Video Game Rock 'n' Roll Mired In Patent Lawsuit

from the get-ready-to-rock dept

Fri, Sep 22nd 2006 9:41am — Mike Masnick

rijit writes in with yet another interesting patent dispute. In this case, the publishers of the popular game "Guitar Hero," RedOctane, sued The Ant Commandos (TAC) for patent infringement. TAC, apparently, is putting up a fight and is suing right back. There are a variety of things in both of these cases that make it a bit different, and quite interesting. First, RedOctane's history is as a maker of unlicensed third-party peripherals (just like TAC) for other music-based video games, such as "Dance, Dance Revolution." So, now that they have their own game with its own peripheral device, it's a bit amusing that they're attacking the maker of an unlicensed third-party device. TAC's countersuit is also quite interesting. Rather than the typical defense (first you say the patent isn't valid, then you say even if it is valid, we don't infringe) they're charging RedOctane with antitrust violations. This seems like a risky idea and one that might not get anywhere. They're also saying that RedOctane stole the idea from TAC, and name some specific things that RedOctane has done, including visiting TAC's factory and ordering a number of their devices. If they're making that argument to show prior art and invalidate the patent, that makes sense. But, the anti-trust claim is going to be much more difficult to show. TAC is asking the court to force RedOctane to ship the game without its own controller, allowing buyers to buy their own controller from whoever they want. It seems unlikely that a court would ever rule that you can't sell a game like "Guitar Hero" without a controller -- but it's still interesting to see a company try to use anti-trust law against a patent holder.

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25 Comments

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anonymous coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 10:16am

my neighbor Bob is suing my other neighbor Steve because his tree roots are destroying Bob's back fence.

about as interesting and ground breaking as the lawsuits above.
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- Joe Mama, 22 Sep 2006 @ 10:37am
  
  Yeah
  I'm going to sue you for that statement.
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- Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 12:09pm
  
  Re:
  I dunno.
  
  Those tree roots look to be literally ground breaking.
  
  :-)
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jsnbase, 22 Sep 2006 @ 10:47am

All things considered,
I'm happy that I can actually play guitar.
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- Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 11:20am
  
  Re: All things considered,
  I'm happy that I can actually play guitar.
  
  You THINK you can play guitar. Everyone else can't stand your cat screeching noise.
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  - jsnbase, 22 Sep 2006 @ 11:42am
    
    Re: Re: All things considered,
    You THINK you can play guitar. Everyone else can't stand your cat screeching noise.
    
    Wait a minute....Mom?
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krached, 22 Sep 2006 @ 10:49am

Anti-Trust
This is common in patent disputes. If the defendant can get the patent to be held invalid, then the actions of the plaintiff look alot like someone who is trying to create a monopoly.
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The Original Just Me, 22 Sep 2006 @ 10:52am

Roots
I'm interested to know if the roots went from one side of your yard to the other.
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- nunya_bidness, 22 Sep 2006 @ 12:35pm
  
  Re: Roots
  Bob works for RedOctain, and is suing Steve because the six huge roots going across his yard look like thier controller.
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Adam, 22 Sep 2006 @ 10:53am

What next?

Sue Nintendo for including a Wiimote with their Wii, as that would lock out 3rd party peripherals?
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Sanguine Dream, 22 Sep 2006 @ 11:18am

But...
I thought for sure I've seen new copies of Guitar Hero in stores with out the guitar controller.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 11:49am

Re: Re: Re: All things considered
Yes, dear. Someone had to break it to you....
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jsnbase, 22 Sep 2006 @ 11:53am

:*(
This is what it sounds like when doves cry.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 12:26pm

hahah GuiTARS!
i almost bought one of those TAC guitars.. maybe i still will.. or maybe ill wait for guitar hero 2 and just get a 2nd guitar with that

i love that game ;)
i beat every song on every difficulty
and beat every song on easy medium,most of hard, and about half of expert with 5 stars
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Grandfather Time, 22 Sep 2006 @ 12:30pm

hmmmmm.....
"It seems unlikely that a court would ever rule that you can't sell a game like "Guitar Hero" without a controller -- but it's still interesting to see a company try to use anti-trust law against a patent holder."

Interesting, seeing as how a buddy of mine, and I play this together all the time, and I always get stuck using the PS2 Controller, whilst he uses the kick ass guitar.....
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chris (profile), 22 Sep 2006 @ 12:34pm

light guns?
aren't light guns (the kind you use to play time crisis and duck hunt) third party peripherals (the original NES came with a light gun didn't it?).

surely the whole idea of a third party peripheral, even the unlicensed variety, is prior art thanks to the lightgun.
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- jsnbase, 22 Sep 2006 @ 12:36pm
  
  Re: light guns?
  The fact that it was made by Nintendo means that it wasn't third party.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 1:21pm

i don't remember a 3rd party light gun for the nes, but i think games like area 51 and time crisis had their own guns that were made with the help i.e. under the console's specificaions and were oficially licenesed by the vg console.

other than that, i've never sceen a company go after mad catz or whoever for making 3rd party controllers
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- Grandfather Time, 22 Sep 2006 @ 1:27pm
  
  Re:
  Those games used what was called the GunCon (Gun Controller essentially). Which was packaged with a few of them, but sold nontheless as a lisenced third party peripheral, if I am correct. While other games, such as Lethal Enforcers, came prepackaged with clunky plastic guns........
  
