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How Banks Make The Bogus Check Scam So Easy

Scams

from the no-one-takes-the-blame dept

Thu, Jun 1st 2006 3:02am — Mike Masnick
It's been many years since we first heard about the now popular variation on the typical Nigerian 419 scam. It involved sending someone a large check, often after winning a big ticket item in an online auction. The check would be for much more than the winning bid, and the sender would make some excuse and simply ask the seller to send back the difference after the check cleared. This works because banks are required to clear checks quickly -- and most people assume that once a check "clears" that means it's valid. So they send off thousands of dollars, only to discover a few days later that the check was a fake. That means they not only don't have the money for whatever they sold, but they're also out the extra thousands they sent the scammer. The victims in such scams often are suspicious, but because many banks tell them the check is fine after it's cleared, they feel they're safe. In one case, a few years ago, we even wrote about a lawsuit between a bank and a scam victim over this issue. However, it's amazing that it's taken this long for people to start questioning why banks continue to tell people checks are okay after they've cleared -- and why they don't do more to protect people from such scams. The banks blame the law, noting that they're required to make the money available before they can actually verify the legitimacy of the check -- but it would seem like banks could do a much better job reminding people that the checks may not be legitimate even after they've cleared.
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  • identicon
    WootForBaddies!, 1 Jun 2006 @ 3:14am

    hehe

    What an awesome tactic, I might give that one a go :)


    Frist post?? ^.^

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Hunka Hunka, 1 Jun 2006 @ 3:57am

    Banks

    Is always been the rule: You make a mistake and you pay, the bank makes a mistake and you pay.
    Either way its going to be on you.....

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2006 @ 4:53am

    Banks suck. Mine nailed me for an overdraft, $32, no biggie. Then they charged me a $4.50 fee the next day for that overdraft, which because I had $4.30 in the account, bounced, causing another overdraft, the next day, with a negative balance I got charged another $4.50 fee. So two days after this happens I check my bank to find I am over $100 in the hole.

    Lets just say I spend my lunch hour on the phone with the bank today and should I still have to pay those fees, my account gets closed...

    To think, they almost had a college loan out of me for next springs semester...

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      WootForBaddies!, 1 Jun 2006 @ 5:00am

      Re:

      In the UK, banks can be rather flexable. If you lose money from unlawful activies, in the most cases the governement will fork the loses. As is the case with the card fraud boom over here right now. A petrol station not far from here had its staff repositioning cameras to point at cash machines. 4 of my friends on one night out went to that machine and had within 3 weeks spent nearly £10,000 in and around europe between them. The banks and government, in a blind attempt to stop it from hitting the press (so hard), I guess, refunded the amount to their accounts within a week. Being univercity students you wouldn't expect the governement to make them suffer, as we are leaching off them any'a'wayz. LOL

      That petrol stations staff have all but disapeared since the place was shut down.

      Back on topic: I still think this would be a good idea. I might give it a go with a small amount :)

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:23am

      Re:

      Bank of America did something like that to me. I wrote a check to exactly close an account (in another state) and wrote "close account" on the check (which was exactly what another bank had told me to do).

      Bank of America zeroed out the account, then because the account was less than $500 (or something) they charged me a small amount in "service fees". However, since my account was then overdrawn, they charged me an overdraft fee. And sent me a nice page of paper explaining how to balance a checkbook. A couple of weeks later I got a threatening letter that said they'd turn my info over to some loansharks (ok, a legal corporation) who would make it impossible for me to get a bank account anywhere and who would charge me $350 for the privilege.

      It took about three hours on the phone to fix that (I should have charged them for my time, but then they'd charge me for their time and so on) and I thought the account was closed. But no, somehow the account ended up with a small balance that they promptly charged me a service fee on and while its not overdrawn quite yet, I know its coming.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      DrFurst, 4 Jun 2006 @ 10:57am

      Re:

      yep, in this country, the penalty for not having money is steep!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2006 @ 5:31am

    Big Banking Is Robbery

    Interesting. I had a situation about 4 years ago where I was layed off. I was given a payroll check somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000 written on a BofA account. At the time I banked at Centura. Centura said they could not cash the check and would have to hold it for 3-5 days while it cleared before the funds would be available.

    BofA also wouldn't cash the check even though it was written on their bank. Of course they would charge you $5 to cash any check but wouldn't cash one for that amount.

    Wachovia will cash a check written on their bank with a thumbprint and won't charge you anything.

    After closing a checking account I had with Centura I had an automatic bill payment clear which Centura paid then charged me a penalty for. They sent me a nice nasty letter to inform me. When I called, they couldn't take a payment by phone so I had to go into the branch. When I went in, the only funds I had were in a check I had recieved for some work I had done. They wouldn't cash the check so I could pay the account off and finalize everything and were pretty nasty to me for even suggesting the idea.

    Needless to say, my credit union is my best friend now. I walk in, deposit a check, go home and check my account online 5 minutes later and the money is there to do whatever I want to with. No problem cashing checks and 4 points better for my car loan than any bank. No fee checking with no balance limit. The big banks can kiss my butt.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Road, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:02am

    A friend of mine

    This is funny. About 4 months ago a friend of mine was trying to rent out his apartment. Well I guess some cute girl from Germany emailed him back asking about the apartment saying she's moving to the States and wants to make some new friends. She sends him some pictures and begins emailing him almost daily. She then says she's going to rent the room out. She sends a check and tellls my buddy that her parents gave it to her blah blah blah she needs a money order so she can get her plane ticket or something, he see's the check clear. The money shows up in his bank of america account he thinks it's good. So he sends over the money order thinks he's getting a new roomate and bam he's out some amount of money. I believe it was a few thousand. The part he flipped about is that the money was showen in his account vi the bank of america webpage and he even waited a day or to before he sent her the money.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Sanjay, 11 Jan 2008 @ 12:49pm

      Re: A friend of mine

      Any Cheque deposit clearance is ( even though banks would put the fund to the account in standard time 3 -5 days )subject to actual clearance of the fund from the drawers account which may take more time depending on the drawer's bank and country etc .

      This loophole has been utilised so many times by fraudstars that many a bank has come out to a solution by making available 5 - 10 % of the cheque amount and notifying the account holder about the proceedings that it would make the funds on hold to a certain time .

      I think this a a good workaround .. although it makes the life a little difficult when u require funds fast but get a hold of 10 -15 days of more . Thats a cost to save from fraud .. usually the account holder pays off .

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      D. S., 21 Jul 2009 @ 8:57am

      Re: A friend of mine

      The same thing happened to us! We are trying our best to fight it, but they say we have to pay. I can't believe it!

      What did he do to?

      We filed a complaint with interpol and the Attorney General. Because of the law loophole, we are being held liable. I went to my Representative and, at the moment, I am gathering information so I can write to Barney Frank and the Finance Committee.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:54am

      Re: A friend of mine

      so what did he do cause i have the same problem.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      tara, 21 Jul 2013 @ 4:08pm

      Re: A friend of mine

      What happend to your friend

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Janet Curtis, 9 Dec 2016 @ 3:33pm

      Re: Re: A friend of mine

      what how do u get money from a card without a pin number?!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Alton, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:07am

    banks

    In reply to #3, get an account at a local credit union. The credit unions I deal with seem to actually appreciate and respect their customers.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      sans, 21 Apr 2008 @ 7:30pm

      Re: banks

      credit unions are the worse offenders!!!! i want to know if someone can help me to help someone out. my sister, the crooked little bitch, deposited a $4000 check into her credit union account in california. well, my mother's name is attached to her account in case of emergency and what the credit union did, they cashed the check!!!! now, they have frozen my mother's account and told her that she is responsible for payment of the check if my sister does not pay. my mother is on social security and get a retired check from the school board. the bank told her that her social security will not be touched but her retirement is theirs until the debt is paid. I want to put this little bitch in jail!!! my mother is just sweeping it under the rug and I am not having it....I cannot let this happen!!!! do you or anyone know what I can do or who I can contact because the credit union is making my mother pay for this idiotic act on my sister's part and their teller's part.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Kaykay, 30 Aug 2016 @ 1:10pm

