eBay Wants To Throw Poker Players In Jail Too
from the how-convenient dept
As the federal government races against the states to enact laws against online gambling, one company in particular is hoping that they'll both hurry it up. Auction giant eBay has become a vocal proponent of Rep. Bob Goodlatte's proposed ban on the practice; and it's not just a matter of eBay wanting to curry favor with a government official. The company's PayPal division has essentially kowtowed to the government's requests, and doesn't allow its users to use it for gambling. That's created a niche for some PayPal competitors that operate in Europe and are untouched by US law. So for eBay, Goodlatte's initiative is a nice way to prevent Americans from switching over to a competitor. What's funny is that in Europe, PayPal does facilitate gambling. At one point, PayPal's founders envisioned the service as way for citizens to engage in commerce freely, without oversight or regulations -- apparently they've made an exception for regulations that harm their competitors.
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Ebay anti-gambling
If I went to a Hong Kong casino site right now and spent a few hundred dollars, that should be my business and the casino in Hong Kong!
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Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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It's all Gambling
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Nothing wrong with paypal...
... that having some viable competition wouldn't cure in a heartbeat!
Ever since Ebay bought PayPal, people have been searching for a viable alternative to both, but so far, no Ebay/PayPal killer has come forth to rescue us. I keep hoping that a combination of GoogleBase and a Google payments system will surface, but the recent actions of Google in China have made me wonder if they have enough spine.[ link to this | view in thread ]
Please Stop it
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It's quite simple...
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Re: It's quite simple...
The tax laws for any country applied to where u are at physically. Id like to refer you to the Google's Summer of Code discussion of this but its in groups.google.com/Summer-Accepted-2006
But an ans is here http://code.google.com/soc/studentfaq.html#taxes
Has nothing to do with were the site is located...or where your work is stored in the case of summer of code. It is where you physically are at when you do something
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Re: Re: It's quite simple...
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Re: It's quite simple...
This is not correct. Some american laws still apply to US citizens even if they are abroad.
You can not legally bribe a foreign official even if you do so outside the US.
You can not legally spend money in Cuba nor can you go there. Even more so, you can not legally purchase cuban origin goods abroad.
As a US Citizen you can't even legally buy a cuban cigar in Mexico - even if you smoke it there and never bring it back (since the profits go back to Cuba.)
(http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/006817.html)
Will you get caught? Not likely. The only enforcement I've seen pop up in the news are $7,000 fines for US Citizens who traveled to Cuba through another country.
The US has been trying to write laws that claim jurisdiction based on citizenship rather than location of where an action took place. While this may have some social good in the case of a corporation bribing foreign officials and proposed anti-child prostitution laws, it is starting to get pretty outrageous in cases involving the net.
With online gambling, I would wonder if the law claims that you can not gamble online if you are a US Citizen or if you are doing so physically within US borders at one end.
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well how is this different from gambling online. if the company that runs the site operates out of the country, than i wouldnt have to show my winnings on my taxes and thus the gvt is not getting a cut.
seems like two same, or at least similar situations, but yet only one is being messed with.
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Ebay anti-gambling
Ebay needs a domain name change to FLEABAY...
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But lately...
Well, I canceled my PayPal account last month cause I was so pissed off at them for a buncha senseless BS on their ends...
So whatever, I'll stick to other sites, forget eBay and Paypal.
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Re: by Anonymous Coward
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Re:
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Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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RE: Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling - DREI
n.
1. The act of regulating or the state of being regulated.
2. A principle, rule, or law designed to control or govern conduct.
Please see #2
Main Entry: reg·u·late
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Forms: -lat·ed; -lat·ing
1 : to govern or direct according to rule
2 a : to bring under the control of law b : to make regulations for or concerning
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What people don't realize
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Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
The America of today has become what the original settlers fled from. Religious persecution and state sponsored morality have become the norm.
Gambling may not be a right5, but freedom is supposed to be in America. Why do we tolerate the government legislating what is right or wrong? Why does the government feel I need protection from myself? Am I a child? Do I not have rights to my own thoughts and actions? Who have I harmed by gambling?
