

Re: Business model
I'll still go out and see a movie if it looks good, or I'll buy a movie if it was good, but if a movie gets bad reviews, or I saw it and it was just ok, I'll download it. Thats the most ridicilous thing I have heard... Thats like saying you would go into a restaurant, order a steak and only pay for it if you enjoyed it. If you watch it pay for it. If you dont want to pay for it, dont watch it... its as simple as that.
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lar3ry, 28 Mar 2006 @ 9:24am

Interesting point
WTF is up nowadays with all this "entitlement" bullcrap anyways? Everyone's "entitled" to something anymore. It's pathetic.

That's the whole point.

The record industry think that they are entitled to continue to screw the public, and up until their dying breath, they will continue to press lawsuit after lawsuit, pay for stupid legislation to force people to continue to purchase their buggy whips, and keep screaming, "It's for the artists! Really!"

These are the same people that screw over the artists, by the way, with their personal contracts that are just short of legalized slavery.

Face it... it's not for the artists. It's for those guys in business suits, and the guys carrying the briefcases full of warrants and affidavits, and for every other low-life that is associated with the whole insipid industry.

99.9% of the artists don't give a toss about the money. They make music for the love of making music. If they need money, they'll tour, do concerts, and sell T-shirts. They adore their fans, and the fans adore them. What else is there?

What about those other 0.1% of the artists? Those are the ones who do nothing anymore except cash their checks to pay for their cocaine habits. They got rich from making music. Now they sit back and vegetate.

Not everybody falls into these two categories, and there are exceptions all around. There may be one record industry exec that is higher than pond scum, but I haven't met that person yet.
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MyName-MyLife, 28 Mar 2006 @ 9:32am

Re: Re: They do have a small point
One of the best comments I've read in a long, long time. Right on!
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Phyltre, 28 Mar 2006 @ 9:33am

Re: Re: Business model
Not that simple.

If I was given a steak in a steak restaurant that was 25% meat and 75% fat, I WOULD NOT PAY for it. Period. Their problem, not mine.

And look, it's become the same way with CDs!
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Roger Rabbbit, 28 Mar 2006 @ 9:51am

Hmmm
True Phyltre, it's not that simple at all. This was a great and interesting article. Thanks :) --- http://www.wirah.com
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Iostream, 28 Mar 2006 @ 10:12am

Well Played
I think what the MPAA has been trying to do is pretty much based on a fear tactic only. They seem to be pumping out content that torrent sites are only in exhistence for the sole purpose of pirated material and bootlegging digital content. This is entirely not the case. Some people may utilize these sites for those actions but many like myself, use them for legitimate purposes.

I don't know. I just think that the MPAA and the RIAA have gone way too far outside of their own allowances on way too many occasions to even be trusted and/or respected anymore. I mean, when companies and bands begin pulling away from these types of "protective alliances"(as I call them), wouldn't that be some cause of concern?
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 10:40am

Re: They do have a small point
Its time to rethink your business model. There is no stopping file sharing. Accept it. Find new ways to make money.

There has been a paradigm shift. Adapt or die.
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InvisiBill, 28 Mar 2006 @ 10:51am

Re: bad news for users
although this will help allow torrentspy to stay afloat, if torrentspy gets its way, the industry will have no choice but to go after users which is a bit more frightening than having to find another site for my torrents

Yeah, why go after the people actually pirating the stuff, rather than some site which may, through an automated process, contain links to metadata of the pirated material?

Believe it or not, there are valid uses of BitTorrent which don't involve even the possibility of copyright infringement (regardless of whether or not you think metadata or a clump of bits is actually protected by copyright laws). I'd much rather get rid of all the pirates who destroy BitTorrent's reputation and turn off legitimate would-be users of the technology.

Ignoring the technicalities of copyright law (because they're not relevant to this statement), what these pirates are doing is stealing. All these people claim that music/movies/etc. all suck now, which is why people aren't buying them. However, if you download them instead, you obviously do want them, you're just not willing to pay the asking price. I'd gladly pay $20 for a Porsche, but $120k is just crazy, so I'll just take one, until they "update their business model".

I agree that the ??IA do need to get a clue. They are putting out a lot of crap, and using outdated ideas in their business. For the most part, I don't buy movies or music because of this. However, I don't download them either. I don't claim that it's all worthless crap, then proceed to take it. I do realize that piracy isn't the same as physical theft (making a copy of some data doesn't cause the seller to lose out on something they can sell, like stealing a Porsche would), but surely you can see that for many of these people, calling stuff worthless is just an attempt to justify taking something they haven't paid for.

If you really think it's crap, you wouldn't download it either. Even though they're not getting money from pirates, that still tells them that people want that. They would much rather get your money, but you're still encouraging them to make crap. If you really wanted to fix the situation, you wouldn't download the crap - you'd let the bad bands die. You wouldn't pirate to "check it out" - you'd let the bands who don't let you sample them first die off. For a boycott to be successful, you really have to not support them.
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GatorGuy, 28 Mar 2006 @ 11:03am

parallels with season 7 south park episode concern
I couldn't help but laugh when I read this article and INSTANTLY thought of the south park episode I believe in Season 7 where Cartman challenges Kyle to make an album go "platinum" (sell 1 million copies) first. Cartman realizes he can easily go platinum first, if he exploits christianity and therefore creates a Christian Rock Band, pulling lyrics from pre-existing songs and distorting it. The other boys wish to get inspiration for their band, and proceed to download music on their computer, where almost instantly the FBI shows up and arrests them. What follows is a hilarious portrayal of celebrities' lifestyles and how music downloading will "impact" (I use the word loosely here) their already ridiculous luxury. The boys go on strike, refusing to perform with their band until music downloading stops.

