Diebold Tries To Charge County For Showing Its Machines Have Serious Problems
from the them-again? dept
It was just two days ago that we wrote about the actions of Diebold and other electronic voting machine companies in Florida, where they're effectively boycotting an elections official who had the gall to have their machines tested in a way that shows they have serious security issues. That article noted that Diebold was negotiating to sell new machines to the county, but only on the condition that the elections officials not run more security tests -- other than "authorized" security tests (because, of course, those with malicious intent would only hack the machines in an "authorized" way). Turns out that Florida isn't the only county where Diebold is using such tactics... and it may have cost one election official in Utah his job. Phil Windley has the disturbing story, which has many similarities to the Florida story. The county ordered a bunch of Diebold machines and noticed a bunch of problems with the machines as they unpacked them. So, sensing a problem that should be investigated, the official had a couple machines security tested -- which turned up all sorts of additional security issues. Diebold's response? They told the county that the tests broke the warranty on the machines and demanded $40,000 to "recertify" the machines. This resulted in a meeting between the county official and state election officials -- and in the heat of the moment (with state officials apparently siding with Diebold), the county official announced his resignation. He now claims he didn't really want to resign, and is trying to retain his job -- but the state doesn't seem interested any more. In fact, it sounds like state officials are positively furious with the guy for daring to test the machines. Combined with the story in Florida and (of course) story after story after story of questions related to the security of Diebold's e-voting machines (and their responses to such questions), it certainly gives off the impression that Diebold is putting a lot of pressure on elections officials not to run security tests on their machines. Again, this makes no sense. A company that is building secure machines should be proud to have it tested -- and should be willing to respond to and fix any security tests that show problems with the machine. Bullying those who demonstrate the problems just seems to raise more questions.
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Wonder what will happen...
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I just hope they never come to Minnesota and if they do, I hope the people here fight them tooth and nail.
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we've been sold out
They have a journalistic duty to inform the public about this, to ride this story like they focused on Whitewater, Lewinski, and Iran/Contra. But they abdicate that duty. In the last decade they've gone from news agencies to being tiny facets in large corporate empires. They aren't in business to hurt the status quo. They are the status quo.
We need civil disobedience about this. The stealing of our democracy should have people on the streets in numbers like the recent imigration-law protests. Wake up you sheep!
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DIEBOLD rocks (not!)
Good, honest Guy. Opened his mouth about Diebold.
No longer employed there.
TIME TO START blogging this and passing it ALL OVER!
can you say technocrati and slashdot?
www.markbnj.blogspot.com
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a town using electronic voting machines to request an absentee
ballot and to encourage everybody else to do the same.
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More Information
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Ahhh
Are some flaws in security intentional? I mean, how is it possible to steal an election in Florida, if you cannot stuff the ballot box or throw out votes.
Why would anyone in power want a tamper-proof election system? I mean for the sake of America, you want to make sure that your hunting buddy is not part of the 1% not reelected because of some silly grass roots movement.
For now, you can live with the fact that the person you paid good money to elect might die in office. You know that it can be difficult to find someone with the same last name or a blood relative of the previous candidate on short notice, so you need to ensure that you can still steal the election.
In the past, you could always pull the old trick of having recently dead people vote or find some pollsters that still think Jim Crow laws are still in effect. However, those silly liberals are starting to monitor the polls and you know that if you have another stolen election, the UN will send the French in to monitor. Therefore, you figure that electronic voting could be your ticket to maintaining political hegemony. You just need to make sure that the company making the machines is playing for the home team, if you know what I mean.
Now, not only can you hack the voting machines electronically, you can accuse other candidates of stealing the election because you can prove the voting machines are insecure. You can demand new elections and take your sweet time creating some new propaganda and organizing bus trips from the old folk’s homes to the polls. All and all, it’s a win no matter how you look at it. God bless America!
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Mike has a Diebold Fetish
Locks only keep honest people honest.
Trying to make a 100% secure voting machine would be a joke and would not stop the more common kind of vote fraud -- a bunch of people feeding extra ballots into the machine after the polls close.
Is Diebold a model company? Who knows. But if you think they're so evil, then build your own damn machines and try to get them certified in over 800 counties. And, oh, be sure to let your "security" be defined by anyone with a blog.
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bigger pic.
maybe these e-voting machines were put it place to rig future elections
its time we look at the bigger picture
why would any credable company not want the product tested for performance and security
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Re: Mike has a Diebold Fetish
So, I shouldn't bother talking about it? We should all just be happy with what we have, rather than pushing to make it better? Yeah, that's a solution.
Is Diebold a model company? Who knows. But if you think they're so evil, then build your own damn machines and try to get them certified in over 800 counties. And, oh, be sure to let your "security" be defined by anyone with a blog.
So, by your logic, no one is allowed to ever point out problems, only to compete? Sorry, I'd rather not live in that society.
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More diebold Stories without substance
Once again, one-sided reporting and once again no facts to support that side. Just Great......
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hack it
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Get the word out.
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Get the word out.
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Liability?
It would seem it's not hard to do, (thinking back to the monkey video).. and wouldn't a massive lawsuit make them rethink their attitude on security at least a little?
