Why Aren't People Complaining About New Data Retention Plans?

Google Claims IE's Searchbar Is Uncompetitive

from the this-could-backfire dept

Mon, May 1st 2006 9:01am — Joseph Weisenthal

Although Google is trouncing Microsoft in the search wars, they're using every option to go after their rival. The company has been talking to the Justice Department about the fact that Microsoft's forthcoming IE7 will have a searchbox pointing to MSN. They claim that this move is similar to other actions by the company, which got them into trouble in the past. This argument seems flawed for several reasons. It's very easy for the consumer to switch browsers, unlike operating systems. The rapid growth of Firefox proves that the company has no monopoly when it comes to browsers. Even within IE, it will be easy to add the Google toolbar or go to Google.com in the address bar. There's also the fact that Google has signed deals with Firefox and Opera to be the anchor tenant of their searchbars. By getting into bed with the government in going after a distant rival, the company is probably making a strategic mistake. Like Netflix's suit against Blockbuster, they may legitimize MSN search, to both consumers and analysts. More importantly, a company with the market position that Google has is bound to regret any move that expands the scope of antitrust case law. Would anyone be surprised if at some point the government investigates Google's "bundling" of search and email? Google's doing a great job competing with Microsoft; it's hard to see what they have to gain by getting the government more involved in their battles.

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43 Comments

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Anonymous, 1 May 2006 @ 10:42am

Your wrong
Microsoft bundles Internet Explorer with their operating system, found by court to be a monopoly, and has the vast majority of browser market share, surely also a monopoly with around 75% penetration. They are now illegally tying their browser to their search engine.

Google has a strong case, although the Bush DOJ couldn't give a rat's ass about the law.
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Searcher619, 1 May 2006 @ 10:46am

Oh get real
Google is the best search engine out there. MS search sucks everyine knows this. If you make a good product everyone uses (google) then MS's search is not much of a threat. When I setup a PC I always add the google search bar. Why? Cuz it's the best out there. Come on people.....
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jdw242, 1 May 2006 @ 10:49am

uh, who's wrong?
I suppose that's why you posted your half-truths on this forum as anonymous?

Yes, IE is bundled; no they have never been called a monopoly by any court (submit proof if you have it); that market share is calculated based on usage, and most users don't know how to upgrade to a real browser; once again, the only way MS could be a monopoly is if they had no competition for the PC market - last time I checked there were enough Linux distros to start a basketball team, and then some which constitutes competition; they have always set their products to point to their website. to do otherwise would be idiocy, and without the expierience of being the CEO of MS you cannot argue otherwise.
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garfalk, 1 May 2006 @ 10:51am

i use firefox so i don't really care. i use google every day, and i only use msn if i want something with information from encarta. which sucks. also msn's front page is drowning in stuff that you don't want to see. google's is nice and clean, and their homepage service is better then my.msn.com for a variety of reasons. so i don't see why google cares.
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Bermuda221, 1 May 2006 @ 10:53am

gOOGLE in firefox
I use the Firefox browser and you don't hear MS bitching about google being the default search engine and homepage in it. Granted, they don't have nearly the market share that M$ does. At the same time, they're gaining popularity. The firefox list includes most everything except MS. at least by default, I know you can add some engines to it but not sure how many.
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Dave, 1 May 2006 @ 10:59am

Case looks weak to me.
Based on its recent actions, Google clearly would like to become the "searching method" for every Firefox browser. Exactly how does that differ from what MS would like to do? I suppose somebody can find some technical minutiae or legal hair-splitting that would differentiate them, but the general principle is the same.

Google is not stupid; they must already know this, so I assume they have legal fine print supporting their case, but it really looks asinine from where I'm sitting.

I definitely favor Google over Microsoft, but it's not without some mixed feelings. As Google has gained power, they have striven for less accountability, and deep down I think they'd love to be a monopoly themselves, just one that's well-covered legally.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2006 @ 11:03am

If you prefer to use a single microsoft product, what is wrong with using the entire microsoft suite? ...if that is what you choose to do?

And to those who argue this case, then which search engine should microsoft point to? ...since obviously they will be pointing to some search engine.
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Travis, 1 May 2006 @ 11:11am

Google the pot?
Is Google not the one now bundling every major piece of their search suite on Dell computers? (just bought a new dell, know this is true) Does this mean that Dell is being anti-competitive by not bundling every other search engine's software on their PCs?
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Posterlogo, 1 May 2006 @ 11:12am

Re: Your wrong
First of all, learn some english. It's "You're", not "your". Second, someone who doesn't like Microshit or Microshit's products should take their money elsewhere, not use them and then sue the makers. I have never thought bundling was "monopolizing." Most people appreciated the added integration, ease, and value. I don't. So I download my own damn favorite browser. More and more, people want the government or some other power to step in and tell them what to do for their own good. I'd rather decide for myself.
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Matt, 1 May 2006 @ 11:22am

All of this talk about monopolies and bundling just drives me nuts. It's the same case over and over again. Get a better product, and steal the customer base. If these cases start taking off I'm going to write a new calculator program and sue MS for putting me out of business. It'll cost $99, and I'm going to sue them for $99x(number of windows sold), because as we all know, if MS hadn't bundled it, I'm positive that they would have bought my software. It's ridiculous, you don't see Adobe screaming because of Paint, it's the same deal.

