'Pirates' Thriving, In Spite Of Pirates
from the file-sharrrrrrring dept
It's being pointed out that the new Pirates of the Caribbean sequel not only is the top movie at the box office, it's also atop the P2P file-sharing charts. This isn't the first time a movie's been widely downloaded and still done well at the box office, and it won't be the last, either. So despite what movie execs say, their films can "compete with free" -- and do pretty well. Whether it's offering something more convenient, offering moviegoers a better experience, or using free content as a jumping-off point to sell people other stuff, there's lots of ways movie studios and theaters can thrive in the face of file-sharing. But to do that, they've got to own up to the obvious, and quit blaming piracy instead of changing how they do business.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Seconds
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pirates
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Pirates
*sniff*
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Pirates
Actually, with the proliferation of DivX and XviD compatible DVD players, I'd say more and more people are viewing their pirated material on their TV sets. And if you own home theater equipment, all the better.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Those aren't the sales they're looking for.
Personally, the reason to buy the DVD is to egt the 'extras' they usually include; i.e. added value.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Those aren't the sales they're looking for.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Those aren't the sales they're looking for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Those aren't the sales they're looking for.
Are you freaking kidding? The ONLY reason to buy a DVD (and consequently go through the trouble of ripping it for storage) is for the extras. Of course, I don't define an FBI warning as an "extra". But movie-related extras are an added value and sometimes justify the high price of buying a movie you already saw in the theater. How about allowing customers to use movie theater stubs as coupons for $ off the DVD? That might encourage more sales.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Those aren't the sales they're looking for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Those aren't the sales they're looking for
MORON.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Those aren't the sales they're looking
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
So how Tell me anonymous Coward....How well "should" they have done?
The Post is correct, if movie producers would only take the leap of faith, and realize content set free (not necessarly free) is future of their industry, they would be much better off.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: ScaredOfTheMan comment
Doens't really make sense when its your money.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
No matter what they try to do to stop piracy it will always happen, I hear they are tryign to get ISP's to block P2P now! that will never work.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re to Philippe the Pirate Monkey
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stating that going after file sharrers is pointless because they werent going to pay regardless for the movie is the worst argument ive ever heard. Its like saying, well its ok for me steal that car, I was never going to buy it anyways.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
There are no starving movie executives.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
First, there is a difference between stealing and Intellectual Property infringement.
Stealing inherently means I have taken something away from you; the act of taking something from someone unlawfully. I have gained and you have lost something and can only get it back if I give it back. I don’t buy into the propaganda argument that downloading a zero-cost mass-distributable copy is the same thing.
If I could make a 1-to-1 duplicate your car you couldn't claim I stole it because you STILL HAVE IT. Pretty sure the police would laugh at you for reporting it as stolen property when it’s sitting in your driveway.
So, if an individual never intended to pay to see a movie and instead downloaded a COPY from the internet - you can't claim you've LOST anything. It certainly isn't stealing.
I have no quarrels with anyone that Intellectual Property infringement is illegal, but I personally don't have any sympathy for Hollywood millionaire's complaining they aren't making enough. And you’re particular pro-Hollywood argument doesn’t hold much weight under careful scrutiny.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Totally bogus.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
WRONG.
Downloadable movies are immaterial and infinite. A car is an object, that you'd have to steal directly from entity.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Same as stealing a car?
If you then watch the stolen movie and decide to go see it at the theater for a better experience, the owner is plus one ticket sale, and is still not missing anything.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Money Lost?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Yes, there are politics involved with those OTHER "business models" you spoke of...but if you pulled your head out of your ass for half a second, you would probably find that the core of those models is giving the "content" away.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RE: Sohrb
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Carlo offered a rebuttal to that. Apparently pirates-movie is competing fairly well with free. Nobody here speculated how much more money could have been made without pirates-freeloaders on the scene. The criticism here is the media industries blowing the issue all out of proportion and using that to justify their apocalyptic policies. Nobody on _techdirt_, for chrissakes, is complaining about fatcat profiteer media moguls making more than they "should". Use your brains, kids.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tit for Tat
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Tit for Tat
You are buying a license to view / listen to the content in the format provided on the media provided.
If the media expires, so does your license.
They didn't scratch it, you did.
I'm not a fan of the RIAA or the MPAA, but this kind of "I'm entitled to it because I *want* to be" attitude is hurting us more than the **AA's ever could.
Please spare us your lame excuses.
It may be a double-standard, but your're the one buying it 4 times over...
Perhaps it might have been in your financial interests to stick with that cassette walkman for a while longer than you did.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Tit for Tat
If the media expires, so does your license. "
Really? I have enough doubts about how much of a standard shrinkwrap EULA would hold up in a serious court challenge, but it least they actually exist. You seem to have invented a contract out of whole cloth.
