Whistleblower Explains How The NSA Tapped Ma Bell (And All Of Us)
from the all-in-the-secret-room dept
Back in January, the story came out that the EFF was suing AT&T, claiming that the company gave illegal access to the NSA of its network. Of course, plenty of people already believed that the NSA had pretty good access to the internet from a variety of places -- so the interesting thing here was both the specifics of how they did so, and the question of whether or not AT&T was violating customer rights in giving this free access. Earlier this week, the Justice Department tried to block evidence from being filed in the case -- even under seal. However, it seems like some of that information is coming out anyway, in large part thanks to a whistleblower who is explaining exactly how AT&T opened up its systems for the NSA to have pretty much unfettered access to the type of stuff you're normally supposed to get warrants to view -- and then in a much more limited manner. It's interesting to note, by the way, that the data mining technology that AT&T hooked up for the NSA came from Narus, the very same company that just sold VoIP blocking technology to the Chinese. Either way, this lawsuit is shaping up to be quite interesting, and it's likely that a lot more of this kind of information will be coming out over the course of the case -- even as the government tries to keep it quiet.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security"
"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither"
"If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin
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...what?!
As to the whistle blowers, the only thing that surprises me is that someone actually came forward. Rumors of this supposed access has been floating around for years. I'm curious as to why they came forward after all this time, or if this was new informatin for them.
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Re:
Trust the government, where are you from?
Don't forget that the government works for us and is to represent us, not sell us out. Whistleblowers are the only people keeping government/corporations honest.
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Ma Bell
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I am actually sad that more government employees don't choose to reveal the governments illegal actions when they occur.
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Re: Whistleblower
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Re:
And one more quote: "There is no external threat to your freedoms. Freedom is almost never taken away, but it has often been given away."
And those "Whistle Blowers" are the people that are making sure the freedoms which you are taking for granted (the same freedoms which are the basic foundation of this country) are not taken away without the people knowing about it. Laws were put in place to prevent the government from abusing their power. Now the government officials are abusing their powers by circumventing these laws which have proven to be extremely flexible. There was no reason for circumventing the laws, and that leaves the very likely possibility that our government intends on using the information for personal gain.
And finally, my last statement: Why don't you go live in China since you love life without your basic freedoms.
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Re: J's post
No government, especially ours, has inalienable rights to invade our privacy. Overstepping the bounds of our Constitution and Bill of Rights is impeachable; in the least measure.
Individual rights, my uninformed friend, are the only ones that matter. When they are broken in the name of national security, and it is permitted by the citizenry, and supported by the press, it is yet another giant step for mankind down the long walk to the end of all freedom. The connotative, elastic definitions of PC newspeak have produce a living horror. Our Constitution was written to guarantee our rights and to limit the government’s. That you, and so many like you, don't know or understand it ensures that we soon will not have to fear invasion by any foreign power. Our leaders invite it with their every non-action.
"The final battle will be fought by the communists, and the ex-communists."
I can imagine you asking, "What would happen without big government to take care of us?" Let me answer this way. If you search deeply inside yourself and find a goal that would bring you happiness, my way ensure your right to pursue it under your own steam, and by your own efforts, as long as it does not promote or involve physical coercion on another, and you would not need anyone else's approval, permission, or license... oh yes, they wouldn't impose a tax on it either.
Your way or mine. Choose.
P.S. I agree that our intelligence agencies need to be able to engage in all kinds of black opps. The have my full support, as long as they do it to other nations, and not to our citizens without due process of law; especially within the borders of the United States of America.
Have a nice day, while you still can buddy.
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Re: Whistleblower
It's not polite to shout(if you don't already know, using CAPS for everything is considered shouting on the net), especially since apparently you have no clue what you are shouting about. Then again, if you are a NSA spook, maybe you do....
Either way, I'll protect you J, we'll just route all of your internet traffic to my net, especially your financial info since we'll have to make sure you aren't a terrorist yourself and once we have determined you aren't a security risk, we'll begin the labotomy^H^H^H^H^H^H^H re-education. After that you can safely live your life in a 4'x6' room. I know it's cramped but all that counts is that you as an American citizen are SAFE, RIGHT!?!?! You do have to trust us J, we have our, err, your best interests in mind... I mean I told you I would protect you and wouldn't lie to you so what's stopping you?