In the end, the striking doesn't work. Kyle inevitably makes the realization that instead of refusing to play music because of 'illegal' downloading, that performer's and artists should simply be stoked and estatic about how many people are listening to their work. Further, if the work is actually good, people will continue to buy tickets to concerts and merchandise to support the artist.

I simply couldn't agree more. The music industry is all about money these days. They should simply be thrilled about how successful their labels are instead of head-hunting their listeners. All that money spent, should be used to innovate: to find other means to provide affordable digital content to consumers instead of alienating them.

As funny as the South Park episode was, it also hit the proverbial "nail on the head" with many of the issues it raised.

RIAA / MPAA . Time to rethink your business model. Time to stop being greedy.

Oh and go and watch that episode: it's sure to raise some laughs. : )
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 11:14am

Re: parallels with season 7 south park episode con
Any business model that isnt "greed" aka "profit" driven, isnt a business model. The problem with the RIAA isnt that they are "greedy", it's their inability to keep pace with technology and leverage technology to increase their bottom line.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Mar 2006 @ 11:29am

Re: Title Spelling?
you misspelled mispelled
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Esantipapa, 28 Mar 2006 @ 11:33am

Re: Re: bad news for users
InvisiBill - There is a significant flaw with everything you stated. You're worried about people who use torrents legitimately, when in actuality, that group is a minority of the users. Leave people alone, and leave torrents alone, its not their fault you don't know the ??AA is way too archaic for its time. The music/film industry is changing, and the only person who caught on was Steve Jobs.

...and if you think a Porsche is crap, you don't deserve to download it :-)

I never thought I'd see the day that downloading replicated information that is widely available could become a crime (if the MPAA had its way, punishable by death). I mean what if I actually want to let some of my friends borrow a movie? is that a crime? tough shiot I say to the music/film industry, time to actually earn your pay, punks.
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Random Observer, 28 Mar 2006 @ 1:45pm

Is is just me...
or is this forum software really good at needlessly duplicating posts?
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Stevenb, 28 Mar 2006 @ 2:26pm

Re: Safe downloading
Well eventually the RIAA and MPAA will start suing these secure browsing services.. then we'll see how secure they really are. :(
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stevekasian, 28 Mar 2006 @ 5:23pm

Re: Interesting point
"...There may be one record industry exec that is higher than pond scum, but I haven't met that person yet."

I have - his name is Mike Varney, and he owns Shrapnel Records. Best damn human being IN the business, bar none!

'Still a bit brainwashed by what his "association" (RIAA) force-feeds all their "members", but he'll coming around sooner or later; He's a smart guy. :-)

SK
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Kirk Henry, 28 Mar 2006 @ 6:08pm

TorrentSpy
Why doesent the MPAA try and take down google just as well for for all there torrents if there so fucking worried about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Mar 2006 @ 2:07am

Re: Spay MPAA
isnt this what they have just done to themselves?and
now they run around in circles bleeding out as they run.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Mar 2006 @ 2:22am

Re: Re: Interesting point
Im an riaa member oviously not in lock step.
ive released cds for years at $9.99, up to 14 songs, and Up to 26 songs at$ 12.99 max suggested retail for twofers . All these many years We have never encountered
a significant piracy problem.at these prices most prefer the real thing Rock n roll!
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Pirate#1976, 29 Mar 2006 @ 5:49am

Re: Re: Business model
I am sorry, but if I go into a resteraunt, order a steak, and it does NOT meet my satisfaction, I would call over a manager and express my disgust, and would NOT be expected to pay for lousy service.

If a plumber comes to your house to fix a leak, only to have the leak reappear in a few hours or a few days, are you expected to still pay for this service the plumber provided ? No, in the end you have the right to bring them to civil court and sue them for poor quality.

Therefore, any and all bad service is NOT expected to be paid for.

Copyright Law also says that bars are NOT allowed to broadcast sporting events, if such a broadcast is used as a way to entice customers, yet every bar I see ADVERTISES that they will be hosting an event, and yet noone steps up to stop them.

I agree with the artist who posted previously as well, about why should a consumer pay for 15 shit songs when only 2 might be considered "good" ?

I am also one of those people who when told they CAN NOT do something, will do it to prove that I CAN do it...

The more you push, the more I want to push back...

You want consumers to pay for products or services ? Provide something WORTH paying for... and you would be suprised at how many people would pay for soemthing, simply to ensure that they continue to produce/provide a good service/product
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downloader, 29 Mar 2006 @ 7:20am

I think the "radio" business model would work well.

All radio stations pay royalties to ASCAP or BMI, based on the number of plays each song gets. These organizations distribute the royalties to member studios. The radio stations take the money they get from advertisers to pay expenses, royalties, and profit.

Torrent trackers could take the money they get from advertisers to pay their expenses and profit, plus a royalty distribution fee based on the number of downloads.

This would require a Torrent tracker to enforce exclusive use of their site to download the torrent. TorrentSpy would only be able to provide a link to the specified torrents download page, rather than the torrent itself.

If each member of a torrent swarm had visited the original tracker's site, then high download numbers would be equal to high numbers of site visitors who saw the advertisements there.

The royalty fees radio stations pay are pretty low, I'm fairly sure this would work well for tracker sites as well.