      Re: banks

      @ #3 reply
      Wrong credit unions are just as bad
      Someone deposited a chec by lectronic
      IN to my account is onto know this person never did
      My credit union NEVER HELD CHECK TO MAKE SURE IT CLEARED
      THEY MADE THE FUNDS AVAILABLE
      THEY NEVER WARNED ME ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A SCAM
      THEY ALLOWED ME TO WITHDRAW THEN THEY HELD MY SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK AS RANSOM FORCING ME TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT UNDER STRESS AS TO PAYING BACK THE CREDIT UNION (MASS BAY CREDIT UNION)
      MY QUESTION IS WHERE IS MY SAFETY AND SECURITY IN DOING BUSINESS AS A CLIENT WITH SUCH ?
      IS IT NOT THE CREDIT UNION / BANKS TO WATCH OUT FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS ?
      THEY MUST Benter F.D.I.C PROTECTED RIGHT OR AT LEAST MY ACCOUNT SHOULD HAVE BEEN

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Wolfger, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:09am

    Aren't banks insured?

    So shouldn't the bank eat the loss and claim the insurance? I'm betting that if the law required banks/insurance to eat the loss from these bogus checks, we'd see a lot more being done to prosecute!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Shine, 22 Sep 2007 @ 9:50pm

      Re: Aren't banks insured?

      Yes, banks are insured. But the catch is, when the bank claims the insurance and gets its money back the insurance company for the bank then comes after you to get their money back plus fees.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      nancy, 30 Mar 2009 @ 7:02pm

      Re: Aren't banks insured?

      wolfger this is true they have fdic so why dont they give you the money back they are at faultr beacuse they should call the bank to verify the account and funds i was told the account was good and so were the funds then find out that account was closed in 12/08 so who is to blkame the bank holding the check or mine im still trying to get this money back the banks were very unprofessional;

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Brad, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:18am

    You people that write these articles think you have the answer to everything. When in fact, you have so few answers to anything that you have a career writing stories for Techdirt. If you want to make a real difference, call up Bank of America and talk to one of the directors and share your thoughts. They'll probable laugh at you too.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Brad Martin, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:19am

    You people that write these articles think you have the answer to everything. When in fact, you have so few answers to anything that you have a career writing stories for Techdirt. If you want to make a real difference, call up Bank of America and talk to one of the directors and share your thoughts. They'll probable laugh at you too.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:29am

      Re:

      Haha, you must work at a bank.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Ben, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:05am

      How much did they pay you?

      Just cause a bank laughs at you doesnt mean that the tech dirt guys are wrong. Just means they still know how to screw people to get there money.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    MW Harris, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:41am

    How ironic that Brad's initials stand for B.M

    I suspect that you're right about ole' Bradley,... he can't even post an email without doing it twice. :)

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Brad Martin, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:32am

      Re: How ironic that Brad's initials stand for B.M

      I don't work for a bank. I'm the Director of Technology for a privet school and have held the same title at some cooperate operations, never worked for a bank.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Phil, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:44am

        Re: Re: How ironic that Brad's initials stand for

        >> I'm the Director of Technology for a privet school

        Do they teach spelling there?

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Oliver Wendell Jones, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:45am

        Re: Re: How ironic that Brad's initials stand for

        Must be one heck of a school if they teach you to spell 'private' like that...

        Unless perhaps you work for a school that specializes in plants of the genus Ligustrum which are commonly used for hedges?

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Phil, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:41am

    Bank delays

    This isn't all that new. Someone stole and forged a check on my account 12 years ago. When I discovered it a few days later, I went to the bank to straighten it out. They said they had to return the check to the originating bank and see if the funds were available there to cover it (before they would give my money back). When I asked how long that would take, they said the originating bank had up to 30 days to respond. 30 days?

    Man, when I bounce a check, it bounces instantly. How come it takes thirty days for a bank to cover themselves?

    (End of the story: I told them they had to put the money back in my account now because it was their liability and I was moving that week. They refused. I called an attorney. He told me the five magic words. I called the bank back and said my attorney told me that they had to put the money back in my account now. They did.)

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    MW Harris, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:43am

    How ironic that Brad's initials stand for B.M

    I suspect that you're right about ole' Bradley,... he can't even post an email without doing it twice. :)

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    a concerned listener, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:46am

    checks

    tellers don't even bother to look at signature cards anymore...there is nothing easy than to deposit a forged check into one's account.

    even a series of forged checks that, if credit crad purchases, the bank's fraud unit would be onto, and calling up the customer (which are almost always legitimate purchases..)

    and then banks have the aduacity to not reimburse, unless the victim takes criminal action against the perpetrator. even tho it was basically the banks' fault all along.

    AND finally, banks will NOT even attest that the instrument was forged before the victim takes criminal action, leaving the victim open to accusations of false testimony..


    it's an utter disgrace..

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    MW Harris, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:48am

    How ironic that Brad's initials stand for B.M

    I suspect that you're right about ole' Bradley,... he can't even post an email without doing it twice. :)

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Neal, 1 Jun 2006 @ 6:51am

    Victims

    When it comes to banks, we already are victims. I have been in a credit union and it is great. I used to belong to a big name bank once. Once I got a letter stating I overdrafted my account, I was charged a $20 overdraft fee. The odd thing was my final account balance after the check was covered and fees applied was -$18 and some cents. I must have had at least a dollar something in my account or the balance should have been over -$20. Needless to say my logic was not their logic and they wouldn't clear the charge. Left them for a credit union and now I am much happier.
    I always laugh at people that get swindled in scams. These ones seem a little more tricky, took some real ingenuity. Here is a thought, if there is any stranger who wants you to do something monetary that will benefit you some and them a lot more, be a little more skeptical. I know my deposit slips at my bank state that the funds received are subject to verification. The atm even states it when you are making a deposit. Whether or not staff remind you at the counter is a bit blurry, as I don't do it too often. People who bank should know all about this and think a bit. I could pull up to an atm and insert an empty deposit envelope and type in a $300 deposit to my account and withdraw that amount. The bank will put that amount in your account and it will show on your receipt but you sure will be sorry when they open that envelope. Regardless, I still laugh at victims... until I'm the victim. People should just accept that they've been had instead of trying to pass the blame to someone else. You are the ass!!!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Yakov, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:03am

    Common people

    Seriously, if someone asks you to wire them money -- get a clue. Don't blame the bank. Do some research -- say I will need 12 weeks to make sure your check is good. Say I will deposit the money in an escrow account. Seriously folks, why do people blame someone else for their own carelessness. Last time I got paid with a check for an ebay transaction, I asked a Chase bank teller, when will I know that the check has cleared -- she said within a week, then I asked when will I know the check isn't a fake -- she left to check and came back and said that there is no way to tell, but it may take up to 3 months before the check is verified. So ask the right questions, and stop shifting responsibilities on the banks. I mean how many of you want to wait for 3 months for a check to clear. What kind of a rukus would you raise?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      DrFurst, 4 Jun 2006 @ 10:59am

      Re: Common people

      Ha ha. It amazes me to no end that these guys continue to find new victims!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Topher3105, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:04am

    Bottom line is

    Banks should simply end using cheques.

    These are antiquated means of payment and are unnecessary in the 21st century.

    The last time I wrote a cheque was for paying rent several years ago, and then my landlord got an Interac machine and I could pay by debit card.

    Who would ever accept a cheque from someone these days for payment of something. If I am selling something, like a used computer, its cash or nothing. With access to debit machines these days, there is never a time when someone can't get the money out of their account when they need it (unless they don't have that money to begin with). Heck, they can even email me the funds between banks or use Pay Pal.

