Indian Outsourcing Firms Hang Up The Phone
from the moving-on dept
Get ready for another round of calls for protectionism. Earlier this year there were reports that offshoring work to India was starting to get expensive as demand for labor intensified. Combined with competition from other emerging markets, the margins for simple services, such as call centers, have eroded significantly. So it makes sense that Indian outsourcing firms are moving up the food chain, refusing call center work, and all its attendant nuisances -- like abusive callers -- in pursuit of higher value work that commands greater profits. Some are accepting call center work only if it's packaged with something more valuable. Many who express concerns about the global economy see a so-called 'race to the bottom' whereby workers and economies compete with each other to offer the cheapest labor. But in reality, as the India example demonstrates, global trade has created a virtuous cycle of higher wages, better jobs, greater skills, and increased standard of living. Of course, India's engaging in higher value work will cause fresh consternation here, but those fears will be as misguided as they've been in the past.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Indian Spell Checkers
"with each other to be offer the cheapest labor" and
"deomosntrates"
I suggest that India provide customized spell checking. That would truly be value-added!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Spell Checkers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Spell Checkers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
wwhatever
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Corruption
Any one concerned about the impact of outsourcing in all of its forms should be pressing for an end to domestic corruption in India and China which drive entrepreneurs in those countries to try to do business with more trustworthy customers in the West.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yeah,right !
soon they will refuse those pesky programming jobs as well...and only ask for the architecture ones...yeah right ! that's when they'll go belly up with all the bullshit and move here again on H1s ....but by then we would have figured out how to make software without human intervention ( well maybe with the help of a couple of thousands vise men from the east )
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yeah,right !
soon they will refuse those pesky programming jobs as well...and only ask for the architecture ones...yeah right ! that's when they'll go belly up with all the bullshit and move here again on H1s ....but by then we would have figured out how to make software without human intervention ( well maybe with the help of a couple of thousands vise men from the east )
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Must... be... PC...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
callcenter work sucks, period
my wife worked for a bank's call center for like 6 months and she hated every second of it and jumped ship as well.
it doesn't matter what country you live in, or how much you get paid compared to your local standard of living... call center work sucks balls.
there is tremendous turnover (probably cuz the job sucks), the management is never available to you to help customers (which makes the job suck), and the people who call you are either complete idiot or complete jerks. often they are both.
customer service and tech support do not make money, they are an expense. as long as corporation considers service and support to be necessary evil, the jobs will suck and no one will want to do them, no matter how poor the country is that you outsource to.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
No reason to be PC....
Who said these people who outsource thier jobs off American soil give a damn about the American people?
They could careless how many out of work people we have as long as they get thier profit margins where they want them......
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Spell Checkers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Indian Spell Checkers
I am sick of calling a US based company and getting some sambo that has no clue on what I mean or say, much less I can't understand a damn word they say. I have heard they send people to schools there to teach them how to speak "american", yea right, "Howdy Ya'll! My name is Naresh, how can I help ya git-r-done?"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hurting the 'American People'
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Huh?
On another previous call, I had apparently gotten too far ahead of describing the problem and when he finaly did ask a question, I could tell he was at only the second question on his cheat sheet. It took me about 10 minutes to finally get to the actual problem.
I'm all for keeping jobs in America. I know that where my wife is from they opened two telemarting firms. The unemployment there was in the mid double digits. They still had problems keeping the jobs filled. I think they had the most turnover than any business I've ever heard of.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Indian Spell Checkers
The "racist" post that you are referring to has nothing to do with being racial at all. It was a comment aimed at the author (Joe) because he made a grammatical error and spelled a word wrong. The insinuation is that maybe the spell checking should be outsourced, so errors like this could be avoided.
I reiterate - You are a retard.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Indian Spell Checkers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Outsorucing bad?
To all those complainers stating that it is bad for business. Outsourcing increases profits, true, but at the same time they lower costs for the consumer, thus I see that as a good thing.
Once again to those complaining about taking away American jobs. The jobs that are outsourced are not wanted by Americans, as stated above many times.
To those complaining about sending money elsewhere. Ok, so there economy becomes stronger, thus they are buying more "widgets", who sells the most "widgets"?
This is futile, all of you against outsourcing pick up a Macroeconomic book and rethink your logic, because you are clueless. While you are at it, pick up the local newspaper and read about the unemployement rate, history, today, i don't care. Learn something instead of bitch about something.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
We control who answers the phone
If the answer is not "An American." don't buy it!
PROBLEM SOLVED!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Outsorucing bad?
Far as Americans not wanting the jobs, I can think of about 150 of my former co-workers that would love to have their helpdesk job back.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Outsourcing bad?
