The Fake Broadband Price War
from the it-doesn't-really-exist dept
One of the favorite lines trotted out by the telcos and their think tanks concerning the lack of competition in the telco world is that there obviously is competition, otherwise how would you explain the fact that DSL prices keep getting cheaper. The problem is that this is false. While it's true that many DSL providers now offer introductory, time-limited, promotional pricing, the price can go up quite a bit once the promotion ends. Not only that, but since they refuse to offer you DSL without a phone line, you're going to end up paying a lot more than the promotional rate no matter what. When someone from a think tank made the claim recently that DSL prices are now only $18/month, I asked to see the $18 bill. Not surprisingly, there was no response -- because such a bill doesn't exist. Once the forced bundles come in and the various fees, you're talking much higher prices. Now, there's a new study that gives actual numbers noting there is no real price war in broadband. The true price of DSL remains around $35 -- just slightly lower than cable broadband. Don't let the introductory prices, hidden fees and required bundles fool you. There isn't enough competition in the broadband space -- which is just the way the telcos and the FCC like it.
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DSL and phone line
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Verizon smoke & mirrors
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So that's why...
1st!!
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So that's why...
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Re: So that's why...
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AT&T
First, AT&T offers special "promotional pricing" if you order over the internet. Fine... if you can get them to let you. Every time I tried to order DSL it would tell me "you need to call in order to make sure DSL is available". When I tried to get the internet pricing over the phone it was a no go. This has also happened to 3 other people that I have talked to.
Additionally, I was lied to (by omission) by the sales staff in regards to what was REALLY the cheapest option. I finally had to threaten to hang up before she admitted that yes, I could get bare-bones phone service for $7/mo but it "really wasn't a good deal, I don't think you'll like it", oh and surprise, the cheapest phone service requires a $39 set-up fee and it COSTS EXTRA to get no long distance. yes, you heard me. It was cheaper to get 60 minutes a month of long distance than to pay the "fee to have long distance disabled". You've got to be f-ing kidding me. The also failed to mention that there is a $50 router available and ordered me the $80 for no reason since I ALREADY HAVE a wireless router. I had to do a ridiculous amount of threatening to get them to just order me the freaking lowest cost options, and I still think I got screwed. I'm paying $35/mo, just like everyone else. I am not planning on keeping them after this year.
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alternate solution
Cheap internet is available, you just got to know how to play the game :D
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Re: alternate solution
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Re:
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Re: Re:
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As a Bellsouth Tech...
Oh, and how fast is "6MG"?
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Re:
Anyways, if the Telco's want to bring in new customers with their 'promotional pricing' bullshit, they should KEEP THOSE COSTS. If you can provide a cheap service for those who can abrely afford it then you will hold them in -_-.
And this 18$/month cost? LOL yeah.. I think they missed a period there, 1.8$ a month, FOR THEM TO PROVIDE IT FOR YOU.
That's my two cents.
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Re:
I pay 57 for phone bill + dsl 6 MB down and 768kb up.
130 sounds like you're getting ripped off.
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Re: 130 dollars for 6MB?
BTW. ATT DSL is 29.99 for the 6mb connection. Not sure what it goes up to after the one year.
I have Time Warner myself. I pay 120 bucks a month for Digital Cable (no premium channels) and 5meg connection.
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Re: I pay $130 a month for my DSL w/o a phone line
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Re:
Parents pay $99 month, Unlimted Landline, FIOS NET and FIOS TV through Verizon, really the best deal out there right now if its avail in your area, and its like 15megs too.
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Re: Re:
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illegal alternate solution
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Re: illegal alternate solution
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Re: Re: illegal alternate solution
Conatct me at harpermi@speakeasy.net
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Re: illegal alternate solution
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Re: illegal alternate solution
Besides the comcast guys that do the service work could really care less from what i've seen. I had a neighbor take the blockers off his cable lines 3 times so he could get all the premium channels, everytime a service guy would come out he would pleed ignorant and they would just put the frequency blockers back on.
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I've never had to call tech support. I have no complaints.
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DSL prices
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$18 a month does exist
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Damned if you do, Dial-up if you don't.....
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Re: Damned if you do, Dial-up if you don't.....
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Crap bandwidth
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Re: Crap bandwidth
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Prices
speeds are good. service is good.
but i dont own dsl.
i got cable. and i have never paid over 42$
i also get 100 basic cable channels.
Bill is 42.72 every month.
Adelphia
yall just gettin ripped off. lol
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You guys have it cheap
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Re: You guys have it cheap
I can't tell you how irritated I've been with this. As a software developer, dial-up VPN DOESN'T WORK. Cable is the only way to go but it is 60$ a month for sub par service, shitty automated phone-help systems, and daily bottlenecks of speed. I hope Comcast shareholders burn in hell.