    If you cash a cheque where the linked account doesn't have enough funds, YOUR charged with an NSF charge. The bank considers you a criminal. So your stuck with a $25 charge AND no money for that computer you sold. Good luck trying to get money back.

    The amount of time it takes for a bank to clear a cheque is ridiculous too, 3 - 5 business days? I can pay bills online and its immediate (from the bank's end).

    Banks should simply end cheques, period. It would probably reduced operating costs and would end an obvious source of fraud that the banks have to deal with every day. If your some yokel or Grandma that fires off a cheque to pay for everything, time to get into the 21st century and get that debit card and learn about online and telephone banking.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      blah, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:08am

      Re: Bottom line is

      Cheque? Its check pal, this is America, we dont want no redcoats around here.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        DJK, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:25am

        Re: Re: Bottom line is

        hahaha "we don't want no redcoats..." that's a double negative pal and that means that you do. Furthermore, "This is America"???....is the Internet only in America?? Check / Cheque.....who cares, you know what they meant. Don't be a dick.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Scott, 1 Jun 2006 @ 10:37am

        Re: Re: Bottom line is

        "Cheque? Its check pal, this is America, we dont want no redcoats around here."

        Get real. This is the internet.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Dave, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:29am

      Re: Bottom line is

      The problem is you are looking at this from the viewpoint of a tech savvy person. We are the exception, not the rule. Most people are still afraid of electronic transactions, and would rather the paper trail that a check provides.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Christy, 5 Dec 2007 @ 2:52pm

      Re: Bottom line is

      You do realize that not everyone accepts debit cards (including rent). I live in a very large national chain apartment complex in the SF Bay area and they require check or cashier's check. Some you can pay online, others not. Seriously...what's faster and easier? hmmmm.....go request a chashier's check from the bank and then take to the apt, or write a check while at the apt? Not the hard to figure out. Yes...while most places and most things these days are easy to get by debit cards and other "instant" methods of payment, it doesn't mean that all places make that available to you. So maybe you should stop and before calling people, "some yokel" or "grandma", consider the fact that there are reasons why people still write checks. And next time you need to pay cash for something that costs more than your daily "ATM" withdrawl limit, or you don't have time to make an extra stop to pay a bill that may not accept your precious debit card, you'll too realize that yes, while the checks are not used everyday anymore, they can still come in handy. Since we live in a world of convience, it will always be what's handy as opposed to what may make sense to you.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Dave, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:18am

    What banks are these?

    Every checking account I've ever had has always had a hold policy on checks from new sources -- even obvious payroll checks. If I deposited a check from a source that hadn't previously given me money before, they hold it for up to 10 days to wait for it to clear the originating bank. After that, all checks from that source clear usually the same day.

    In 10 years I've never had a bank do anything that you mentioned. What banks are doing this so I can avoid them?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      ehrichweiss, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:41am

      Re: What banks are these?

      Unfortunately that hold policy is only to wait on a check to "clear", not on whether it was valid. I know, I had a "friend" write me a check, I deposited it and waited over a week for it to clear(both banks were in the same city). The tellers at the bank said it cleared and I withdrew the money and spent it as I should have only to discover 2 days later he had put a stop-payment on the check and I suddenly owed the bank money I didn't have. The idiots then wanted to threaten to send the check to the sherriff as if *I* were the criminal in the situation. I paid the check and then promptly closed my account. I've never trusted a bank with my finances since.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    BB, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:19am

    no way to win

    I work at a credit union and I have seen people get scammed by someone wanting to buy their car and sending a check of overpayment. I hear everyone complaining about how the banks should fix it. Why should the bank correct your stupidity? I mean come on, why would someone over pay by thousands of dollars only to trust that you will send them back the difference. It's called common sense. So, what do banks have to do, one solution is to put a longer hold on checks to make sure they clear, OH HECK NO! You should see the look on the customer's faces when we told them that - Hello, we are not just trying to protect us but also to protect you from getting scammed. And now you have so many people printing out fraudelent cashier's checks. On the average I get 3 emails a day of banks warning of possible fraudelent cashier's checks being used with their names. So now in order to protect the customer (and us) we have to call on every cashier's check to make sure it is valid. You should see some of the stares the tellers get as the customer waits, it is ridiculous.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      regi in fort lauderdale and weston FL, 1 Aug 2006 @ 9:23pm

      Re: no way to win

      i was scammed this way. i was told that the buyer wrote a check for $11,000 for another car and it was sold so he was going to send it to me and i would send the difference to the shipper. and these scammers are professional normal people layyers, psychologists etc. ive heard a story about a female working for the navy sending hacked information from government networks to her husband who was the ringleader of a large skam group. bust in 2002. these people have a huge advantage over younger people or people without a higher education. there are people who will throw around large amounts of money like its nothing. and you WORK for a credit union so you know what to look for and about scams (what is common sence to you IS A HIGHER EDUCATION TO MOST OF THESE MINIMUM WAGE PEOPLE GETTING SCAMMED.and your statement about why should the bank correct your stupidity?? THEY SHOULD ATLEAST tell you about these frauds and ask you a question or two about your deposit. this would deffinately reduce fraud. besides the bank is saposed to protect your money. they shouldnt just smile and greet you...And in my situation i asked the teller 4 times 4 TIMES 4 TIMES 4 TIMES "are you sure that this check is clear" and " there is no possible way that it will bounce" She said NO IT IS CLEAR....... so i sent the difference to the shipper.. That is the ONLY reason i sent the money. otherwise i would have waited untill i was instructed to. In my situation i have to blame the teller who represents the bank. who should resolve and investigate or reimberse my money. i told the bank my situation with the teller and they all said the teller cannot tell me that and pretty much acted like i was lieing and ignored me.. this really pissed me off. p.s. the law needs to crack down on this fraud immediately because if they cant catch the people. then this is illegal-but the law cant do anything about it. so victims are going to start scamming others too to recover their loss. and this will blow up...

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        TODD, 23 Aug 2006 @ 2:42pm

        Re: Re: no way to win

        Same thing happened to me similar situation...the girl that handled my wire transfer assured me funds were available before sending the transfer..guess what?

        NOT.....that was Wachovia!

        I immediately contacted and sent copies of everything to Attorney General.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Tara Roberson, 21 Jul 2013 @ 4:32pm

        Re: Re: no way to win

        So what happend as a result...did u have to pay back the money or did u do jail time...did they close ur account....

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Eileen, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:46am

    speaking of Bank of America sucking...

    I had a really lovely time dealing with Bank of America recently. I'm a poor student, and I had about $30 in my account one night. I go to dinner and the bill is about $10, including 20% tip. Because I am terrible about having cash, I wind up using my debit card three more times the next day for various things that cost around $15 total. Imagine my surprise when I check online, and there are FOUR overdraft fees for each of those transactions at $33 each. In short order I realize that the restaurant has charged me $35 (server decided to up her tip a bit, heh). They agree to do a charge-back, but when I ask them about the overdrafts they caused, they say "that's between you and your bank". Hilariously, when I called B of A, I get told "this is between you and the restaurant, they should reimburse you."