Are you a lawyer? Please don't ever represent me or anything I love, like gravity. With arguments like that they'll just shut it off.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
MPAA Sycophantic Morons
PROVE IT MORONSSSSSSSSSS!
That's right you can't, because it is likely that anyone willing to spend time downloading a downgraded cam copy and vie it in their bedroom is likely to spend money to watch it with a theatre full of strangers.
And since there is no DVD of the movie, any piracy now cannot affect a non-existent product.
Effin' Morons!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Report from an admitted downloader
I readily and unashamedly admit to doing this. I'll also make the statement that when there are movies I know I want to see (Superman, Monster House, Cars - though I was disappointed with that one) I'll go to the theater despite the lines, cell phones, and talking, because the theater experience is the perfect place to view them. If I want to find out if, for example, "Click" is good, I'll download it because it's not my kind of movie. If I *do* end up liking it, that will influence my future theater/download choices, and may even sway me to purchase a DVD of the movie. Without the option to "try before I buy" I wouldn't do that at all for films I have doubts about.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Report from an admitted downloader
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Report from an admitted downloader
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Report from an admitted downloader
But, if you actually read IDownload's post before putting forth your flawed car analogy, you would have replaced the word "stealing" with "test-driving". See, his whole point was that he is MORE likely to buy a product if he can try it out first. And this "try before you buy" business model works great for a lot of products. Supermarkets have in-store samples; record stores have listening stations; car dealerships allow test-driving. Money-back guarantees work similarly for electronics products.
Carlos's original post seems to suggest that this model could also work for movies. Presumably many of the people who downloaded Pirates either saw it in the theater first (and wanted a copy to watch until the DVD comes out) or went to see it on the big screen afterwards.
If anything, this model promotes accountabilily on the part of movie-makers, since consumers are less likely to be suckered into seeing crappy movies on the basis of misleading promos.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Report from an admitted downloader
Think of this, too. Do you agree that libraries are good things? I do, but I know of several authors who don't like them because they know that some people only read a book one time, and won't buy a copy of their works if they can access them for free. Although the library does buy a copy, how many further sales are lost? No, this isn't a one-to-one comparison, but I think a point can be made that a "try before you buy" system does work better than corporate types give credit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pirates, yes, but...
What's the impact on the non-summer-blockbuster? For many films, the margin between being in the black and being in the red is paper-thin. How many people not paying to see the film, or buying or renting the DVD, does it take before it fails?
And as such, how many good films will not be made, simply because they're not mass-market, least-common-denominator crap, and would never be profitable in a "okay-to-steal-whatever-you-want" environment?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Pirates, yes, but...
When Hollywood starts making more good movies than bad ones maybe they will see better profits.
Internet-downloaded screeners cannot compete with high-quality DVD. The problem is in the content - it's not worth the price so what do you expect?
This is a no-brainer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It only takes one
MPAA: "Movie attendance is dropping! IT MUST BE THE PIRATES!" (Panic, panic)
The rest of us: "Naw.. it's cos you're putting out crap."
Then PoTC/DMC comes along and breaks all records. Hmmm...
Moral: A good story, well told, will being put bums on seats and dollars in the bank.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pirates
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
If the movie theatres provided a more reasonably priced experience, more people would take risks seeing sketchy movies. Frankly, I'd rather fill my tank and drive to work for a week as opposed to spending $40 for some fast food and two tickets for a POSSIBLE 2 hrs of entertainment. Going to the movies has almost become a luxury experience...often ruined by some little kid kicking the back of my chair for the entire flick.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
yes if it wasn't for p2p, I would have ran out to the store and bound 1,000's of dollars on crappy software I would have used once!!!! Same goes for movies,
Do you really think people who download the movies would have gone to the theatre and pay 10 bucks to see it? maybe a select few would.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Retards.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pirates
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Its a dumb philosophy but I like it, lol.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pointless?
So, is it "legal" to RENT that movie, Copy it, keep the trashed DVD in a folder and put the copy in the Original package?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Pointless?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Pointless?
This is simply a license transfer -- I agree that you should be able to copy a rented movie if you've damaged the one you bought.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Here's Hollywood's fix...
I do not really see a point to this article really, it is comparing apples to oranges. If movie execs are talking about the "filmed in theater" pirate movies competing with the silver screen, I gotta ask, just how stupid do you have to be to be a part of one of the **AAs?? No camcorder can compete with the silver screen, ever.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Kind of like that sandwich shop down the street who changed the bread they use, or stopped carrying the menu item you liked most, you naturally would go less. That's how i see the movie industry. Add in high ticket prices, completely rediculous food prices, never-know-what-you-are-going-to get-movie selection and you've got an activity that people are going to be doing less NATURALLY.