Then they just sell us some high quality cd's/dvd's. Nice boxed sets with lots of extras. How many of us are interested in actually downloading more than a stripped/compressed version of a movie? I know I've bought a few nice boxed/special editions of movies I enjoyed after downloading. Just like many folks will buy a song or cd after hearing it on the radio for free. I thought Half Life 2 was so awesome after playing it all the way through, that I went and bought a copy I haven't even opened yet. It was that good!
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ibezhyn, 29 Mar 2006 @ 7:53am

Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha.
CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST. CANADA is the BEST.
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jasper, 29 Mar 2006 @ 9:57am

the truth of the matter is that the labels are fighting torrent technology because they don't want the people to listen to music that the labels don't own.

they can't make money off your music interest if they don't own the artists you like.

that's why i say fuck the labels!

steal the cds, buy a concert ticket and t-shirt if you really want to support a band.
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Sean Mitchell, 29 Mar 2006 @ 11:28am

torrentspy will feel it
all those that steal and rob peoples creations (music, Videos) will catch a fire. I am the copyright owner to music downloaded to this site. It sucks knowing your hard worked product is being given away for free when that is the only way I make money; it hurts me to my core.
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Sean Mitchell, 29 Mar 2006 @ 11:34am

Re: Safe downloading
thats thivery- I make my living off my music and people are stealing it. Imagine yourself in my place.
Its a painfull experience- im not 50 cent - I barely have enough $ to stay afloat in the industry. That shit is robbery
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Kyla, 29 Mar 2006 @ 11:34am

Re: Re: Re: Business model
Although I agree with most of what you said, I would like to point out a factual error. Restaurants and bars that brodcast television or music must carry a liscense to do so. I'm not sure how much this is enforced everywhere, but where I live (Boston), it is a big deal. I once worked at a bar where the television could only be played if muted, due to a broadcast liscensing issue.
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Chrisu, 29 Mar 2006 @ 1:26pm

Make me want to buy it
If they really do want to get back people to start buying the stuff, then they really have to make people want to buy it. DVD extra's dont appeal to me, why not include some other things so that im not just buying a film or cd i'll watch/listen to every once in the while.
I am a person who enjoys having a shelf in my room filled end to end with dvd's . It shows who i am if anyone visits and says ooh, i like that film. However i hate the prospect of paying like £19 for a dvd, the ones i own are like £3-5 i buy out of bargain bins (shawshank redemption - £3.99) Now thats money i dont mind parting with.
Not to mention there's so many middle men involved in the industry the final price is way to high to the production cost.
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KingAnon, 29 Mar 2006 @ 7:27pm

Just Got Jacked...
@ Sean Mitchell

Your Music Sucks, That's Why You "barely have enough $ to stay afloat in the industry"... Stop Trying To Blame Music Downloaders, It's Such a Pathetic Excuse... Blame Yourself, i'm tired Of These Cry baby Artist, Even If No One Was Downloaded Music, Guess what..... You'd Still be "barely have enough $ to stay afloat in the industry" Because Your Music sucks..... You Really Are Pathetic.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Mar 2006 @ 7:31pm

what do do when torrents are shut down
ware do we go when we can not find any more music games videos movies applications or porn I gotta have my fuckin porn :)

is there any ideas on what we can start as far as another site to get music games movies videos and porn and how can we work around the laws it seems like we are getting stomped on by everyone.

I had one idea lets say if someone had stuff on there computer why cant we just make some programs that can access there computer and get anything we want without using a file sharing program or torrent. there is somthing like that but not the greatest but is availible
through windows you can share files someone has what your looking for they post it or you can basicly have a home to home computer network. I buy somthing then I put it on my computer then I say I can give it to you through your IP address. Just basicly searching peoples computers and ip adressess if they allow it if you could do that then it goes down to a privacy act does the government have a right to invade peoples computers. no torrents or file sharing programs just peoples harddrives

somthin to that exstent dont know how to exsplain it
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Geo, 30 Mar 2006 @ 12:11am

Meh...
My advice to the MPAA, S-T-F-U, seriously, if you think your losing money think again, no one buys the junk that downloads it due to you have over-priced and inflated everything to death, that simple. Learn2AcceptFileSharingKthx. I may download stuff occasionaly, and if its good I DO buy it. Seriously,I vote a People Versus the MPAA case.

FYI, everytime a torrent site dies, 10 more spawn.
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jonathan21, 30 Mar 2006 @ 3:03am

torrentspy fights back
good for u standing up for ur selves bout time someone did
lets hope more people do the same.
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Joey Ignorant, 30 Mar 2006 @ 4:05am

MPAA can suck my balls
the mpaa can go ahead track me all they want i live in canada they cant touch me.
the canadian government has laws against what the mpaa is doing.
if anything if file sharing were to become illegal in canada they would have to file criminal charges and would not be able to sue and make money off the file sharing sites. the canadian government has an artist compensation program which incurs a surcharge on every mp3 player and cd sold in canada that replaces the money lost by file sharing which is a great idea and should be started in the US.
and in places like china cds are considered optional promotional items so file sharing is not only legal but encouraged as it actually saves the chinese record companies money these are all business models the us should consider cds dont even bring that much money the money mostly comes from merchandising and ticketsales for concerts which is why the chinese model works so well so mpaa listen to a good piece of advice and stop the madness filesharing is a good thing and should be embraced not fought
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everville, 30 Mar 2006 @ 4:25am

my 50 cent worth
i cant talk for all downloaders but im 32 now with a family and during my teens and all my 20s when i had a disposable income my money and it was quite a lot went on buying vinyl tapes cds concerts t-shirts. IVE PAID MY DUES, i still love music i just cant afford it anymore. so if i D/L an album there isnt a lost sale because i couldnt afford it in the first place. im sure there are lots in the same situation as me
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Quinn, 30 Mar 2006 @ 8:32am