More related to this article though, I think this is a huge mistake for Google. I love the Google search, I think it works great. GMail is awesome. But the biggest asset they have is their name. They're Google, everyone wants google, google good, MS bad. This move puts them into this whole whiner category, it takes from there name; that's never good.
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Jon, 1 May 2006 @ 11:24am

The Average Idiot
There's STILL the average computer user who just searches on whatever website comes up as their homepage. For years my family searched on Excite or whatever subpar search engine Comcast/ATT set our homepage to. Those are the people Google knows they'll miss out on, not all of the people familiar with switching to Mozilla or installing the Google bar.

I agree with Techdirt that Google and MS both fight dirty, though. So if Google want's the referees to call the game consistantly, then they can't bitch when MS uses some of the same tactics that they do (ie. Google's bundling of software and deals w/ Opera, Firefox)
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2006 @ 11:27am

Boohoo Google. I just think this has got to be the stupidest lawsuit of all. This makes no sense to me, and if Google continues these stupid ass practices they are gonna start to lose people. People seem to forget that thanks to MS these people are able to make money. Otherwise they'd be under Linux fighting their way up the ladder. Once again go after the Giant cause he's got lots of beans.
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Red, 1 May 2006 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Your wrong
"First of all, learn some english. It's "You're", not "your". "

Um, do you feel smarter or better for yourself now? Seriously, that was a useless comment, grow up.

(Yeah, this is a useless comment too)
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Lauren, 1 May 2006 @ 11:36am

MS has been ruled a monopoly
FYI: From the Findings of Fact at

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

34. Viewed together, three main facts indicate that Microsoft enjoys monopoly power. First, Microsoft’s share of the market for Intel-compatible PC operating systems is extremely large and stable. Second, Microsoft’s dominant market share is protected by a high barrier to
entry. Third, and largely as a result of that barrier, Microsoft’s customers lack a commercially viable alternative to Windows.
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Jonathan Myers, 1 May 2006 @ 11:44am

Re: MS has been ruled a monopoly
Which has been over-turned...
Monopoly = BS... People buys from them and grows in size and people whine about them being too big = stupid cause they can always still buy other products and so on forth...
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Alpharocker, 1 May 2006 @ 11:52am

Yahoo search tool in Firefox
WTF?!?! I didn't install a Yahoo search tool in my firefox. Must have already been there when I installed Firefox. Meaning that I, therefore, have the option to use something other than Google. It just takes a click.
Options are already installed.
Unlike IE7.

"Otherwise they'd be under Linux fighting their way up the ladder. "
Who would?
Google? Why?

"I just think this has got to be the stupidest lawsuit of all."
Why? Alot of people bitch about lawsuits, and how ridiculous they are. Some of these people are forgetting that a lawsuit is the door through which a citizen (a corporation, or individual) accesses the legal process.

If someone thinks someone is doing something wrong, they press charges if the matter is criminal; or sue if the matter is not. This is how things were designed.
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Alpharocker, 1 May 2006 @ 11:55am

Re: Re: MS has been ruled a monopoly
"Which has been over-turned... "
Cite a source, Jonathon.

In English, preferably.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2006 @ 11:57am

Re: Yahoo search tool in Firefox
Sure.
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Topher3105, 1 May 2006 @ 12:07pm

Pot calling Kettle black
Look, MS deserves most of the crap they get because of their questionable business "ethics" in the past, but I tire of these double standards.

Guess what. Google is the default search engine for FireFox, Safari, Opera, and a slew of desktop and browser toolbars.

Is Microsoft crying over Google being the defactor search engine in all these cases?

No, instead, microsoft is promoting their Own search technology in their OWN browser for their Own OS. I mean, to put it to Google another way, if you HAD your own Browser and HAD your own OS, would you ensure that people could select MSN as their default search engine too? F*ck no! You would ensure that its Google tools and technology for every freaking search, mail, spell checker feature in that bastard OS.

Yes, Google does dominate the search engine arena, but that is ONLY because they are guilty of the same anti-competitive practices that Microsoft has done in the past. Firefox did not ask my which search engine I want to use, it Defaulted to Google, so too did Safari and Opera. Google is forming relationships with anybody that will sleep with them, and that is a very long list.

