FTC Figures Out How To Make Video-Game Sex More Prominent
from the your-tax-dollars-at-work dept
The Federal Trade Commission announced today it settled with Take-Two Interactive regarding the "Hot Coffee" mod for its Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas game that showed characters having consensual sex. We were a little confused as to what business the FTC had with it, but apparently it saw Take-Two's failure to disclose the sexual content to the industry's rating board, then the failure to disclose it on the game's packaging or in advertising as some sort of false or misleading advertising. Keep in mind that the game was already rated "Mature" before the mod was discovered, meaning a person was supposed to be 17 before they purchased the game, instead of 18, as with the "Adult Only" rating that later got slapped on it. So just to review: mindless violence out the wazoo is okay for America's children, but some consensual sex isn't, and by golly, the government's going to make sure of that. Of course, the government couldn't get involved here without it being a total joke -- one of the stipulations of the settlement is that Take-Two must "prominently disclose any questionable content on the cover of the game, unless the company had already informed the ESRB of its content". So, now, the company is legally obligated to advertise all the sexual and otherwise objectionable content that so many politicians want to stamp out. That's a good way not to draw kids' attention to it.
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Blame Canada
-Big fat bitch
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Blame Canada
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makes sense to me..
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What about parents
The problem is not the content.
The problem is not whether or not the packaging discloses how vulgar/violent/etc. a game is...
The problem is that parents these days will let their kids play whatever the hell they want for however long they want. The parents will even buy the game to give it to their kids to play. My wife and I dubbed video game systems "The Electronic Babysitter". Our kids each have a gamecube and a PS2. They each play about 90 minutes a day maximum. And the games they play? Unless we have checked them out (rented them, read up on them on line, etc.) they don't even come in the house.
There are games out there (Like the GTA San Andreas game) for which the "Adults Only" rating is not strict enough. Games like that should have a minimum age of 25 or something. Most 18 year olds are not ready for most of the contents of these games.
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Re: What about parents
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Re: What about parents
Sure at 18 you should join the military and shoot, kill and blow up real people. Those virtual kills will really mess up your mind...
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Re: What about parents
"Most 18 year olds are not ready for most of the contents of these games."
- I wish this were true....
I agree with you otherwise though, they key is good parenting, however; that's lacking in america as a whole. Glad to see someone making intelligent and responsible decisions about this though. Kudos to you!
As far as the industry goes, the obvious remedy is to not create games with such content. Problem is they will, because sex and violence sells. Also, KIDS PLAY VIDEO GAMES. Its what they do... You make they will get it.
Same thing with movies. I teach a class for children ages 3 - 7 and have done allot of inner city work with children of all ages, and as a whole i can confirm that kids are exposed to all manner of horror movies, violence and sexual perversion from infant hood up.
They develop many emotional problems and often are hardened and callused far beyond their years. On average, the age of loosing ones innocence has gone from 7 or 8 a few years ago, to 5 or 6... I have seen many cases where 3 and 4 year olds have severe hysteria, emotional issues and relational problems with their peers and authority figures, and in most cases it is due to abuse in the home or exposure to film and media that is not appropriate for any underage individual.
It is truly sad, and these kids are growing up as depraved and screwed up people... Thanks mom and dad..
Allot of this is due to high school age people having kids like rabbits and having to get married and all of the sudden children are living with, well basically being raised by children... That are old enough to watch and play whatever they want.
We created a generation or two of liberalistic "do what feels good" teenagers, who are now raising our future generations. in other words, were screwed....
I surely hope a revival of purity sweeps this nation and the world or we are in serious trouble. Children are the most precious things in life, and they are treated as a nuisance by too many. may God have mercy on us all.
- Ben McNelly
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Re: What about parents
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Re: What about parents
but I believe that you are leaving out one component that cannot be overlooked when discussing the ethical and moral implications of publishing a prodcut in the year 2006, and how different the industry is that of compared to just 5 years prior.
That is, the primary target of the video game industry is the 18 - 25 age bracket and as any educated individual knows, biologically speaking this is the most fertile age to reproduce- my point is that our bodies (at this age) cannot help but pay attention to factors such as sexual activity. It is in our brains.This is not condoning the content that Take-Two covertly included in their game, but it is placing the sex factor well within the confines of biological fact.
Furthermore to make an arbitrary statement such as, "X generation is not ready to deal with the content of the video games" is crossing many moral boundries that I, as a parent, take offense to.
