Apple Supporting Windows, All That's Left Are The Shiny Boxes

from the just-another-pc-maker dept

Wed, Apr 5th 2006 10:12am — Joseph Weisenthal

Ever since Apple's announcement that they would switch to Intel chips speculation has swirled over whether the computers could run Microsoft Windows. One group held a contest, offering $14,000 to whomever could get Windows to boot on one of the new Macs. Today, despite Steve Jobs' insistence that the company would never support Windows, Apple released software that guides users through the steps of loading Windows onto a Mac. So now that this is possible, who will this appeal to? Are there a lot of Mac users who secretly prefer the Windows OS? Or will Windows users, envious of Apple's slick boxes, finally make the switch? Probably it's some of both. Either way, it reinforces the idea that Apple is a design company, not a technology company. Like the rest of the economy, they outsource the guts and production of their products, while profiting from their expertise in style, usability, and branding.

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cycle003, 5 Apr 2006 @ 10:17am

Finally
I'm impressed to see Apple moving outside its proprietary box.
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Chris, 5 Apr 2006 @ 10:26am

Not impressed.
I'll be impressed when I can boot OSX on a PC; officially. It's great that we would triple boot one of these with XP, OSX, and Ubuntu, but the hardware is still a little high.

Yes, I know that "similiarly configured Dell systems are about the same price", but those will drop drastically as Dual Core gets more popular. The same won't be true about the MacBook prices.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 10:40am

The dark side...
If Win XP proves stable and reliable on a Mac, will Adobe, Macromedia, ect have any reason to continue developing and supporting Mac specific versions?

Given the cost of doing it and the tiny Mac share of market, I think not.

Hey, Steve! I think you just shot yourself in the foot. And got mine, his and hers with the ricochet. And Martha says, this is not a good thing...
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Mark, 5 Apr 2006 @ 10:43am

Secret preferences
"Are there a lot of Mac users who secretly prefer the Windows OS?"

More likely, there are a lot of Mac users who not-so-secretly would like to run a software title that's not available on the Mac side. Game software comes to mind -- I would have been playing "City of Heroes" from the day it came out, but buying a separate Windows PC just so I can play a game is a hard sell to my wife.

Another potential market are people who work on Windows boxes at work but prefer Macs at home (again, I fall in this category). A dual-boot offers tempting work at home possibilities.
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C.E. Lopes, 5 Apr 2006 @ 10:49am

Won't affect many people...
... unless Apple starts offering Macs with Windows pre-installed. Which I doubt they will.

I'm more interested in actual virtualization being made available. Being able to run a Windows app side by side with a mac os x app will be key. No one that has used both will choose Windows (IMHO) except that some applications are only available on the MS platform.

Dual boot, I suspect, is a way to address that concern, i.e. I would love to use Mac OS X but I really need Windows to run X application.

In the end, dual boot might increase market share for Mac OS X because people will be able to say "I can always default back to Windows" and buy into it.

The idea that software developers will just say "Ah, the can run Windows and hence I don't need to support Mac OS X anymore" is interesting - but with the same underlying platform available now, that became much more manageable. I doubt that would be the case.

My 2 cents. :-)
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anonymous coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:12am

Dual or triple boot machines are really the cool thing. I can boot in Windows for work and its standard applications, boot in OS X for editing some home video, and boot in Linux for playing around with some OSS and teaking my home server.

Running a virtual OS will always be a hack. It would easier to reboot into the other OS than to run some buggy virtual environment.
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Jonesy, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:19am

Apple Still Does NOT Support Windows
direct from the Boot Camp page on Apple's website "Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows."
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Xanik, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:24am

The only reason I havent bought a Mac yet, is because of gaming. Seriously! Outside of games, there's nothing a mac couldn't do for me, or another application I couldn't use that has similar/better use.

True, dual-booting isn't 'ideal' compared to virtualization, but I'll certainly take it in the interum!

And, yes, companies will still develop mac versions, because OS X is a better operating system because it doesn't support legacy hardware anymore. It's a modern OS. This won't kill Apple at all, but actually help them because people will use the Mac OS more than Windows, thus showing that perhaps mac versions need to be worked on more.
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Brandon, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:25am

I am a loyal OS X user but I realize that I live in a windows world. Unfortunately enterprise software rarely runs properly on my Mac (all VPN software comes to mind). I keep toying around with the Idea of buying a pos Dell but now I can buy the MacBook Pro that I want and still be able to work from home.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:40am

Now they need to tell us how to Load OS X onto our PCs, and make it available for free download! Since they sell their hardware for such outrageous prices it shouldnt hurt them too much to make OS X free, and just think of the increase in market share!

And the day I can run all my games in OS X will be the day that I have a new frisbee with the windows logo on it.
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Mark Murphy, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:45am

Missing the point
Your missing Apple's Plan.