I think I'm going to go cut the seatbelt out of my car now, I don't want to be 'safer' with it on anymore.
Try and ticket me you a-holes!
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Re: Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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Re: What people don't realize
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the only thing sleazier than a politician is the executive who is paying him off...
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Re: What people don't realize
In poker you do not play against the house but instead against other players. The house makes money by taking a small portion of the total bet or pot. They make money by having lots of hands played. For a person to lose, another person has to win with the casino taking a small portion of the winnings.
An example:
I were to be playing against you and the total bets reached $1000 and I won - I would get something like $999. The house takes that first dollar.
Whether it's one card shark making off with everyone else's money or lots of people making a tiny bit is irrelevant.
Now - I turned $250 in bets into $999. The $749 I made are supposed to be heavily taxed. Fine.
On the other hand lets take a look at that exchange in an online poker scenario. I paid taxes when I earned the money within the United States economy. I benefited from that economy so I pay taxes. Then I gamble and earn more but it was on an international website. Does taking a Brit, a Canadian and a German player's money on a server running in Bermuda over a dsl line that I paid US taxes on.
Should I be paying taxes to Bermuda, Canada, the UK and Germany? Where does the US fit into all of this if the US economy's portion of the dealings was already taxed at earning, telco tax and will be taxed again later at spending time.
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Playing Poker at PayPal
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Re: Ebay anti-gambling
They just came here to pray. In addition, pay domestic taxes LMAO
I was taught those people ganged raped those naked native women, enslaved them and murdered thousands of Indians and gave them small pox, because they kept getting bows and arrows in their backs. In addition, they killed witches. Or did you go to the same public schools that I did? What they also paid taxes, I bet some did not have to! Or could you imagine not paying on time. LOL (hide all wood Billy bob, there out side)
I do not know about the very first few hundred people that came here, but I bet they would LOVE INTERNET GAMING! J in the privacy of their own homes, car's, star bucks, office, PDA‘s ipods, Cell Phones, with out the FEAR of the government, listening to their phone calls, reading there internet searches and viewing there Gaming purchases.
'The United States' did not have an income tax law until like the Civil War. I believe the 'South' had no choice but use a tax income because it was so poor compared to the North and of course the South was making a killing on the slave trade and those liberal tax hawks rebels wanted a share of the booty for the CSA of course.
[author note] (You can high light the word casino if you have yahoo toolbar and right click right NOW and go play a game of poker online. In the future, you probably have to use your thumbprint, national ID card number and passport to get online in the Union of Soviet States of Amexica, and don’t you even dare go to a gaming website unless it is the Lottery web page.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States
I did not read that website yet but I had to back up my thoughts about taxes from memory. Also just found http://www.tax.org/Museum/default.htm
Look this is so simple I could have wrote this in crayons! OK We never taxed income in this country for at least the first 100 some years. People took this income tax to the Supreme Court in the early 1900's because it is unconstitutional and won! I can remember reading this stuff from grade school and Jr high. Back then from what I read in our Bill of Rights, as a 9th grade student, I had an understanding that it was not our nations legal right to tax us. For the most part, I believe the net is like protected and untaxable in some forms because of some recent laws just passed or unless you live in the state, where the web page is from, or that state places some law taxing all net sales. Which by the way really sucks, probably not legal? That is why some people purchase their cigarettes online because of the heavy tax burden on them, as if New York City has some nutty tax like $4.00 dollars a cartoon? Or a pack. It is stupid; could you imagine the cigarette black market in NYC? YES probably making a killing but probably worth millions, and all tax-free.
I realize that the USA and a lot of States do tax our income in fact we have to pay our city a worker fee, because some of us got a job. WTF I cannot vote against these people because I do not live in the city I work in. Now that is what this country fought the British over was taxing us with out us having a voice in London, England.
We kinda do not have a choice but to pay taxes look at what our taxes has done for us. Nuclear weapons, a Cold War, a million agencies exc. Our government is huge and never ending and they the government workers don't even pay a social security tax, and does the government even work?
