Thomas Jefferson's Estate Curators A Bit Behind On Thomas Jefferson's Views On Intellectual Property
from the whoops dept
We've seen all sorts of ridiculous claims about copyrights lately, with various people claiming that copyrights give them a lot more control than they really do. Over Thanksgiving weekend, I got to visit Chicago's Millennium Park for the first time and see the infamous "bean" sculpture. Last year there was a big discussion over the sculpture, after security guards told photographers (mistakenly) that they could not photograph the statue, because it was covered by copyright. I also recently attended a play where all attendees were told not to photograph the set, because of copyright issues. It seems like something similar (but even more ridiculous) may be happening down at Monticello, the historic home of Thomas Jefferson. David Pescovitz, at Boing Boing, posts about the experience of a friend who visited Monticello, only to be told that no photographs could be taken, because the estate does not own the copyrights for some of the artwork in the house. This leads to a variety of responses. First off, assuming the artwork in the house is from the time when Jefferson lived there, the copyright is long gone. Second, even if the works were covered by copyright, that does not prohibit taking photographs of them. Third, the individual tried to take a photograph of Jefferson's copy of the Declaration of Independence, over which there clearly is no copyright. It may be that photography is banned to avoid having a camera's flash hit the artwork, but to blame copyrights is wrong and misleading. It's made even worse because of Thomas Jefferson's well known views on intellectual property (which we never get tired of posting):If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.Apparently, the folks working at Monticello never bothered to learn much about Jefferson's own view on copyrights and patents -- and it's a shame that they would stomp on his words by misusing the concepts even further.
That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property.
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nice
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Thomas Jefferson's Estate Curators A Bit Behind On
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I may disagree on this one...
Unless I see some link to a stated position of the Monticello estate that (1) they disallow photography, (2) the reason is due to copyrights, and (3) we enforce this stupid rule, then all I see is somebody (the tour guide, the tourist, whoever) taking something way out of context.
Then again, I'm never surprised at the number of unreasonable policies that are insisted on by lawyers, especially in today's litigious world where it isn't really inconceivable that the Jefferson Foundation could be suied for contributory infringement if somebody were to take a picture of artwork owned by somebody else.
With regard to the statement that the Foundation doesn't own the copyright to some of the artwork, then perhaps the US Treasury should be sued for contributory infringement due to the engraving of Monticello on the reverse side of the Jefferson nickel... [smile]
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Re: I may disagree on this one...
"... suied for contributory infringement if somebody were to take a picture of artwork owned by somebody else ..."
As mentioned in the article, taking a picture of art is not copyright infringement. That doesn't mean that someone wouldn't sue for it though.
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"Photography. Still photography, filming, and video recording for personal use are permitted on the grounds of Monticello. No photography of any kind is allowed inside the house."
No reason given for why.
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Soon will be impossible to enforce.
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The rise of corporatocracy...
We are slowly beginning to think that the rights of corporations are much greater than they are thanks to the tireless efforts (extortion, lies, etc) of organizations like the RIAA, MPAA, and it's getting to the point where no one has even a common sense understanding of the law.
Combine that with a totally corrupt USPTO and we are handing our national government and power to the megacorps.
Congratulations, America.
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Re: The rise of corporatocracy...
I think Jefferson would be appalled by today's monopolies. But it's actually opposite of his orginal fear that patents created monoplies. these days multinationals infringe patents and don't worry too much - they'll just pay off Pelosi and company and change the patent system to fit thier business model. All the top Silicon Valley companies forget where they came from.
Now they just pull the ladder up from undeneath them. And say "screw you to the little guy. In the process, they stifle innovation and kill the golden goose of America: our gold standard patent system.
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Re: The rise of corporatocracy...
I think Jefferson would be appalled by today's monopolies. But it's actually opposite of his orginal fear that patents created monoplies. these days multinationals infringe patents and don't worry too much - they'll just pay off Pelosi and company and change the patent system to fit thier business model. All the top Silicon Valley companies forget where they came from.
Now they just pull the ladder up from undeneath them. And say "screw you to the little guy. In the process, they stifle innovation and kill the golden goose of America: our gold standard patent system.
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Min
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Out of context
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Re: Out of context
meaning: Just because we restrict the free use of ideas, doesn't mean that other societies which do not restrict ideas won't be as sucessful.
So, if Jefferson was right, then why restrict ideas at all? It would not benefit society to do so, only the individual entity. Furthermore, why should the government reward innovation by granting monopolies? Doesn't our free-market economy already reward innovation?
