Falsely Accusing Your Customers Of Software Piracy Is Not A Victimless Crime

from the is-it-worth-it? dept

Thu, Oct 5th 2006 10:25am — Mike Masnick

Earlier this year, Microsoft ran into all sorts of problems with its "Windows Genuine Advantage" (WGA) program that was supposed to check to make sure people were using legitimate versions of Microsoft Windows. If it found they were not, it would shut down the functionality of the operating system. That's one way to try to prevent counterfeit copies being used, but it also runs into a lot of problems when the software falsely accuses legitimate users of being crooks. And, in the case of Microsoft's WGA that seemed to happen quite a bit. Over the summer there were reports all over the place about being problems with WGA and how legitimate users were being told their installations were pirated, forcing Microsoft to back down. So, what are they doing with their next generation Vista operating system? Putting pretty much the same system into it, with a different name. This time it's the Software Protection Platform (SPP), and it has the added feature of being a platform so that other software providers can use it to accidentally lock legitimate buyers out of their software as well.

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has written up an opinion piece over at ZDnet, pointing out many of the problems with this approach. He points out that Microsoft defends the program by noting that "Software piracy is not a victimless crime." Adrian responds: "wrongly accusing someone of software piracy is also not victimless." This is similar to the movie industry, which still hasn't figured out that treating people like criminals is hardly a way to encourage loyalty. Obviously, software piracy is an issue for Microsoft, but there are other ways to deal with it than making life difficult for your legitimate users. For much of its lifetime, Microsoft has figured out that it can build an incredibly profitable business on software sales without being too stringent on copy protection techniques. In fact, it's lack of copy protection in many cases helped Microsoft become the de facto platform around the world. Even when people pirated, it helped build up Microsoft's network effects, and often resulted in many more purchases at a later date (which even Bill Gates has acknowledged in the past). Why the change of heart? It's nice to think that you can boost your bottom line by turning pirated copies into sales -- but if it also means making life difficult for many legitimate users and weakening your ability to be the defacto platform, it seems like there may be some additional costs that Microsoft hasn't yet factored in. Not only that, but the stingier Microsoft gets on things like this, the more it opens up possibilities for alternative open source or free providers to use Microsoft's own words against them.

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Shohat, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:14am

Ahem
But WGA made alot of sense , and drove many people with pirated copies to purchas licenses , and commercially was a smart move for microsoft . The paying customers did get some extras , and some of the non payers purchased licenses . The would have to be mighty retarded to not implement something similar (hopefully improved) in the next version .
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Dave, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:17am

Microsoft's goal
What I think a lot of people don't understand yet is that Microsoft doesn't want to SELL software... that want to lease it to you (so you don't own it)... by putting something like this in place, they are making it much easier for them to force this on the end user.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:20am

My windows is a corporate copy, full updated, and I've never had a problem with it. Makes me feel bad when honest people have to go through big business crap just because every body wants to get as rich as they can by taking as many other people's money as they can.
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Geoff, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:22am

Wow
You mean people actually use pirated software??? Wow, the inhumanity!
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:24am

Re: Ahem
What "advantages" did paying customers receive? Just curious.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:25am

However, all you have to do is search WGA hack on google, and you have at least 15 different ways to get around WGA 15 WAYS!!!! after that, you're home free.

with that being said:
WGA may have helped acquire more licenses, true. but those dedicated to piracy will work around it. see above. the problem may come when a user buys Windows multiple times. Happened to me. using a broad license for XP, company renewed license, got a new CDkey, and all "old" keys were then said to be bad. took a few weeks to get to all the computers. not fun. i can see a end user, seeing this, and like wtf? ok here's my credit card. others may lose their computer for a few days battling with m$ over the license. not good.

however, i do support the anti-piracy movement. it's just that i doubt it'll ever work. given enough time, the latest and gratest will be cracked. (hell a friend of mine had a cracked version of elder scrolls 4: oblivion BEFORE it was released in stores. how's that for anti piracy)
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Amos, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:33am

People whining about the development of copy protection technology is kinda like shoplifters complaining about the little tags in products that set off alarms in the front of stores.