-Qyiet
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The scary thing is...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&t opic_id=11874&mesg_id=19911
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/10/1172/9052
http://avirubin .com/vote.pdf
Some of those are things I learned not to do in my first year of CS coursework.
Yeah, so I pretty much don't use ATMs anymore. Not until these sloppy bastards stop being so lazy. And crooked.
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Re: More diebold Stories without substance
http://www.kcpw.org/article/203
As a Utahn, I sure do hope that there is a clause that says we can kick out of the whole deal should the machines prove faulty, but with only two of forty machines failing outright, I'm sure that Diebold will claim that they are well within their obligation.
Also, there are fears that alternative machines will not meet HAVA 2006 guidelines:
http://utahcountvotes.org/paper_under_glass.php
Moreover, our beloved Senator Orrin Hatch, is a complete Luddite. He hasn't a clue about technology. And since most of our elected officials are either baby-boomers or older, I doubt that many of them do, either. (Sorry old people, but you know who you are... actually, if you're one of them, you aren't reading this right now!)
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Not the whole story
That being said, I'm not sure Diebold is the company I'd trust with my voting machines. Not until they make a paper trail a default part of the process. There's no good reason other than the potential to sway election results to not have a verifiable paper trail.
However, in this case the county manager probably isn't the Dudley Doright everyone wants to think he is.
Rob Miles
--
There are only 10 types of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Re: Not the whole story
Diebold categorically denies requests for third-party evaluations of their systems. And for good reason:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=504
When confronted with an evaluation, they will fail. They've got a worse record than the Devil Rays.
So Bruce Funk has cost the state $40K more in blood money to Diebold. I didn't see Joe Demma flinch when Diebold presented his office with the $27M bill, as mentioned in your link.
Asking Diebold to comment on the quality of their system is like asking Bush if he's ever lied to the American people. It creates conflicting interests. It's makes sense for Diebold to take a play from the RIAA book and keep nosy people from asking too many questions.
In my opinion, Bruce Funk is doing his county, and this nation a great service. I hope he slays this goliath.
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What's Diebold's Political Bent
Not that it matters that much...I'm just sayin...
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Electronic voting and tabulating: the greatest sha
Also google Ohio Sec of State General Kenneth Blackwell and election problems. Ohio is so rife with election violations and irregularities that I can't keep track of all them.
Is it 2 or or now 3 Cleveland election official bureaucrats have been convicted of elections law violations and are still on the job?
Go try and count how many Diebold voting machine employees around the country are convicted fellons. I guess you can be trusted to program an election machine as a convicted fellon but you can't be allowed to vote on one.
I also recommend Black Box Voting and Utah Counts Votes.
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Re: What's Diebold's Political Bent
O'Dell quit at the same time an SEC lawsuit was filed by shareholders charging serious misrepresentations about company health.
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Re: Ahhh
Right. Because then who would you shoot in the face?
:-)
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Ummm.. Hellooooo....
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Re: More diebold Stories without substance
If you follow the links, all the details are there. That's why we provide the links.
This is a major ommission. Why did the state of Utah agree with Diebold?
Seems like a money issue, from what they're saying.
Because the the tests probaly made no sense at all. Why is a county official running security tests? Who did he get to do the testing? What are their qualifications? Did you ever think that perhaps they did break the macihnes because they had no idea what they were doing?
Actually, the team he hired to do the security testing is well respected, and was the same team that demonstrated the problems with these voting machines in Florida. It's all in the links.
Once again, one-sided reporting and once again no facts to support that side. Just Great......
The facts are all there. We're not "reporters". We post a short story, with our analysis, but make it easy for you to read through the details. I'm sorry if you chose not to, but don't conclude that there are no facts to support what we wrote, just because you didn't click through on any of the links.
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Makes me wonder....
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Civil Disobediance
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Diebold
I live in Utah, in fact in a neighboring county to where Funk is questioning the system. As a democrat in this state, my vote doesn't count for squat. But I sure as hell don't want a machine that will give it to the other guy or not count it at all.
I think the rest of the county clerks, nut just in Utah but elsewhere, should jump on board with this one. They hold the responsibility for making sure votes are counted correctly. The tests in California came about because local officials raised concerns.
Here's the local story... http://www.ecprogress.com/index.php?tier=1&pub=2006-03-28&page=news#3
And when people like Utah Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert don't listen or claim the problem doesn't really exist, the rest of us should demand that we vote in the old fashion until they do. The problem with the whole e-vote concept in general is simply that there are only two producers out there. And neither one is willing to let the public review software and routines used for tabulating votes. That's a huge problem.
Voting is the cornerstone of a democracy. Without it, you have totalitarian dictatorships. With Diebold contributing significant amounts to political parties, I have a problem trusting them to count the votes accurately.
The voting process should be transparent, and I for one will demand a standard paper ballot until it becomes a more open process.
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Find out what your county is doing
About a year ago, I went with a group of voters on a tour of the Travis County, Texas election office. We were the first group to have ever asked for a tour.
One reason that county governments make such iffy technology procurement decisions is that the main information source they have is the vendors themselves. The more technically-literate citizens get involved in the voting process, the more opportunities for better local decisions.
In the old days, elections were supervised by citizens from both parties watching the counting. These days, it's meaningless to watch someone press the "count" button. Citizens who want to help assure fair elections should start to monitor the technology purchasing and implementation process.
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