Nothing Fair About Bringing The Fairness Doctrine Back

Phishing Scammer May Be Facing A Century In Prison

from the gone-phishin' dept

Tue, Jan 16th 2007 11:05pm — Mike Masnick

If you thought nine years in jail for spamming was excessive, then how about 101 years for phishing? That's what one phisher is facing after being convicted on various counts for his phishing scam that netted lots of credit card info from gullible AOL users. It's unclear how much time he'll actually get -- and it does seem quite reasonable that phishing fraud scams (which actually involve serious fraud and stealing money from people) should get much longer sentences. However, it still seems like 101 years seems a bit on the long side. It will be interesting to see how much time he actually gets, and how long it takes him to convince his fellow inmates to hand over their personal info.

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65 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2007 @ 11:55pm

Sounds good
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Stymie, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:18am

They should give him 1000 years, but I agree that 101 years seems pretty long for a white collar non-violent crime.
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:19am

Phishing
He didnt take the information people gave it to him. His mistake was taking the money.
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PhysicsGuy, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:26am

"phishing fraud scams" - and that's supposed to be ... what now? ... a fraudulent phishing scam? so were the aol employees pretending to be phishers pretending to be aol employees? ;)

i won't even get into stories about phishing on aol though... it's all to easy when dealing with the aol user base. :x
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:27am

Phishing... and another thing
Why is it that when people discuss phishing they say these bad guys are "stealing" your identity. They did steal anything you gave them that info remember. So who is the fool the person asking for the information or the one giving it?
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Gh0d, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:30am

Tommy 2face
Wether he took the information or tricked them into giving it away... he had to break the law in order to get them to give him the personal information.
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not long enough, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:30am

It's
I do not agree.
101 years sounds good to me.
Anybody that says that 101 is too steep never had to go through the hassle of getting their own life back and never had to work years to repair their credit rating.
The problem with society today begins with the lack of consequences.
The same goes for other white collar crimes of enron and mci.
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:35am

Re: It's
Do you really think this absurd sentence will deter anyone from doing it again? What do the catch one (1) in every 200,000,000 stolen pieces of information? What ever happened to the punishment fits the crime? They are better off making him work will under supervision to help people who have had their identities stolen. Better yet why don’t they make it easier to fix these problems?
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Riley, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:38am

Good Enough
Throw the books at em. The more crimes like these that are tolerated, the more they'll flourish. At least get it out of the controlled areas, like many European countries and USA/Canada, etc. I have no problem with a court being intolerant of cyber crime, especially phishers and con artists. (And child abductors/molesters - they're probably A-#1 on my personal shit-list.)
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PhysicsGuy, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:39am

Re: It's
anybody that says 101 is just right hasn't taken the time to weigh this crime with that of murder and rape, and hasn't take the time to compare this sentence duration of a white collar crime to such heinous acts.
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PhysicsGuy, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:41am

Re: Good Enough
there isn't anyone saying the crimes should be tolerated. he got caught doing the crime so he should, wait for it... ...serve his jail sentence. the main issue is the duration, 101 years is somewhat absurd. :P
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:44am

Re: Good Enough
WHAT??? The thought of prison does not deter crime. America has more people in jail than China. We have more people in prison than almost every other country in the world and crime is still increasing in almost every category. 101 years come on you get less time for kidnapping, torturing, raping and killing children. 101 years…
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dorpus, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:59am

Re: Re: Good Enough
America has more people in jail than China.

Because in China, they simply shoot the worst criminals. Executions of drug dealers are done in sports stadiums.
America has more people in jail because violent criminals are given sentences of 20 or more years, while in many other countries, they are just given sentences of 2-3 years. Many people think Japan is a "safe" country, but sexual predators who rape and kill children are given 2-3 year prison sentences, openly boast to the media that they will do it again, and do it again. There has been talk about sex offender registries or longer sentences, but it remains just talk.

We have more people in prison than almost every other country in the world and crime is still increasing in almost every category.

