What's Next, Ad-Supported Text Books? Oh Wait...

from the free-free-free dept

Wed, Aug 16th 2006 2:16pm — Joseph Weisenthal

A company called Free Load Press is looking to use the ad-supported model to distribute college textbooks. After filling out a survey, students can download free PDF textbooks with ads for companies like Fedex Kinko's. Obviously, the company faces an enormous uphill battle trying to convince professors to assign their textbooks, as opposed to those sold by established publishing houses. And a lot of people will find ad-supported books unseemly. But the story highlights how messed up the current textbook market is. Although it's students who foot the bill for new books, it's professors who make the decision about what book to use. Of course, the professor doesn't have any incentive to shop around for price, and so prices spiral higher. Furthermore, the textbook oligopoly (Thomson, Pearson, and McGraw-Hill) feels it has to charge more to make up for the growing secondary market for used text. But endless price increases are the very reason for the secondary market and new experiments such as this one. This is not to mention the fact that the textbook industry, like the music industry, wants to sell the same product over and over again. That's why they keep putting out new versions of textbooks even though little has been added to them. As Scott Mcnealy put it in a recent interview, there's no reason to keep spending money on new textbooks as "Math hasn't changed since Isaac Newton." So whether Free Load Press works out is not the point; this is clearly a market anxious for a way around the textbook cartel and its attendant pricing.

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29 Comments

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Randy, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:41pm

It's about time...
Maybe by the time I graduate, I will be able to get a used math book for less than $80.
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Jared, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:48pm

Textbook Versions
I remember book buying when I attended college a couple years back. It was ridiculous, because in reality book publishers can charge whatever they feel like.

As the sumarry eludes to, professors don't care - they go with the latest revision. I wouldn't be surprised if professors were given some form of incentive to use the annual or bi-annual revisions.

Returning text books to the college bookstore was a rip as well - about as bad as reselling a used video game to a used-game store. And, if the book you bought was replaced with a new revision - too bad, there's no return at all, but they'll throw it away for you.

As long as ad-supported textbooks aren't obtrusive (distracting from the material a student is trying to learn, or requires views before reading each page of legit material), I'd try it out were I still in school.
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lil'bit, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:50pm

No incentive?
Professors write the damn textbooks! What do you mean they have no incentive to pick less expensive ones?

What they need to do is ban professors from assigning the text books they wrote, because of course they will choose their own - and every new edition that comes out, as well!
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Yodes, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:50pm

Book prices are insane
Many times they don't even let you sell the books back after a semester because they are using a "new edition" the following quarter. Tuition is getting more and more expensive too, significantly for us poor kids at junior colleges.
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Conor, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:52pm

International
I would always just buy the international addition online. The ONLY difference was that it was soft cover and it said International Edition in big bold letters. Beyond that every page was exactly the same. And the price was usually half of what my bookstore was selling for even after shipping.
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qyiet, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:56pm

I'd buy both
I still have all my textbooks, and I like having them. Both as referecne material, and I guess because I just like books.

I also love the portability and seachability of PDF documents, so I would purchase both. I don't think I could do without a hard copy.. but a soft copy would most definitely be valuable to me.

-Qyiet
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Az, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:57pm

Filtering
Im currently a student, and I know I would use it, but I know that I would either manually filter each ad out myself or use some sort of engine.
God knows the comp science students could make one~
The moment you make something digital it can be cut, pasted, changed and revised automatically
And students are the group who would do this the most.
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Sorce, 16 Aug 2006 @ 2:59pm

The only thing they change is the answers
I had a couple people in one of my classes that had gotten a previous revision of the textbook from another student. We compared them and verry little was changed in the chapters. The thing the company made sure to change was the ordering of the questions so you were forced to buy the new revision in order to do the work assigned in the book.
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Kilroy, 16 Aug 2006 @ 3:10pm

Professors writing books:
I had a professor once who wrote his own book for a weather class I was taking. It had a workbook feature that you had to tear out and turn in...meaning you couldn't resell it and he would earn money every year as students bought new ones.