1) Let Windows boot on the Mac. This will expose more people to the mac HW and increase sales. It will also allow more people to experience a Mac and possible switch.

This will first be a hit to Dell and HP. If I can buy a Mac and run OSX, Win, and Linux in style why would I buy a Dell box. So the first hit will be against the PC vendors. MS will actually benefit initially.

2) But the second part will impact MS. Now that more people will be buying Macs to triple boot, the more people will be exposed to the mac experience, the more converts Apple will get. Apple does not have to worry about losing people, they already have a core population supporting them.
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suv4x4, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:51am

Am I missing something huuuge here?
Mac + OSX = omg so cool, yipee! great, omg omg!

Mac + OSX + Windows = bah, just shiny boxes.. :P
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Commodore Crush, 5 Apr 2006 @ 11:58am

Viruses
One of the things that attracts me most to apple is the lack of viruses written. Wouldn't that endanger this?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:05pm

Re: Missing the point
3) will impact Linux
for those who want a unix environment with all it's command line tools.... why reboot to linux when it's all there in OSX?
Get some OpenSource apis into the Aqua stuff and you'll start seeing opensource apps for apple.....

4) maybe Gnome and KDE will get left behind
or perhaps even be inspired to do a lot better.

-E
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Posterlogo, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:05pm

Not quite there...
This is helpful (the dual boot scenario) because of the software out there for Windows. I think what would be even more helpful is to be able to be operating under OS X, yet run Win software (i.e. virtualization), without actually running Crapdows XP.
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randdickson, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:06pm

Huh ?
"Either way, it reinforces the idea that Apple is a design company, not a technology company"

Created the original digital camera, first laser printer, firewire, ...

What koolade do you drink ?
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monkey, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:06pm

new hardware
consolidating chipsets and dual booting is yay. The firmware on dualcore systems is being manipulated to parallel boot.
instead of vmware, wine, etc, just alt-tab to the other OS running in the background. user friendly by late 2007.
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Ben McNelly, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:08pm

Pigs are flying and I think Hell just froze over.
I have been missing some of macs features, mainly just little stuff, but it would nice to have one and still feel like i got some value from it. Its not going to make a good gaming machene though. Might make a good entertainment center type computer though.
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Lone Bannana, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:09pm

Uh...
I see how this would be good for someone that already has a copy of Windows XP Pro... But

Having to buy an Apple AND a copy of XP? What, I'm made of money?

Only person this would help is Bill Gates. More computers to have his OS on.

In My situation, i would buy an apple for just Apple Programs; Final Cut Pro, iDVD, QuickTime Support when exporting to video in Flash.

Now if Windows could export QuickTime Video In Flash, I would definitely reconsider.
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Reality, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:09pm

Yes it IS a big deal...
I can't quite peg the predictable group moaning "no big deal" but it's sure to be some of the Mac die-hards and others with the usual fan-boy mentality - the world as seen through a straw.
Sounds like a few of the Mac crowd are worried there will evetually be nobody left for them to pretend they are superior to. "Gosh, they're letting 'those people' into the
club now?" Waah.

I've been using and supporting Windows as an admin for many years but started out on a Mac, and this news is HUGE. I ordered a new Mac Book Pro today and three others in my office did too.

We'd all rather use an OS that works instead of working for an OS. Period. No contest.

Those forced to use Microsoft garbage will spend more and more time in OS X now that they have an easy, practical choice and this WILL 'trickle down' sooner than later.

Common sense: buy a Windows-only machine or get a Mac and have the choice?

Having a choice is always a big deal. But this is huge.
Wait and see.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:16pm

Re: Missing the point
No, _you're_ missing Apple's Plan.

If Mac users can run software that they want that is currently PC only, they no longer have a need/reason to switch or buy a second machine. Think games and business software.

The number of PC users interested in switching to a Mac (at a higher cost) is going to be tiny. The average PC user thinks dual-boot means owning 2 pair of boots and Linux is that kid in the Peanuts comic strip.
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Bannana Peel, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:16pm

Not a good gaming machine? Are you nuts?
"Its not going to make a good gaming machene though."

WTF? have you read the specs on the laptops alone? They benchmark WINDOWS XP faster than the Windows Intel machines do.

http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/03/21/8212.aspx

I am running numerous games on a Mac Book Pro - with it's 7200 RPM 120 GB drive and 256 MB graphics. They scream on it - much faster than the other two laptops I have running Windows.

The Mac desktops are just as capable of gaming as any others - you have no clue what you're talking about.
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dan, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:20pm

Re: Huh ?
>>"Either way, it reinforces the idea that Apple is a design company, not a technology company"

>Created the original digital camera, first laser printer, firewire, ...

>What koolade do you drink ?

i don't drink koolade, i drink truth serum. Here's the truth:

Apple may have originally been a technology company, and was recently a design company.