Even if WGA isn't perfect, it's a step in the right direction. There SHOULD be a standard, reliable platform which helps enforce copy protection for all software that chooses to implement it. Most of us have taken advantage of the existing broken system which allows anyone to snag a copy of anything with a simple torrent client... but seriously, it's time for technology to grow up a little bit.

I administer or maintain several hundred computers running Windows XP. The only time I've seen WGA make a "false positive" is under extraordinary circumstances. For example, if someone sets the BIOS date to be 100 years in the future or installs XP with a "borrowed" product key. A better example is that it popped up when a malicious user tried to replace the XP GINA with a hacked version designed to steal passwords. Since the XP core installation was modified, WGA failed and I was alerted to the problem before anyone's account was compromised.
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Techie Chick, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:39am

What kills me is the fact that the mobo died on my desktop and when I drop the replacement in tonight I will spend HOURS on the phone reactivating my LEGAL, PURCHASED copy of XP.. I just LUV WGA in this instance.....
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Shohat, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:39am

Re: Re: Ahem
Software ... I think Windows Defender , OneNote , Photo Story . Some other stuff .
IE7 betas , which is much better than the FF this message is posted from .

Either way , They have to be stupid to give up WGA , it's been win-win for them all the way . With all due respect , the usability of even the best distros(*nix) is barely compareable to win95 , and MS knows it has the power to dominate the market without any real competition ...
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Supadupawindowsscooper, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:39am

WGA doesn't work.
WGA doesn't shut down your OS if it was cracked. I know two people with this issue and they haven't seemed to have any problem... MS wants you to submit the name of the company/person who sold you the pirated software. Turning you into a snitch and a pirate.

Personally, I thought that it was illegal for MS to validate--and I think it is--you do have to run the updates to have WGA, so if you know you have a pirated OS on your machine, don't run the updates.

Updates are notorious for taking down systems and breaking programs that ran before the update... remember when SP2 first came out?

Don't feel bad for MS... check the financial statements and you will see they clear nearly 20 billion per quarter.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:43am

Re:
People whining about the development of copy protection technology is kinda like shoplifters complaining about the little tags in products that set off alarms in the front of stores.

No it is more like people complaining that as they are leaving the store with their purchased merchandise in hand store security is frisking them to make sure nothing was taken. The real hackers and pirates have already figured out how to get around this minor inconvenience.
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reed, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:47am

WGA is a mistake
"Even if WGA isn't perfect, it's a step in the right direction. There SHOULD be a standard, reliable platform which helps enforce copy protection for all software that chooses to implement it."

At the cost of the end user? I don't think your being resonable.

" Most of us have taken advantage of the existing broken system which allows anyone to snag a copy of anything with a simple torrent client... but seriously, it's time for technology to grow up a little bit."

No it is time to stop the closed software model altogether! It does not increase innovation and turns the end user into nothing more than a number. We want software to empower us not control us.

With freedom being such a intergrated part of our soceity how can anyone think restricting software is a good thing?
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thinlizzy151, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:55am

M$ anti-piracy paranoia
When is M$ going to get real and quit trying to beat their customers into submission? I don't use bootleg software, and I don't want to. I have no problem with paying for a product, such as software. I also don't blame M$ for wanting to keep bootleg copies from being used. After all, this is what they do for a living. What I do object to is their ham-handed means of attempting to accomplish this. They might think that by so doing they are forcing people with bootleg copies to go legit. I rather think not. I do know this much, as soon as something better comes along(and Apple is NOT) those Redmond Retards have seen the last of me.
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Arif, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:56am

I' fed-up with Microsoft
I really cannot wait to have a comparable OS that will slowly take a chunk out of MS market share. I used to be a software publisher and sold our software on floppies (ok it was the 90s) with a protection mechanism. After removing the protection our sales doubled (to 20 copies – kidding). Moral of the story, you cannot police people and invade their computers and violate their privacy in any way or degree. Imagine buying a washer from Maytag only to be visited by their people to inspect proper use. OK bad example but just because the internet and software gives us access doesn’t give anyone the right to snoop around our “Personal” computers. And NO I don’t have pirated software on my computer (liar!!). I’m just fed-up with Microsoft and their attitude. Change is coming soon…. I hope. PS: don’t tell Bill I said that. I need my Windows, man. PS: don’t tell Bill I said that. I need my Windows, man.
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Shohat, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:58am