To be more precise: you have no business in determining what my children can and cannot expose themselves to. This is my area of jurisdiction.
Likewise it is your business to determine what your children may expose them selves to. Need I point out that current sociological trends show an increase of age upon first conception in females. This has been the case with the past 10-15 years.
Thus, the early exposure of sex in entertainment has no correlation with 'promiscuous' activity in the current generation. Make note that by 'promiscuous' activity I am referring to sex at an early age.
A Rabbi I met once said, "You work with the groups that think they are best by indulging their self-interest, and those that want to unite by indulging that self-interest." Contextually, middle-aged parents today are not within the current generation of video game developers in general, so to achieve a true understanding of the reasoing behind their devious tactics, you must have experience.
My advice to you is to try to achieve an empiracal understanding of why sex is included in video games, and how successful and profitable the market
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Re: Re: What about parents
As far as voting goes, most adults of ANY age are not ready for that... just look at who was voted into presidency for 2 consecutive terms now! But I am straying too far from the topic here....
Anyway... I am not saying that some violence and some adult content is not suited for 18 year olds, but there are some games out there, just as there are some movies out there and some real life situations, for which and 18 year old is not ready.
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Re: makes sense to me..
im 24 and i buy booze for 17 year olds. so rest assure 17 yr olds will get the goods and yet do i care? hell no im anti everything this country stands for! there should be no rattings on games it really destroys the cover with a gaudy lil symbol on the bottom telling me what am buying. now they wanna card when u buy a game fuck u! i will pirate untill the MPAA/RIAA come and stop me and even then i will laugh. you cant stop it the more u try too the more people will start. 17 yr old sdont have 18 yr old friends lol
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Kids are smarter than you think
That being said, since most kids have grown up with this stuff happening around them for most of there lives. They know how to handle a video game and know what is right and wrong real and imaginary. If they don't then parents it's time to take away the digiatl babysitter and accually talk to your kids. You would be surprised how they might just listen to you if you talk to them like they are people and children.
Thanks
Scott
25 and grew up on video games
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Re: Re: What about parents
To be more precise: you have no business in determining what my children can and cannot expose themselves to. This is my area of jurisdiction.
I do believe I can agree with that. And if that part of my post was offending to you as a parent, I apologize. Maybe I should rephrase it as:
some 18 year olds are not ready for some of the content on some of these games, and in the end it is up to the parents to decide whether or not their 18 year old is ready for it.
While you might be right that it is a good sales technique to use sex and violence in these games, a line has to be drawn somewhere. And I don't necessarily like that idea.
Maybe I am just too oldfashioned... I'm not afraid to admit it ;-)
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Re: Re: What about parents
Actually, you can enlist and be active in the military at age 17. At age 18 you could have 1 year of active duty under your belt.
The problem is when the government, organizations and individuals deem video game violence as a reason and influence on actual violence.
The actual violence comes from disturbed individuals with an already existant problem. These individuals would be just as disturbed and likely to commit a crime in the 13th century as they would today. The only difference today, is that we have become numb due to violence as "entertainment".
A video game does not make a teenager kill his classmates. A disturbed teen with access to weapons in a country of gun-lovers, who needs psychological counseling is what kills.
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I thought it was illegal to "reverse engineer" software - so that means whoever opened up Hot-Coffee was reverse-engineering and it's not Take 2's fault, right?
Or is it ok to ignore that law in this instance since Jack Thompson stands to make a profit???
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Re: makes sense to me..
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Re: Re: Re: What about parents
I do not agree. I would not place my trust in any parent to decide what is acceptable for their child to do, see or hear. No matter how angry it makes anyone, 95% of parents have poor decision making skills about what is right.
The question I would ask is this: Who should decide? The law-makers that make these laws are human beings They are also parents, no different from anyone else. We have to remember at all times that their is no one entity making all the decisions.The President himself is not a supreme being with better ideas and decision making skills about what is right and wrong. Our leaders and lawmakers are no more capable of making the best possible decisions than you or I.
So when can we begin to become better human beings?
I believe firmly that those of us screening certain aspects of our childrens lives, leave other windows entirely open and are not at all oblivious to what else our kids do, which is a bit backwards and ignorant.
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Re: Re: makes sense to me..
moron.
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age 25?