Now that they are using the Intel CPUs, they are merely a *marketing* company. The only difference between Apple and Dell, Compaq/HP (and by extension, Ford, GM, Thomson, RCA) et. al. is that Apple is pretty damn good at it.

Watch 'em take a big slice of market share in the 24 months following ship date of these boxes.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:22pm

Re: Finally
The box remains proprietary. The hardware is fixed so the drivers, etc. can be totally supported. They are now allowing Windows XP to be installed. That is NOT the same thing as "open architecture".
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:24pm

Wrong WRONG WRONG!!!
ATTENTION APPLE!!!!

WRONG! You have it EXACTLY BACKWARDS!

No one I know is STUPID enough to pay $4500 for a box to run WINDOWS ON.
I can get a faster stronger box from any number of companies for half the price and if I'm a geek (proudly thanks) I can build one even better for even less.

A sweet design will NOT insure sales, reliability and security insures sales.

You want to make REAL money? Make OSX run on ALL Intel hardware, Give MS some REAL competition, you'll only be helping them in the long run, a REAL competitor will let them avoid all the monopoly and anti trust charges.

And I think it's OBVIOUS by now to everyone that there's one heck of allot more money in software than hardware.

Why would Apple want to become Dell? Don't become Dell, become Microsoft!

Put that AMAZING Apple capability for Cool Useful intuitive design into the OS, make it run on EVERYTHING & RULE the WORLD bwhaaaaa!

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Reality, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Missing the point
I haven't missed that point with all respect - and it's a good one.

I just am absolutely certain it's wrong.
There is a LOT of 'buzz' among Windows users already about this and I'm getting calls today from even very non-technical clients considering new machines in the near future to ask why not buy a Mac?

Many Windows users already own Windows XP SP2 on CD and there will be a non-beta of Boot Camp coming that will work with an XP SP2 burned as an updated CD from the original. Or somebody will work around it and publish it.

If cost was the killing factor people who buy the Mac hardware are not going to be run off by the cost of buying XP SP2 on CD.

Also Mac isn't that much higher of a cost and will be far less so in coming months with cheaper machines.

And the factual bottom line - Mac is cheaper by far when you do even a rough estimate of time spent working vs. time spent fixing, supporting, reloading, patching.

The Mac software is a legitimate snag in the machinery though - be interesting to see what effect this has on it.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:27pm

Re: Huh ?
Erm..

First digital camera: Kodak (or Sony for the first marketed 'filmless' camera)

First laser printer: Xerox (Or IBM for the first commercial one).

However, Firewire you can have.

Apple may be the word on every fashion conscious person's lips nowadays, but they re-invented themselves as a design company and there is no going back.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:28pm

Re: Viruses
Absolutely!

Viruses don't care about the hardware, they care about the OS (and occasionally the software). If you run WinXP on a Mac, you are facing the same WinXP viruses. If you run OSX on your Mac, you will have the majority of all viruses (all known to me as of this date) not affect you in the slightest.

From the Apple BootCamp site: (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp
"Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."
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Anonymouse Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:31pm

I have OSX on a dell laptop but i have no interest in using windows on a mac. Nor will i buy any Apple product that has an Intel chip and/or windows loaded.
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Steve Jobs, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:32pm

Dear Coward,
We love getting (bizzare) summations of economic theory about a hugely successful corporation from a guy who has nothing else to do but post endlessly on here all day, every day.

Thanks for enlightening us - whew! Thank god you spotted our huge error.
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anon, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:36pm

Graphic Arts
I am sys admin (and every other kind of electricity related admin you can imagine) for a small print/graphic arts shop. Dual booting would actually save us on hardware costs because we could run applications like Corel, MS Office, and whatever broke-ass apps our customers who don't want to make the switch to mac want to use on the intel side, and still run the latest Creative Suite by Adobe on the Mac side of things without having to have 2 boxes being paid for, and 2 boxes for electricity. This would help when our customers send files in some ridiculous format that should never be used because "my program does everything that Adobe does".

It's not a bad thing to me. I really don't care either way though, since I have turned strictly to Linux for my personal use(I do my gaming on consoles). The only thing that comes close to making me care is that if I can pitch the idea well enough to dual boot intel-macs, there may be a bonus in it for me. Woo Hoo.
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MartinE, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:42pm

where are these numbers coming from
This 'Apple cost more argument is simply not true. MacBook starts at 2 grand for a premium fast laptop, iMac 20 is a very fast desktop with a 20" LCD for $1700. 4500?
Take a look at what the markets think- AAPL is up 9.5% today.
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Marco, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:43pm

That article is inaccurate in that Apple DOES NOT support Windows XP. The bootloader is supported, and is provided for ppl to use.
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Drew, 5 Apr 2006 @ 12:46pm

Many TechDirt Commenters Missed the Point....
Too many Windows fanatics (and there are those as fanatical and ignorant as the worst Apple fanatics) use the lame argument that all software is written for Windows. What this move does for Apple is allows them to move into mainstream locations like businesses and schools. I daresay most home users don't have a need for this, unless they need to work from home from time to time.