Re: WGA is a mistake
Closed code Stops innovation ? Have you ever touched Linux ? How bout the BSDs ? Or IRIX ? With all due respect , I will never install anything like that on my home computer .
While I can use it , normal person should not know what a process is , what a port is , what an address is , and sure as hell not know what driver is . I don't understand microwaves and I use them very well , computers should be no different .
The usability of everything non-MS on the market barely compares to mid-90s .
I don't plan on upgrading to Vista at home though . I am mighty happy with my XP , I don't need a new DRM ridden mem hog .
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 11:58am

I think virus writers should start exploiting this little scheme. Could you imagine how funny it would be to see hundreds of thousands of Windows machines permanently disabled because of a Microsoft glitch? Such a work could paralize the entire world..
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Mr Spanky (profile), 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:01pm

Re:
hours? I've reactivated dozens of computers (im a computer repair tech) with XP. Never once had it take more than about 15 minutes. Usualy takes less than 5...
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:08pm

Vista will be a bit more complicated.. especially considering corporate keys will no longer be permitted/available.

http://news.com.com/Microsoft+to+lock+pirates+out+of+Vista+PCs/2100-7355_3-6 122462.html?tag=nefd.pop
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:08pm

Vista will be a bit more complicated.. especially considering corporate keys will no longer be permitted/available.

http://news.com.com/Microsoft+to+lock+pirates+out+of+Vista+PCs/2100-7355_3-6 122462.html?tag=nefd.pop
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glitch, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:15pm

Piracy isnt the only answer..just easier
I have legit copies of XP Home and Pro, and am now playing with Vista 64 [legit, also]. But I am not staying here much longer.

My solution to piracy is open source software. Linux is not for everyone, truthfully, not as many as there could be. I have been using Open Office for 3+ years.

When I was in the business, I "partnered" with Microsoft. I got tired and quit. But I learned enough during my time to be capable of opening other options.

I sit here and chuckle over all the piracy stuff. BSA and MPAA have no concerns with me. If it wasn't for Windows and/or Microsoft, i wouldn't have any capability to even view movies, i own neither a DVD PLAYER or a VCR. I go with the lowest possible cable TV, basically local channels only.

I bought a DVD burner only because the new distros of Linux, like Vista, require dvd's now.

I guess my point is, people have to LEARN to control their computers or deal with BEING controlled.

I am lucky, I "grandfathered" myself in and have not become so dependant on technology.

Piracy is more a resullt of laziness of users and greed of providers.
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Shohat, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:20pm

Re: Piracy isnt the only answer..just easier
I know how to handle computers , my parents don't . I don't know how to handle microwaves beyond the basic usage , this is what a real PC should be . A user should know NOTHING about a computer to use it .
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glitch, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:32pm

This is not a microwave
It takes more to driving a car than sitting down and turning it on.

Compaq/HP, Dell, Gateway, eMachine..all are close to your microwave view. And there was also WebT [was it called that ?...I had a memory dump]
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:33pm

i pirate ALL software....always have..allways will....you cant stop me. EVER. The more you protect it (m$) the faster Linux takes over.
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thinlizzy151, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:41pm

Microwaves and Computers
"I don't know how to handle microwaves beyond the basic usage, this is what a real PC should be. A user should know nothing about a computer to use it. I disagree. Learn about the things you use, to whatever extent freasible. Bikes are low tech, What I don't know about them is not worth knowing. I only visit the bike shop for parts. When I got a computer, I learned what I needed to know. I'm no technician, but I'm not afraid to get inside the thing. Haven't messed up yet. Microwaves I leave alone so far as repairs go. What I'm getting at is people designed these things, therefore they are understandable. Learn about them, mess with them, know them. You'll be better off.
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I PIRATE STUFF, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:42pm

Re: Ahem
No...No... it just made me wait till some1 cracked it...which they did. So PWNED. I will never buy Microsoft Sofware Products. Ill just be a good lil pirate and dl it.
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ehrichweiss, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:44pm

Re:
"People whining about the development of copy protection technology is kinda like shoplifters complaining about the little tags in products that set off alarms in the front of stores."