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Re:
What if our founding fathers felt that "our government (i.e. King), right or wrong" was the noble attitude? NO AMERICA. NO CONSTITUTION. NO FREEDOM OF RELIGION, SPEECH, ASSY, etc., etc.
Thank God for those who have the courage to stand up to authoritarianism, ESPECIALLY when it is hardest and most dangerous: when it is perpetrated by YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT!!!
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We are now back to square one. Bush says that the laws passed in the past do not reflect on today's circumstances. They are out dated. But Bush has only been looking at one way to curb crime and Terrorism. And that way is to take our freedom away, and smash our Constitutional Rights.
I agree that certain things have no business in the press. But I also disagree too. If it wasn't for the whistleblowers All that power that our Congress, and President has would go to their heads, and they would run all over us, because power is great, it's a head rush and in the past they proved that it could get out of hand, plus they could run over us. They abused their power in the past, it can happen again, and seems to be happening again.
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Re: to WeeBit
Also, if anybody still thinks FISA just gets in the government's way of tracking down terrorists, look at the numbers of warrants denied by the FISA court. As I recall, out of thousands upon thousands of warrants recieved, FISA court only denied 4 throughout the history of the law.
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RE: SadisticFreek
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Re: RE: SadisticFreek
I mean, the people have the right to know when their civil liberties are being infringed upon, and the sooner the better.
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion." - Thomas Jefferson
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Warning Signs
I'm waiting for the day when they call for a volunteer whistleblower service made up of ordinary citizens who will watch and listen for any possibly disloyal or un-American comments others people. It is coming and anyone who says otherwise is living in a fantasy world. Our Democracy is dying from the inside and the sad thing is nobody but a few people (myself included) realizes its happening.
So, you all have a choice, stand up and put a stop to it now or wait until its too late and risk torture and death when the inneviable 2nd American Civil War breaks out.
I'm calling for a "Revolution of Words and Votes", fight back with words and in the voting booths of America. Elect the current Congresss out-of-office and demand the immediate IMPEACHMENT of President George W. Bush, make demands of your Senators and Representatives to do what is right for YOU and to ignore the lobbyist minority who want the laws changed so they have things their way.
This country is BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE and we need to make them remember what that really means.
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Re: Warning Signs
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Re: Re: J's post
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Leno said it best
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Re: J's second post
Who do you tell? The head of the NSA who is in on it already? The President who supports their actions and wishes they did more? Congress, the people who voted this Patriot Act crap into "law" in the first place? Oh, I know, you tell tech support at AT&freakin'-T cause they'll tell you that they'll get something done about that, right? When you deal with agencies that have incredible amounts of "hush power" over the entire government and the government's subjects(we're subjects to a "king" at this point especially the way you're looking at it so just bow to W and be done with it), you have no chance of getting anything done about it if you tell them because of that hush power AND because once they know that you know, if the news breaks you get blamed regardless.
Ever heard of Watergate? "Deep Throat" was in the same situation overall and thankfully brought down Nixon's regime pretty quickly. Let's hope this is along the same lines.
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Re: J's second post
And just what do you think the "proper channels" are when you're talking about the ***National Security Agency***?!!?!?!?!?!
Who do you tell? The head of the NSA who is in on it already? The President who supports their actions and wishes they did more? Congress, the people who voted this Patriot Act crap into "law" in the first place? Oh, I know, you tell tech support at AT&freakin'-T cause they'll tell you that they'll get something done about that, right? When you deal with agencies that have incredible amounts of "hush power" over the entire government and the government's subjects(we're subjects to a "king" at this point especially the way you're looking at it so just bow to W and be done with it), you have no chance of getting anything done about it if you tell them because of that hush power AND because once they know that you know, if the news breaks you get blamed regardless.
Ever heard of Watergate? "Deep Throat" was in the same situation overall and thankfully brought down Nixon's regime pretty quickly. Let's hope this is along the same lines.
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Re:
"BY DEFINITION HE/SHE IS NOT A WHISTLE BLOWER."
Here's the definition, clueless...
Whistleblower: an informant who exposes wrongdoing within an organization in the hope of stopping it.
Now stop trying to act like you're on-up on us, your gnit-picking isn't gonna work here.