Luckily, he was sensitive to the text book price jacking so his cost only $10 and was stapled together. Honestly, it was the best textbook I ever used.

I think that if a professer writes a book and they make it mandatory for their students, they should offer a low budget version of the book like the one I mentioned above. They can sell the hardbound version elsewhere, and, if its as good as they say it is, people will pay the money for it.

So, if a professor is going to write a book, their incentive should be that they want a tailored book for their class, not a bigger house.
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antimo, 16 Aug 2006 @ 3:12pm

Re: International books
I love the textbooks that say "Not to be resold in North America"
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Alex, 16 Aug 2006 @ 3:16pm

English students usually have it easy -- there wont' be any new editions of Moby Dick, for example. College bookstores will still gouge people of course, but there's a strong secondary market for that.

Students with scholarships at my school would go to the campus bookstore, buy a pencil, get the remainder of their "book money" back in cash, and then hit the used bookstores for all the classics they needed to read.

Campus bookstores would also do things like punch out the price printed on the english books, so you couldn't see how badly you were being fleeced.
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Space Pope, 16 Aug 2006 @ 3:25pm

Just another scam
This is EXACTLY why I didn't buy books in college. Saved me a fortune and somehow I still managed to graduate on time (4 years) with a 3.0 GPA.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Aug 2006 @ 4:12pm

Re: Textbook Versions
Ha! The college I'm at won't even throw it away for me!
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VideoVicious, 16 Aug 2006 @ 4:29pm

Ad Supported Text Books
The author getting ad reveune is the same as getting royalty payments. In the 20th Century, books were placed on reserve so you didn't HAVE to buy them, but the racket still continues.

Go for it.
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Jack, 16 Aug 2006 @ 4:34pm

Math hasn't changed since Newton???
Who is this ignoramus Scott McNealy ;) and why would anyone want to interview him if he thinks math hasn't changed much since Isaac Newton? I guess he’s never heard of Gauss, Cantor, Gödel, Turing, von Neuman, etc., etc.
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Jessica, 16 Aug 2006 @ 4:48pm

i miss grade school
In my grade school they loaned out textbooks every year so no one had to buy them. They should do that in college: you pay at the beginning of the year but once you turn in your book you get ALL the money back.
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BinaryWorld, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:21pm

Re: It's about time...
Out of all the textbooks I buy every year, the math ones are the most expensive. Like the article said, math hasn't changed a whole lot since Isaac Newton. Algebra is still algebra. Calculus is still calculus.
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Alex, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:22pm

One would think you people didn't hear about "New Math". For shame!
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BinaryWorld, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:24pm

Re: International
I "discovered" international editions a couple of years ago. There are now even int'l editions that have color pages. Even if the book falls apart at the end of the semester, at least I didn't pay much.
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BinaryWorld, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:25pm

Re: I'd buy both
I keep those that are relevant to my major. They make good reference material.
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BinaryWorld, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:26pm

Re: Filtering
I'm a CS major, and you read my mind.
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BinaryWorld, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:27pm

Re: Re: International books
Yup. I have several ;)
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bjgger, 16 Aug 2006 @ 5:27pm

The Decisions are not always in our hands...
While it is true that at most schools professors can select the textbooks, at many larger schools, that is becoming a thing of the past.

Many departments have standardized their book choices, and/or settled in with a primary publisher - if I want to use a different book, it is a long uphill battle. But part of that makes sense - because of distance education, schools want to make sure that there is a level of standardization in the classes being offered globally - as part of quality control. The schools even standardize the syllabus for the classes.

The other issue is the textbook companies - they always try to put out new editions. It the author doesnt want to update the book, they will bring in a second author. And once a new edition is available, the old editions are no longer available. I let my students know that they can use any edition they want, however, if I tell them to work on Problem 4 on page 158, it is up to them to check and make sure it is the same problem in the old edition as it is in the new edition.

And as far as stuff not changing - it always changes. I was teaching a class and the book we were using was 5 years old, and the students were complaining that we were using an old book! I explained to them that the basics were still the same, but they wanted a new book.