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Re: Out of context
I don't think so. Even your quote ends with:
"and it may be observed that the nations which refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new and useful devices."
That still supports the point that creating intellectual monopolies does not necessarily lead to benefit. And, as the Constitution makes clear, you should only be able to create such monopolies if it does lead to the promotion of useful science and arts. If that's not what's happening, then it is forbidden.
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Re: Out of context
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Not unusual in houses for "tours"
I really don't have a problem with the policy. I am happy the art owners lent their property to enhance the experience.
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Unacceptable!!! You know what this calls for??? Another Techdirt rant against the patent system, that's what! And since there's a natural Jefferson tie-in here, Mike gets to simply imply the absurd notions stated elsewhere on his site that Jefferson was anti-Patent. Although I must admit enjoying myself while arguing this one: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060831/144251.shtml
Really want a headache? Try deciding if Jefferson would approve of Monticello's no-photo policy...
Irony? http://www.inventors-world.com/pc-172-3-eastman-and-the-box-film-camera-patent.aspx
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Re:
Which, in fact, I say in the post. However, the point of the post is to note the growing trend of these types of "misunderstandings" and how it shows that people don't understand how copyright works -- and the potential problems that leads to.
Mike gets to simply imply the absurd notions stated elsewhere on his site that Jefferson was anti-Patent.
Absurd notion? I like how you completely ignore what he said, which makes it very clear that he's uncomfortable with intellectual monopolies.
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Umm wait a moment
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Re: Umm wait a moment
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The nickel and Monticello
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or something like that.
anyway, i've seen many places that don't allow flash photography, due to historical preservation. i've also seen no photograph due to copyrights (live shows, art galleries and the like)
now, as for others lending artwork for histric displays, do they collect royalties from said opperation? i mean, their work is used to generate revenue.
what about owners of orginal artwork that gets reproduced. say i "buy" the mona lisa. does every company that makes posters, post cards, shirts etc. owe me now now? do i own the rights to the painting? or do i just own the pysical copy? (maybe the mona lisa is a bad example coz it's quite old and in the public domain? how about something more recend, say andy whorhal stuff, or works of i dunno who is "popular" these days)
but do you catch my drift?
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Visiting Monticello
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That issue aside, I would hope that donors in the future will recognize that a non-flash photo assuredly does not decrease the interest in the place where the art is displayed or the worth of those pieces of art.
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Idiots with cameras
As a photographer, I have been denied access to many legitimate photographic opportunities simply due to the idiocy of the masses weighed against the preservation of articles of historical significance.
It's much easier to ban photography outright than ban flash photography only and have to contend with people that won't RTFM for their camera.
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More contextual evidence
In addition to what others have said supporting that the quote was taken in context, we can take a little bit more:
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Clarification from Monticello
In response to a couple of e-mails we received from people who've read this post, I've got some clarification about Monticello's policy on photography inside the house. From our Curator:
As you can see this is quite a mouthful to add to the beginning of each tour (along with warnings about chewing gum and leaning on the walls and all the required historical context). But the general point about the use of the word copyright is correct; most of the collection on display is not protected by copyright (though a few recently crafted reproductions are). So, as a result of the e-mails and the blogs, we did send out a clarification to our staff to state our policy without elaboration (at least initially), to explain it more fully if asked, and to not use the word copyright when doing so.
Last, I thought some of you might be interested in an upcoming podcast of a cool talk given at our Robert H. Smith International Center for Jefferson Studies on Jefferson and Intellectual Property. As some you may know, Jefferson was on the first patent board under Constitution and had a lot to say on the subject. Having just received permission from the speaker, I hope to have the talk posted by mid-December and will send an alert and more details to this blog (if I'm still welcome :-) when it's available. If you have any more questions, you can e-mail me at cwollerton@monticello.org.
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Podcast on Jefferson and Intellectual Property
http://www.monticello.org/podcasts/icjs_podcast.html
Plus, on 12/1/2006 Science Friday did one on how the current patent-granting process is affecting scientific discovery.
http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/2006/Dec/hour2_120106.html
(Link to audio is in the box on upper right).
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– Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson would be csidered a flip flopper today in regards to patents. The qoute you gleefully post was from Jefferson's earlier views. he chnged his mind to find the value of patents. Basically, you are wrong in claiming TJ's earlier views as de facto.
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