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I've been there
You see....my father lived through the dark years following World War II, when Sen. Joseph McCarthy's Committee On Unamerican Activities was engaged in a witch-hunt to purge every communist from this land of ours. Many honest folk were harassed, imprisoned, and had their lives ruined. Then into the 1960's it began to be known just how extensive and broad the FBI's survelliance of Americans was in the name of "national security" while J. Edgar Hoover was the Director. And then Pres. Lyndon B. Johnson invented the euphemism of "credibility gap" when his administration got caught in numerous lies used to gain citizens' support for U.S. policy that escalated the Vietnam war. I have lived to see Nixon's resignation following Watergate, followed by the Iran-Contra scandal under Pres. Reagan. Next, the first Bush convinced America it was a noble cause to liberate Kuwait from Hussein in a war that many still believe to this day was more about U.S. oil interests. And then Bill Clinton's adminstration was discovered to have strong ties with the communist Chinese through North Vietnam and evidence suggests China was given business and policy favors in return for campaign funds donated through dummy corporations here on our soil. Now we have the new Bush administration, who have very obviously been caught in countless lies to justify not only the occupation of Iraq, but to pass laws and make policies that have made a mockery of what our forefathers gave birth to in this great land and generations have paid for dearly in blood to preserve. It is a fact of history that all goverments become despotic over time. Thomas Jefferson said that and it was he that made sure our Constitution has a clause in it that makes it permissible and legal for the citizens to rise up in revolution to ensure their freedom if need be and start over fresh. So why is it that these politicians have abused their power and grow more outrageous with those abuses and lies with every year that passes? Why has the current President used fear to sell his own grab for money and power? The answer is quite simple...We The People have sat back on our apathetic collective ass and allowed it. Sure...we'll complain and argue about it amongst ourselves....even write comments like this online and in blogs. But not a damn one of us will actually DO anything about it! If you want to impeach those responsible, you have to organize and then hit the streets to rally support and gather signatures on petitions. Once you have enough to mandate a national vote by the citizenry for impeachment, Congress is bound by law to follow through with it. We need to stop electing these spoiled children of rich corporate fat cats and ex-politicians, these over-educated, over-priced lawyers. We need to elect statesman once again, those great men that led the country not for profit, but for ideals. Too many Special Interest Groups and Coporate Lobbys have bought and paid for our goverment. We should abolish them as well. If you want your freedom, you have to work for it, not spout historical quotes you have no real appreciation for. Many have sacrificed everything they have, their fortunes, even their lives for the sake of liberty. "Freedom is a right that is earned in blood.". Go look that one up. Unfortunately, nobody wants to be bothered with any of it and so we have surrendered ourselves completely to the wills and whims of wealthy men who have no regard for anyone but themselves. We have entrusted our country to fools and put our very lives in their hands. Thus we have made fools of ourselves.
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Re: I've been there
i have my collection, high cap mags, waiting to stand and fight!
the governtment has gotten too big and pompass and the presedecny has turned into a monarchy once again...
btw uncle nuke, saved ur post, awesome!
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Re: I've been there
There are structural defects in the government that were foreseen by the founding fathers but corruption
and the loathing of politicians to touch a hot issue have
broken the safe guards. For example, there is a strict
separation between the branches of government. No
lawyer should ever hold a legislative position. Check the
constitution on that if you doubt me. You can't take an
oath to two masters and serve both without impairment
Your inalienable right to protection from unreasonable
search and seizure is creator endowed. Which is why
it's inalienable. If your rights are at the whim of the
state (or the U.N.) they may be given or taken away
as the they see fit. It's a pretty good firewall, use it.
Even if you're an atheist! By the way... define
unreasonable?
Joe McCarthy had many faults. But he was not totally
wrong. The case of Elia Kazan is a telling one. I think
he misidentified the threat. Capitalism and Communism,
for the most part, are played against one another by
the ruling oligarchies. I guess you can call them the
globalists... I'm not sure.
I lived through the cold war but the greatest shock was
discovering that everything I was taught in school about
how the government operates is B.S..
Frankly, I don't care if the NSA listens in on international
conversations terminating in Pakistan or Afghanistan.
This seems reasonable to me given their mission. I know
my mail to Czechoslovakia in the 60's was opened, it
was expected. Abe Lincoln said it best, the constitution
is not a suicide pact.
Enough already... people's minds are made up, they
believe what they want to believe. Much of the furor
is generated by a knee-jerk reaction to President Bush
and anything he is involved in. I haven't liked a president
since Eisenhowe excepting Ronnie. But the polarization
between democrats and republicans right now is
insane... neither candidate was any prize package.
What do I know, I'm just an old independent, ranting.
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The TIPS program wasn't close enough?
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