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Wow.. for once
What I am saying is we look at these "violent" video games as JUST violent video games. They are not, they are tools to mold the brain, teach it new ways to think. The violence is just there to keep our attention.
How about instead of banning violent video games, we turn them into learning tools to shape the children into powerful thinking machines.
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different points of view
If you ban it at your house, your kids will find it elsewhere. "My friend has it, I play it all the time," a 15-year-old nephew has told me, regarding GTA.
I see it in other people's houses, as well. Hitting your teen's friends when they're rude; letting 10-year-olds watch "Family Guy" and "South Park"; preschoolers standing on slides pointing at their crotches saying "You wanna suck this." All this is from actual experience, not just watching the news.
Realistically, there should be a rigorously-enforced age limit, like alcohol. If dad has to produce ID every time he buys a game, and if he has his kid along he can't buy a title rated "M", then maybe this thing would work. Problem is, stores can have long lines, impatient customers, and uncaring store owners. I like playing those games, and I'm a parent. But I know the difference between right and wrong. So I dunno what the answer is.
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Re: Wow.. for once
Although when it comes to GTA, that is exactly what the game is. The point of the game is to violently kill other civilians, pedestrians, people in fast food establishments ordering their cheeseburgers, or to find the neatest possible destructive weapon and use it to blow up anything or anyone you want and try not to get arrested doing it. You are awarded points for these things.
Whether GTA is 100% based on "be as violent as you can to have fun" is definately not a question. It's a fact.
Though, another fact still remains, no video game or amount of violent enterainment causes a person to harm another. Those are psychological issues and these person(s) should have been institutionalized before deaths ever occured. Identifying these individuals with these problems before-hand is another issue.
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-public hangings/executions
-public torture
-roman colliseum events
-the rodeo
-boxing
-wrestling
-crowds around fights at school...
need i go on?
the difference isn't the TYPE of entertainment, just the media to which it's getting to us
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Re: age 25?
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Re: makes sense to me..
I was considering explaining why, but it's probably obnoxiously obvious to everyone else yet it still wouldn't get through to you. Did you not have any friends whilst 17, or was there some freaky situation where all your friends shared your birthday?
On the other hand, when I was 15 in high school, most of my friends were 17 or 18, not 16, so maybe you are right.
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Well Actually...
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Love not War!
Halo? World of Warcraft? Sure, because it's easier to make a distinction between those fantasy worlds and reality. Glorifying or role-playing a gangster or inner-city pimp seems wrong.
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The obvious solution
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Wow...
With all of the pornography, violent videos and pictures readily available on the Internet, I can't believe there is a such a concern about video game content. Someone should bitch slap the FTC and tell them to stick to what they are supposed to be doing, making sure we aren't getting screwed on the price of these video games.
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Re: Re: What about parents
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Re: Re: Re: What about parents
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Absurdity
As for bans on sex, this is very much a moral imposition upon the populace by those who think that sex is evil. Your child is going to find out about sex whether you want her to or not. IMHO making it such an evil thing, to be avoided and feared, will only lead to more curiosity and more rebellion as she realizes that the justification for the vilification doesn't hold water.
It is very easy to say that games are too violent. The thought of 10-year-olds doing drive-by shootings with Uzis at transsexual hookers on the street corner out of the window of a stolen car really isn't a nice one. But what about the thought of them 8 years later in Iraq killing 6-month-old babies and 74-year-old women (as happened recently in Haditha)?
The older generation is quick to condemn the younger generation, but refuses to find its own faults. The older generation created sensationalist media outlets. The older generation is trying to take away free speech on the internet by selling the right to present information to the highest bidder.
I'm 19, and I will not take the blame for the mistakes of my parents' generation -- rather I'll fight their unjust drug laws, idiotic moral judgements upon things they have no right to pass judgement, and false cures to the symptoms of the disease they have created.
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Re: What about parents
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Re: Re: age 25?
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Re: Kids are smarter than you think
What a loss...
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Re: Re: What about parents
What he should have said is that NO ONE should be dealing with the content of these "games". They're immoral. Whether or not you don't like someone telling you or your kids that is unfortunate. God is offended by immorality. I don't think much else matters.
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Re: Re: Re: What about parents
Gee, who died and made you God?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What about parents
That job is filled, and I'm not qualified. But what He has already said about immorality is pretty easy to find, and doesn't require me to be God to repeat it.
Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
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From one extreme to the other...