If you learn on a Mac in school currently, you have to re-learn (unlearn?) when you get into the business world and enter the world of Windows. This move is so you can bring your tools that you know and trust with you into that fray and still be able to run the work environment stuff. It also shuts up the school boards and the PTA groups from whining about money spent from the school's budget on Macs because "no one uses them".

This is a very good move for Apple, and this is in no way a bad thing for Microsoft (more copies of Windows sold to Mac users, etc). This IS a wakeup call for hardware manufacturers to a) make better hardware, b) release stable drivers that work and continue to support them after it leaves the design floor, and c) innovate. Ditching antiquated BIOS technology alone is a fantastic move. I'm sure there will be more.

Now… OS X retrofit to work on hardware that is slapped together in bizarre configurations in an environment which can’t be predicted or controlled, let alone “normalized”? It will never happen, and it should never happen. But that’s a completely separate lesson.
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tuyen, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:00pm

Re: Re: Huh ?
>Now that they are using the Intel CPUs, they are merely a *marketing* company

So switching CPUs make them a "marketing" company? You're clueless. Apple was never about the CPU, dumbshit.
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Kevin, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:09pm

Virtualization and gaming
I've been looking forward to something like this for awhile, but there are a couple of points to consider for those of you who would consider dual booting for gaming, are asking for virtualization,etc.

1. Only the iMac, Mini, and MacBook pro currently have Intel CPUs and would be able to run Windows XP natively.

2. None of those machines have display adapters suitable for what most people call "gaming" under Windows.

3. You can currently use Virtual PC for the Mac to run a Windows XP-based virtual PC session on a Mac. This should be more than enough to allow you to support your business applications. Granted, it's not as clean as it could be (having to boot a Virtual Machine image first), but it's not bad.
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Brian, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:09pm

Re: Huh ?
who has ever used or heard of an apple camera, laser printing? hows their printer business doing? firewire is dead along with os x. if apple is a technology company, they failed. If they are a design company, they succeeded.
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dan, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Huh ?
Fuckwad wrote:
>So switching CPUs make them a "marketing" company? You're clueless. Apple was never about the CPU, dumbshit.

-- until they decided to market the same shit as everyone else.

i'm clueless? Yeah, well maybe i'm clueless.

But you're blind. And there is none so blind as he who refuses to see.

You make me wish for a revival of the eugenics movement.

Cordially,

-- dan
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Mike Kilpatrick, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:18pm

Video Conferencing
I'm a recent Mac convert (dual core 20" iMac) from Windows XP and I'm happy for one reason - it will allow me to go back to one piece of software for video chatting with my family in Scotland (I'm based in New Zealand). I've tried all of the Mac alternatives, and found that the best solution was running Amsn for video and Skype for chatting - and even then it was never guaranteed to work well. A quick dual boot into Windows and run MSN Messenger and my wife, and more importantly my family will be happy they don't have to piddle around with other software.

Incidentally, I don't regret purchasing the Mac one bit. It's stability, speed, included software and the operating system is fantastic. I'm glad I didn't buy another PC.
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dwind, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Huh ?
I'm wondering if this doesn't have soemthing to do with Vista being delayed? Could it be that maybe the pc companies want to come out with new Vista hardware for the christmas season but are now hampered by the Vista delay so they go to Apple and ssay 'how about you support this new hardware with osx and virtually support winxp'?
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haha, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:31pm

Maybe...
... this is just a belated April's Fools joke :).
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Quik, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:36pm

new computer.
Well this basically decides my laptop issue at hand with me getting ready to go to college....I'm buying a new Mac. hopefully soon.
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Tim, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:51pm

now if i can just convince my wife
I have been dying to try this dual boot windows/OS X thing since i heard about the contest being a success. now all I need to do is convince my wife that we need to part with the $800-1500 for either a mac mini or a iMac.
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VistaUser, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:52pm

Vista release
I'm amazed that it took 40 comments before Vista was even mentioned. I think the Vista delay is a good thing. For the first time, MS are going to make sure a product works before it ships.

Because Vista has been built from the ground up, with a new kernel, it is a new OS. Not a new version of "Crapdows". The similarities that I have seen so far with OSX's fancy visual features are unmistakeable.

Will Apple have to start over when they get their hands on the final release of Vista?
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Kevin Trumbull, 5 Apr 2006 @ 1:59pm

I'll second that with the gaming...

I have a Powermac and a home-built Athlon. Lan parties are one of the things that I do for socialization, and the Mac just doesn't cut it for that...

However, an Intel based mac that can run XP means that I can ditch the Wintendo, and have a single machine that I can afford to keep more up to date. This will save me lots of money.