During my classes, we have a trivia challenge, just for fun, and at the end of the term, I give away some of my old textbooks - and some students have complained because the books were "old", even tho they were just one edition behind.

And I have put some of my books on reserve at the library, but students don't go to the library as much as they used it - and it is not a viable option for commuting or distance students.

But I do agree that the textbook companies are getting away with murder, and grossly overcharge for the textbooks, and my generating new editions (needed or not), they are destroying the used book market.
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Giovanni, 16 Aug 2006 @ 8:08pm

My professors try to save me money
I've had quite a few teachers scan particular pages of a text book and make them available online through our schools blackboard system to save us the 80 dollars it would cost to purchase the book. It should be noted that I study film... but this has also happened to me in my GE classes.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2006 @ 7:45am

a few things

first, a family friend works for a professor and writes "his" textbooks. she gets a small cut of the publishing, however the prof gets a HUGE cut (upwards of 30% or more)

math has changed, as stated above, but basic calculus doesn't change much from one year to another.

another friend of mine bought a "used" novel for an english class. she paid like 18 bucks for the book (used) however it was clearly marked 12.95 in the new price in the upper corner.

and yes, my department, electrical engineering, had a standard set of books for the "core" classes. my control systems prof said the book sucked so much, but he couldn't change it because the department wouldn't consider revising their booklist. shame on them.

it's funny how my book store offered "50%" on returned books, however it was 50% of what they would sell used. i just chuck my book on amazon, undercut the cheapest by like 5 bucks, and i'm golden. I was able to sell books at the bookstore too. just go in at the beginning of the semester, and walk around where your books are. see someone pick it up/have in their basket or arms, and say you have the same book on you for 20 bucks less than what they are paying.

also other professors would realize when a new edition came out and make dual homework assignments. i.e. those with rev. 4 do numbers 1-5,6,8,14,23 while those with rev. 5 do 1-3, 5-8, 11, 17 and 20. same number of problems, exactly the same problems, just different orders. all we did was label them 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8....and we were fine.

if the publshers were smart, they'd change all the questions, that way, the homework would always be different.

i hated the whole textbook thing, but luckly i had a private scholarship that "paid" for books. 500 a semester, and i could usally spend only 300 at most for books. 200 bucks is a nice chunk of change to a college student
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2006 @ 8:14am

My Professor sunk to new low
I went to the Campus Bookstore to purchase a book, because the professor of the class wrote it and it had not been published. It is not even bound; it is made to be stuck in a three ring binder. The bookstore is charging $39 for it and probably cost all of $3 dollars to have prepared at the on campus copy shop. Needless to say, I am in the process of writing letters to the head of the English department, the dean of students and the campus newspaper to object to an obvious lack of ethics.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2006 @ 8:35am

Re: My Professor sunk to new low
remember, prof's have to pay royalties if they "print" their own book. i had one class like that, where the "book" was about 100 pages with the 3 ring binder holes punched in it. turns out a lot of the stuff was copied from other works, so the prof had to licenese those portions out.

however another prof found a trick. he just posted the pdfs of the articles and book pages he needed. because they were on a restricted class website, he was able to get away with that. we had to either download them and bring them to class with a laptop, or just print them out ourselves (expensive if you don't have free printing from your university)
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Alison, 17 Aug 2006 @ 2:56pm

Student constructed text-books?
I'm an academic (professor means something different in Aus) and am currently experimenting with wikis to create a student constructed text-book. (I even got a grant to do it.) As a teacher of new technologies, I figured that most books would be too old by the time they were published. I also have noticed students complaining about out of date texts (that were published the year before).

The experiment is in its early days, and it's subject to the vagaries of student interaction, but it's already looking promising. Students are gathering information from around the web and creating information that is relevant to both their studies and their interests. (I even link to blog posts on TechDirt.)

Mind you, I'm an early career academic, so have not written any text-books yet, but if I do, they will probably harness many of the interactive aspects of the web and hopefully be well within the budget of my students.
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myo, 10 Nov 2006 @ 11:42pm

generation and substation
to read for my seminar
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