Your Rights as a company...
Search engines for torrents are not bad.. if so then why doesnt the MPAA go towards webcrawler and google for finding torrents.. just type in torrent on the search field and you get pretty close to the same result as you would on a site dedicated to torrents.
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1man_army, 30 Mar 2006 @ 8:37am

MPAA
theyre doing what they do best. creating lawsuits.

geez, are they only suing these people just to make a profit or to stop them? i guess we will never know until everyone around the globe is as broke as shit.

what bites me though is how people are being caught coying stuff when there are millions of hackers out there who crack hundreds of pcs, but never get caught. i mean, WTF EH?!?!
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Ed, 30 Mar 2006 @ 11:39am

Am I the only one...
Who thinks that the entertainment industry is bloated with untalented people who got rich by doing f-all? Yes there are some real artists who will actually be damaged by this, but if they are genuinely good then people will buy from them to give them money. There is just too much garbage and money in that industry. Its like a drug culture - full of shallow, moralless sh*ts.

If they want a solution they should try this; insert advertising into their movies? collect a revenue each time it is downloaded?
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illenium, 30 Mar 2006 @ 1:36pm

Fight back!
Its about time that more sites started doing this. Such a shame to see most site admins cower in fear when a bunch of losers like the MPAA and RIAA try to abuse power they never had. But really, why are they putting this much effort into stopping it. Hell 90% of the movies released in the past few years have sucked ass anyway. They should be happy people are willing to waste the time to download them. I suggest the MPAA get their senile heads out of their geriatric asses and quit burning money on chasing internet pirates (who theyll never catch) and spend it on actually releasing some movies that are worth watching.
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theoriginaldave, 30 Mar 2006 @ 2:07pm

blah blah blah
QUOTE - "I thought Half Life 2 was so awesome after playing it all the way through, that I went and bought a copy I haven't even opened yet. It was that good!"

What a nonce, thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard!!! Why would you buy something you dont need? If you want to play a whole game then buy it, i mean if youve already played it whats the point!?

Music hasnt been the same since filesharing started. I have cackloads of wicked bands on my mp3 player, and i didnt pay a penny - its ace! before i got broadband i would buy like 1 cd a month, force myself to listen to some shit over and over again before chucking it in a cd rack to gather dust. Now i do the same but with data, and cos i can afford to filter out all the shite i actually get to listen to the music i like.

and an example to prove that we are all correct -

The Arctic Monkeys are an ace new band that just burst onto the scene in the UK, after promoting their music online. They reached so many more people as a consequence that the people who actually wanted the cd all went out and bought it. They are now going on tour and my local venue sold out in 2 MINUTES. Thats about 4000 fans at 20 quid a pop - 80 k's not bad for a nights work is it? Then there's MTV, radio royalties, merchandise etc etc...

FILESHARING IS NOT KILLING MUSIC, IT IS FILTERING OUT THE CRAP AND SUPPORTING NEW TALENT IN A HUGE WAY. Its the people who put out the crap that lose out, and what a damn shame that is, eh?
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Dj XTC, 30 Mar 2006 @ 4:00pm

Re: Safe downloading
Can you please give me the names of some of the free services for safe downloading? Respect
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SexieWASD, 30 Mar 2006 @ 6:29pm

how many people here have put a dollar or two into a tip jar ? I know from experience that if your music is good that you can make $500+ a day with just an acoustic and an open guitar case. hell 500 a day isnt rockstar life but i think it make for a damn fun day at the local pornshop. I don't sell any records (acutally i give them away) and yet people give me their hard earned money, what ever they think it's worth, not what i want for it. (in responce to theoriginaldave) people GIVE ME MONEY, they don't even expect anything in return. also i bought HL2 with the source premier pack after i played the entire game. not so that i could say i own it but for the extra content that is availible when you own a copy, such as access to the Hammer editor and dedicated servers also not to mention the development community.
imagine if when you bought a cd you also got a copy of a program like dripdrape or cooledit pro and instructions on how to diasemble and make something new out of the crap you just paid for.... by the way HL2 wasn't that great
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sexieWASD, 30 Mar 2006 @ 6:37pm

ohh yeah i forgot steam rocks support it because you get more for your money instead of wallmart getting more of your money. itunes blows tho just as hard as napsters new buisness model because your getting the same crap and just paying less money to the people who deserve it. I'll pay $20 for a good cd anyday as long as i'm paying the artist $20 for his or her cd.
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CyberTrooper, 30 Mar 2006 @ 6:37pm

YAY
LONG LIVE TORRENTS~!!!!

Fight Back!!!
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TheLaw, 30 Mar 2006 @ 9:41pm

I think that unfortunately in the case of torrentspy the MPAA might have a point.

The test applied by the court was rather well stated at the top of this page, the service provider shouldn't be taking affirmative steps.

In the case of Torrent Spy it is highly likely that the MPAA will argue that the sorting of torrents into TV episodes etc, but especially CAM's was encouraging something that they clearly had to know would be illegal.