Have you ever used Photoshop on Windows? It sucks. After I've gotten used to not having "Application Windows" that all of my documents _must_ remain in on OSX, I'm not going back. Window's interface is a hacked up kludge that's still partially based on the Windows 3.1 windowing model, which is pathetic. Athough it took me some time to get used to OSX's interface, I'm now more productive on OSX than Windows, and not by a small amount. The kicker is that my Mac is lots slower than my Athlon.

Much of this is due to how much easier it is to multi-task on OSX. When I work doing web design, I generally have 10 or more applications open. Switching between the windows simply doesn't scale very well on Windows.
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Rick, 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:14pm

Next Step
Now if Apple starts releasing information on how to boot OS X on a Wintel machine, they could seriosuly alter the OS marketplace.

Imagine a free 30 day trial of OS X, to try it out. How many NEW people will get hooked? It should have a one click install, with simple dual boot instructions - it would capture an easy 10-20% of Windows market share within months...
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Kevin Trumbull, 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:23pm

Furthermore, Ill add to this regarding the orginial moron post.

I've used Windows since version 2, and DOS before that. I got my first Unix account in 1990. I've used Linux since 1997.

My first memory of a Mac was being shown one and asking "Where's the command line?" When I was told that there wasn't one, I lost all interest in them.

So to rephrase: I know Windows. I maintain networks of Windows machine at work. I have Windows machines at home. I don't really like Windows very much at all. It's terribly proprietary, and closed. It's got some completely obnoxious behaviors by default, and some that require hacking out (I don't use MSN messenger, I don't want it on the machine, I don't want it running or restarting itself when I terminate the process). Every version of Windows seems to want to do less of what I want the machine to do and foist more crap on it that I don't want. Vista seems to be going even farther in this direction.

OSX is 70% open code. I can actually download that much of the OSes source code for free. I can edit the config files using a text editor. I can add languages to exixting proprietary programs by translating a few files and making a new directory. I can edit the icons used by a program.

In short, I can do pretty much anything I want to to the OS that I want to do. I am not being protected from myself or kept from hacking my own machine. I can replace the existing command line utilities or even change the boot loader screens. Regardless of how much Apple is seen as being proprietary, their OS (NeXTStep's successor) is very very open. Of the OSes I've used, only Linux or FreeBSD are more open.

Unlike FreeBSD, which I used for many things (dual-booted with Windows), OSX also has commercial software support. And the programs seem to be more user efficient (few actions needed to get something done) than software for other OSes I've used.

The point is that if Apple decides to use Windows anything for the "Mac Experience" then they'll lose everything that caused me to switch in the first place. Many of us feel this way.
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Laughing, 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:24pm

haHA
[Am I missing something huuuge here? by suv4x4 on Apr 5th, 2006 @ 11:51am

Mac + OSX = omg so cool, yipee! great, omg omg!

Mac + OSX + Windows = bah, just shiny boxes.. :P]

Look Billy, a zealot....
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JH, 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:26pm

Win for evil work, MacOS for everything else ...
... and all on high caliber (looks and performance) HW.

The ONLY reason this is a good thing - and I am sure this has already been said countless times by the true Mac-heads - is that the dual-boot option will finally allow me to only have to carry one laptop :-D

There simply is no other value for Windows on Apple HW.

Hopefully a side effect here will be that PC HW vendors (read Dell) will step-up and stop delivering absolute crap HW (both looks and performance).
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frank Pasquale Jr., 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:27pm

Re: The only reason!
you'er totaly nuts and I am totaly loadeD! I am truly enjoying the new mac book pro. I am setting here trying to control my keyboard on super speed and have never before had a laptop of my own. This is totaly awsome forget the spelling!. I have a total of 15 different pages loaded at the same time. I am listening to some really good music on Audio visions and trying to talk to you at the same time. I can't wait to turn this laptop in on an upgrade to a newer version or have my machine upgraded. I have purchased one of the first mac book pros and I keep it humming. It really heats up and would probably burn a bare lap. I don't care. It's sweeeeet! I really am enjoying my first lap top. I wish i could just get used to this dam laptop keyboard. After spending the first 15 years with a gatewaY 350 GHZ P II I AM FLYING AND TRULY ENJOYING IT. I can 't waIT TO load up once I turn this machine in for a refrram to 10.6 panther and WINDOWS CAPABILITIES TO ENLJOYING THE BEST That apple has to offer. I believe that the 30th birthday of apple is the best thing that has happened to me yet in my geeky computer baptism world. OSX is wonderful and will only get better once I partition and go also back to WINDOWS. I retiired from my job as a civil engineer in January of this year and look forward to each new day. I intend to use the both of best world's to complete a book that will allow me to for the first time in mh life expreess myself. Thankyou APPLE. I wish that I could have afforded this luxury before this. Flying high and riding on the wings of an Eagle. I know that Apple has truly hit upon the golden goose that layed the golden egg. Keep it up and long live the APPLE.
Frank P. LIVING IN THE WILDS OF THE APPLACIANS OF SOUTHWESTERN NY. MY NEXT WISH IS FOR SOMETHING GREATER THAN ISP DIAL UP OUT IN THE MOUNTANOUS WOODS OF THE WILDS. YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THE TIME I HAVE HAD IN ENJOYMENT THUS FAR. Your's ln faith, Steve Jobs, lead me to nirvanna!
Frank P.
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frank Pasquale Jr., 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:28pm