Which categories? Violent crime has been on a downward trend in the US. Kidnapping in the US is almost extinct. Europe has far higher rates of property crimes than we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Crime
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 1:08am

Reply to dorpus
Here is a quote from the first sentence of your own reference, "Crime in the United States is characterized by relatively high levels of gun violence and homicide, compared to other developed countries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Crime

Good reference
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rossky, 17 Jan 2007 @ 1:16am

and i particular like the binary nature of the punishment - was it a choice of 001, 010, 101... :)
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SHIMON, 17 Jan 2007 @ 1:59am

next time
i think next one who needs to do a nice $ out from the system should just take a gun , kill and rob some federal reserve, more money , less prison.. or maybe they should have charge AOL team too of not preventing this kind of crime, by sending out warnings for non disclosure of credit card info over.

but this is the lesser part, what about the credit card companies who don't just send out notifying letters to costumers for payment confirmation, before actually paying the damn things ? so that all should be protected...

well, just jail the idiot who thought he can go on unpunished , but have his time fit the crime, not his lifetime.

just 2c from me (btw since when unarmed robbery has so high esteem from ???? ) because, in the end, that's what this guy did...
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dorpus, 17 Jan 2007 @ 2:06am

Re: Reply to dorpus
Here is a quote from the first sentence of your own reference, "Crime in the United States is characterized by relatively high levels of gun violence and homicide, compared to other developed countries."

How are you defining a "developed" nation, though? Countries such as Russia, Brazil, South Africa, or Thailand all have highways, skyscrapers, subways, high-tech industries, and aerospace industries; their rates of violent crime are several times higher than the US.

Canadians are raped 2.4 times more often than Americans, Australians are rape 2.6 times more often.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
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The Swiss Cheese Monster, 17 Jan 2007 @ 2:45am

DOH!
So in reality, he may only be getting 6 years....

That isn't bad, for him.
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misanthropic humanist, 17 Jan 2007 @ 3:35am

Re: Good Enough
The more crimes like these that are tolerated, the more they'll flourish

You'd think so wouldn't you. But in fact there are still a relatively small number of operators in this field and the international criminal justice system (insofar as it exists) is practically inert in tackling them. That is why you see draconian sentences, they are effectively an admission by the authorities that they are powerless (or under-resourced and poorly motivated), hence the exagerated chest beating.

But it doesn't work like that. There is an English expression, "In for a penny, in for a pound". What that means, from a criminals point of view, is that harsh sentences have no bearing. Factors influencing the prevalence of non-violent impersonal crime are dominated by the rewards and the likelyhood of arrest. Motives and deterrents alone are not sufficient to explain the crime, unlike murder (passion), manslaughter (fear), child molestation (sexual deviance). These all have well understood motives and usually occur between two actors, perpetrator and victim. But mass fraud, spamming, phishing and other electronic frauds are a really quite a different animal. They are perpetrated by people who do not see themselves as "criminals" but as legitimate businessmen, or politically motivated saboteurs, or corporate/industrial saboteurs. There is a huge grey area where the skullduggery of fraudsters overlaps with the behaviour of corporations and governments, particularly data gathering groups.

At least get it out of the controlled areas, like many European countries and USA/Canada, etc

That's the problem. While the above areas are "controlled", the bases from which fraudsters operate are not. In a way this is payback for bad foriegn policies. Countries we bomb and bully tend to become havens for electronic fraudsters, because their governments turn a blind eye and offer no reciprocal police cooperation, or are actually involved in financing and backing them. If we behaved in a decent way towards other nations we could negotiate proper agreements and they would quickly round up criminals who operate from their soil.
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The infamous Joe, 17 Jan 2007 @ 5:07am

Where'd that big picture go?
He is being convicted of many crimes, and I'm sure if they have him serve them consecuatively it'll take 101 years-- but don't get all confused about it being more than murder or rape-- If he raped all the people he phished, I'm sure they'd be saying he might go to jail for 1414 years. So, enough of the "He should have just robbed a bank, he's get less time." crap-- Robbing 1 bank would be like phishing 300 people. [Note: I made those numbers up to simplify things.] And when you rob a bank, no one (really) gets hurt-- when you take someone's identity it has lasting effects that hurt a perfectly innocent (if not a little careless) person.