So Torrent Spy will probably go down. However, this will not stop torrents in general, the secret is I think to make sure that the legitimate uses of torrents do not get sidelined. So when every you have a freeware piece of software post it to a torrents site

cheers

Thelaw
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Jason King, 31 Mar 2006 @ 5:26am

Torrentspy
Lets be honest the only reason that people down load torrents is that they don't want to pay the high prices for goods enforced by the entertainment industry. I like most would ratrher download a tv show,movie or game over a couple of days then fork out 30-40 dollars for a game etc. If the entertainment industry where to offer goods at a reasonable price then they might sell more and actually encourage people to own an original product rather than a copy. Torrents will carry on regadless of courts or industry pressure as people wont stand to be ripped of. I hope torrenspy win there action. And if the industry starts to go after individuals rather than search engines it would just show how much money they have to waste rather than tackle the real issue of product pricing.
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Ogremeister, 31 Mar 2006 @ 8:23am

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happydude, 31 Mar 2006 @ 1:27pm

well i play in a band and we have recorded an album independently and I myself uploaded the content to various torrent sites, p2p services because I know its hard for a new artist to emerge into the music scene. I know that these services will get our music out there and ultimately create a huge fanbase for us, and guess what it has. When we started not that many people went to our shows or bought a cd or anything, once I exposed through these services and provided our myspace info our shows went from having 20 people to having at least 200. I thank God for this technology and what its capable of doing. Im glad my band is doing this independently because we see all profits that allows us to purchase new gear, to order more cds, to make t shirts and posters for our fans. These services are a free promotional tool for us and I bet many independent artists.
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Fyrefli, 31 Mar 2006 @ 2:14pm

Re: They do have a small point
And? i go to art school; i'm surrounded by directors, cinematographers, and other film folks. Our school is very well-known for its Motion Pictures and Television department.
Still, even most of the MPT students agree that this amounts to collateral damage; if the movie industry has to suffer for the good of its own future, so that it can transfer over to a more current medium, then so be it. In the meantime, i can use BitTorrent to download fan-subtitled rips of obscure Japanese animation, which is about all i use it for anyhow.
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Fyrefli, 31 Mar 2006 @ 2:25pm

The Real Point: Exploration, Education, Fascinatio
With BitTorrent, i can get music by artists out of Japan. i can get music by noise musicians, i can get early blues. i can get German noir silent films.

These are not things i am able to get in my area. What it amounts to, is a wonderful extension of the informational anarchism of the Internet: see, read or hear anything. ANYthing.

THAT is power to the people.
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S34N, 31 Mar 2006 @ 4:02pm

Stand up to these pathetic mind control freaks! Since when were they or anyone in charge of what us the people want to share or give? Fuck them! and if you cant fuck them,fucking blow the cunts up!Good for nothing paedophiles covering their own tracks and trying to blame innocent people out here who want to share,how long is it going to be until they do start charging us for the words we speak and the air we breathe? Fuckem frankly
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2006 @ 4:50pm

Re: Æ?0r(3 Æ?33Ã? 7h1$
you spelled bullshitter wrong. loser
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2006 @ 6:13pm

I've got a massive DVD collection yet if i download a movie i'm a criminal.

Yet another man can charge people money to see Big Mommas House 2 and he's done nothig wrong?

Something is very very wrong with the world
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Antrax`, 1 Apr 2006 @ 2:48am

Pirate files?
Torrentspy offers legal software/freeware! Opera,linux and a lot of more progs are put on BT becouse so the company has smaller problems with their bandwith/servers! mpaa don't know that or the DON't WAN IT TO KNOW!
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Me and he, 1 Apr 2006 @ 6:45am

Re: MPAA Can't Reinterpret The Supreme Court
I agree...I have spent a LOT of money on my favorite artist...Ayumi Hamasaki. She from Japan and if one American artist had 1/16 the talent she has maybe the American record industry would not totally suck. lets face it whats American Idol? The lazy ass way for the recored industy to suck more money out of suckers...good thing Im not one. Instead of going after downloader make something that does not totally suck. Then maybe I would not have to go out of country to get good music......
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CreepinJesus, 1 Apr 2006 @ 8:02am

Re: Title Spelling?
It's "misspelt" you idiot, not 'mispelled'.
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Sin_ikol, 1 Apr 2006 @ 11:12am

Come to Canada!
Anyone afraid of the MPAA moving against users instead of the search engines should move to Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada has declared that file sharing is not illegal. Until the Government of Canada creates a law saying otherwise, its all fair game. There was such legislation on the books last year, but that disappeared due to a no-confidence vote in the House. It'll be another while before that arguement is brought back up....
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IronRoses, 1 Apr 2006 @ 1:00pm

Safe Here To!!!
I'm in the u.k and as far as I know, i'm not affected by this crap.

The only reason I download is purely to smaple this stuff.
I use to buy games and movies all the time, then I thought "fucksake, i actually buy this crap" so, I started downloading it first trying it out, man, the amount of dosh i have saved.

It's like blockbuster for instant, you'd rent a dvd out, try it and if it is good, you buy the real-deal, so to speak..

I also think, whatever they come up with, there will always have pirates, I mean before bit torrent, there was kazaa and irc for christ sakes. Also they must be loosing so much cash on these clueless idiots they call lawyers.