No, people "whining" about the development of copy protection that acts the way WGA does is kinda like "whining" about being arrested for shoplifting something you actually paid for, or did you miss that aspect in this discussion?
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User96555, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:48pm

Re:
--> Vista will be a bit more complicated.. especially considering corporate keys will no longer be permitted/available.
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Glitch, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:50pm

a service called "Rebel"
OK, I'll show my age. That was a sevice from back in the Commodore 64 days. I paid a monthly fee, about $ 7.50 US a month, and recievd disks [5 1/4 inch SS/SD...lol] with kraks for software being released within the next 30 days. And i spent $20 US for a chip I soldered to my Atarl 800XL computer, that circumvented any and all protections. I guess I helped kill earlier computers.

And in the early PC days, I always bought the latest/greatest Central Point Software package, that broke most schemes. Back then, I also subscribed to newsgroups and newsletters that gave detailed instructions on what to modify to eliminate copy protections.

Back then, Microsoft had ambitions and goals, to be where they are. And they were one of the few that had NO copy protection, just like today.

Piracy is as old as computers. And like computers has gotten easier. Dummy-downed.
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ThatDude, 5 Oct 2006 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: WGA is a mistake
A few articles I have read recently have said that if you are a gamer, at some point you will have to upgrade to Vista as it will be the only M$ OS that supports DirectX 10. Im thinking that game houses will stay away from DX10 for a while because it would cost them customers. Eventually though Vista will be adopted by a greater percentage of the market and the game producers will switch to using DX10. And the evil cycle continues.
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Adrian Flanagan, 5 Oct 2006 @ 1:18pm

Linux has no copy protection at all.
Just had to mention that. If you don't like WGA (and I don't blame you a bit), don't complain, switch.
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claire rand, 5 Oct 2006 @ 1:35pm

apples, pears and bananas
wga isn't the problem, the problem is the attitude of the call centre when you get a false activation. if they could sort that out it would be less of a problem.

yes i have installed my copy of xp home a good many times (on the machine it was bought with), oh dear i now have to phone each time. as a result the online whatsit *never* works. they have refused to give me a new key. dispite me having the origional disc in my hand when speaking with them.

useless, the fact the idiot i spoke with had a weaker grasp of the english language than myself didn't help much either.

apparently i needed to phone an 0870 number during office hours *and* be sat at my pc at the same time to sort anything out... umm. yeah right, i can't phone premium rate lines from work, and funny.. I'm at work during office hours.

I did ask where i sent the bill for my time if i took a day off, i think that confused them.

so while i still have xp home, having removed wga the last time it did the rounds, and then disabled automatic updates.. its a temp measure.

i duel boot linux (well i have a second machine i can boot) its not ready to take over yet, not by a long shot, but its getting there. MS want softwere rental in place before its good enough to use as an alternative.

apple? can't comment, never used one. have one on order though (24" iMac) and i'm switching to that.. it may phone home, i don't know or care. as long as it doesn't accuse me of being a crook and pop a box up asking for my credit card details i'm happy.

(p.s. I'll prob have exactly the same problems, but a nicer machine to look at while moaning about them)

i *want* a bananananananana junior...
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xxl3w, 5 Oct 2006 @ 1:45pm

Linux has no copy protection
You're right, linux doesn't have copy protections. When i got into linux back in the day, i was really discouraged with it, (i know it's changed) but i installed it thinking i wouldn't have to pay for anything. don't you know as soon as i got it up and running i had to pay for my soundcard drivers? pay for my videocard drivers? this was really the early days of linux. needless to say, i didn't pay for anything and reinstalled, i think it was win95? might of been 98se, but i thought it was amazing how they can charge you for things like this. i think hardware companies embrace linux now and most of the drivers have been written by independent people. who knows? i stay away from linux now-a-days.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re: WGA is a mistake
Thanks for your candor, shohat. It takes balls for a novice to come right out and say what he knows in his gut is true when he's surrounded by elite bastard experts who will tear him apart.

I havent heard anyone ever agree with me before that non-windows OSes are essentially stuck in the mid-90s in terms of usability. But I firmly believe it is true.
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David, 5 Oct 2006 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: Re: WGA is a mistake
Yeah. It's amazing... you know, I like, put in this Ubuntu LiveCD into my laptop, started it up, and like, 3 minutes later it was booted up, able to surf the web because it automatically connected to a nearby unprotected access point, and I never had to type a thing. It took too much thinking!