Can you say Katrina real slow, all kinds of tax money has been spent on Louisiana for decades for flood safety and all kinds of that money lined the garage walls of some one named Gino 'Fussy Fingers' Soprano? You probably do not need proof that the flood money went to some thing else besides flood safety.
Thank God, states like Florida does not tax income! They also have hurricanes and floods, and they are still in business, amazing! What if your web company was in Miami, Florida and these people in Washington State was on a Florida website winning hundred of thousands to millions of dollars having a great time IN THEIR OWN HOMES.
The website would have to tell their WA government who they paid a million dollars to, and then the government takes that away from you, fines you takes your house, cars and imprisons you. In the same day Washington state could had just gave some one $300 million dollars from there lotto game? Something there just doesn’t make any sense, besides it is like the birth place of the computer system, with MS and so on.
It is just so easy to get online and play a few games, still have your wife in the other room [she should be free : )] and you are still working the next day. It is so different. I do not live around any Indian casino, Vegas, Jersey and the other small fry casino places in the country. I am sure the internet is probably curbing their profits by the millions. Also in hotel cost, food, traveling, GAS PRICES etc worth millions tack on to that in credit card interest fees and so on. A lot of these casino rackets gave the politicians around the nation millions of dollars in every election you can think of. To make them selves legit in the eyes of the law.
These people and a few groups (ebay?) want to make it illegal? If you go online, you go to a foreign nation’s website, and you are in a foreign nation’s website! RIGHT? Of course you are! If you cannot purchase gaming items on your personal computer, cell phone pda whatever. You could be online on a smart phone crossing several state borders, so you could be winning a couple of thousands of dollars while crossing the state line. Which brings up questions where the law starts and ends, that‘s why they are making this crap federal, it still doesn‘t hurt you if you cross their state border. Then they should at the same time make state lotto games illegal! I don’t really see that much of a difference.
Which would never happen, because they make mega billions off of that and they make it look ok and legit saying, these funds go for education. I have two monitors hooked up right in front of me, I can be playing poker online for real mooula and on the other monitor, and I can have the mega millions drawing live checking my numbers? In addition, see how much money I lost buying the Mega Millions tickets. lol
The United States should respect those nations in a debate about what is legal and what is not legal because these web site companies are making millions of dollars, it‘s just foreign competition and they don‘t like it. It's not like we can't disagree, if they do make laws against ‘net gaming‘, the correct word for it, then I would hope people would challenge the law in a COUNTY with Video Lottery Machines Operating in that COUNTY. To me it is the same thing. I would have that government explain their lottery machine, which they would not do it, because it would release program secrets, the case would be thrown out and I would win the case. I would compare the websites against their Video Machine.
Really though the State Government of Washington could be force to have a State Wide Election over the issue or the Law, all you need is enough signatures on the right legal form which could be some type of website? or the law could be challenged in a way where you make the state allow “THE PEOPLE” to vote whether it’s legal or not to use Casino web pages, in their county.
I still believe it is your freaking business if you enjoy the 'sport of gaming', this is Amexica it is a free global market, with free people and some illegal extra workers. The internet is a never-ending new technology. The laws these people want to pass is not regulation it is Prohibition! Regulation is fine for those who screw people but come on, fair is fair.
Some people worry that some moron is going to go online and lose his freaking trailer and he is going to have to give up the old beat up Honda for a few more turns at the WebPages.
Isn't that his problem! Some people don't work don’t we support them? When are these same people going to make a law forcing some people to work?
Are they going to make laws blocking Indians from making these beautiful casinos? Are they even taxing these Indian casinos? I do not believe the United States Government is getting money from these Indian casinos and they can do what they want on their land, I think in some of the tribal areas you can have some pot, a cheap white woman and then go play some poker. All profits tax-free? [Could you imagine the money you could be making off a system like that? Time for a DNA test and find ‘en me some Indian DNA strains]
Indian casinos profits were about 14 billion dollars in gaming and in total gaming profits of Amexica is 72.87 Billion dollars in 2003. Gaming online should be totally legal, and nothing but legit! Not only that but while your online you can’t get people trying to sell you dope at every corner and there isn’t some slxt trying to sale you a blow job in front of your kids so she can go get some more meth.