  Anyone ever pointed an old NES zapper at a lamp that was turned on? =P
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2006 @ 1:58pm

GH w/o controller
"It seems unlikely that a court would ever rule that you can't sell a game like "Guitar Hero" without a controller"

Yeah. Like selling a modern OS without some form of media playback capability.
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MasterDuckHunter, 22 Sep 2006 @ 2:14pm

Re: Re:
Anyone ever pointed an old NES zapper at a lamp that was turned on? =P

...at a lamp? o.O had i not turned my nintendo into a bong a long time ago i might try this, however since it's in the current state that it is... what happens when you point the gun at a lamp?
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- Randy, 9 Nov 2006 @ 1:41pm
  
  Re: Re: Re:
  When the trigger was pulled, the game blanked out the screen with a black background for one frame, then, for one additional frame, drew a solid white rectangle around the sprite the user was supposed to be shooting at. The photodiode at the back of the Zapper would detect these changes in intensity and send a signal to the NES to indicate whether it was over a lit pixel or not. A drop followed by a spike in intensity signaled a hit. Multiple sprites were supported by flashing a solid white rectangle around each potential sprite, one per frame.
  
  It is possible to cheat in games by changing the brightness and contrast of the television, or pointing the gun at a bright light. The gun thinks it is pointing at a solid white target and will report a hit. If there are multiple targets, the "hit" target will be the first to be lit with the white square. This is not as consistent with a fluorescent lamp due to the possible differences in timing of the lamp's flicker verses the timing of the television's refresh rate.
  
  This cheat, especially when done by pointing at an incandescent light bulb, seems to go against the drop – spike requirement, but it works. Changing the brightness and contrast so this cheat works can greatly decrease the life of older model television sets and cause the picture to look bright and washed out, which is why pointing at a light bulb is recommended. Pointing at a bare bulb seems to work better than covered, and cheap incandescent bulbs seem to work better than higher quality bulbs.
  
  Additionally, by using a magnifying glass on the gun, it fools the receptor into thinking that the rectangle is much larger than it actually is, allowing for a shotgun-like effect that will cover the entire screen.
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- Randy, 9 Nov 2006 @ 1:42pm
  
  Re: Re: Re:
  When the trigger was pulled, the game blanked out the screen with a black background for one frame, then, for one additional frame, drew a solid white rectangle around the sprite the user was supposed to be shooting at. The photodiode at the back of the Zapper would detect these changes in intensity and send a signal to the NES to indicate whether it was over a lit pixel or not. A drop followed by a spike in intensity signaled a hit. Multiple sprites were supported by flashing a solid white rectangle around each potential sprite, one per frame.
  
  It is possible to cheat in games by changing the brightness and contrast of the television, or pointing the gun at a bright light. The gun thinks it is pointing at a solid white target and will report a hit. If there are multiple targets, the "hit" target will be the first to be lit with the white square. This is not as consistent with a fluorescent lamp due to the possible differences in timing of the lamp's flicker verses the timing of the television's refresh rate.
  
  This cheat, especially when done by pointing at an incandescent light bulb, seems to go against the drop – spike requirement, but it works. Changing the brightness and contrast so this cheat works can greatly decrease the life of older model television sets and cause the picture to look bright and washed out, which is why pointing at a light bulb is recommended. Pointing at a bare bulb seems to work better than covered, and cheap incandescent bulbs seem to work better than higher quality bulbs.
  
  Additionally, by using a magnifying glass on the gun, it fools the receptor into thinking that the rectangle is much larger than it actually is, allowing for a shotgun-like effect that will cover the entire screen.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Susheel Daswani, 24 Sep 2006 @ 3:58pm

Antitrust
I'm not sure what the exact allegations are, but asserting that a patent holder has broken antitrust laws is not uncommon at all. There is a well formed doctrine labeled patent misuse that covers such illegal activity. I'm not sure if that is being asserted, but it isn't that novel of a defense.
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Randy, 9 Nov 2006 @ 1:24pm

guitar hero 2
well they made is to where you cant use 3rd party controllers for gh2

i have a wired shredder and a wireless flying v and both dont work
the green fret when pressed during a song activates the blue fret and the blue fret activates orange
no other actions can be done the other frets do nothing and the striker does nothing
you can pause though ..

this is when you pay a song
also to advance and go back in screens the blue advances and yellow goes back..

pretty lame
i was really gonna say screw buying gh2 since i would be limited to their POS sg guitar..
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