You don't even mention "insourcing" eg. Honda. If outsourcing is so bad, then should we close down all the foreign offices/companies providing good jobs in the U.S.?
People like to look at the jobs that are lost overseas without even considering the jobs that are also gained from foreign companies.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Outsourcing
If you shop at Wal-mart, if you enjoy regular increases in pay (as the average American has), and if you expect that you should be able to buy a microwave, TV, dishwasher, etc for less than you paid for it 10 years ago, you're not opposed to outsourcing... in fact, you LOVE outsourcing.
In order for us to retain the spot as one of the best paid, and highest skilled workforce, we need to be the most flexible. People will get laid off, but they will be working in more productive, and probably higher paying jobs... perhaps even supervising those that took the jobs in the first place! If we protect unproductive jobs, our economy will stagnate and decline... as China's eventually will.
If you can learn and adapt, outsourcing is a very good thing.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: No reason to be PC....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Outsourcing bad?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Blatant Failure from my stand point...
Umm, where exactly do you live. Call centers in India are a failure from a consumer stand point, some of those fears came true. I will not deal with a call center in India, they can't understand English. They speak it and translate it but they can't comprehend what someone is saying in English over the phone. I refuse to buy from any company using an overseas call center. HP is my biggest example. I bought this laptop and found out about the call center after trying to deal with them. I won't do it again. I research any major purchase now and if I find they use overseas call centers I pass on to the next brand. Very easy to check, just call and 800 number on there support website... Bad thing is, some of the credit reporting companies like Transunion use overseas call centers too so I can't opt out of using all overseas call centers unfortunately and this has caused some real issues in dealing with companies for me.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Hurting the 'American People'
The only jobs they'll create here are for very few executives hired to continue cost-cutting - which means more outsourcing.
I don't buy your logic.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Indian Call Centers
Considering the lack of any quality check on the call center business in India, this does not comes as a surprise. Some time back Apple pulled back their call center operations from India to elsewhere. Why did these events happen?
Just a little thought and we get to realize that the tech boom in India is not all that it is hyped up to be. Step out of the urban dwellings of India and you are back to the real poor, illiterate India where the average man earns less than half a dollar in a day; a place with AIDS on the rise.
The tech boom in India will soon die with increasing wages and what will be the end result? A lot of deprived people with an economy going into recession. Thank goodness I don't have any investments in any companies involved in India.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Hurting the 'American People'
1. operate domestic call center for tech support
2. build new domestic production facility
You can eat your cake and have it by doing either of those cheaper. Get an economic clue.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
India?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: India?
Jobs (esp call center jobs) are so hard to fill that there is a certain amount of "outsourcing" performed to prisons. They work for something rediculous (sp?) like 19 cents an hour (and you thought India was cheap!).
Those are obviously not the most educated or well spoken people, and those are among the reasons why the prison outsourcing trend has not caught on like wildfire.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
outsourcing
I think the important jobs that we should be trying to keep are the production jobs. And the high tech jobs that pay really well. If we can keep those we should be able to maintain and even continue to raise the standard of living for Americans.
Some jobs will leave though as businesses try to find the cheapest way to produce there goods that can't be helped but hopefully it won't be your job or you'll be able to find an even better one ;)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Call Centers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Outsorucing bad?
The actual unemployment rate is higher than 5%. Please remember that the unemployment rate is just a list of all people currently collecting unemployment checks. After they cut you off from the benefits you are no longer counted in that percentage. There is an article in the NY Times today titled "Men Not Working, and Not Wanting Just Any Job" that shows that there are a lot of people who have been out of work for multiple Years now who are no longer actively looking via the Unemployment Office and so are not counted at all.
If there are less people with jobs in the US Middle Class then there are less people who can afford to buy new cars and expand the rooms in their house and pay to renovate.
Eventually with a smaller pool of US consumers who can actually afford their products these American companies will end up dying off or being bought up by Foreign companies who have invested in the Euro since all monies except for the US Dollar are going up in value.
Only by borrowing money from Germany, Japan and China is the US dollar holding onto the value it currently has.
Everyone will have to have a skill that no one else has to stay employed. I wonder what your skill is.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Call Centers
@Asad, you are a Pakistani. I doubt you would want to invest anything in India under any circumstances. The bleakness that u just invested in outlining India is troubling Pakistan in multiples and not troubling India as much.
For all its faults, India is booming and will continue to. Having recently been to Bangalore, I can see what they are so proud about. They are not perfect but they have their priorities right. The people are concentrating on lifting themselves out of poverty - good.