If you are an adult consumer, start up that $6,000 dollar Alien 51 computer system and go to your favorite gaming website and win some big bucks, that you know you can win and need (you haven't played poker until you played on a tricked out alien!)
We should be able to buy gas off the internet, but they will probably make that illegal as well. LET ME ADD YOU CAN SMOKE ALL THE CUBAN CIGARS YOU WANT TO IN CANADA! It is legal, in fact they wanted to make those Cuban cigars with an extra kick in Canada but I don‘t believe that law passed, lol. Yes, you can get to Cuba if you are an American that is legal also, maybe have to get a special visa? Lets search it, that’s another book blog lol Some of you lawyers are so funny on what is legal and what is not legal.
Donald ‘Fussy Fingers' Duck
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Re: Ebay anti-gambling
I do not think that we (the US) is trying to make law against other countries, even the insinutation that that is the case is absurd. Yes, the internet is a world market, but who ever said that a "market" was free from regulations, policy, etc? As far as the Hong Kong casino......that is your business.....as long as you are in Hong Kong and not in your underwear at your home computer :) . If the US wants to ban on-line gambling, so be it. You will just have to travel to the casino the old fashioned way. Please do not get me wrong.....I understand the open source approach to the internet and the "free" internet......but there has to be a limit on somethings. I will make no vague comparisons, but it is logical to assume that some activity is going to be regulated. Just be glad you were not born in China.
WE make laws against other counties all the time, what planet are you on? That is common pratice in global trading and every thing else, ask saddam hussien if we don't make laws against other countries. I could search google or something for you or you can your self. As for where I am at while playing in my Hong Kong Casino is my business, thats the amexican way of life. Thats why thousands of men has been killed on the battle fields around the globe for me to be able to do just that. I'm Amexican, I also have the right to be in that website from the United States. Not sure what laws you are living under? We can totally disagree with the laws they pass here, change them and in fact get rid of those laws and vote out the ones who passed them. It's Amexica, we can vote. There is billionaires that hate those laws. You said if they ban online GAMING so be it. That isn't american talk if it is you need to read some right wing web sites and slowly wing your self off this government tit your on. LOL
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Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
IF GAMBLING IS LEGAL IN ANY CERTAIN STATE(OR CITY WITHIN SAID STATE) THEN IT CANNOT BE CENSORED BY THAT GOVERNMENT SIMPLY BASED ON THE FORUM IT IS PLAYED IN.
TAKE CHILD PORN FOR EXAMPLE ,IT'S ILLEGAL IN ANY FORUM THEREFORE ITS ILLEGAL ON THE NET.
NOW IF A STATE BANS GAMBLING THEN YES IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL IN ANY FORUM IN THAT STATE.IF THAT UPSETS SOMEONE THEN THEY NEED TO MOVE.
IF THE FEDS TRY TO BAN NET GAMBLING THEN THEY BETTER BE READY TO BAN ALL GAMBLING ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.
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Ebay anti-gambling
The Uk has the right idea, they have online gaming listed on their stock exchange and it's legal. Wake up America and smell the coffee. What happened to our "free" country? This smells like left overs from the prohibition era, that didn't work either.
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Paypal Europe allows gambling
nah nah nah....
Go and read "United states of Europe, by Reid.... The book is somewhat weak, but it has some interesting facts that are discussed about US companies and their suprise that they need to conform with EU rules...
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Who would play poker online for money?
7 guys teleconferenced on phones, and one sucker at a time logging in and losing.
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Re: Who would play poker online for money?
There are always sharks, but even the sharks get taken.
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Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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Re: What people don't realize
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Re: Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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Re: Re: Ebay anti-gambling
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Re: Re: It's quite simple...
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Re: It's all Gambling
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