Maybe it's just that you don't actually use or understand both, that you're still scared of Linux? Yes, it's a different way of thinking about your computer and operating system. No, there is no "My Computer", "Network Places", or any of that crap. But you "learned" (read: were indoctrinated with) Windows early, and you're used to it. You know how to do things in Windows. You probably think nothing of telling someone to run a scandisk and defrag when their machine is running slow. You had to learn that somewhere, though, and it's the same thing with ANY system you'll come into contact with that's not the exact same as you had before. I know change can be scary, but sometimes, it's for the best.
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David, 5 Oct 2006 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re: Piracy isnt the only answer..just easier
A microwave cooks food. And that's about it. And people STILL manage to get it wrong, defrost things by partially cooking them, etc.

And a computer is MANY orders of magnitude more complex than a microwave. With complexity comes... well, complexity.

In short, you're a moron. Any idiot can click on a browser and then click on hyperlinks. Thats "microwave"-style use of a computer. You want to do something more on a computer, you need to put some work into understanding slightly more complex systems.
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Solo, 5 Oct 2006 @ 3:03pm

"It's nice to think that you can boost your bottom line by turning pirated copies into sales"

That's a good one. This flawed reasoning has seeped into the industry so deeply for so long that now they belive it.

You can't turn pirated copy into sales. At all. It's called path of least resistance. If suddenly Microsoft (or any vendor/DRM scheme) comes up with the-perfect-solution that will enfore only-legitimate-copy scheme for the whole world forever, then the 'pirated' use will shift to something else. Linux. MacOS. Previous version of Windows itself.

The best OS Microsoft has spit out was Windows 2000. What did XP bring? Clearfont and a cartoonish olive green start button.

A lot of people are not realizing that MS can't bring anything new or better. Transparent window scheme? A sidebar with widgets? Does anyone think Vista is bringing anything revolutionnary?

Same thing with Office. Office 2000 was too much for too many already.
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Shohat, 5 Oct 2006 @ 3:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Piracy isnt the only answer..just easi
I engineer thermal and chemical control systems and have written apps from REXX for MVS and Assembly code for NEC microcontrollers to retarded VB6 windowing , so I am not using myself as an example of a microwave user .
BUT , many users should be just that . Browse around the internet , play some games , watch movies and chat online .
Person should not know what processor type he has , or what is the frequency of the his BUS is , and why his L1 cache is shared among multiple cores , or why he needs a driver for his sound card .
This is what the future should be about . Professionals will know , users will not . Just like any other technology .
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eze, 5 Oct 2006 @ 3:38pm

No More Mico$oft go Linux UBUNTU rules
No More Mico$oft go Linux UBUNTU rules
this is the real solution
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zarquon, 5 Oct 2006 @ 4:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Ahem
ever used ubuntu? 6.10 (edgy eft) is set to release this month. at least try a live cd. www.ubuntulinux.org
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Riggs-, 5 Oct 2006 @ 4:20pm

I look at sofware piracy this way just like the music industry... Look how much a single artist makes on one album(if its any good) and then look at how many people download the music... and they still make money.

In my opinion they make alota money the way it is why do they need to attack the few people that use the sofware but dont pay for it. This is my view as a consumer...

On the other hand im taking a C++ class in my highschool and i dont really like it when people want to copy my source code...thats my view as a writer....
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zarquon, 5 Oct 2006 @ 4:31pm

Re: Re: WGA is a mistake
ignorance is bliss, huh? have you ever touched linux or do you think it's still a CLI?

posted from firefox 1.5.0.7 on ubuntu 6.06.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 4:52pm

Riggs - software (and arguably other things) is give and take. Once you get out of high school, graduate college, you might find yourself as a software engineer. I guarantee you will use libraries and source code that other people wrote and you get to use for free. Their generous efforts have made your job easier.

One day, perhaps you will do the same, and contribute free software as payment for when you benefitted from someone else's work.
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Mike (profile), 5 Oct 2006 @ 5:43pm

Re:
People whining about the development of copy protection technology is kinda like shoplifters complaining about the little tags in products that set off alarms in the front of stores.

