YouTube's Solution To Unauthorized Japanese Videos: A Warning Written In Japanese

Are Sites Like Digg, YouTube And MySpace Still Exploitation If People Get What They Want?

from the non-monetary-payments dept

Wed, Dec 20th 2006 3:36am — Mike Masnick

There's a fascinating discussion going on among some bloggers today, concerning some research about how the top 10 domains online get a larger percentage of traffic today than they did five years ago -- supposedly countering Fred Wilson's claim that "the long tail" of web pages was increasingly important. However, as you dig into the numbers, it becomes clear that Wilson's point still does stand. Most of that increase in traffic is actually due to MySpace and YouTube, which aren't "properties" by themselves so much as they are a playground sandbox for millions of others to set up their own individual sites -- representing an even longer tail of content that just happens to be place within the walls of specific sites.

Nick Carr, as per usual, cuts through the clutter in pointing this out -- but then goes on to make some questionable assertions about how this is a modern form of sharecropping -- whereby the "land owner" aggregator sites like MySpace and YouTube are somehow exploiting the "sharecropper" users, who are willing to create content for those sites for nothing. Carr attributes this to the difference between the "attention economy" and the "cash economy" and seems surprised that the two overlap -- suggesting that Carr actually hasn't been paying much attention. There aren't separate economies at all. They've always overlapped and always will. What's really going on is a recognition that not everything needs to be paid for in monetary terms (which isn't a new concept). It's not that the users are somehow being "exploited" by being tricked into giving up value in exchange for attention. They are making the choice and recognizing the benefit. The attention is a benefit to them. It is payment -- not exploitation. This is the same mistake that others have made in claiming that Google is somehow exploiting sites by organizing and pointing people to those sites -- while making money in the process. Once again, that's a case where Google is providing some benefit (traffic, or if you must, attention) to those sites. Those who complain about the lack of monetary payment are under the same delusion as Carr, that benefits like attention are somehow separate from the cash-based economy. Just because some of the direct benefits are not in cash, doesn't mean that one side is any more exploited than the other.

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32 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2006 @ 4:47am

Exploited???
You can exploit a migrant worker who has little choice but to work for lower wages. You can exploit a manopoly by lowering prices to crush competitors and then raising them boyond the reasonable once the competition is gone. You can exploit a disaster by price gouging... I just don't understand how bored bloggers could possibly be "exploited".
*shrug* Ooookkkkkkaaaaayyyy.... Exploit away.

First Post! (I have been exploited by my desire to have first post and added content freely to this site. Woe is me.)
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Richard Ahlquist, 20 Dec 2006 @ 5:09am

You cant the willing
Bottom line;
If youre willing to work for low wages and take a job at generi burger joint youre not exploited.

If youre willing to sign contract that give away the money you make company X youre not exploited.

If youre willing to strip for money youre not exploited.

If you create content in the public eye, and a aggregation or search or social networking site links to you youre not being exploited.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2006 @ 5:14am

Re: You cant the willing
while i see your point, you're analogies aren't all that great. sometimes its not so much that you're willing to work under those conditions, but that you have no other choice.
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Pappu, 20 Dec 2006 @ 5:32am

Choices
ACoward - no other choice than to work at burger joint, strip etc. shows that you know your potential and you are willingly making a choice to work under those conditions.
You cant call it exploitation because you dont have a choice but to work under those conditions. Its because you are lazy to look for better opportunities and work towards achieving them.

Back to the article; creative bloggers who want to get paid for their creativity would actually use platforms such as YouTube to 'advertize' their creativity.

I hate people who want free money.
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EdB, 20 Dec 2006 @ 7:00am

Re: Choices
I hate you too, stranger.
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Balla, 20 Dec 2006 @ 7:16am

yea boiiii
damn man myspace iz the reall shit .... i git all my bitches nd hoes from that site how do yall think i be all up in all these chicks pants alll the time cuz i look at they pics on myspace nd have a raffle on which hoe is ready to go yea boiii yhall dont even no i be on that kryptonite and i be likin
all yhall are just tech nerds nd i be smackin all yo wives asses fo real
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painted zebra, 20 Dec 2006 @ 7:32am

Re: Choices
Pappu- you're assuming that everyone has equal opportunity. If a person's position represents their willingness to work, then why aren't more people making millions? Before you condemn somebody for accepting the status quo, consider what it takes to break from their situation.