Because of blood and gore shown in one video game back in the mid 90's we now have the ESRB ratings that you are all know and love. Can you recall the name of the game?
No matter what the world hits hard and it doesn't pull punches. It was the same way in the Dark Ages as it is now, we just made it look pretty to the eyes. Someone mentioned being sent outside to play with bb guns. Between cops shooting kids with toy guns and everyone looking to take a pound of flesh from you through a lawsuit, anyone wanna take a guess why kids play video games.
Kids have a it rough while they are growing up. Life is hard, push or be pushed. So your kid lost a little of his naivete. Be resposible parents and inform them about it. Don't censor it from them, help them understand and become wise beyond their years. They'll be better human beings that way.
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Kids aren't stupid
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Censorship
Second; I am 21. I was raised in a rather sheltered environment, I think. It is still true that someone will mention, for example, the name of a drug, and I won't know what they are talking about. Often, that person is younger than me. I was also not allowed to play with super-soakers when i was little. not because guns are bad, but because they aren't toys.
Conversely, I was allowed to watch rated R movies from the time i was 12... so long as they didn't get rated that way because of violence. I saw a naked breast for the first time when I was less than a year old. Yeah, I breast fed. I say a naked vagina when I was less than a minute old. Yeah, I was born naturally, not c-section. My parents always felt that sex, as long as it didn't have violence associated with it, was just fine.
Now I see GTA:SA being labelled as the video game equivalent of X, and i wonder... When I was 16, I was downloading porn. When I was 17, I was downloading Leisure Suit Lary. What makes the ESRB / FTC / whomever else think that giving it a higher rating will make it less availiable to kids? It didn't for me. It didn't for ANY of my friends. and kids are getting smarter at ways to crack codes and get what they want.
I guess my point is, who gives a F*** what kids are allowed to watch / play? I they are interested, they WILL access that content.
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the most guilty parties ...
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Re: What about parents
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kids have it rough?
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Re: What about parents
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oh yea
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Re: Re: makes sense to me..
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It's wonderful that you know exactly what God wants for the earth. However, please realize that your religion is in the minority of world religions. Also, realize that your religion is based on faith -- you can no sooner prove that God exists than you can find sense in the statement "This statement is false." Therefore, to use your God as an argument in the real-world is a logical fallacy -- it holds no water and no ground. Pray for my soul in church, but don't bitch me out for playing a video game. Mind your own business, and if you're right, you can laugh your head off at me while I rot in hell -- but leave me be right now.
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Re: Re: Re: What about parents
Ah yes, one of the cornerstone supporting lies of religion "without gods there is no morality".
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Maybe if the gov't knew what they were talking abo
The game was allowed to go on the shelf as is. The MOD is what they have a problem with. The MOD does NOT come with the game, nor is it condoned by Rockstar or any of the creators of the game. If they really wanted to stop it, they'd take action against the guy who created the mod, which would fail miserably because almost all games for the PC are now open source in one way or another for MODs and there is no law saying you can't create a MOD that displays anything meant for mature audiences.
If a parent is really going to complain about the game as is, then they shouldn't have bought it for them. These parents complain about the violence of the game, but they're the schmucks who bought it for their kids in the first place.
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parents parents parents
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Re: makes sense to me..
y would 17 year olds not have 18 year old freinds???
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Re: Re: Re: What about parents
Really, 18 year olds are not mature enough to see "real life"? My God. First off, look in Africa and 3rd world countries, this may be off topic, but I have a point. Some kids witness their family members' own deaths! Then they grow up a hell of a lot more mature. They have almost nothing and appreciate evrything that they get (positive that is). I'm not saying we go around America popping subliminal messages of death and blood and gore to little children or killing all the parents in front of their eyes so they mature, I am saying though, that these games, are FAKE! Honestly, if someone is getting off every night playing GTA watching cartoon sex, they're already somewhat messed up. And my other point, I'm 18, going to be a Sophomore in college 2,000 miles away from home. I'm "on my own" I deserve to experience "real life situations" because I am living real life. We're adults, times change, Gen X and below doesn't like us because we've modernized? Well guess what, there are some things that we don't exactly love about Gen X traditions. Yes I'm liberal. I don't like most aspects of pop culture, I don't like TV ads, I don't like Bush, and I don't like how he's listening to our calls, or how the government is enabling the RIAA and MPAA to ruin media services for all of us. Increase quality, decrease price, and stop telling us what we can and can't observe, maybe I'll buy something. Have a nice day.