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Re: You guys have it cheap
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I have 10Mb down, 750Kb up for $50. With DSL, I only had 1.5Mb down and 256Kp up for about $40 (plus two phone lines).
I switched to cable and Vonage and easily save $100/month and get a better Internet connection. One afternoon of downtime in a year. DSL would be down at least 1-2 days per month.
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Qwest
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Re: Qwest
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Re: Re: Qwest
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Cox
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I switched from Cable to DSL
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Verizon Dry Loop DSL
Verizon has 768/128 for $14.95 for the year
you can renew at the end for the going rate.
3.0/768 $29.99 per month same deal.
You just have to keep up the 1 year contract and renew
it to keep the low rates.
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I agree...
Jamz
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Verizon Dry Loop DSL
Verizon has 768/128 for $14.95 for the year
you can renew at the end for the going rate.
3.0/768 $29.99 per month same deal.
You just have to keep up the 1 year contract and renew
it to keep the low rates.
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Roadrunner
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Re: Roadrunner
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Price . . . or Other Dimensions
What the study seems to suggest is that DSL is the low-cost option (and getting lower), while cable is the high-bandwidth option (getting higher in bandwidth while dropping in cost more slowly). True, that diminishes head-to-head price(-only) competition because each is focused on a different niche. But they're still in competition . . . right?
The Kagan Research analyst concludes "Eventually, cable will probably have make some reductions to cater to the lower end of the consumer market simply to get more customers." So the study author believes more direct price competition is coming.
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Re: Price . . . or Other Dimensions
I know him well enough to know he's not lying, but again he's (a) getting a promotional rate that (b) is only good with local telephone service. I can guarantee that he doesn't pay just $14.95 to his phone company each month.
The Kagan Research analyst concludes "Eventually, cable will probably have make some reductions to cater to the lower end of the consumer market simply to get more customers." So the study author believes more direct price competition is coming.
Funny, we've been hearing that story for four years now, and the competition has only decreased during that time.
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Re: Re: Price . . . or Other Dimensions
I quoted the research study underlying your post. Surely you don't think the author of the study is accurate to the extent he shows lacking price competition and telling a "story" to the extent he believes it's coming . . . .
The study shows that price has gone down for both DSL and cable. That's evidence of some price competition - perhaps not enough.
That said, I'm not sure why *price* competition is so important. The study appears to reflect that some consumers want more bandwidth, a niche being pursued by cable. Other consumers want savings, and DSL is more for them. (You could just as easily complain about lacking "throughput competition" because DSL isn't increasing its throughput as fast as cable.)
The study that would really be insightful is one that showed whether broadband service was priced at (or barely above) the cost of providing it. Measuring profit per unit of bandwidth sold would be the best measure of how effective price competition is, as opposed to deductive metrics like counting the number of competitors.
I'll bet such a study would find profit to be relatively high because it's a new market with lots of innovation happening along a lot of dimensions. Innovations give companies opportunities to profit. It's good to give them that incentive because, as competitors close the gap, they take away the innovator's profit opportunity, leaving the benefits of profit-driven innovation with consumers. Since the late 60's, productivity in the U.S. has doubled, while corporate profits (as a %) are essentially flat. That means that the benefits of innovation, driven by profit, have been passed to consumers.
And just to preempt any critic who might want to leap on the idea that there is innovation happening in broadband provision, the study cited as authoritative for this post says "Cable systems have increased their download speeds to a maximum of 30 mbps, versus a 10 mbps top common just a year ago . . . ." That's good evidence of innovation at work - I don't think the cable providers tripled their use of year-old co-ax, routers, switches, etc.
There's lots more market evolution to come before bandwidth is a true commodity and price becomes the only dimension along which providers can distinguish themselves.
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contract
After the name changed to ATT they started to play rought, this year at the end of my contract they bumped my dsl up to $34 withouth notice, I have paperless billing and they say they mailed a notice not the stated billing address, but the service address...
It seems DSL month to month here is $34 and when you go on 1 year contract it's knocked down to like $17.
In typical cardealer fashion they bill $34/month and then show a $17 discount, instead of just $17/month.
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Fiber Optics
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Re: Fiber Optics
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Jealous in the country
Well, you can imagine how much fun I'm having. My satellite has been out but I have still paid for two months of service ($60/month) and for a technician to come out and repoint the dish ($120) and once again the modem is out. Now I am fighting with Hughes to get the technician to come out and ACTUALLY troubleshoot...at which point I'll probably be told that I need to purchase a new modem (care to pony up another $400-$600, sucker??)