Even as an American, I feel the comments on this post are well, biased to say the least - support personnel are rarely ever of any quality - Indian or otherwise. It's just that the fact that many are in India makes the Indianess a convenient focal point for ridicule - but the low quality is evident even with with local American support "talent" - in abundance.
See bro, all I am saying is - don't let your dirty personal bias get in the way. Say something if you have something to add - you can use other forums to spout your personal agenda.
Goes for everybody.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
It's a vicious circle! I am usually very frustrated calling call centres that are outsourced to other countries because generally I will not only get a person on the phone who is reading from a script and has no real knowledge of the situation, but often these people also have the most tenuous grasp of English and I cannot effectively communicate with them or explain my issue in a way they can understand. This is my experience you understand, I have no problem with Indian (for example) call centres when I'm able to communicate well enough with the person on the other end of the phone but when they can't form cogent sentences it becomes understandably frustrating. This causes me to become very short with whoever I'm talking to, (although I must add that I'm never actually abusive) and so it's an unpleasant experience for them and an unpleasant experience for me. If you're going to outsource technical support or call centres to another country where the primary clients contacting them will be English, EVERY PERSON WORKING THERE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH, not just the one office supervisor. I'm sure you'll agree that it's a common sense issue, not a race issue.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Not Surprised
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Hurting the 'American People'
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: India?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Hurting the 'American People'
Look at the efforts to block the sale of Canadian prescription drugs to the US. The whole globalization/equal footing type scenario just goes out the window. They only want it when they are the ones seeing the profits. When someone else is getting the money that evenhanded attitude goes away.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
callcenters and fun
managers don't know jack shit about the job they are doing, attrition is very high and people fall sick almost every third day.
people work in grave yard shifts, transportation and food is more like shit, even with low salaries, cost cutting is in place.
roads and buildings are horrendous, people are more like alliens, some people work in big organizations and look more from one of those donkey ages.
That's it from indian callcenters........ hope you enjoy it
Kondagondam Nair
Seagate technologies, FL
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: callcenters and fun
may be your parents might have got mothered here and they might have been thrown out, hence you have sadistic feeling for india, we do a much better job than you bastards.
loka - penjib
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Fuck off
[ link to this | view in thread ]
sick of outsourced indians
As to ALL the outsourcing of American jobs, I believe it is destroying (among other things) this nation, our work force system, our attitudes, our personal information/identity and most importantly, our founded theory of capitalism. Read something the other day, a direct quote from Mussolini (Hitler's bud in WWII): "Fashism should be called corporatism because it is the corporations running the government." Sound familiar? Isn't that where our nation is right now? Who would have ever DREAMED that this country would become fashist; Eisenhower certainly knew what he was talking about in his exit speech warning the nation about "big business" and the government, to bad no one outside of the "big business" corporations paid attention.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
call centers
Customers often ask me where am I located. Our company encourages us to tell them our true location (Mexico), and some people take it well and some don't (a minority, I must say).
Technical support for customers who have problems is a very hard job. Lots of stress, lots of tension on each call, few opportunities to climb up or develop different skills, even though one needs to be constantly learning about the features of the new products on a weekly basis, and deal with things that are out of control, such as stock shortages, etc.. Not to mention that the majority of people who call do not bother to read the user guide, are arrogant and illiterate, and others want to take advantage of the company's liberal warranty policies.
At the end of the day I end up getting 60 calls, and well, one is not always in the mood to help out customers, but a job is a job, and one gets paid to do it in the best possible way, and one always needs to remember that it's those "arrogant, illiterate, unconsiderate" people the ones that put food on our table.
Some companies leave customers on their own. To all the posters complaining about Bangalore call centers I say that at least they have that. Since big corporations are getting and greedier each year, it seems to me you will need to adapt to the circumstances and learn to understand a foreign accent when calling for support, or live without it and actually try to RTFM.
It's not our fault that your company wanted to save big buckaroos and transfered the technical support call center to a 3rd world country.
We are doing our best to help you. If hearing a foreign accent when you call for support pisses you off, go yell at the fat cats, not at us. We have it bad enough as it is..
Saludos!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Outsourced call centers make me laugh
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nerds are Hott
*moan of pleasure*
[ link to this | view in thread ]
POOFACE
poo faces!!!!!!!