Those who have read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" will understand my point.
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intelligence, 20 Dec 2006 @ 8:29am

ONCE ADVERTISERS REALIZE THAT THESE STUPID SITES ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF THEIR PRODUCT SALES THEY WILL PULL OUT --- EITHER THAT OR THEY WILL FIND A NEW VENUE TO ADVERT ON/IN --- MAYBE CELL PHONES FOR CHEAPER SERVICE

WHO KNOWS -- THE FACT IS -- SYNERGY OF THE INTERNET AND ADVERT --- WILL DIE -- AND WITH THAT --- THE PRICE OF YOUTUBE AND MYSPACE BECAUSE THEY WONT BE MAKING ANY MONEYYYYYYYYYYYY

WHERE ELSE DOES THEIR MONEY COME FROM --- NOWHEREE!!!!!!!!
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Fmonkey, 20 Dec 2006 @ 8:38am

Re:
stop shouting
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Rational Beaver, 20 Dec 2006 @ 8:41am

Re: Re: Choices
The Jungle was propaganda (good story though).

It is clear, however, that inefficiencies in the job market along with people's varied life experiences, educational acheivements, connections, and mental capacity all combine to allow for the existance of economic exploitation.

But that doesn't matter when we're talking about YouTube. Video sharing is completely voluntary and even if it wasn't somehow, YouTube is not the only game in town. Unlike the job market, the video sharing website market is extremely transparent and open. You can get a "job" with YouTube, Revver, MetaCafe, etc. etc. etc. None of those sites hold you to any sort of exclusivity agreement. Also unlike the (standard) job market, it is often beneficial to your online video career to act like a complete idiot.
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Low man, 20 Dec 2006 @ 8:43am

Re: Re: Choices
I grow up in the middle of no where washington state. I mean we had no electricity or running water. We even had an "outhouse". My stationin life was at the bottom. I worked my way into college and a good career. The only thing it takes to break from a situation in America is the will to do so.
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Lucas McDonnell, 20 Dec 2006 @ 8:56am

Collaboration/idea sharing and traffic.
I talked about idea sharing as a way to increase traffic to your web site a little while ago on my site, which relates to this point.

I don't really see how anyone is being exploited through the creation of a dialogue -- it often creates a situation where there is mutual benefit.

Also, I always get a little worried when people start talking about geographic metaphors and the web. With real land, it's a zero sum game: if you don't own the land, someone else (whether that's government or a private party) will. The web is simply not the same. It's not a zero sum game: we can all create as many sites as we want, without driving up the cost for others to create more properties.
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Mafarsa, 20 Dec 2006 @ 9:03am

Re: Re: Choices
Opportunity and education run hand in hand. Without an education, there will be no opportunity. That is where the breakdown is. If more people continued their education, then the likeliness of their being successful increases dramatically. And let's face it, if you have ever been in a strip club, all of the girls will tell you that they're only doing it to get money for college. But as Chris rock says "What college do you know that takes tuition in $1.00 bills?"
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PhysicsGuy, 20 Dec 2006 @ 9:07am

They are making the choice and recognizing the benefit. The attention is a benefit to them. It is payment

and what type of personal benefits from a web site whose sole purpose is attention towards that person?
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rax262, 20 Dec 2006 @ 9:33am

Who's exploiting who?
I believe the standard agreement is that I create content and you host it for me. In exchange for the ad revenue YouTube receives, I avoid the enormous cost of distributing my own video, or hosting my own blog etc. If you don't believe that then talk to anyone who's been Slashdotted or more recently Dugg completely offline.
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JS Beckerist, 20 Dec 2006 @ 10:11am

@ painted zebra
I've read the Jungle. I've also read numerous other novels about the tribulations of "less fortunate" people. With that said, I myself came from a huge catholic family. (My grandmother has more than 100 direct descendants between children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren...etc...) The opportunities afforded to me in life have not been numerous, but I know I've made an awesome life for myself because I took advantage of the few opportunities I could. I do not consider myself lazy, nor necessarily ambitious, but I do keep my eyes open.
With all this said, I have to disagree with you 100%. I hear my relatives and friends bitch and whine about the shitty life they have, then roll over with their bag of Doritos and Mountain Dew for breakfast and flip through the channels until they find Jerry Springer INSTEAD of maybe working on their resume, or looking for a new job, or taking a 3 credit class at the local community college (which can be FREE if, again, you keep your eyes open).

I can't say for certain whether or not this applies to anywhere outside my own little world, though common sense seems to indicate that it SHOULD. Anyone who has to leech off the government (ie: welfare), and more importantly those who don't even care to do that, but have a terrible quality of life ARE NOT given "no opportunities," in fact, by simply LIVING you are given an unlimited source of possibilities. Dismissing it as "difficult to break from" or "status quo" is simply an excuse, and I'm sick of hearing people bitch. Do something about it!
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Gustavo, 20 Dec 2006 @ 10:19am

Re: yea boiiii
we could all be nerds, but at least we can write in a way everybody understand.
why don't you try to learn english before start posting whatever cross your mind, if you have one...
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sceptic, 20 Dec 2006 @ 10:40am

Re:
and what type of personal benefits from a web site whose sole purpose is attention towards that person?