My point is, don't complain about DSL or Cable when at least you **have** a choice. I either dance with the devil or sit out in the cold.
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Broadband pricing
Also, I don't buy it for one bit that all of this stuff would have never been developed under the Ma Bell monopoly. Bell Labs had, and still has, stuff that was and is light years ahead of the game.
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Drop 'em like a hot potato
Use their own system against them. I hate comcast, but they are currently giving me a great deal. When they no longer are giving me a good deal, I'm gone. First thing I'll do, though is see if they will extend the deal or give me another deal NOT to switch. I hate having to actually switch, but I will if it serves me.
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Things are looking brighter across the pond...
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I have Cox, love them, 8meg down 1.5 meg up. Digital HD cable TV on two boxes with DVR. I pay nearly $200 a month. Yeah it is expensive, but I have all the channels except for premium HD services.
My phone service is cellular and I get by with it.
Now it vaguely sickens me that $200/month would provide 40MB down High Speed Internet for 8 or 9 residents in Korea, but I am assuming there is a good bit of governmental support in that regard.
So long as network neutrality is equal to "we'll provide the bandwidth necessary so that all traffic is able to flow freely at practical cost" then I'm for it. This BS about needing to prioritize traffic for a fee is just the telcos being lazy. Such is the nature of things.
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I live in Ireland....
there is one main operator: Eircom
...and a few secondary operators working off eircom's lines
Well, I'm with Eircom being charged €40 per month for a 2mb down and 256kb/ps up
..and in Ireland, that is a most awfully cheap connection fee at very high speeds
Yes, I have to admit, Ireland is being challenged with competition. They are tyrying to connect even the most remote of areas onto the 'getting popular' service. as for speed of connection, little advances are being made.
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DSL vs Cable
I won't go back to cable Internet at this point. Crappy customer service, always getting a busy signal on the tech support phone number, etc. has made a believer out of me. TW thinks they have a monopoly in West Tennessee and East Arkansas, but I believe DSL will overtake them as the telcos get more equipment into the field.
On the DSL side, I've had 3 calls from AT&T verifying that my service is up and I have no problems. That's right: They called me. Very comforting compared to TW.
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Cable
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iProvo and MSTARMetro
Qwest and Comcast hate it though...
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Re: iProvo and MSTARMetro
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no cable here
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I'm Happy
Together with Digital for the TVs, we pay ~$100 / Month. Add in $17 for Vonage, and it's not that bad. (Though I am interested to see how much the Vonage bill goes up due to the FCC decision on internet/VOIP service)
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Cox Communications in San Diego
Premier Service (9mbps/1mbps) $23.20 w/ Cox Combo $44.95 w/ Digital Cable & Telephone $54.95
Preferred Service (6mbps/512kbps) $16.20 w/ Cox Combo $29.95 w/ Digital Cable & Telephone $39.95 w/ Cable or Telephone $49.95
Value Service (1.5mbps/256kbps) $24.95
There are a couple of limited time offers that lower the cost for the first 4 months. I tried cut some money off my bill and they transfered me to a "specialist". He tried up and down to talk me out of dropping services and to keep the combo. i had him on the phone adding up different posibilities and they were about $10 cheaper. I kept the damned bundle for now but am desperatley seeking alternate service. I curently pay $140 for Digital Telephone, Preferred Service internet, Digital Cable w/ 3 aditional packages, HD Channels, HBO, Starz and a HD-DVR.
I inquired Comcast, but they do not service my area. I also inquired SBC, but they said that I have to call in to speak with a rep...i've heard that one before!
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Ban em all
No phone line needed
No cable needed
1.5 down, 1.2 - 1.5 up
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$24.16 including taxs/fees
I could pay more for a 6Mbs connection but I found I get the same download speed for large files (typically 150- 180kbs) and it seems just as fast as Comcast cable did. My impression is that how fast/overloaded the servers are is just as important as the line speed to the central office.
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Speed!
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Your ISP dictates: you may not run any server on y
http://www.cox.com/policy/#Subscriber_Agreement
Section 6
http://www.verizon.net/policies/tos.asp
Section 3.6.5
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Cox
I feel weird writing this and hope I don't jinx myself, but the cable connection screams and is always, always on. I nervously say that I love it and cringe at the thought of waiting for pics to upload over ADSL.
of course if I knew how much they spy on me or what BroadJump software monitors, I would probably puke
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RCN cable is alright
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ATT Yahoo DSl False advertising
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god you all no nothing
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