    No matter how many times I tried to explain to each of the (about 10 different) people I spoke to at B of A that the overdraft was a mistake and they did not have a right to charge me $142 I was basically told to go f*** myself. Not only were they unhelpful, they were in incredibly rude. Only when I threatened to close my account did they agree to take the charges off. It took me over a week to get this done. Ridiculous!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2006 @ 7:58am

    banks are the DEVIL

    Wachovia is the worst bank in the world. lets say for example. that i have $10 in my bank. and i withdraw $9. im left with $1 right??, well, duh!. but lets say, tommrow is pay day, and its 8:30pm, and i am extreamly thirsty. so i stop by the sonic and get the cheapest drink they have for $1.09. ..
    so , in all technicality, im am under in the bank. BUT. the bank will flat out tell you that it will be the NEXT business day (after that midnight nontheless) for it to be pulled from the account. (which is .. AFTER i get paid!). but because, a 'hold' is in effect, they go ahead and charge me for the uderdraft fee. and them im in the hole.

    so i go to the bank. to straighten it out. they say, that the bank statment, will be the result of weather i get my refund. so i get my statment. and it basicy shows that if the damn bank didn't charge me an underdraft fee, i would have never gone under!!!!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    WRM, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:12am

    Check 21

    As of October 28th (2005) a new law was passed called Check 21. While the language is typical political BS, it essentially requires banks to verifiy funds through substitute checks, ie, bogus checks written on a US FDIC Bank should be verified and rejected within 48-72 hours.

    If you are stupid enough to take an international check/check written on a non-US FDIC bank, then you deserve what you get.... when will people start taking responsibility for their own damn actions instead of trying to blame everybody but the actual culprit....

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:21am

    Wachovia (which used to call Walk-All-Over-Ya in college) is just as bad as BofA. How is this for math?

    $40 in the account

    Deposit $70 Tues. before the end of the business day.

    Use my checkcard on Wed. night for $50(total) in about 3 differerent stores/shops.

    I check my account the folliowing Monday and my balance is -$166.



    Even the bank I work for is a bunch of sharks. $29 for an NSF charge? The credit union that I keep my money in only charges $15. FYI even though banks handle your money they are still a business so making sure the Board of Directors/Shareholders or whoever come out on top with lots money is their NUMBER 1 priority. Don't let them cloud your mind with that customer service crap.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Adam, 1 Jun 2006 @ 9:23am

    It seems that I have the best credit union in the world. Not only have I never had any of these problems, they have an 'accidental overdraft' policy. If I overdraft my account by a small amount (say, less than $10), the credit union covers it, and sends you a warning letter. Then you have about a week before fees start showing up. This has happened to me twice, and I've never had fees.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Phillip Zedalis, 1 Jun 2006 @ 9:39am

    Bank Fees

    I would agree that Wachovia sucks on the notion that their fees are outrageous. But they are great on another principle, they will not blatantly and quickly disregard you as a customer for said fees. In my many months of college-life (well, not so much college, but poordom) back in the day... I think I spent atleast $100-200 a month in various service fees, overdraft fees, etc. because I was too immature to handle my personal accounting.

    In hindsight, I am very thankful for Wachovia. They never ditched me as a customer, so long as I paid the fees back in a timely manner (week or two), the account was cleared up and I was on my way. I believe I may have been "flagged" as a problem account for a few months, but after that period, they are as nice as can be.

    I hear all the time about banks sending letters of outrage to their customers and closing accounts arbitrarly without a phone call and I never had said problems. So despite the price I paid (fees), and yes they may have been lower at a Credit Union, I feel the fees I paid were just in the name of good business... and I was provided a valuable service by paying said fees... that being I can still use that account to this day.

    As for the fees themselves, if you are in the midst of a situation very similar to my past situation... you cannot honestly say that it's not your fault. If you have $40 in your account, and you spend $50... regardless of a deposit... well, it's not there is it? Playing the time game (well... it will be there by the time it posts) is not only dangerous, but more than likely... illegal. I'm no lawyer, so I won't begin with the consequences part... I just now the price I paid and it was a hefty one... all becuase you were "thirsty?" and wanted the 7-11 $1.09 special? Drink some water! And if you really are that desperate, well then don't deposit the money in the bank! A little cash in your pocket is never a bad thing unless you can't handle yourself... well in that case, there isn't much to be said about this issue at all then.

    Otherwise, you should be aware by now that every bank will tell you that if you don't get your CASH deposit in by a certain time (4pm Wachovia), it may or may not post. Cash usually does, but checks can take a while, and the posting only occurs on business days. So if you deposit on Friday at 4:10pm, well it's not going to post until Early tuesday morning after the Monday business day. So if you were depending on that money for Saturday... your alot better off keeping the cash, or cashing the check versus a deposit.

    And I agree with above poster, PayPal rules, checks are bad. After I got a decent job and a contributing member of society again, I burned my checks. I don't plan to ever play that game again.

    Good luck.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 26 Apr 2007 @ 1:36am

      Re: Bank Fees

      I appologize for saying this; but your an absolute sucker. You're the kind of person I could pull one over on and you would be clueless. I'll show you why:


      The "Double Hold Bank Scam”.

      This is where a bank like Wachovia will change the date of your actual debit card purchase when they pay the charge to reflect a day or two after the actual date it was charged. This creates a temporary double hold on the available funds, which does not appear on the account but it reduces the available funds behind the scene not visible to the client. When the bank posts the payment(s), they change the initial charge date to the double hold date. However, the account summary still reflects a balance and date of when the initial hold was applied. Since the client only sees the initial hold on the account summary, they are not the wiser.


      After the double hold is applied on a specific date after the initial charge date, any additional debit card charges or checks posted on that specific double hold date may take the account into overdraft and overdraft fees are applied. When the bank makes the payment, the double hold is removed and the initial charge date is changed on the posted payment to the double hold date (The new hold date is then recorded on the right hand side of the payment). If a client calls the bank to inquire about the overdraft charges, they are told that when charges came in on the double hold date (new charge date), there was not enough available balance to pay the charge. Therefore, they were overdrawn and thus the overdraft fees. If the client asks why the initial charge date was changed to the double hold date, they are told that the merchant double billed on that new date. However, there is no record of the double billing and the account summary still displays the initial charge date and balance.


      The following example will demonstrate how the “Double Hold Banking Scam” can take a $100 bank balance and only $90 in charges and transfer it into a negative -$25 bank balance when the actual balance should be $10.



      The “Double Hold Bank Scam” Example:

      Starting Available Balance: $100
      Charge#1 $60
      Charge#2 $30



      4/18/07 Initial hold of $60 - This is noted in the debit card hold section and the account summary reflects a
      Posted Balance of $100 and an Available Balance of $40

      4/18/07 Available balance $40



      4/19/07 Double hold $60 - This is NOT noted anywhere on the client's account and the posted balance and
      available balance remain the same. At this time, there is an actual hold behind the
      scene of $120 NOT $60.

      4/19/07 Available balance $40







      4/20/07 Initial hold $30 - The account is taken into overdraft yet this is NOT recorded on the account at this
      time. Nothing looks out of the ordinary.


      4/20/07 Available balance $10




      4/24/07 Posted payment $60 (4/19/07) – The date of the initial charge is changed to 4/19/07; but the account
      summary still reflects an available balance of $40 on 4/18/07.
      If the client questions the changed charge date, they are told that
      the merchant double billed. Yet the account has no record of the
      double billing and the account summary still displays a date and
      balance of when the initial charge was applied ($40 on 4/18/07).
      In addition, the debit card hold section is deleted and there is
      no available record.


      4/24/07 Posted payment $30 – The bank pays this and charges an overdraft fee of $35.
      If a client calls to inquire why they were charged an overdraft fee when they
      had enough money to cover the charges, they are told that on 4/20/07 when
      the charge of $30 came in, they had charges that were on hold that reduced
      their available balance to a level that took them into overdraft.



      4/24/07 Available balance (-$25)


      This is how the scam works to generate bank fees. This is a simple example. If you have some problem understanding it, add 10, 20 or 30+ transactions and the holds to it and see how complicated it gets to an average novice. It’s ingenious and extremely hard to detect in the middle of multiple transactions.


      Since the bank does remove the temporary double hold and makes a single payment on the charge, the books even out. No client is the wiser and it would be extremely difficult to detect by any novice.