Iv'e said my piece - download, try and buy if good!!
I don't see I'm breaking the law, I just like to try these things firstly before wasteing my hard earned cash, I personally see nothing wrong with it at all.....
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Progg, 1 Apr 2006 @ 2:58pm

....
the mpaa and riaa are both in the public hands, if the public decide "fu bitch plz" then organisations like that will just rot, and i hope that happens.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Apr 2006 @ 4:16pm

Re: bad news for users
If your smart about how you use your torrentsuff, they will never go after a user at his/her home. And if they do, simply say that you have proprietary software on your computer, and that they should come back after you remove it. thats a guarenteed way to postpone a search of your computer.
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Nigger Cunt, 1 Apr 2006 @ 6:24pm

Lets be honest here. George W. Bush has this country so fucked up that we can't afford to go out to the movies anymore. Hell it hard enough to get buy. When your having to pay out 50 dollars a week on gas. Everyone hurting so the mpaa can go fuck a rhinocerious as far as I am concerned.
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SmotPoker, 2 Apr 2006 @ 1:42pm

laff
What I find hilarious is that the MPAA, RIAA, etc all complain about how it's taking money away from the so-called artists... Yet, they all somehow make more money from one CD deal than I'll ever see in my life. Basically it's a bunch of little kiddies screaming, "johnny copied my answers Mr. Supreme Court Justice!" It's obviously not hurting them that much if they can maintain their millions. Anyway, who was it that said being an actor or musician is supposed to mean big bucks to begin with? If you love your work, then you'll learn to love only having 50k a year like the rest of us. Jeez, it's just bitch bitch bitch over the most unimportant bull when you could be spending all that time and money finding a cure for some disease. No no no, that's not right, we need to make sure our pockets are full, no time to waste on things that actually matter.
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nemo-noname, 3 Apr 2006 @ 4:40am

Re: Re: They do have a small point
Mate, you are so spot on! everybody seems to think the world OWES them everything. I kinda see myself as a web squirrel! I forage and store for me and me alone, I do not sell on the things i D/L I keep em for me and mine to watch or listen to. If these big bastards sat up up in their corporate ivory towers were able to remember what life was like without the fuckin huge great pot of money sat underneath their greedy asses, then things might be different. The copyrighted material they sell is grossly overpriced. If it was realistically priced then piracy WOULD SIMPLY NOT EXIST! It is so simple it is fuckin scary, instead of throwing their money and legal weight around they should drop the price and remove the need for Mr Average to risk his liberty trawling the net for the things he likes!!! 'scuse the swearing folks but i is just a little cheesed off wi all 'o this nonsense.
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Strummm, 3 Apr 2006 @ 8:26pm

Some kind of monster
Well lets start with the dumbass that got this whole thing in motion. Lars Ulrich, who pretty much took out Napster single handedly, bitching and moaning about how much money he was losing because we're downloading his music for free. If you have never seen their movie Some Kind Of Monster and want to get really PISSED off at this SOB watch it. Pay close attention to the amount of money he gets after taking his paintings out of his multi-million dollar home. I may be wrong but I believe 1 painting brings over 10 MILLION dollars! WTF is he talking about losing money from D/Lr's! If they weren't releasing shitty fucking music ie: Load, Reload, St. Anger, Metallica wouldn't be losing money. Their last 3 albums only had 1 good song on each album but they want me to pay for the whole fucking thing. This is about so much more than that though these orginzations are trying to take away OUR RIGHT to fair use. If I buy a CD or DVD I have every right to make THOUSANDS of copies, if needed, for my own personal use but to find software to copy DVD's is getting harder and harder to come buy because these ASSHOLES are shutting these companies down for fear that the users of this software will use it ILLEGALLY. 321 Studios had a simply and easy program that circumvented the copyright protections that the industry imbedded on their DVD's but they were shut down because the MPAA and RIAA said that the software violated the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1994) and now we are fighting a losing battle to get our fair use back and everyone thought that George W. had this country all fucked up when Ol Slick Willy himself signed that into law. I can agree with Lars on 1 issue and 1 issue only he is the most hated man in the music industry and I would love to see this motherfucker go bankrupt and have to flip burgers at McDonald's for the rest of his natural life. DOWN WITH MPAA RIAA AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE DMCA!!!
I hope like hell that TorrentSpy can win this battle for all of us!!!!
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Fresh, 4 Apr 2006 @ 7:00am

didnt thepiratebay.org almost get done for copyright law vilation and then some one realised that they weren't breaking any laws due to the fact the server is in sweden or somthing?
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steve kasian, 4 Apr 2006 @ 11:03pm

Re: Nigger Cunt Post
You are obviously nothing more than a worthless piece of shit looser, having absolutely nothing worth contributing, neither to this debate nor to society in general. And as such, you should seriously consider killing yourself. :-)

Buh bye...
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Lug11, 9 Apr 2006 @ 12:26am

Re: Re: bad news for users
While I get your point that you disagree with people downloading and not paying.
I have a point of my own of how I came to one of the people you dislaike and disagree with so much. I used to be a very legal downloder paying for everything I did download that is until my computer crashed and had to have it's hardrive replaced and although I still had my passwords for my accounts and the back up license,s guess what these completely legal sites refused to recognise I had purchased any of these things so all the games and music that I had downloaded was lost and I was told the only way these sites would give them back to me is if I payed for all of them again. So I decided that since they didn't keep to their agreements I would stop keeping with them and got all of my music and games back via bt and I am now quite happy. Even when these industries offer you a legal way to download and you follow all the advice and rules they give if anything happens all the advice they gave you about it being easy to recover things goes out the window and they s***w you over and make you pay through the nose for things again. It's o.k to have all these fine ideals when you have the cash but let's face it not all of us have the money to keep them and sd far as the music industrys concerned they have none anyway.
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Lug11, 9 Apr 2006 @ 12:29am

Re: Re: bad news for users
While I get your point that you disagree with people downloading and not paying.
I have a point of my own of how I came to one of the people you dislaike and disagree with so much. I used to be a very legal downloder paying for everything I did download that is until my computer crashed and had to have it's hardrive replaced and although I still had my passwords for my accounts and the back up license,s guess what these completely legal sites refused to recognise I had purchased any of these things so all the games and music that I had downloaded was lost and I was told the only way these sites would give them back to me is if I payed for all of them again. So I decided that since they didn't keep to their agreements I would stop keeping with them and got all of my music and games back via bt and I am now quite happy. Even when these industries offer you a legal way to download and you follow all the advice and rules they give if anything happens all the advice they gave you about it being easy to recover things goes out the window and they s***w you over and make you pay through the nose for things again. It's o.k to have all these fine ideals when you have the cash but let's face it not all of us have the money to keep them and sd far as the music industrys concerned they have none anyway.
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stevekasian, 9 Apr 2006 @ 7:46pm