I'M #1 I'M #1
;)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: call centers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Nerds are Hott
[ link to this | view in thread ]
outsourced callcenters
I'd like to say a couple of things... To start with, I think that you're taking the outsourcing discussion a bit too far... All I read in most cases are some nasty racist remarks about CSRs that don't have a nice american accent... and let me tell you something that might dissapoint you... americans seem to be so concerned about everybody else's accent, but they don't seem to realise that even they, living within the US, have different accents... (some of them particularly difficult to understand, even for native americans) and that you enpover english on a daily basis? (at work, burnout as I am, I've made fun of an old lady who didn't understand my pronunciation of 'new'... seemingly dypthongs do not exist for Americans!). A friend of mine, worked as a customer service rep. for an american company, he is canadian... guess what customers had to say about his accent? He was even bitched at the fact that when spelling out some customer's last name, he said "zeth" for what americans (and only americans) call "zee", that's letter Z.
So, let's face it... it's not because you feel that all these job positions could be filled up by americans, it's because you're racists.
I am located in Argentina (that's South America, for all of you who have never heard about it, or never took the time to look at a map beyond your township). The callcenter I work in, has about 600 employees. I can assure that we get zillions of calls every month... and you wouldn't believe how stupid a person who needs assistance can be. The company I work for, has 2 more callcenter in this country, it has some more in the Phillipines, Guyana, Colombia, Bolivia, Guatemala, Salvador, Peru (and it used to have one in Canada, but it didn't work out well... seemingly they were far too rude to americans..lol).
Now, how's your maths? Can you think of how many people is calling per hour/day/month/year? How come so many people doesn't read user guides? what's wrong with american customers? why don't they just open up the package before calling customer care? Is that they really think we 'care'?
Did you know that Phillipinos work from 2 am to 11 am? Would you speak clearly and understandably under those conditions?
Did you know that we can only say specific words? And I mean, not that we should... we MUST use certain words ONLY, and that's because of some sick Quality Assurance rules we have, surprisingly created by the American Management of this corporation... did you know that among those rules we cannot say plainly "No" as a negative? instead, we must use "Actually, no"? and that if we use the former, they'll deduct money from our salary? (not to mention that these rules change on a weekly basis) Did you know that most things we say are read scripts created by the american management and that's why we sound robotic and moreover, stupid? Did you know that we earn about u$s250/month? Who would accept a job in those conditions within the US? No one I think. That's why these jobs are being outsourced offshore... plainly because we earn less (currency favours us... u$s1=AR$3), and living here is cheaper, plus there are lots of people well educated, thanks to public statal schools.
Americans are racists, morons who don't understand the words "Terms and Conditions", even if you repeat them until your throat is sore, and YES, I mean it. The US is a country filled up by illiterate, uneducated rednecks living in motorhomes, buying prepaid cellphones for 20 bucks, willing to buy whatever shines on tv, who don't give a shit about anything else... that's my idea of americans customers... sorry to disappoint you, I just don't care.
Did you know that most CrapFone customers buy their phones for 'emergencies' (although they'll need a f***ing stranger with a weird accent to tell them how to turn it on/off during a 'so-called emergency situation'... it's obviously too difficult/dangerous to press and hold a key, o read the product manual)
Did you know that CrapFone (as well as other cellular phone companies) promoted their products as a security accessory, taking advantage of calls that were made from the planes in 9/11, and giving out thousands of phones to Katrina refugees?
Can't you really see the SICK part of it all? Are you aware that all of this is connected and has something to do with CAPITALISM? Did you know that since the USSR disappeared, the US doesn't have anything to struggle for? and that it'll find new objectives as it did with midwest for the last few years? (besides controlling oil). Now you know that offshore outsourcing is a product of Capitalism, don't you? Expect more to come my friends, it has no limits.... you better go to the 'America's #1 pharmacist', get a lube bottle and prepare yourselves to be pumped up in your a**es more than once, as time goes by... it has no limits my friends.
Now for all of you who think that just because we have a different accent, are stupid, think twice (or better, get a mirror).
Farewell.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Blatant Failure from my stand point...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Indian Call Centers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Call Centers
Bastards!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lets be ready to pay higher prices for products
Now do Americans want products and services cheaper?
Some American coprporations should offer dual pricing (with local support and another with indian support)
It would be interesting to see if Americans willing to pay higher price for product supported by local center?
I guess thats the best way to address this debate.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Corruption
LOL. That's stupid.
I suppose you never came across the idea that perhaps they take advantages of differences in currencies.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Must... be... PC...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Indian Call Centers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: sick of outsourced indians
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Outsourcing
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hang up soon - Please
He wasn't qualified for the job but I was more interested in how he felt about losing his job to the country he left. Americans call that irony. I actually lost interest and didn’t ask.
His English language skills were fair to poor. I did not have desire or time to suggest that he take some time and study the English language.
Get a clue.
[ link to this | view in thread ]