      You can test this out for yourself. Get anyone with a Wachovia Bank Account and watch their accounts. It's best to use an account with lots of movement. I suggest you take computer snap shots of the "debit card hold" section because they delete them. When the bank posts the payments, compare the dates of the debit card holds you took snaps shots of to the date the bank notes they were initially charged. What you will notice is that Wachovia is changing the initial charge dates when they pay the charge. If you study it more carefully, you will see that they are temporarily double holding to take the account into overdraft.


      This bank scam reminds me of the old scam cashiers play on people even today. You would give them $20 for something you purchased. They would ring it up for $10 and put the $20 in the cash register. Then they would give you change on the $10. Later, during their shift or when they close the cash register out, they would pocket the extra $10. Since they only rung up a $10 sale on the cash register, the cash register ribbon that records the sale even out with the cash in the register (They keep a tally of the amount they took from people in their head or write it down somewhere. It can amount to hundreds of dollars per day). If a customer notices that they just got ripped off, the cashier or the store owner goes through the cash register’s ribbon and looks at the charges. Since only $10 was entered, they can’t see it from the ribbon. However, if the cashier did not pocket it yet and the cash in the register is checked with the ribbon, it is uncovered. The cashier apologizes for the “mistake” and there is no proof of “intent” and there is no possession. They are simply looked at as bad cashiers and they are free to do it again and again, etc.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Phil, 9 Dec 2007 @ 2:55am

        Re: Re: Bank Fees

        It's not a double hold on your account. When you use your debit card as a charge transaction (visa or mastercard)it gets approved or disapproved right away and the money is subtracted from your available balance. If you check your balance before and after the card charge transaction you will see that your balance is adjusted for the transaction.
        But, the bank also puts a hold against your account for the same amount, and it remains until that charge clears, (2 to 4 days)So effectively the bank has a hold on money that they have already adjusted your account balance for. It's during that hold period that they get you to go into overdraft. Because their computer factors in the hold amounts against the balance that they already adjusted. How they can have a hold on an already adjusted account balance and factor that hold amount in for justification to charge overdraft fees is beyond me. They get billions in overdraft fees each year through their creative accounting methods and it seems that nobody can touch them.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Frank, 1 Jun 2006 @ 9:44am

    The wife has been working at National City (a mostly midwestern/regional chain) for about 6 months as a future branch manager. In that time she's seen 2 Nigerian scams and 3 postal money order "send-me-the-remainder scams" so far. Despite her telling/pleading with these "victims" not to cash their check or send anyone their acct numbers, they still want to. How can anyone believe a scams like these!?

    It's my opinion that banks are somewhat still stuck in the middle, between trying to help their customers and following their rules. But I have yet to see that Check 21 stuff work out to be what it was promised. And the least they can do is hand out pamphlets detailing these scam scenarios. As long as you're on top of your finances you should never have a problem...

    BTW, Fifth Thirds (why isn't it 1 2/3rds?) sucks pretty hard.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    NovaScotian, 1 Jun 2006 @ 10:45am

    Bad Check Scam

    What boggles my mind about this is that you can verify a visa card held in Canada from Alice Springs, Australia or Cape Town, South Africa in seconds. Why can't banks verify checks the same way?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Bob, 1 Jun 2006 @ 10:54am

    Direct Deposit Biatches

    I only write checks to my family or immediate friends. Direct Deposit is the way to go. Every other Friday, when I wake up in the morning, there's a new deposit in my account waiting to be spent. If I'm sick or on vacation on payday, the money is still deposited. Anyone who "likes the feel of a paper check" is deluding themselves. Yeah paper feels nice, but not as nice as a positive account balance, which that paper doesn't guarantee. It could be destroyed/lost/stolen and the process of getting a paycheck re-drafted and the old one stopped is not something any HR department likes to have to go through. Meanwhile you're still broke and I'm taking you to dinner, cuz my money was in my account before lunch on payday. I've never had a bank make an error with direct deposit. One time, an old employer had mis-entered my hours and I was underpaid, but that was not a fault of direct deposit or the bank, but the bookeeper, who offered to write me a company check or to adjust the pay on my next paycheck. Since the amount was only a few percent of my normal check and I was okay with reserves, I let it ride on the next check. I pay all my bills electronically. I even pay people by check electronically through my online account. The bank actually mails a check, postage paid, to my payee and it arrives to the payee on the day I specify with a minimum 4-day lead time--I can even schedule them. Very handy.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      ron hudson, 3 Jun 2006 @ 7:58pm

      Re: Direct Deposit Biatches

      The only thing that bugs me about direct deposit is that in most instances the small print says "I grant my employer the right to make **debit** transactions to this account"

      I know it's supposed to be in case they over pay or accidentally run payroll twice (yeah right)

      What would they do if it was a live check? they'd either stop payment, or they'd have to ask me for it back.

      I'd give it back, but I don't like the idea that they can just reach in and take whenever they feel justified.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    James, 1 Jun 2006 @ 11:08am

    Don't Endorse Checks

    By endorsing a check you legally assume the liability for the funds. I never endorse check. The bank will cash it regardless.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    s, 1 Jun 2006 @ 11:18am

    WootForBaddies!, no one cares that you got the first post. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

    Techdirt readers are such morons...

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    dan, 1 Jun 2006 @ 11:36am

    whatever

    i've worked for two banks in the past 6 years and have seen a fair amount of fraudulent checks credited to accounts the same day they were deposited, and have seen legitimate checks on hold for up to 11+ business days.

    the problem is that banks are processing thousands of checks each day, and there is no way to look over every check and verify its legitimacy. which is why a check can be "verified", but the owner of the account of which is was drawn on may not notice the item until later.

    im not a bank apologist, but on this issue i understand the shortcomings banks have with processing checks, while trying to meet the demands of their customers.

    and credit unions are no different. they may be have a "friendlier" feeling to them, but they are just as susceptible to check fraud.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mike Mixer, 1 Jun 2006 @ 8:06pm

    Banks

    I got a few of you beat. My ex and I used a cash machine in a convenience store to get a hundred bucks. In the middle of he transaction the thing hiccupped and went back to the welcome screen.
    My ex tried again and this time it worked, no prob right? A couple days later we got more money out and noticed that the machine charged us twice so we went to our bank to straighten the thing out.
    The lady we talked to was courteous to the point
    of inanity but was firm that it would take 45 days to
    clear this up as the tapes for the ATM were only collected once a month(she called the ATM owner)
    and then they would have to submit some kind of
    report to get the money from them.I called the ATM
    company and they told me that they already had a copy of the tape and the forms were already faxed over and they would release the funds within a week.
    I waited the week I was told by the ATM company then called again to make sure and I was told the bank had received the refund 2 days prior so I went to the ATM and tried to get money,nothing. I went into the bank to have a nice chat and was told that they would not credit back my account until their timetable was met.I asked quite politely if I would be getting the interest they made off the money while it was in their posession and was asked to please leave. Now I wasn't going to close that account because I would never see that money, I just knew it, so I was grousing to my boss about it and he says
    "Our company does it's banking there and maybe the
    CFO would like to hear this. Well one long phone call later I was assured that there would be blood on the walls. The CFO was Irish and hadn't had a good yell in months(hee hee) After that there were new people at my bank, hardly recognised any of them and the ones I did hid in offices. Moral is get a rich friend or boss and bank where they do, it saves oh so much headache.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 15 Nov 2006 @ 5:40pm

      Re: Banks

      all banks have guidelines but due to regulation E banks have to provide you a credit back within an a lotted time of up to ten buisness days

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Angie Griffin, 5 Jun 2006 @ 1:47pm

    Cashiers Check Cashing and Money-Gram Scam

    Cashiers Check Cashing and Money-Gram Scam on 3/13/06 for $3865.00.