Lug11...
What'd he just say???
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Lug11, 10 Apr 2006 @ 12:20pm

Re: Lug11...
stevekaisian if you read the report re bad news for users you would know exactly what I was saying I am dyslexic not stupid
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stevekasian, 19 Apr 2006 @ 4:56am

Re: Re: Lug11...
Didn't mean to offend. I didn't really see much in the way of dyslexia in your text, but rather a serious lack of punctuation... making it difficult to interpret as anything other than groups of run-on sentences and such.

Sorry,
SK
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Simon, 18 May 2006 @ 12:13am

People act as though copyright law is divine writ. Well, it’s not. As a legal idea, copyright is only just over a century old – it’s still on probation. Like any law, it can and will fall by the wayside if it does not benefit society in some way. Patents are temporary monopolies granted to encourage technological innovation – something that benefits society. What exactly does copyright law encourage? Businesses models based on pouring ridiculous sums of money into the hands of a small number of so-called artists, and screwing everybody else? The morally corrosive cult of celebrity? The mass exploitation of art for profit that is destroying genuine culture? The environmental train wreck that is merchandising? Why is any of this worth protection? The fact that an entire industry is built on copyright is not a sufficient defence.

Art isn’t done for money – it’s done for the love of art. Otherwise, it’s not art at all.
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justas, 23 May 2006 @ 7:08pm

get free xbox
get a free Xbox. This won't cost you anything but it will involve a bit of farting around (2 forms to fill). Console Grab are giving away several types of console. I chose the 360 Deluxe but you can choose any from the 8 consoles on the page.all you need just complete the offer and get more as you can refferals.just simply click on my link fill the form, complete the offer i chosed screenselect offer because its a free trial. They send you 6 free DVD's for a 30 day trial with an envelope to send them back if you dont want them. click the link or do copy and paste to your browser http://www.consolegrab.co.uk/?r=68970 and you will get the free xbox cost about 400 pounds for free.i have seen it on bbc and i have got one not xbox but psp.
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crystal_tech, 5 Aug 2006 @ 3:09am

Stop
ok everyone, and me, quit your bitchin and get up your lazy ass and go change the god damn world. piss on everything and backup what you say. don't type it in blogs. write your congress man... rock your vote... GET OFF THE FUCKING COMPUTER AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE STATE OF LIVING YOU ARE IN!!!! I'm sick and tired of people saying that they are boycotting the radio and cds and other bullshit. guess what its not working... we need to remove power from RIAA and MPAA that i will agree on.. but instead of boycotting someone should create a new platform and get labels and defiy RIAA and MPAA. Hell i don't know... With the net we are our own world and we should be able to be free to do as we wish.. (with worldwide laws to make everyone equal and have full rights) i know this rant is off but i'm typing it at 5 in the morn without sleep in like 36 hours. so to sum it up.... Off ass...Write big wigs....do something....THINK FOR ONCE...and piss on all your kill steal in an mmo you play. Fuck you later crystal_tech
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steak at stake, 5 Aug 2006 @ 8:25am

Re: Re: Business model
I love to disagree with you here, but I have ALWAYS gone to a rest. and ordered steak, and if I don't like it, I will send it back, and if it comes out like crap again, I will send that one back, etc, until I either get a steak that I like, or the rest. get's p.o.ed with me and gives me my meal free. The same with music, dl till you find something you like, something that has atleast 50% good shit on it, then buy..otherwise, archive the bitch and wait for it to either grow on me like a fungus or delete the crap that it is.
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Kman, 6 Sep 2006 @ 7:06pm

Yeah !
Im liking most of this , alot of generaliastions and what if it was you. My view.( a bit theological sorry)

In general capatalism is reaching a new dawn or possibly its tipping point. due to the catch 22 of freedom of information in the information age. We are all agreed that things have gotten way too pricy , and this has a direct correlation to corporate ideals and misuse of the capatalist model for nothing more than greed. Which as you all know is evil but we accept greed in business and tolerate it strangley as if we cannot do anything to stop it.
if you have a cash cow do you want to see it die? No you will endevour to keep it functional for as long as you can , its basic instinct for survival the cow represents life in capitalism. without the cow there is financial DEATH !!! oooh noo
We all know that its a cycle things grow they mature they get complicated then they die. In busiiness medicine and poison is generally the LAW.
Remember above all you are humans not cash cows , have a sense of community.
Remember" good" not "goods" makes the world go round.
Oh yeah and i do D/L heaps a shiet via BT, cause the powers that be have made me/my Generation poor through their greed and brainwashing now i have nothing but my dsl and my faith in good human beings.
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J, 22 Nov 2006 @ 4:19pm

The Entertainment Industry
The real problem with the way things are going is that our country's investment into the entertainment industry is almost embarassing. When you look at the actors that makes millions of dollars just for making one movie. This industry has thrived on charging more than they should for far too long. Look in the days of old. When actors would do what they did out of passion. Those were the greats, and not very many of them had a lot of money to show for it. All these law suits are is just a desperate attempt to hold onto what they all know to be undeserved.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Dec 2006 @ 6:15am

DRM Hell
So here we are, trying to eke out an honest entertainment on a student's allowance by buying from legitimate online sites like Napster and Virgin and MSN Music.