IE7 WILL allow you to select Google in a simply options panel, change it once, and forget about it JUST LIKE FIREFOX AND SAFARI AND OPERA, etc. Why does everybody bitch when its an MS feature but the SAME thing happens with every other OS and browser.

So, get over it, period! Most of you won't even use IE7 when it comes out, you will stick with Firefox and stick with Google because that was the default search engine that Firefox set up.
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Murf, 1 May 2006 @ 12:07pm

Gee, I had no problems...
I installled the IE 7 Beta 2 a few days ago. It automatically picked up the fact that I had set Google to be my default search engine in IE 6 and it retained the setting. The search box in IE 7 now works just fine with Google with no further configuration from me. Even if I hadn't had Google already set up, it's very easy to select additional search providers in IE 7 and change the default...and yes, Google is listed by Microsoft as one of the available web search providers.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2006 @ 12:08pm

Amen, well f* said
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Buzz, 1 May 2006 @ 12:08pm

RE: Matt's comments
I agree with Matt. I have the utmost respect for Google, but it does seem semi-childish to make this attack. I personally would be 100% okay with Google having a monopoly on everything. Provided they kept their simplicity and idealistic views the computing world would only improve. Microsoft has lots of money, but they have no wonderfully amazing ideas anymore. It seems like everything they put out nowadays is just another piece of spyware for them to keep tabs on their users. :(
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2006 @ 12:09pm

The problem with nerds these days is they are just like Republicans. They follow the herd without having their own opinion. And flame this all you want!
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PotKettleBlack, 1 May 2006 @ 12:19pm

Google = IE autosearch hijackers = hypocrites
Google is undeniably hypocritical here given that the Google IE Toolbar *HIJACKS* IE autosearch (in the name of the Browse-By-Name "feature" which would more accurately called the "Autosearch Hijacking" feature). IE has an open mechanism for changing the autosearch provider, and Google *shuts down* this mechanism: the user can not change their autosearch provider once GTB is installed. Google is far more egregious in this care than MS has ever been.
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Frank, 1 May 2006 @ 12:47pm

IE7 - End of Google's Reign
MSN search is the clear leader and returns more timely and relevant results. I switched from using Google as my search provider months ago.

I will enjoy seeing google loose market share :>
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i4c, 1 May 2006 @ 1:19pm

cmon
unless Microsoft or Google start to pump or refine oil they aren't going to do sheeyot.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 May 2006 @ 3:39pm

Re: Google = IE autosearch hijackers = hypocrites
you are wrong! Had GTB for ages, and MSN came up everytime i spelled a site wrong
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PotKettleBlack, 1 May 2006 @ 3:51pm

Re: Re: Google = IE autosearch hijackers = hypocri
Did you have Browse-by-Name (i.e. Autosearch Hijacking) enabled? I think that they did not use to enable it by default, they do now.
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Max Howell, 2 May 2006 @ 3:54am

Good Products Don't Always Win
Hyrodogen Fuel Cells are better than petrol engines in terms of efficiency, pollution, cost to product, noise, etc. They've been around since 1950 yet they never replaced the petrol engine.

Sometimes things have too much momentum to be displaced. Here IE has too much momentum to not have a negative effect on Google if they don't offer the user a choice on first run.

Seems to me the techdirt summary is missing some points.

PS I know Fuel Cells have other issues, like hydrogen storage, and production of storage, but some basic research 60 years ago could have addressed these problems a long time ago by now.
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Max Howell, 2 May 2006 @ 3:59am

Re:
> Thanks to MS these people are able to make money.

This kind of comment blindly assumes that without MS there wouldn't be a computing industry. Which is kinda stupid an assumption. Without MS we'd have been a bit behind 10 years ago, but since then, the increased competition of an industry without a single vendor would have made the whole industry richer as a whole. All we owe MS is thanks for making the computing industry boring and stagnant for the last decade.
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Max Howell, 2 May 2006 @ 4:07am

Re: Pot calling Kettle black
> I tire of these double standards.

If you can't see how it is an unfair business advantage for MS to promote their own products using their unfairly aquired market share then I despair for you.

In fact I'd still be on Google's side here if MS had fairly aquired their browser market share. There has to be limits on what super-huge comanies can do so the smaller players can get in on the action. Yes Google is not a small player, but it is a specialist provider. MS want to have fingers in every pie, and such a homogeny of technology solutions will not benefit the IT industry or its consumers.

Yes I will be wanting google to stop being the default on Opera and Firefox (without an explicit dialog asking for choice) when their market share exceeds IE's too.