    Advertisement Source: CareerBuilder & Monster.com
    Positon Applied For: Customer Service Evaluator
    Company Name: Secret Shoppers
    Company Address: 1555 Regent AveWest;
    Company City/State: Winnipeg MB R2C2J4
    Company Office #: 204-951-3140
    Company Fax#: 204-951-7183
    Contact Name: Michael Thompson
    Contact Telephone #: 204-951-7657
    Contact Fax#: 905-494-0151
    Cashiers Bank Name: Harris Bank of Fairfield, IL

    Last April, I was contacted by Michael Thompson an Agent of Secret Shoppers. He did have an Nigerian or African dialect. Michael Thompson had sent me a assignment package with a check for $3865.00. Because of my long hours at work, I did not make it a priority to complete the assignment. Finally, day 4 of reciept, I decided to complete the assignment as agreed.

    The assignment:
    I then proceeded to continue my Secret Shoppers assignment which was at any Walmart's
    Money Gram.
    I wired $3515.00 and was instructed to fax my Evaluators Sheet to Michael Thompson.

    MoneyGram Payment made to: Albert Deamas
    MoneyGram City Payment made to: Moncton, New Brunswick Canada.

    Now, when BOA cleared this Cashiers check for $3865.00, I had less than $12.87 in
    my account. BOA gave me cash, no holds. Just days before, they held my $905.58
    Payroll check for 3 days. This is why, I was led to believe that there was no issue
    with the cashiers check.


    Banking History:
    I've been Banking with Bank of America for over 15 years. Historically BOA has
    held almost every check varying from $1k-10k that I have presented for 2-3 business
    days. BOA in the past and just two days prior Bank of America held my payroll check
    for three business days, and consistenly held other checks 3k-10k, for more than
    four business days. One example, I tried to put money down for a home, or borrowed
    money from IRA to relocate, or even vacations out of the US. Bank of America has
    consistenly chose to hold my funds. Personal Bankers could not explain why my checks
    are been held. I was in Puerto Rico at a Day SPA and BOA had held my funds after
    5 days of depositing money a week prior to. I instantly called BOA demanding a
    reason why this is happening. I received no explanation. I get a release on my
    account and access to funds.

    I am at wits end. BOA is not cooperating with me to get this resolved. I did contact Harris Bank in IL,
    and the Acct Risk Control is investigating transactions on the account listed above.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Lanigan1 (profile), 19 Mar 2016 @ 10:26am

      Re: Cashiers Check Cashing and Money-Gram Scam

      What happened in the end? Did it get resolved or did you end up losing the money? This is happened to me last week.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 1 Aug 2006 @ 9:41am

    This is similar to what just happened to me, and what has now sparked my own curiousty to run searches and find out what is available for consumers. I am/was a TFCU member who was scammed and deposited a check, that held 5 business days, and then cleared (though now the TFCU in NY is stating the term "cleared" was never used and that funds were merely "available" and/or "released"). This is the petty game they are now playing with me as I have tried to approach the bank at 2 separate locations. The outcome to date is that the 5 day hold resulted in "available" funds for $2399.00 from which I was to pull some and transfer it via Western Union. Well, over 3 weeks after the fact the TFCU took $2399. and an additional $12.00 from my checking and savings accounts to compensate for what came back as of 7/31/06 as a "Returned Check on a Closed Account". I am liable by the TFCU's standards and they couldn't even give me a fraud process/report to fill out. The local police department filed this as a Grand Larceny case due to the fraud, but the bank seems to have found their loophole to not be held liable. The Assistant Managers at 2 locations acted like a bunch of smug jerks, and even tried to talk to me like I needed to learn a lesson. I am trying to pursue further but don't see much light at the end of this tunnel.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Janet Curtis, 7 Dec 2016 @ 6:52pm

      Re: Id like an answer from someone this isnt right.re anon coward

      so they charged you with larcny? did u go to jail? what occurred pls answer if u see this coment jan2curtis@aol.com I have gotten 4 secrect shopper checks of late and my bank is so rude ive been with them for 40 yrs..wont give me a small loan even..im very curious if ppl due to no fault of their own are being jailed or prosecuted?!! pls answer via my email if u would be so kind i see thisi old scams and theere are eeven more going on to this day 2016! wow someone pls respond i alsmost did this cuz im broke..i think id go to jail. did you? not fair. they can write it off in their ins btw!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    regi from fort lauderdale, 1 Aug 2006 @ 9:49pm

    bank of america is a pos. they only care about people with large accounts to cash in on and to use them for investments............ they can give a shit less about you if you are a student etc..... they will try to make as much money off of you as possible.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    todd r hewitt, 23 Aug 2006 @ 9:14am

    Bogus Check

    I ecently received and deposited a check into my bank..waited until bank said funds were available..weeks later after i had written checks against that amount...i became over drawn because bank said check was never anygood. how can this be..now what do i do? what are my rights and obligations?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jules, 8 Sep 2006 @ 5:58am

    Cashier's Check Scam

    Recently I received inquiry about an eBay Listing that I had for my company. Buyer wanted to know if I would accept Cashier's Check drawn on a US Bank account. I do accept cashier's check for purchase, always have in the past with not a single problem and my bank for my business accounts is great! I felt this was a Nigerian Typical Scam, so I played along. Low and behold, after much ado, I finally received the cashier's check and the instructions to wire the extra money to the shipper in NYC. I went online and found the contact information for the bank the cashier's check was drawn against, made copies of the document to tender and faxed with a cover letter requesting validity of the document. Within 2 hours I received a telephone call from an officer at the bank stating that it was a fraudulent document and it would not be honored. Although it took a little extra time to clarify the validity of the cashier's check, it was worth it in the long run not to go through the mess of it clearing and then charging back to my business checking account. Anyone can do this with a bank and I feel most banks will totally cooperate with your honest inquiry, a matter of self and bank preservation!
    Thinking smart when it comes to money matters is definitely going to give you a leg up on any institution.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    james, 5 Jan 2007 @ 11:25pm

    I just deposted a possibly fraudulent check

    i got a check worth $2K from an online employer.. I deposited it in my B o A account just today.. but now Im doubting it is fraudulent.. Now Im wanting to request the bank to cancel clearing that check.. But its Friday evening and Im not sure if B o A is open on Saturdays.. My B o A account has $0 balance.. What shall I do.. Pls help!

    Can I still request for cancellation of that check my Monday since its not yet 3 business days?

    Or is it already too late?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Stacy of Littleton, CO, 14 Mar 2007 @ 3:45pm

    Same thing just happened to me

    The police informed me that the cashiers check made payable to me for $3k, which I already deposited into my account, was fraudulent and that I should not wire them back their portion of the money. I was under the impression that I got this great Secret Shopping job and was excited about my first and future assignments. After depositing the check, I called my bank at least five times to find out when this cashiers check would actually clear. I got a lot of different feedback from the different operators. Some said the next business day, some said 5-10 days. Thank God I decided to call my bank once more before wiring them their money. I got a hold of a customer service rep that just so happened to be a secret shopper and she warned me about it and that I should call the police. She said that she has seen cashiers checks bounce as late as six months later. That really scared me. Why couldn't the other banking reps warn me of this? I agree with you. If it wasn't for the nice cautious banking rep, I'm ashamed to admit, that I would have been stupid enough to wire them their portion of the money, and would have been screwed out of $3k. If that would have happened, you bet I would pursue legal actions against my bank. I can't believe that the other banking representatives didn't have my best interest in mind. Now the money is just sitting in my account. I'm waiting for it to disappear as it is not a real check, according to authorities. There is a pending investigation going on currently. Once I have all my paperwork together, including a copy of the check, I am to submit it to be used as evidence in the pending investigation. Beware of these scammers!!!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    GIMME THE MONEY, 30 Mar 2007 @ 1:41am