Not quite. Actually, not at all. It's more like people who legitimately bought a product, bringing it home, and some time later being told the product no longer works because that tag now believes it was stolen. There's quite a difference, don't you think?
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Stu, 5 Oct 2006 @ 5:49pm

copy protection
The early versions of Lotus 123 had a nasty copy protection scheme. This was in the days when they owned the spreadsheet market. It was so unpopular that it opened the door to competition - Quattro, Excel.
Eventually they stopped using it, and sales went up again; but it was too late. They never recovered their position.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Oct 2006 @ 10:31pm

Re: copy protection
Software companies are either profoundly stupid or have the worst short term memory ever. Every few years, they attempt a draconian copy protection scheme that ALWAYS backfires.

A few years ago, Inuit (makers of Quiken, TurboTax) wrote to the boot sectors of the hard drive in an attempt to combat piracy...worst mistake they ever made and they ended up quickly backtracking.

More recently Sony had their little rootkit fiasco.

Yet they never learn. In a few years, another dumbass software company will try again and kick their asses kicked.
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Reed, 6 Oct 2006 @ 12:50am

Linux has come a long way
"might of been 98se, but i thought it was amazing how they can charge you for things like this. i think hardware companies embrace linux now and most of the drivers have been written by independent people. who knows? i stay away from linux now-a-days."

Thats too bad because I think it is already more stable and usable than Windows Vista. Granted you have to drop to command line occasionally if you are a power user. It isn't that bad, just different. For the typical user with generic hardware Linux (flavours like Ubuntu and Mandriva) are easier to install and use than Windows XP.

Pick up a copy of Ubuntu and give it a try. If your into 64 bit try the new version of Edgy Eft that has built in 64 and 32 bit compatiblity and an enormous selection of 64 bit applications.

With a complete selection of 64 bit packages, hardware acceleration for the desktop, and the ultimate ability to fully configure and trick out your system it leaves you wondering... why use Windows again?
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eze, 6 Oct 2006 @ 5:26am

3th worold countries can not pay $USD for OS
im from argentina, and NOT one has a licensed Windose copy, is to to expensive for everyone, $100USD is a 2 weeks salary for some people .
I thinks thanks to wga, and more restricted piracy policies, will push more and more to LINUX/Ubuntu installations. thank Bill!! :)
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2006 @ 5:56am

I'm starting to get sick of people always going on about Linux's stability. Yes, Linux _servers_ are stable, but the gui world of Linux is much different. I run Fedora and if I leave my box on for over a week it starts to run like shit, programs crash, nautilus freezes up (and don't try to tell me it is my installation, I've had the same trouble with Slackware, and Debian). I won't try to claim Windows is any better but get off your damn high horse and realize your OS sucks just as much as the ones you love to insult so much.

And if you think Linux is ready for prime time you're way off. I've managed to get 6 people to install Linux and every one of them switched back to Windows within a month.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2006 @ 5:58am

> im from argentina, and NOT one has a licensed Windose copy, is to to
> expensive for everyone, $100USD is a 2 weeks salary for some people .
> I thinks thanks to wga, and more restricted piracy policies, will push
> more and more to LINUX/Ubuntu installations. thank Bill!! :)

If you only pirated their OS I'm sure they'll be glad when you switch to Linux...
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Wizard Prang, 6 Oct 2006 @ 7:20am

IE7 vs FF
"IE7 betas , which is much better than the FF this message is posted from"

I should ruddy well hope so... how many years have MS had to come up with something better than IE6?

Of course, by the time IE7 goes mainstream, FF2 will most likely be be out...
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2006 @ 7:23am

Re:
And you sir are an Anonymous Coward
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Wizard Prang, 6 Oct 2006 @ 7:58am

The voice of inexperience?
"Closed code Stops innovation?

One Word. Firefox.

Have you ever touched Linux ? How bout the BSDs ? Or IRIX ? With all due respect, I will never install anything like that on my home computer."

Have you any experience of non-windows OSs? I have installed and used various flavors of Windows, including the Vista Release Candidate and several flavors of Linux. Only Linux - Mandrake and Ubuntu - had network, sound and printer working out the box without having to find and load drivers, reboot etc. Ironically, the GUI of Vista reminds me more of Linux than windows :)

While I can use it , normal person should not know what a process is , what a port is , what an address is , and sure as hell not know what driver is .