Re: The only reason!
you'er totaly nuts and I am totaly loadeD! I am truly enjoying the new mac book pro. I am setting here trying to control my keyboard on super speed and have never before had a laptop of my own. This is totaly awsome forget the spelling!. I have a total of 15 different pages loaded at the same time. I am listening to some really good music on Audio visions and trying to talk to you at the same time. I can't wait to turn this laptop in on an upgrade to a newer version or have my machine upgraded. I have purchased one of the first mac book pros and I keep it humming. It really heats up and would probably burn a bare lap. I don't care. It's sweeeeet! I really am enjoying my first lap top. I wish i could just get used to this dam laptop keyboard. After spending the first 15 years with a gatewaY 350 GHZ P II I AM FLYING AND TRULY ENJOYING IT. I can 't waIT TO load up once I turn this machine in for a refrram to 10.6 panther and WINDOWS CAPABILITIES TO ENLJOYING THE BEST That apple has to offer. I believe that the 30th birthday of apple is the best thing that has happened to me yet in my geeky computer baptism world. OSX is wonderful and will only get better once I partition and go also back to WINDOWS. I retiired from my job as a civil engineer in January of this year and look forward to each new day. I intend to use the both of best world's to complete a book that will allow me to for the first time in mh life expreess myself. Thankyou APPLE. I wish that I could have afforded this luxury before this. Flying high and riding on the wings of an Eagle. I know that Apple has truly hit upon the golden goose that layed the golden egg. Keep it up and long live the APPLE.
Frank P. LIVING IN THE WILDS OF THE APPLACIANS OF SOUTHWESTERN NY. MY NEXT WISH IS FOR SOMETHING GREATER THAN ISP DIAL UP OUT IN THE MOUNTANOUS WOODS OF THE WILDS. YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THE TIME I HAVE HAD IN ENJOYMENT THUS FAR. Your's ln faith, Steve Jobs, lead me to nirvanna!
Frank P.
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Hurrikane, 5 Apr 2006 @ 2:55pm

Impression Threshold
I will be impressed the day I can dump Windows XP on my PC and run OSX. Running proprietary-based software on commidity-based hardware is the real benefit!

- Hurk
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Kevin Trumbull, 5 Apr 2006 @ 3:02pm

This means that all that's left is for Apple to release a SLI or Crossfire enabled tower, and for Nvidia or ATI to write universal drivers.

Since that's what I really want. A tower that will take a newer CPU (minis and iMacs are CPU upgradable), and a standard video card (I thinking 7900 GT or so).

Then I can have the ultra-fas Mac and Gaming rig all in one.
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Laughing, 5 Apr 2006 @ 3:24pm

Re: Huh ?
[Created the original digital camera, first laser printer, firewire, ...]

Looking at this staement we have yet another fine example of the American educational system, next h'll say that allpe invented the GUI, say that they invented the firest transistor while you're at it....
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tuyen, 5 Apr 2006 @ 4:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Huh ?
>i'm clueless? Yeah, well maybe i'm clueless.

At least you're honest.

>-- until they decided to market the same shit as everyone else.

How do you figure? Apple's hardware, aside from having an Intel CPU, is hardly the same as a Dell notebook. As people have pointed out, there is no legacy BIOS.

>You make me wish for a revival of the eugenics movement.

Dumbshit. Racist too.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2006 @ 4:33pm

Just a thought, if someone were to run Windows on a Mac and get themselves a virus. Then reboot into OSX with the Windows virus still sitting on the HDD.

Would there be a chance of a "cross contamination"?

I realise Windows apps don't run on OSX, but hackers and virus writers tend to be a very creative bunch, I am sure that it would not take much to tweak the code of a Windows virus so it can run on both platforms.

So, infiltrate the machine through a Windows vulnerability, infect the hard drive, then attack the Mac locally. Does that seem plausible?
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Legacy_bioS_HA HA HA, 5 Apr 2006 @ 4:51pm

OS_X_86
so when are they gonna let me buy OSX in a X86 build? Im not a mac kinda guy, but Ive always dug OSX as an OS.
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Arochone, 5 Apr 2006 @ 5:41pm

Re: Won't affect many people...
I gotta disagree with you on one point...I've used both...I've used all three actually (Win, Lin, Mac), and I gotta say, Lin is best, then Windoze, then Mac. Macs actually make me physically sick...I get all dizzy and disoriented...and the one button mouse is a pain in the ass...I have 8 different functions on my mouse...I can't live with only 1!
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Bill Gates, Roman Emperor of the West, 5 Apr 2006 @ 6:04pm

Se los dije!!! voy a dominar el mundo

ñaca, ñaca, truka
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dan, 5 Apr 2006 @ 6:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Huh ?
>Dumbshit. Racist too.