    I KNOW THIS IS BAD BUT CAN SOME HELP ME OUT

    I FOUND THIS CHECK. IT FROM ONE COMPANY TO ANOTHER COMPANY. IT WORTH ALOT. SOMEONE TOLD ME I COULD USE THE NUMBERS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CHECK TO BUY STUFF BUT I DONT KNOW EXATCLY HOW. AND I DON'T WANT THIS TO BACKFIRE ON ME. I WOULD PERFERRED IF SOMEONE ELSE COULD CASH IT FOR ME AND I WOULD GIVE TO LIKE 300 DOLLARS. BUT I DONT KNOW IF YOU CAN DO THAT. LIKE IF ITS EASY TO GET CAUGHT DOING THIS I'LL JUST THROW THE CHECK AWAY. BUT HEY IF ITS NOT I WANNA MAKE THAT MONEY

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ROland Riemers, 8 Aug 2007 @ 2:49am

    check fruad

    What gets me, is I received a obvious phony cashier's check written on the Navy Credit Union. So I called them and gave them the check information but they admitted they had no way of telling if a cashier's check drawn by them was good, and they could only suggest I deposit it and see what happens. Most of the banks I deal with in my home state, will at least inform you if a check is currently good if you give them a call and give them the account and the amount. But, there appears to be a lot of banks unwilling to do this, and thus they enable scammers to cheat people out of money. Oh, I did deposit the check out of curiosity. I will not spend any of the money of course. But who knows, if the Navy Credit Union is that backward, the check might clear and maybe after 6 months or so I might take the money out. I don't expect that, but sometimes I do get lucky and the check might slip through the cracks. I have to hand it to the Nigerian Scam artests in being able to pick out the American banks that best facilitate their thefts.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    diane masucci, 27 Dec 2007 @ 8:18am

    fraudelent bank check

    I was also a victim of a fraudelent bank check and as a result lost my checking account because i owe the bank. I was suspicious and daily called the bank which had cleared 100$ of the check and claimed the check was cleared. I was unemployed and my account was always close. I did not send a check to the scammers as I was suspicious, but approx 6 transactions cleared against the 100$ amounting to about 60$ so after three weeks the bank informed me that this check was not valid, they could not find the account. Now I was fined 35$ for all 6 transactions, which I did not have the money, also the bank told me I had to leave the account open for 8 weeks and I was fined each week a fee until the account was closed. I also had approx 4004 in bills of mine but did not deposit money as all would be overdrafts according to the bank. I was treated so badly and I have banked at this bank for over 20 yrs and I now owe 1400$ as a result of spending 60 $ . My bank is TD bank north and not part of the us banking association according to the NY attorney generals office. I never sent the money and this profit is going to the bank. I am now paying them 50$ a month and do not have a checking account. I was ignorant, but I feel as a victim the bank did not have the right to penalize me to this degree as I do not have the earning power to remedy this. I feel I am not the only victim of TD banknorth. The bank told me that every person knows to not write against a check even on the first cleared 100$ as it takes a bank at least 8 weeks to clear a check. I have never heard this and this bank was only out 60$ which I could have paid.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    taken for a ride, 1 Apr 2008 @ 9:58pm

    scammed

    I received a check for $5,000 made out to me. I cashed it at my bank without depositing it into any accounts. But it had my name on it
    The next day a "pending" debit balance appeared in my account.
    The next day the "pending" negative balance disappeared which I took to mean that the check had cleared.
    3 days later a negative balance appeared in my account showing that the check had been "uncleared"
    But there is no evidence of it having been put into my account in the first place.When I cashed it it did not go into my account and does not show on my account that it went in
    The person whom I cashed the check for has (of course) disappeared..
    Do I have any recourse since the check was cleared and then "uncleared"but there is no evidence of a deposit

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    dusty, 7 Jul 2008 @ 7:08pm

    The best ever

    Scammer (supposed old high school friend) calls my wife and needs help getting started after serving in the WAR IN IRAQ. He doesn't have an account anywhere and needs cash to rent an apt. He'll send her a check to cash for him. So she gave him the name (NOT acct #) of the credit union. Well, he didn't send the check to her, he sent it via FedEx direct to the credit union made out to him and drawn on a well known bank with a note to deposit into her account. He then calls her with instructions to withdraw the money and wire it to him cause he doens't have a bank acct yet. She goes to the credit union feeling a little uneasy and asks the teller if the check is good. She says it's probably OK because it cleared. She makes the WD SAME DAY! for over $3,000 and wires the money. A few days later the bank is calling accusing us of fraud and wants to talk. So I go in and give them the story and they want to make sure I will agree to pay it back in full. I disagree and ask them how much is their responsibility for making an unauthorized deposit of a counterfeit check that I never saw and for the bad info my wife got from the cashier. They dodge the question and quote policy. I continue to push the point and am told the account will be closed and I will be held totally responsible and they will sue if I refuse to pay. This, after 13 years of banking, 2 car loans, etc... So I ask what legal action they would be taking on the person who sent them the counterfeit checks and they say none as it won't be worth it to them because the obligation is all mine. So I say what can I do and they say call the FBI...but don't expect much as the amount isn't going to get their attention. So I say what about local poice and they say that probably won't lead to anything as the transaction occurred acrosss state lines. What a screw job. The check system needs to be dissolved. There is no practical way to verify authenticity in today's world...it's becoming a high stakes glorified method of gambling. The fraud officer later told me that my case was just one of hundreds and that millions of dollars are at stake every day due to counterfeiting, fraud, scams, etc...
    Find a way to refuse to use the check system and make these scumbags work a little bit harder to prey on the unsuspecting good at heart. He will have to meet his maker some day...Vengance is mine saith the Lord.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mr Dood Guy, 7 Aug 2008 @ 3:30pm

    empty deposit envelope at atm

    Since I get paid on mondays , by the weekend I normally have little funds in my checking account.Maybe the past couple months I would put a empty envelope at branch atm just before 2 pm on a friday, they would let you take 100 right away & then more or less take your word for it & by saturday the amount you punched into the atm would be in the account, since it would take till late mon early tuesday it would be replenshed with no fees the 1st 6 or so times, but i did that last weekend I did a "deposit env." on fri & a again on sat to get another 100 ,since it wasn't put back in time 100% they charged me 35X3=105 & totally put a hold on cashing a check at branch & they canceled my visa check card & said they will not give me another.so basically with no atm card the account is useless & I will have to close my account with wachovia. I told them a family member got my card & pin when i was in hospital & I was willing to not dispute the fees & was talking to loss prevention on getting a new card & pin & they shut me down, so its not really worth the hassle.They catch on sooner or later.I went to get cash I only had about 140 in that account & took me a trip to atm,drive thru on phone with main cust service & inside branch for almost a hour to cash a personal check & be told my ck card/atm was canceled & the account still isn't fixed, so I wouldn' t bother messing with that idea

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mike, 2 Sep 2008 @ 9:36pm

    Scamming the Scammers/Bank?

    So, here's my question. I knew I was being scammed from the get go and went thru with it to see how it worked...i was confused as to how it benefited them until the overpayment nonsense. So when the guy emailed me explaining he overpaid and 'could he trust me to send over the excess' i wrote back telling him that the issue is between him and his secretary. he should probably fire her. and maybe she should pay him the difference cause i wasn't.