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Re: The obvious solution
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I HATE when people say this...
What, you think this is strange? It was only unusal for a short period of time. We're just returning to the ways of the past. Hell, it used to be common practice to be married at 13 or 14. Society changes. Get over it.
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Do teenagers deserve a little more credit?
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People need to get real
If it's so important to parents to attempt to screen these things from their kids, that's their responsibility. I don't understand where the government decides to take over those responsibilities (and fails miserably). But that's just the opinion of someone who just got out of the age bracket we're so concerned about here.
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You know, I think it's immoral to push your beliefs onto someone else who doesn't share the same religious beliefs as yourself.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What about parents
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Nothing new under the sun.
If I may draw a biblical example... the Old Testament is full of stories about the Children of Israel kicking the snot out of The Hittites, Amalekites, and various other people-groups ending in "-ite" (I often wonder what the grownups were doing while the "Children of Israel" were running around doing this stuff, but I digress). There was murder, incest, nudity and betrayal... and that was just in the first five books!
Every Jewish boy was supposed to have this stuff memorized before Bar Mitzvah... but you had to be 21 to read the Collection of Lurve poems that we know today as The Song of Solomon.
Nothing to see here folks, move along...
Getting back on point, I see a lot of parents looking for "electronic babysitters"... too ofteh I hear "anything to keep them quiet and out of my hair". Get involved in what your kids are doing... and under no circumstances put an internet-connected PC in a child's bedroom!
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Re: What about parents
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Which brings me to my next point don't smoke the crack.
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Re: the most guilty parties ...
The real problem is that not enough people are saying "No". I have seen kids playing games and watching movies that were obviously unsuitable, but the parents said nothing.
Parents and other responsible adults who take a stand are in a minority. It seems that the rest of us are looking to the Government to do the job.
BAD move.
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Who can I vote for now that the Democrats have and Republicans both want censorship?
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Re: What about parents
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Boys like S3X
We now turn to our senior dirty little boy correspondent, Captain Obvious.
Captain Obvious: Thank you, Ted. This problem has existed ever since the invention of the P3||IS and there is nothing the government can do about it. The only know way to stop teenage boys from thinking about $3X is by forcing them to watch their grandparents doing it. Unfortunately, today's Americans are so fat and lazy that anyone over 60 trying this would die of a heart attack before the third time.
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Re:
It is immoral to make a statement about morality? With what what kind of twisted logic do you get this? You are certainly free to disagree with someone's beliefs, but I don't think you had anything "pushed" on you, and it certainly isn't immoral to make a statement about morality.
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Re:
It did not. Stating an opinion about morality does not make one a fascist. You are free to agree or disagree as you wish.
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The Children
The game, and all games of this type, stand no effect over me, personally. People like me, are very plentiful in number. The other children, who are effected, usually have problems in the home or otherwise with people in thier daily life. A lot of people have families that don't believe in the fact that games effect children...
It's bullcrap though, all of it, these games effect a lot of us, and thouroughly ruin some of us, I am not on any side of this war between the governement and game makers, BUT I DO whole heartedly believe that children and parents have the ability to discss it in the home. When children have problems and get urges to act upon what they see in games, it should most definetly not be ignored by the parents (And the parents should be able to see the effects in children, if they can't they need to grow up)
Now I also know that since I am a child this comment will probably be load of bull to some of you, and I can understand that, but I would liek to stress the fact that kids can be smart too.
I would also like to say, that because of violence in these games, SOME CHILDREN (I being one of them) can vent their anger out on a game controller, and a bunch of pixels on an electronic screen.
This battle goes both ways, and I feel that as some circumstance, the actual children are being left out. Are we not what the fight is about? Are we NOT WHAT THIS WAR ON GAMES IS ABOUT! NOBODY TAKES OUR VIEWS OR LOOKS AT US FOR INFO. NOBODY ASKS US WHAT WE THINK!!! AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE OUR DECISIONS FOR US, WHY DO YOU CARE TO INCLUDE US AT ALL???
(I am also sorry that because of some errors in my typing, some people will not heed my words)
Thanks for reading
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I would like to know more about how many years of school and training are needed to to become a video game designer.
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I would like to know more about how many years of school and training are needed to to become a video game designer.
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Re: Re: makes sense to me..
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