Congratulations - you just described most Windows users. Sorry, what was your point again?

The usability of everything non-MS on the market barely compares to mid-90s .

A few years ago I would have agreed with you. Now I'm not so sure. I am not a Linux guru or an evangelist, but I have found Ubuntu's installation and update mechanisms very intuitive. It's difficult to make a fair comparison if you have years of comfortable familiarity...

I don't plan on upgrading to Vista at home though . I am mighty happy with my XP , I don't need a new DRM ridden mem hog .

I don't plan on upgrading to XP at home though. I am mighty happy with my Windows 2000, I don't need WPA, DRM, WGA, and other TLAs. I use Windows XP at work (because I have to), but as for me and my house, the future is looking a lot like Linux.
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Wizard Prang, 6 Oct 2006 @ 8:07am

DRM does not work
Even if WGA isn't perfect, it's a step in the right direction.

Agreed... but it is not ready for prime-time. If Ford released a vehicle that even 1% of the time broke down after five blocks there would be a recall or litigation. I have first-hand experience of brand new machines failing WGA. Calling someone a thief without proof is called slander. WGA does it every day. Not often, but once is once too many.

There SHOULD be a standard, reliable platform which helps enforce copy protection for all software that chooses to implement it.

I agree... but there isn't. The only truly effective DRM is one that you don't have to wrestle with. What is more disturbing is how Microsoft have rammed this non-critical non-update down the throats of users as a "critical update".
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Wizard Prang, 6 Oct 2006 @ 8:24am

Another perspective
Installed Ubuntu and ran it for four months. Lots of package installations and upgrades, used heavily, particularly Office Apps, web surfing (safer than Windows).

Only one reboot - for a kernel upgrade, which was optional.

Verdict: Impressed. It ran as quickly on the last day as on the first - sadly, I needed the Hard Drive to help recover a crashed Windows installation (heh).

I will be reinstalling Ubuntu very soon.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2006 @ 8:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: WGA is a mistake
I'm not talking about the usability of the OS at that level. I can't even do thought experiments involving being that new to computers.

The windows ui has evolved far longer, with a far larger population, than anyone else's gui and the result is more refined.

The unix cli has evolved even longer, with a similar population, and is far more refined than anyone else's cli.

But don't you dare try and tell me that linux desktops have had as long to refine themselves, and I will refuse to accept anyones claim that a revolutionary bunch of gui designers (ala macos) can turn the world upside down overnight with a brand new superior gui design. Hogwash.
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ebrke, 6 Oct 2006 @ 9:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Piracy isnt the only answer..just
Hmm--I guess if the user wants to be brainless, that's their choice. I've never felt like that, and linux has been a good solution for me. I'm no zealot, maybe it's not for everyone, although once a mainstream distro is installed and configured, a brainless user can make out just fine these days.
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Reed, 6 Oct 2006 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WGA is a mistake
"But don't you dare try and tell me that linux desktops have had as long to refine themselves"

Open source is many times faster than closed source development so it doesn't take as long.

"and I will refuse to accept anyones claim that a revolutionary bunch of gui "

Refuse to accept evidence? Are you some kind of religious Windows user who won't accept any ideas contrary to the official line of MS?

designers (ala macos) can turn the world upside down overnight with a brand new superior gui design. Hogwash."

I dare you to try a live-cd of Ubuntu 6.10 and tell me how Windows GUI is superior to Gnome.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Dec 2007 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Ahem
But WGA made alot of sense , and drove many people with pirated copies to purchas licenses , and commercially was a smart move for microsoft . Never proven. With all due respect , the usability of even the best distros(*nix) is barely compareable to win95 , Where have you been in the last 5 years? Mandriva has better functionality and "Yes, you can actually do MORE with it on the web" than any Win9x versions. What's even better, is my "not PC literate" family members who I have switched to using it, all agree that it's easier, and because they don't have to worry about malware, has actually brought some of the joy back to web-surfing. And as M$ drops support for important things like updated versions of mediaplayer and whatnot, people using these systems are being left behind. WGA=Window's Greedy A*$holes
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Sam, 11 Oct 2015 @ 8:06am

piracy
The admin is falsely accusing me of piracy and I tell him I didn't, I try to prove him the best I can but he will never believe me.
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