    So, here's the thing. i Just moved out to CT and 'm kind of tight on money...couldn't i just cash this thing and look at is as a cheap loan from the bank? i mean, 2,250 is some pretty decent money to me...i could spend like...300 and then pay them 1,950 right away. and then pay them the other 300 next month or something.. do they charge me for the bounced check (25?) and how long do i have to pay this back? could i spend all of it and just slowly pay the bank back? does it damage my account? Basically, if i cash this with no intention of paying anyone, just to use a few hundred for some groceries (i just moved. im poor) ... what happens??? all help is appreciated.

    i also agree that people need a bit more common sense. i mean, i know the exact email being discussed. i got it. its obviously a scam. the old adage:" if its too good to be true, it usually is" ...it's an old adage for a reason. i was initially shocked that scammers were so lazy as to be so blatant and careless...but, foolish me, obviously the fish are biting. its almost tempting! :P

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    nancy, 30 Mar 2009 @ 6:56pm

    fake check

    I recieved a check and I clled the bank it was drawn on they said the accouint was real and it had the funds to cover the check so knowing this i cashed it at my bank only to find out 5days later it cmae back nsf so they took that mone3y out of my account so i needed more information I went to the bank it wasdrawn on 66miles from my house to see what i could do to cash it so they said oh the accpount is good and plenty of funds then she says oh this account has been closed since 12/08 now why didnt the bank tell me this when I first called and I would not have cashed it also my bank should have said we will cash it but dont use the funds till the check clears i think opne of these banks should re pay me my money

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2009 @ 3:57pm

    bull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Scott Pruitt, 17 Oct 2013 @ 9:51am

    Common sense has its place...

    Yes you can say common sense about not touching the oven when its hot or going more than 5K mi without an oil change on your car or parking your car outside with your windows rolled down while its raining to name a few...Duh obviously common sense right? Simple everday things we know better about right?? Then explain to me how adults still get these very common sense things wrong??? Now for some contrast...
    How the FUCK does a person who has never had any prior experience with or knowledge of any of these types of scams supposed to magically know (again with no prior knowledge how are you supposed to make the common sense determination)??? For those comments above from the people saying things like, "HAHAHAHA you flipping idoits, fools, HAHAHA, you deserved to be scammed, you asked for it, if I had the chance I would scam you also how gullible of a person you are." You need to understand that its possible even with todays technology to have people unaware of such dubious and devious tactics that these evildoers are committing. Tell me how often does a victim of such a crime go running around their neghborhood or school or work place or when visiting with family/friends blabbing about how they were just defrauded...huh well they don't. Why, ahhhh common sense ASSHOLES not only is this a screwed up situation for them to deal with, not only are they feeling terrible, not only are they in disbelief of what happened, obviously there's so many diffeent emotions going on all at once racing around the victims mind but do you FUCKED UP commenters think that this victim is actually going to go around broadcasting to the world their personal life and the fact that they have been a victim of such a crime...FUCK NO morons its common sense right??? So how do con-artists and criminals as such still get away with these felonious acts in this day and age of technology and security measures in place...I'll tell you how. There's one very important factor here that everyone is missing but I don't blame any of you for not knowing because it's NOT COMMON SENSE for a typically good natured person or even you negative piece of shit ASSHOLES to have to know. Once I divulge this information (in other words once I've shared some prior knowledge with you all there's no excuse afterwards of not knowing or being aware of such.) Here it is the only way a bank can allow for such crime to happen and then actually put the blame on the victim or hold them responsible for the now negative balance reflective on their accounts, is that their are internal associates working in cohesion with these fraudsters and there isn't a single bank out there (including Federal CU's) immune to this reality that is not COMMON SENSE for the typically good natured person to be aware of or even you ASSHOLE commenters. As for myself its COMMON SENSE to clearly understand the law in that a person cannot committ a crime against someone, for the sole purpose of having the unsuspecting party also committing a crime as a result that they are then held responsible for. In other words you can't break the law in order to cause someone else to break the law and then place them at fault for commiting the unsuspected crime such as accepting and receiving either a physical paper check, wire transfer, account transfer of funds or even cold hard green cash that were ultimately deposited into the vicitms account and used for obvious reasons.
    Back to the internal associates working together with these US or overseas criminals. Now I ask you FUCKIN negative commenters since you all have figuered out these scams and the tactics used, tell me this how is it that the fraudsters are able to be one step ahead of the general populations knowledge of such crimes and one step ahead of the authorities??? Ahhhhh COMMON SENSE, we've all acted and behaved to a certain extent with the same manner these criminals use, only when we did this it was for something harmless like a surprise b-day party you know a bunch of people purposely plotting against a person in order to make them believe that no one would remember their b-day or maybe even distracted them by leading them on some false excursion to virtually anywhere in order to get them to leave their home, allowing for time to have everyone else enter and set up for the surprise. Or how about when you were younger, you and your friend/sibling were trying to sneak some cookies from the kitchen so one of you either kept an eye out for the parent as the lookout/early warning system or you actually went and distracted that parent from making their way into the kitchen allowing for your partner in crime to get away with some cookies upon which you both met up afterwards and shared in the spoils all the while thinking how clever your operation was. Yep we all know the truths of what it takes to get away with such manipulation. I'll be damned if any of you try and attempt to argue that these harmless acts are not of the same nature and much different from these adults that are committing fruad you can eat a DICK for real because it's one in the same mentality or thought process utilized. Without their being someone allowing for it to happen from the inside who shares the inner working of the banks systems, timeframes to clear such transactions, certain red flags being removed temporarily from ones account like no holds on a check that otherwise would've taken 3-5 days to clear
    but for this particular fraudulant transaction WOW there was no hold at all & it cleared within minutes showing funds available already only to have the red flags re-activated the following day to make no one the wiser from the banks internal risk/compliance/governance dept. that is designed to divert the attention from the real criminal, the internal employee & over onto the ususpecting good person. Without the internal associate allowing for the open window it would generally be much more difficult for purely external fraudsters to get away with such crime. One last thing to mention anyone that works in the banking world specifically for the corporate side of the bank, the corporate associates would agree that working at the branch level is no different than working for a fast food joint like say McDonalds or Burger King and their wages aren't that much more in comparison. Go ahead question this statement, if you know someone that works at the corporate level for a bank ask them how are the branch level associates and even the branch itself viewed as...now go ahead you negative pieces of shit and choke on your FUCKIN comments but I guess I aleady know you will...COMMON SESE tells me that!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Natasha, 28 Sep 2014 @ 11:17am

    Fraudilent

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Natasha, 28 Sep 2014 @ 11:17am

    Fraudilent

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Denise Tillman, 2 Sep 2016 @ 10:40am

    Bank should reimburse

    My bank told me to check
    My account next day the funds
    Were in there so I used them thinking it was clear 2 days later bank - took all my
    Money will not help me
    CHASE BANK!!!!!CASHIERS CHECK

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mark wanger, 21 Nov 2016 @ 7:02pm

    After reading all the comments it's insane just how stupid the average person is lol...apparantly common sense is anything but common. Get a clue...

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ryan, 16 Mar 2017 @ 12:35am

    g

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    blekkulf, 9 Aug 2017 @ 10:12am

    LOL @ US for using checks.

    LOL @ USA for still using checks xD Its been outdated here in Europe since the 80s xD

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    katiecor44@gmail.com, 6 Dec 2017 @ 6:12pm

    How I recovered funds stolen by BO brokers.

    I have just recovered all the money i lost to 72 Options binary brokers. I hired a charge back/ recovery solutions expert who fought hard to make sure I recoup my money. I am so glad I can share my experience hopefully someone else can learn from it too..Cheers

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Basant, 4 Apr 2018 @ 5:18pm

      Re: How I recovered funds stolen by BO brokers.

      Thanks for this insightful and helpful post. You have saved my life by this story you shared and Am also grateful for pointing me the right direction to recoup investment stolen by this bastards.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Wheeler, 25 Jan 2018 @ 6:17pm

    My wife is a veteran. We have really done a few doozies on both our credit reports. We have been trying to raised our scores to 750 and above plus excellent her score is 550, while mine is still in the high 500’s. I also have a judgement against me for a credit card. The judgement doesn’t show up on my credit report anymore; I assume because it’s 7 years old. I know it didn’t just “go away”. All effort to increased and eliminate all negative item on my report was proven abortive until I saw many remarks of how this credit coach had helped them "cyberhack005 at gmail dotcom". He did a tremendous job by helping me increased my score and remove all negative item on my credit report just few days after we fixed agreement. Thanks am highly indebted

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]


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