If hollywood really wanted to fix things, they would stop hordeing all the money and give more to movie theaters so they could actually have like dollar bags of popcorn and stuff like that. The sad thing is that I think hollywood would rather see 1 million people pay 10 dollars than 10 million people pay 1. I don't know why.
You want a blockbuster? Stop ripping us off.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"Stop ripping us off and we'll stop ripping you off." :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Uhhm, it's very simple. if they did that they wouldn't be able to trick people into viewing crappy movies. That would be very bad for them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pay up and shut up!
Besides, you're never going to get a date to the movie anyway, so $10 back in your pocket right out the gate moneybags!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Pay up and shut up!
I don't live in my parent's basement. No, I own an entire apartment complex. But not knowing if a movie is worth MY TIME AND MONEY doesn't mean I'll mindlessly drop my cash on the counter hoping I walk away pleased with the experience. That's right, you don't become rich by wasting money, something Hollywood has NOT figured out.
So, they claim they want to make cash off these pieces of crap. Then how about you reinvent yourself just like any other industry has to when change is introduced. Otherwise you can sink to the bottom of the toilet with the rest of the useless turds out there, specifically, anyone who generalizes that a downloader MUST live in thier parent's basement.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RE: Shorb/Sohrab
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
To All Those Opposed To P2P
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Get over it!
I am quite content downloading the latest release in shoddy quality and watching it. Would I of hit the theaters had it not been available? nope. Would I of bought the DVD? not a chance. I dont see much sense in spending $ ever on these items. Much like i rarely ever hit a fast food restaurant. AND I HAVE 4 kids! I dont own a TV but I do have one in each of my childrens rooms. I can live without TV and its items. I am fine on my 19" CRT watching videos and playing games on my PCs.. Once I purchase a game, its only usually after I have tried it out for free. Then I have made my decision to purchase and will do so. Not so with movies as I dont care about 2 hrs of entertainment. I can get 200 out of a $20 game.
People have lost focus wanting to fight about stupid subjects they may have no relevance in at all..
As long as there are geeks, there will be pirates. Until you produce something and feel that you should get paid without anyone else trying it out first, then you can say something.. I can code and I would never expect people to buy my software unless there was at the very least a functional demo they could try.
Same should go with the movies. Sure more people would go watch them if they offered a 20 min trailer.. or heck.. let everyone see the first 20-30 min of a movie. .if it hasnt hooked ya by then, it probably wont.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Your self-righteousness makes me giggle
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What about the kids ;)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yo-Ho, Yo-Ho- A pirate's life for me!
I plan on doing the same thing when the 3rd one comes out... I also plan on buying the DVD and probably the "collectors edition trilogy" when that comes out. I support both camps, the downloaders and the MPAA. In fact, I would not be so supportive of the MPAA if I had not been able to download it.
If I download something that I do not like, I rarely finish it and I destroy the DL regardless of my liking it. If I like it, I will buy the DVD without question. So for me at least, my DL habits line the MPAA's pockets.
Missing, The Honest Pirate.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yo-Ho, Yo-Ho- A pirate's life for me!
Oh by the way, for every person that cheers you there are 10 more that are hating you. Expressing loathing is aggressive and people are less likely to do it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Missing The Point
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Theatres suck...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I know that studios make a lot of money, that movie execs make a lot of money, that actors make a lot of money, that musicians make a lot of money, and poor you, you just can't afford it, poor you, the crap they put out isn't worth the price they charge (and if its crap, why would you watch it anyway?) and that the fucking popcorn is too expensive (which has nothing to do the the movie studio since they don't sell popcorn) but the fact is, if you download movies, you are a criminal and you are stealing.
Justify it anyway you want, but those are the facts.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You are denying them the right to benefit from their property. Its theft.
Keep trying to justify it though. If everyone just downloaded movies, there would be little need for movie theaters. Just because something isn't widespread doesn't make it right.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Ah yes, mister moral high and mighty. Mister, the world is built on the vices of theft and lies. There is not one among us who can claim he is not guilty of crime when you draw such a line between black and white as you do, and I believe least of all yourself. No, mister moral high and mighty, when it comes down to it, you're probably as guilty as the rest of us.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
crime shmime
I like all this talk about how much money we are missing when people don't go to see our movies. Should we count starving children in Uganda amongst the numbers of lost ticket sales too? They didn't, after all, see our movie. And why not? Filthy freeloaders.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Copy v Actual Item
What if I 'download' your identity?
You are still you, I can't take that away, so have you been deprived of or lost anything?
Or if I make a copy of your credit card (just the important bits), if you still have the real card, have you lost anything?
Any money I take will be covered by the bank so whats the issue?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]