No, i'm not a racist. i don't know your race, nor do i care.

i'm simply predjudiced against stupid people. And i do know you're stupid.

-- dan
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Caledai, 5 Apr 2006 @ 7:27pm

Re: The dark side...
Somehow I don't think thats the case...

Apple has - and always will have a niche market among companies in the multimedia industry.

Its in the desktop market where apple has suffered.

Besides, once the OS is compatible with intel chips - it would be easier for Adobe to port its software across to the mac environment.
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tuyen, 5 Apr 2006 @ 8:15pm

Listen Dan, all flaming aside do you use a Mac? Comments like "Apple is a marketing company" light my flame thrower because the vast majority of people who use Apple hardware, be it an iPod, an iSight, a MacMini, or a MacBook, immediately realize that Apple lives up to most of the hype. People look at the cool design and unless they use it first hand, they dismiss just how well it all functions.

This is a great move for Apple. Are you too poor to afford Apple's price premium. Is that it?

>You make me wish for a revival of the eugenics movement.
>No, i'm not a racist.

Now you're making me call you a liar. And what's with "You're dumb. No, YOU'RE dumb" ... J.H.C, these things degenerate fast. Farewell, it's been fun.
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Anon Cow, 5 Apr 2006 @ 8:32pm

Re: Won't affect many people...
I have used all three too, and prefer Windows followed by Linux and then Macs....and know of many people who feel the same way...most of them find the Mac way very presumptive and restricted (like "hey, you don't need a 2-button mouse ...ummm...until we tell you that you need it") and not lacking in power tools / operations in the GUI mode. The command line is definitely robust but most users prefer the pseudosecurity / ease of the GUI and rarely open the Terminal.
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Anon Cow, 5 Apr 2006 @ 8:35pm

Re: Apple Still Does NOT Support Windows
But how long do you think it will take for a "Value Added Reseller" to appear that will provide a preinstalled Windows on Macs akin to Yellow Dog Linux in the PowerPC days?
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spam, 5 Apr 2006 @ 9:23pm

Re:
"Unfortunately enterprise software rarely runs properly on my Mac (all VPN software comes to mind)"

Then you're not looking.. uh, at all. Checkpoint makes a Mac client, Cisco makes a Mac client, and there's always VPNTracker. Or the built-in OS X stuff, which works great. Even with Cryptocard or SecurID.

/me has set up several systems
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Daniel, 5 Apr 2006 @ 10:01pm

OMFG Incredible ....

Within all the articles i read on Techdirt, by FAAAR, the articles about Macs are the ones with more idiotic ramblings per comment i ever seen.

1.
>So switching CPUs make them a "marketing" company? You're clueless. Apple was never about the CPU, dumbshit.

-- until they decided to market the same shit as everyone else.

When the hell Apple was all that about the CPU ? Next you're going to tell me that it was Apple who designed and manufactured the PowerPC ? IBM and Motorola ( mostly IBM with the POWER microprocessor ) did all the hard work, Apple just contributed ( for their one use ) with the OS - and even worse ... they failed! the initial OS created for the AIM alliance fallen in flames worst than the . The main revenue source for IBM with the PowerPC was the mainframe market and embedded market anyways!

Apple developed the first digital camera ? WTF ? The first laser printed OMG

> How do you figure? Apple's hardware, aside from having an Intel CPU, is hardly the same as a Dell notebook. As people have pointed out, there is no legacy BIOS.

OK it _MIGHT_ be not that similar architectural wise ( not thaaat much different but whatever ), but it isn't just because it doesnt use BIOS ffs, the x86 platform CAN USE EFI ( if it didn't, Mac OS X wouldn't boot with EFI anyway ), the only reason a Dell computer doesnt use EFI is because WINDOWS doesn't use it and at least, till date, most Dell costumers are Windows users! U can easily find various bootloaders for Linux f ex that boot EFI.
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Sychodelix, 6 Apr 2006 @ 12:01am

Macs & Stuff...
As for this story...it's not that interesting. As some people have pointed out, Windows running on Mac hardware will only defeat the purpose since the computer will be very vulnerable to viruses and such, since the Mac's OS is all that is keeping those things from happening.

Now the part where I get jumped on and beaten senseless by all the Mac fanboys.