WTF is with people? This is easy to think about, it's a matter of everything in sensible moderation.
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anand, 2 May 2006 @ 10:04pm

Re: MS has been ruled a monopoly
i wonder what microsoft has to do "for the lack of commercially viable alternatives to windows". Should they stop making OS?? Probably the justice dept. should ask the question "do we have a viable superpower to US" !!!
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Russ, 5 May 2006 @ 8:43am

Re: Case looks weak to me.
Two major differences.

First, MS has been found a Monopoly which acknowledges that they have an unfair advantage in bundling features to their OS.

Second, Google pays for the placement in FF, MS won't pay for placement in IE.

MS is relying on human nature, if it is good enough, then they won't change. And this is all about the money, not better search.

It will be interesting to see how difficult it will be to change default search engines.
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rochette, 21 May 2006 @ 3:11pm

Google's IE7 Browser Complaint
Google's IE7 Browser Complaint

Find more providers...

The issue is a search box built into the new ie7 browser, which enables users to search without opening a search engine directly in the browser. The function is already available as a plug-in for existing browsers. For instance, the Google toolbar will modify Firefox browsers to enable Google to be accessed in a single click.Ability to change the search providers default setting could create another wars, with ie7 search providers working on partnerships with the Dells and HPs to convince them to ship machines with the search box set to their site. IE7 users can easily add or remove providers from http://ieproviders.com/ or http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/searchguide/default_new.mspx.
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Whocares, 25 Jun 2006 @ 9:25pm

Whatever
Come on you techie freaks...Who gives a rats shizass about this...if you like freakin google use it...if you like MS use that! Republican Democrat Ford Dodge Chevy...its all a matter of free choice...and if you cant figure out how to side step a few of the simple corporate land mines then you better stop using your computer, because your probably just spreading viruses and spyware.
People are so intense about the dumbest stuff sometmes!!!
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dkdkdk, 24 Jul 2006 @ 4:33am

dddk
You freaking Google Loving idiots!!!!!!!!! Its so damn easy for you to change the default and add search engines!!!!!!!!!! And you get to leave feedback!!!!! I have the beta 3, i have no problems...
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John Billog, 5 Jan 2007 @ 7:10pm

Use Logic, not quick Emotion
Russ said, "Google pays for the placement in FF, MS won't pay for placement in IE."

There is no logic whatsoever in that statement. Who will MS pay for the placement in IE? Of course, the proprietor of IE: Microsoft. The idea of Microsoft paying Microsoft is as ridiculous as you owing yourself money.

And to the person who said MS is trying to dip its fingers in everything technological? What about computer hardware hardware? Google is holding a double standard and doing the same: building a monopoly. I know that because I use Google's search engine blindly because it is Firefox's default, not because it is a superior product. Yahoo! and Windows Live Search are just as good as Google.

Those who bash Microsoft for everything it does without looking at logic need to wake up. It's just like those conservatives who believe in the freedom to give what you want to whoever you want but then hypocritically yell (although, they are entitled to) at Bill Gates for relying on affirmative action (no, I don't support affirmative action, but Gates should be allowed any form of discrimination he wants in giving to whoever he wants) to give away money in his charities (yes a bit off-topic, but an clear example of hypocrisy).
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eXilius, 12 Jan 2007 @ 1:02pm

Re: Your wrong
This is the first time I ever felt like posting.
You group people into arbitrary, limiting, and illusionary groups that can in no way be representative of the whole. Your *apparent* self identification with "non-bush" or "non-microsoft" is dependent upon the existence of these two negated entities in question. However, I fail to see any insight or out-sight gained from your post. So I ask, what is the use of your time and ours in such a non-responsive action?

Condition yourself more, perhaps....
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Jan 2007 @ 1:07pm

Re:
LOL!
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m singh, 12 Feb 2007 @ 7:37am

Re: Re:
yeah I don't really think this is right. these two corporations are wrestling like small kids, and their actions to create monoply are disgusting. Have you ever seen Texas or nationa semiconductiors slug at ech other like this. Perhaps this is what I.T. is all about. http://www.searchbox.mobi
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karam, 19 Jun 2007 @ 11:02pm

slugging
Yes this is almost correct, these two giants do fight like small childern, but this is the necessity of both the times, age and business. I.T. is too quick, almost a death wish, and people who do not claw will be the first ones to go. so business wrestling will stay. http://www.rackeys.com
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hs, 12 Dec 2007 @ 5:42am

google
well, big guys will always have trouble from the other big guys. They slah at each other's domains, and cry with every hurt, but if they encounter small guys, they crush them with combined force. Evry squeak they utter is good for the globe though.
hs
http://www.domaincile.com
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bb, 9 Aug 2008 @ 12:36am

easy fight
this is easy fight for these two, but small players might get crushed when these big giants wrestle and squeeze. On the other hand, it also opens an oppertunity for smaller bits. When dinosaurs perish, the turtles stay flaoting http://www.bbservice.in
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