I'm sure that they are just trying to send the message that if you phish and get caught you'll be punished to the maximum extent of the law. Which is fine by me-- I personally think that Rape and 1st degree murder need far longer sentences than they have now anyway.
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Sanguine Dream, 17 Jan 2007 @ 5:23am

101 years?
Wow. Its good to see that these crimes are being taken more seriously but I think that is a little steep. 20-40 years perhaps but 101? He would be facing a smaller sentence if he had killed someone, assumed his identity, then plea bargained out.
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Ray, 17 Jan 2007 @ 5:39am

Never own or use a computer
He should be sentenced fairly, be responsible for paying back any money stolen and should never be allowed to own or use a computer, have an email address, ISP or website.

True, this is all difficult to monitor but just like sex-offender lists, fraud lists could be compiled to deter con men like this.

If that doesn't work, next time chop off their fingers.
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Nobody Special, 17 Jan 2007 @ 5:48am

take a breath
I started reading this before this kind of crap hit your pages. This serves no purpose except to "expose" what hasn't even happened yet. Your basis in reality is under attack and the quality of the site is declining.

Focus on actually having useful commentary please.
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Erstazi, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:00am

...
First, the sentence could be up to 101 years. Will this person receive such a sentence? He is scheduled to be sentenced on June 11 and he was arrested a year ago. A link in the article said that he faces a maximum penalty of 30 years. This is a year later, and the prosecutors must have increased what time he is up against.

The real question of reality: is he going to receive more than 30 years?
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Erstazi, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:06am

Would like to add...
that the US violent crime rates are at the lowest in 30 years. Even the rest of the crime rates are at all time lows. Now, I am not a supporter of drugs but drug arrests are on the rise.
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Nasty Old Geezer, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:18am

Way too long
to wait for justice. Just shoot the SOB and bury him next to the spammer.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:23am

Re: Reply to dorpus
How can you say that's a good referance when I can go in there and change any information in there to what ever I want. Wikipedia is a joke and can not be used as a creditable resource. Everyone's statistics are so skewed that only by officals can it be some what accurate. Before you start bringing crap like that in try doing your home work a little bit and bring real resources to the conversation.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:38am

Re: DOH!
if he stole over $100,000 dollars then he should be expected to pay that back with a 100% penalty and interest. How long would he have to work to do that. How about $1,000,000 bucks?
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:39am

Re: Re: Reply to dorpus
Are you going to cry? Do you need a tissue?
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Tommy 2face, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:43am

Re: Would like to add...
Where in the world are you getting your information from? Do you even know who reports crime statistics? What is your reference that supports this facilities statement?
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jvg, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:44am

Re: Way too long
from:
Way too long by Nasty Old Geezer on Jan 17th, 2007 @ 6:18am
to wait for justice. Just shoot the SOB and bury him next to the spammer.
====================
I am with you buddy!
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ehrichweiss, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:48am

101 years is nothing..
I knew a guy who was serving 246 years for various crimes including assault and trafficking, and he was a kid.

If each phishing success yielded $300(making it a felony in most states) and he got 1,000 or more people per offense...he's lucky to not be serving 1,000 years. He'll be out after serving 25% of his time so why's everyone crying? I'd only cry if he were innocent or being put into a maximum security prison, but he's not innocent and he's being put into a federal prison. BAH!!
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Bill Gates and Paul Otellini, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:50am

Anyone that has profited from phishing should rightfully pay a nominal fee of 15% to Microsoft and Intel. After all, we made it all possible!!!
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Disgusted, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:57am

Re: Re: Good Enough
A small number of operators in this field? You're kidding us right?!?! Take a walk around ebay...hundreds of aholes trying to steal peoples Ebay logins/accounts in order to steal from others. That is identity theft as well.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:57am

Re: Re: Re: Reply to dorpus
Way to have a mature attitude. *rolls eyes* Go tell mommy that you're late for school and you need to be changed from your footy pajama's.
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Paul`, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:00am

101 years is ridiculous. You could shoot someone dead in the street and get 25 years, but tricking someone into giving you their information gets 101 years? Whats next, death penalty for public urination?
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Evil_Bastard, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:00am

I'd shoot him in the nuts too.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased), 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:01am

Actual time
I think 419 years would be more appropriate!