Then I try to put it on my player, and it can't. There's a problem with their license server, and I'm screwed. My computer crashes, WMP kills my licenses (the ones it supposedly backed up) and I'm left with a hard-drive munching, GB-eating tossload of files that don't do ****.

The reason why piracy is flourishing is simple - if you can just kill off your paying customers like *that* - they're not going to STAY paying customers for very long. A 30-second sample of a 5/8/10-minute track makes me feel like I'm jumping off a cliff knowing the ocean's wet.

So I can either download only the songs that I like only to find out that they won't play on my iPod, or I can buy an entire album CD only to find that 7 out of the 10 tracks are pure and utter ear-ripping scat. I feel my pockets burning, and retreat once more to the comfortable oblivion of piracy.
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Prashant, 7 Jan 2007 @ 7:11pm

Re: Interesting point
You just keep on believing that while you steal from your favorite artists. And that 0.1% of artists that care about money are the ones that actually make good music.
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Leo King, 19 Jan 2007 @ 11:48pm

Re: They do have a small point
Well, the movie you made is different from the MPAA. You probably wouldn't have made it if you were not sure how many people would buy it, in general. If you got screwed over in your instance, maybe a bit of bad luck. Sh*t happens.

But to think definite that studios and MPAA lose money because people are not buying is purely a misconception -- people who dl movies or music without paying may NOT necessarily buy them if they couldn't dl. Maybe they won't be able to afford it, or as some put it, they won't pay for something that they are sure of the quality and worthiness.

The simple math is: The money they claim they are losing is not their ACTUAL loss. Say 100 people would pay for a movie if there's no such thing as dl, then maybe with dl there are now 95 people would pay, the other 5 and another 50 got to see the movie with dl.

The industry does need to change the way they distribute, like some comments have pointed. There lies prosperity for all.
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Harn Soper, 20 Jan 2007 @ 4:05pm

An alternative to movie piracy
How would you feel about receiving a pirated video if it had commercials embedded in it ... with the permission of the content owner as a way for the content owner to make money on what is their content? I'd be interested in your vote on this.
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00, 27 Jan 2007 @ 12:15pm

my twenty year prediction
A few points for my vision of twenty years from now.

dowloading will cause "perceived" profit loss. regardless of actual profit margins, this will push more "true" artists towards the independent side of things because the "all but slavery contract" perception does not exist in the Indy world. (Indy labels however are rumored to have worse contracts compared to their mainstream siblings.) this in turn will cause a new boom in the Indy labels and a deflation in the mainstream labels. basicly, we'll see the birth of a new set of mainstream labels that claim to be Indy labels.

Touring will become the focal point and the make or break test of all bands. can the band CONSISTENTLY attract fans over five or ten year stretches? The new labels will see this just as the current mainstream labels see it now. The only bands that can weather the storm will have to be mainstream. Yes, there will always be the small churnings of small bands that reach local or regional success and maybe even get the national 15 minutes of fame. then comes the real test. can they survive downloading after it helped bring them to success. also, can they tour and put on the breathtaking show necessary to captivate fans and grow a loyal following. only the rare few will have this ability. all others will fade around the five year mark, right when things have the best potential. Only the creme de la creme can survive the initial download frenzy of its first major national album and they can only do this by touring. needless to say, most bands will tour their asses off once they get that first major record because theyre betting on the second album as their cash cow. its the age old, "just one more" syndrome. the bands think, "if i can just make one more good album, we'll be rich."

its not the actual money lost that impacts the musicians stamina and longevity. its the perceived success of the music. this success will be managed by the record company. the company, trying to trim the margin of download loss, has no choice but to pursue legal action as a deterrent. this eats up the valuable capital that the label could spend finding new talent and delivering new music to our ears.

Now the labels find themselves trimming their bets on the bands themselves. they only pick the catchiest and most generally appealing bands out there. this delivers us back to the boring mainstream. every song sounds the same because the industry has its formula that they wont deviate from. they cant afford to deviate and therefore they can not afford to bring us new music because they are forced to take pre-emptive deterrence measures against downloaders.

the forecasted sales of a record are keenly calculated. if the sales fall below par, the band makes up for it by touring. if the sales are above par, the band makes excess money by touring. therefore, the function of the label acts on the bands in this manner.

twenty years from now, you will have a few new mainstream "Indy" labels.

Disgusting!
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abracadabrananda, 20 Feb 2007 @ 9:46am

"entertainment industry .. those two words put together dont make much sense , do they ?
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abracadabrananda, 20 Feb 2007 @ 10:07am

I'd really like it if there was a way to look into one of these contracts that music labels sign with upcoming and popular artistes.

that way we'd get to know the root of all the evil , and why its bugging these RIAA/MPAA ppl so much.
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Chris, 26 Feb 2007 @ 8:25pm

Re: Re: Business model
Actually, most "good" restaurants will refund you the price of a meal if the meal was not to your satisfaction, or at least try to make amends one way or another.
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abd alaziz, 5 Apr 2007 @ 11:12am

Re: Title Spelling?
that is frist time i will download torrentspy i shall comment after using it thx
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Tony, 10 Apr 2007 @ 8:06am

Re: Re: Title Spelling?
What dictionary do you use "Misspelt" ?? That isn't even a real word.
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Dj, 2 May 2011 @ 10:12am

Want to sue Bearshare
They have installed on my computer and cant get them off..wanna sue them. Who is handling the lawsuit?
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