Macs are cute and all with their pretty designs and nice programs for pretty graphics, animation, music and an extremely secure OS, but the fact is, that they can't run jack compared to a PC. Another big deal is that I can build my own pc for $1000 or less that will eat any Mac on the market for breakfast and if you even try to argue with that about how powerful macs are, you're a complete freaking moron.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending microsoft. Windows annoys the hell out of me, Vista is going to be HORRIBLE from what I've seen so far and I love the way OSX runs and "feels". So the REAL story is long before this when a few hackers got OSX running on a normal non-proprietary PC, that doesn't cost ungodly amounts of cash. And guess what? It runs FASTER! Obviously if Steve Jobs had any sense at all he would concentrate on OSX for a normal PC (without all the hacking) and worry about the Mac's themselves secondly. He'd make a whole lot more money and get a lot more people interested in Macs. And wow...I could actually run the high end games that I want to play and still use OSX, without spending an arm and a leg.

I nearly died laughing when I read about the framerates on the Mac version of UT2004. They were around 30-40 FPS for even the HIGH end power macs! My PC is only a mid range one with a geforce 6600, and I can get over double that framerate. It's all so very sad.

Anyways...yeah. I'd love OSX to run on my PC alongside Windows XP SP2, but apparently, Stevie boy hasn't figured out what a good idea it is yet. But if I didn't have a PC, I would NEVER buy a Mac to run windows on...it just doesn't make sense.

*waiting for the flaming to begin*
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kozo, 6 Apr 2006 @ 12:29am

Re: Vista release
What? vista is a new OS?? youve got to be kidding me!!!!
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kdub, 6 Apr 2006 @ 7:57am

Honestly?
I just want a pink computer. There, I said it.
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Mark Murphy, 6 Apr 2006 @ 10:50am

Re: Re: Missing the point
It depends on whos perspective you look at. From Apples perspective of improveing market share my view is accurate. If you look at the end user then yes prople will also want to dual boot so they can play games. etc.

also comments about a $4,500 system, that is only if you go on the high end. you can just as easliy spend that much on a high end PC with the MS tax.

Just for a point of reference, after 15years in PCs, and HATEING the original MAC SW I recently made the switch. and I'm not going back. OSX blows Windows away once you get use to it.
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Craig, 6 Apr 2006 @ 10:54am

Mac and Windows?
Didnt mac try this years ago with softwindows for macs? If i remember right it sucked!
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Chris, 6 Apr 2006 @ 1:10pm

Re: Finally
I love how people throw around the word 'Proprietary'. Ummmm ... OSX is less 'proprietary' than Windows. Windows source and APIs are completely closed. At the same time large portions of OSX's source are available for download, I mean it's based on BSD fer christ's sake! There's nothing proprietary about Macs or PCs, they're all just integrated off the shelf chips and components.

Most of the time when people say 'proprietary' I just pretend they said 'I don't understand this'.
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Wayne B, 6 Apr 2006 @ 2:43pm

Steve Jobs: Flip-Flopper extraordinaire
Steve Jobs is an obvious flip-flopper:

Then: "PowerPC is better than that stupid Intel crap."
Now: "Mac OSuX is 30% faster on that Intel crap!"

Then: "We will never support Windows."
Now: "Here's some software to help you use Windows on our products!"

Then: "Mac OSuX is the best."
Now: "Mac OSuX is the most inconsistent OS that ever came to market! You can't even resize a window from all four corners! It can only run on one type of hardware, ours! You should be using Windows XP!"

See what I mean?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2006 @ 12:23am

Steve Jobs, {umm, ya, right}
First, you DO realize that Anonymous Coward is the name given to all posters that don't bother to register a username right?
I rarely bother to post here, this is my 3rd ever and the Dell laptop guy wasn't me So your little attempt at an ad hominem attack just makes you look dumb...

The point is that the size of PC industry has turned hardware into the cheapest commodity possible. I used to work for a company that sold PC's to business, we don't sell hardware anymore as there is NO money left in it. Software? Ya we sell plenty of that, Support? You bet! Hardware? No.

The cheap clients go to Office Max and buy boxes with XP, a 15in LCD AND printer for $350 after rebate and pay us to install the extra ram they want and still come out cheaper than an equivalent Apple machine could EVER cost. The rest of em buy the same package from Dell.

In either case, Microsoft gets it's $$ and could care less...

Why Apple would want to get into a business where 4% is considered a good profit margin is beyond me. There have been enough failed PC "manufacturers" (I am using that term loosely as most of them are just assemblers) that the lesson should be OBVIOUS to even the most insulated executives. Many of those failed companies made Cool customized PC's and STILL fell prey to the ever shrinking margins.

I stand by my assertion that I think they will make a good deal more by making OSX the new replacement for XP.

I happen to have 2 PC's and a Mac under my desk and I would gladly run OSX on all 3.

I have MANY customers that COULD use linux but don't have the confidence to make it their desktop OS.
OSX on the other hand is from a "large well established company" and would give them all the confidence they need.

The window of opportunity is open, Vista has been delayed till '07.
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