The article states multiple crimes. So if he defrauded 50 people and got two years for each count that would sound more reasonable. Also pointed out that he will probably serve each count at the same time. So he may be in jail for a few years then back out to get some more free stuff until he gets caught again.
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Dr. Sarah Bethos, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:10am

Re: Re: Reply to dorpus
It’s very obvious that you have never traveled to Russia, Brazil, South Africa, or Thailand nor do you understand the definition of "developed" nation.

On another note why are you using only one offense to define crime levels? You do understand that rape isn’t the only crime people are committing right? You shouldn’t make a decision about an issue then find information to prove your point it is a very ignorant way to perceive things.

Try this link http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
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Overcast, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:16am

Get let for murder.... Swipe some of the almighty dollar you're done... Kill someone... oh well.
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Untitled, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:40am

Re: Re: It's
What's wrong with fishing, I like fishing.
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leroy, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:48am

101 years too long
all it would take is 5 minutes or less for the firing squad. Imagine what that would do to overall scams on the internet if you can view a few hundred executions on utube of fellow internet scammers. Make viewing mandatory in schools along with discussions to ensure that each child understands the consequences for fraud.

What about a box on your tax forms: Check here if you would like one dollar of your tax money to help fund the international internet fraud attack squads.

leroy
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James, 17 Jan 2007 @ 7:54am

Burn him @ the Stake !!
Along w/any rotten-to-the-core spammers you catch too !!
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Mantouf Kalinchnikov Mondov, 17 Jan 2007 @ 8:02am

Re: 101 years too long
If this is the logical response to fraud then some could say the people behind the lies for why we invaded Iraq would have to suffer the same consequence.
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Rich Kulawiec, 17 Jan 2007 @ 8:12am

Since there is no such thing as an
Perhaps FTC Commissioner Orson Swindle had it right
when he said (back in May of 2003 ):"What we need are a
couple of good hangings."
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 8:30am

Honestly
I don't think 101 years is enough... like sombody said already... those who got hit by this guy have to work there Arses off for the rest of there life. phisers screw the life up for hundreds, even thousands of people.

101 years isn't enough for sombody who had fun and enjoyment from screwing over thousands of people. he should be beaten and gaged, then giveing about 500 year sentence. and he should also spend that entire time in prison with the most openly homos out there.. in a private cell with about 4 of them
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EXrider, 17 Jan 2007 @ 9:05am

Good!
As a person who went through the long, ridiculous process of recovering from identity theft...

101 years sounds about right, and I hope he gets ass raped repeatedly by several large inmates while he's there!

And no, I didn't fall victim to some phisher, it all started when I was 13, which should be a red flag in itself to stupid ass credit bureaus!
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Jon, 17 Jan 2007 @ 9:16am

Re: It's
Should Be 1001 years! Comin' from a person that had the hassle of getting their life back together after a person stole his identity and getting Credit Cards! Those Bastards only did 6 months in jail. So yeah, 101 years sounds good to me!
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Jon, 17 Jan 2007 @ 9:22am

Re: It's
Should Be 1001 years! Comin' from a person that had the hassle of getting their life back together after a person stole his identity and getting Credit Cards! Those Bastards only did 6 months in jail. So yeah, 101 years sounds good to me!
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Erstazi, 17 Jan 2007 @ 9:59am

Re: Re: Would like to add...
Follow the links (:

One would be lead to believe that the Bureau of Justice Statistics is credible.
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Will R., 17 Jan 2007 @ 10:08am

Re: It's
I completely agree with this statement. We are far too lenient on punishment. I'm one of the few pro-death penalty democrats that I know.