Ummm... didn't you just answer your own question?

The person that has the website gets the attention they crave, the person that looks at the website satisfies their voyeuristic tendencies. Pretty simple.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2006 @ 10:43am

Re: Re: yea boiiii
Sarcasm. Look it up.
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Jimbo, 20 Dec 2006 @ 11:03am

Re: Re: You cant the willing
One always has another choice... don't do it. The lack of action is in itself a choice. Exploitation is self imposed in all circumstances.

A slave may revolt against his master.

A citizen may rise up against his government.

A laborer may seek employment elsewhere.

Maybe we feel like we should never have been put in said situation but it is always within our power to change our station.

I think the term 'exploitation' in the article above was certainly quite malapropos.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2006 @ 12:53pm

Re: Re: Re: You cant the willing
I think the term 'exploitation' in the article above was certainly quite malapropos.
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David Binkowski, 20 Dec 2006 @ 1:57pm

Ah, so this is where the Yahoo Trolls have come to
Come on, folks -- if you voluntarily post on a site and the creator makes money as a byproduct of the content then you are willingly contributing to the success of the site. Right, Mike? :P lol
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Balla's Boiiii, 21 Dec 2006 @ 6:18am

yeah boiiiiiii
Yhall bitchzz dun even kno we be talkin ever we want if ya git a problem then cum to da hood and shitzzz boii we kick yo ass! dont eva talk to mi boiii tj like dat he kno da pope and da pope is my gangsta and he be doin it real big yo! So Fuck off bisshshshs
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PhysicsGuy, 21 Dec 2006 @ 8:55am

Re: Re:
that's what i get for commenting on here first thing in the morning. it should read "what type of PERSON benefits from a web site whose sole purpose is attention towards that person?"
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Da Pope, 22 Dec 2006 @ 6:45am

yeahhh boiiiii
Yo Bitchs i am Da Pope! myspace is sweeeeeeeeeeeet!!! ur all just jealous cuz u send friend requests to everyone adn they shut u down quit crying like a baby and get a life. U DAM SEXUAL PREDITORSSS... how old are like 50?? lol get a life plzzzzz! yhall dun even knooo my boiii arin adn tj be balla's da are Balllllinnnnn!!

ps: Yhall betta watch out Da Pope be usin his Rope on yo bitch!
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Mark, 27 Dec 2006 @ 11:51pm

"Da Pope" your school may not teach you this but I feel it's quite important to share:

1. 'I', referring to yourself, is spelt with a capital letter. 'I' and not 'i'. If there was a problem with your Caps Lock or Shift keys I could excuse you but your use of capitals in the rest of your message indicates mere laziness. Laziness is a blight on society, It's your responsibility to stamp out laziness now.

2. `cuz' `adn' `yhall' `boiii' and `ballllinnnn' have no meaning and a word with no meaning is called a 'not a word'. When using English one should refrain from using 'not a word's as it is often difficult to explain what they are owing to their inexplicability.

3. 'Da' is the Russian word for 'yes' and, in English, it is also a 'not a word'. The correct form for what I believe you were trying to say is 'the'

4. Punctuation is what separates us from guinea pigs. Commas, full stops, and all the other grammatical inventions are why we humans rule the planet. When you fail to use correct punctuation you advance the onset of the destruction of Earth. Your teachers may hide this fact from you but it's true. If you want to live in a future world with flying houses and teleportation bread then please give a thought to the humble semi-colon every now and then.
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myspacetools, 15 Jan 2007 @ 1:04am

There's no such thing as exploitation because it seems like it's a win-win situation. both sides benefit from each other.
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myspacetools, 15 Jan 2007 @ 1:05am

There's no such thing as exploitation because it seems like it's a win-win situation. both sides benefit from each other.
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JESSICA, 15 May 2007 @ 6:24am

hey......
not to sound boguz but chu have to make more anonymous websites or somethinhg cause i cant even logg in in school no more.....so please do me dat favor
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Rachel Green, 26 Mar 2008 @ 2:15am

They are not exploiting. sites like digg, youtube and myspace are providing free service. But they also have expences, so they give ads on their sites, thats it. I think the future of digg like sites is good, as they are playing important role in SEO. I recently strated a digg like site http://www.v0v.com which is doing pretty much fine
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