Someone recently told me how in Japan, if you're caught driving with your cell phone up to your ear, they slap you with a $2000.00 USD fine (that's like 20,000 yen, or something), and they're telling me this and saying how excessive it is. But I agree with it!!
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Derek Kerton (profile), 17 Jan 2007 @ 10:12am

Nope
"If you thought nine years in jail for spamming was excessive,"

I didn't.
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Mortimer Schnurd, 17 Jan 2007 @ 11:34am

Let's be Realistic
First of all, 101 years is a headline grabber. Sure, with all the multiple counts the outside possibility may be 101 years. However, in all probability the 101 years is based on the sum total of years associated with multiple counts of the same crime and sentences being served consecutively. After all is said and done, this perpetrator will most likely receive a few years for each count of which all will be served concurrently. Most likely this guy will be out within a few years.
Hopefully he will have learned his lesson and even more hopefully, others will think twice about trying their own phishing scam.
This will not stop true criminals from phishing but it just may help deter some kiddies from becoming a criminal.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 11:57am

Re:
I totally agree with your statement, but I think you're completely wrong.

Yeah. Tard.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:01pm

Re: Phishing
People didn't GIVE their information to him by free will – he lied about who he was in order to obtain their information . That's what fraud is; or didn't you know that?

He obtained personally identifiable information through fraudulent methods AND stole. That's two separate crimes there bud.
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DL, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:10pm

Re: Phishing... and another thing
The people scammed didn't give HIM their information. They gave the company he was mimicking their information. The fact that he was pretending to be someone he was not is fraud and is illegal.

What's you're deal anyway? Some innocent gets screwed because they aren't a web dev and all of a sudden they're at fault that someone ripped them off? That's a real asshole perspective.

If you look at it that way, when you're grandma gets had for everything she's worth cause she tried to buy you a Christmas gift I hope you have a change of heart – otherwise please don't breed; we don't need more of you.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:13pm

Re: Re: It's
Perhaps it's not so simple? Maybe you should go work in this sector so you can enlighten us all to how it should be done.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:15pm

Re: It's
Absolutely. I have no sympathy for those who get caught undermining the hard work the majority of us go through in order to scrape together a living.

Fuck em. Swallow the key and let em rot.
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Ric, 17 Jan 2007 @ 12:20pm

Re: 101 years seems pretty long
101 years is simply over the line.
I say 99 years would be sufficient.
(It could'a been LIFE!)
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Heated, 17 Jan 2007 @ 2:57pm

not long enough...
Hang him next to Sadam instead...
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Glomar, 17 Jan 2007 @ 3:54pm

101 years is not enough
What was the perp thinking?

Certainly it was not goodness. Most likely, the perp did not consider for a moment the hurt he could cause by stealing someones identity, credit card. That, good people, is the very definition of sociopathy. His actions were no different from those of mass murderers. He is a menace to society and no amount of prison time is enough to change his personality. Sociopathy cannot be cured.

So, what is the solution? Execution. Yup. That works.
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|333173|3|_||3, 17 Jan 2007 @ 6:23pm

AOL phising
Dear sir,
May I interset you in a new, one (per week) only offer. All you need to do is reply to this email with your bank adnd credit card information to recieve a potential debt of several thousand dollars, the proceeds of which will ultimately benefit myself.
I hope to recieve your details soon,
Yours sincerely,
***
(professional scammer)

THat sould do the trick for AOL users.

!)! years serves him right for not going to somewhere that does not care about phishing scammers, where he could havem ade his mint and returned home if he felt like it after a few years. Much more sensilbe, and less likely to lead to jail.
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Kevin Delaney, 23 Jan 2007 @ 9:29am

The Punishment Should Fit the Crime
I think the punishment should fit the crime. For example, I think this bastard should be looked in a room and forced to read all of the phishing hooks and spam that hit a typic web site in a web.

For example, if he was forced to read all of the spam thrown at me in a week ... it would take just about 101 years.
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me, 13 Jun 2007 @ 7:22am

shit
this is bullshit
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you, 13 Jun 2007 @ 7:24am

Re: shit
yeap, 101 are too many, 50 would me enough
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