Zune Not So Social When Record Labels Get Involved
from the welcome-to-the-what? dept
Microsoft's Zune, supposedly their iPod killer has had plenty of problems. Beyond ignoring Microsoft's own (ironically named) "Plays for Sure" DRM and making the WiFi on the device effectively useless, Microsoft keeps focusing on playing up the "sharing" aspect of the device. Of course, they leave out just how limited the sharing is. You can share some songs with some people, but only in a very limited way. In fact, plenty of people today are discussing the fact that a very large percentage of songs that Microsoft offers in its own download store cannot be shared at all, as apparently Microsoft allowed the labels to block sharing on certain songs. This is ridiculous for a variety of reasons. First of all, the sharing isn't at all like typical file sharing, but is already so locked down as to be somewhat useless. It really is only good as a promotion the way Microsoft set it up (which might also explain why it doesn't get much usage). To then go and let the labels agree to block sharing on many, many songs just seems wrong. It's not clear why Microsoft has been so willing to roll over and play stupid to the recording industry's demands. It's also still not at all clear why Microsoft agreed to pay a dollar for every device sold to Univeral music, especially since Universal seems to be one of the labels that actively is stopping its songs from being shared via the Zune. It makes no sense from Universal Music's point of view. They actually get money from Zune sales. Shouldn't they be encouraging the features that might differentiate the Zune? Instead, they decide to make the device even more of a laughingstock.
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Now in theory I can send my photos to a friend. That is cool.
The zune is a music and video device plain and simple. It does everything I want it to. It plays music, I can play video (usually tv I've recorded on the computer) and it works well for showing off pictures I've taken. The actual zune store has music and is easy to use. The device itself works well and I personally think it looks and feels beter than an Ipod.
Maybe the wireless is crippled for what consumers want. Maybe its not. I don't know and I don't really care because its not a function I care about.
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As you quite rightly say, the dollar to universal doesn't seem to make any sense - why cripple the Zune, then cripple it a bit more while paying people money (in theory) in order to allow them to not cripple it - if that makes sense. Very weird. Incidentally, I'm not in any way associated with archos, I just own one and they're very cool. :)
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Another Shameless plug
No the elephant in the room is the Cowon iAudio A2 which has a 10 hour video playback capability plays any audio or video format you throw at it. Even records into MP4 with optional TV Reception module this device can really do it all. Check it out here
http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/cowon/a2/
If I had the money I would join my other friends and purchase one of the bad boys.
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All you can eat music at last!
It's about time, thanks MS and Universal !!! ;-)
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Zune
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Zune is good?
Maybe for the novice user that is very used to the MS interface, but for a flexible power-user, no.
Arguing over whether a 2.5" or 3" screen is better seems silly to me, they're both too small.
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Re: Zune is good?
power user?!?! o.O it's a media player you half-wit...
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slanted journalism
They "allowed"? that suggests that MS had a choice in the matter. For all the site-promoting linking you do, trying looking beyond techdirt for change and see what MS is "allowing" to happen, here. and for those who don't care to read beyond the painful bias of TechDirt (god forbid we move beyond 1990's-era MS bashing), the most notable quote from the article is what MS has to say to the recording industry:
"we can do this to you, or we can do this with you. We want to do it with you"
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Lame!
iTMS wasn't the first online music service, but it was the first to set up a DRM system that accommodated the way people used their digital music (multiple computers and devices). It's amazing that Microsoft tries to innovate with "The Social," and then so happily hamstrings it.
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The good & the bad
The killer aspect of the Zune is the subscription based Zune Marketplace. For about $15/month you can easily fill your Zune with music. That is a big win in my house - this has made the Zune the preferred music player (we have a shuttle and a video iPod in the house that are hardly used anymore). However, Microsoft doesn't have their act together on DRM. There are several open issues that I've called Zune support for:
1) DRM music stutters randomly on the Zune. Support suggested turning on the backlight because it fixes this for some folks. Of course that’s ridiculous; I presume a firmware release is coming to fix this.
2) I've had to remove all DRM files, restore the DRM licensing and redownload twice at the direction of Zune support because the DRM-issues have prevented me from playing downloaded music on my PC. It's annoying and shows that Microsoft still has a way to go to get seamless DRM working.
3) Not all music that is available for purchase on the Zune market place is downloadable using the subscription service. Some albums have no songs that are available other seem to randomly have individual songs that aren't available.
All of this is annoy, but I guess that’s what happens when version 1.0 of a product really is a beta version.
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Re:
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Remember...Ipods suck...end of story
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Zunes are for tards
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Obligatory...
"All your Zune are belong to us."
"I, for one, welcome our new Zune overlords"
"Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of those?"
1. Buy a Zune
2. Buy DRM "enhanced" media
3. ...
4. Profit!
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DRMing* Digital files* Analog ears
Record
Play back
Record
Convert
"save as"
Drag and drop
Done!
IF you really want to play with DRM
HAHAHA good grief Charlie Brown
One or two of these steps could be eliminated if your really savvy
Game on Play ON
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my psp does all that..
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Zune really is a laughing stock
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The other day I read an excellent post about someone theorizing why the RIAA does this stuff. It is because they want control. It doesn't seem logical, and they aren't turning a profit. It is all about control.
Unfortunately, things aren't going to get better. After the RIAA, after Microsoft, after Apple, after the fanboys of all types, there will always be a major failure amongst people. The failure to relinquish the need for money, power, and our undying greed. There will never be the type of society where a everybody shares and plays nicely, where everyone works and reaps the collective benefit, and there will always be a power hungry and seemingly "dumb" corporation.
The worst part of it all, is that when we think there is light at the end of this dark tunnel of the human era, it will turn out to be someone or something with a great idea that hasn't the balls to implement it or it will be destroyed by the very people who need it the most.
Obviously, there is a problem. Most unfortunate is the fact that there isn't a solution that will ever come to be.
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all the zune haters....
ipod ≈ zune ≈ a hunk of crap that people only buy because 2/3 of humans are psychologically sheep who fall prey to publicity and don't realize there are better solutions that exist in the market place because there isn't a) fancy commercials b) news articles concerning said product.
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all the zune lovers...
ipod>zune in quality, design, interface, appearance.
ipod>>zune in capacity, value.
ipod>>>zune in sales.
do the math... if you can.
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Re: Elephant in the Room
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@Dadshome
One would have to believe that the reason they went after FareUse4WM with such feverant passion was because it also successfully removed the watermarking. I imagine that other tools continue to exist because the watermark still lives on in the converted WAV or MP3. If so, you'd have to reson that the watermarking is embedded at play-time. I'd be careful distributing anything that came from a protected WMV/WMA format.
The next update to Winders Media Player will probably use watermarking to re-evaluate MP3 DRM playback priviledges.
Scary thought, but check this link out.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,43389,00.html
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Re:
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Zounds like protection money to me
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This is actually a serious question
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Watermarking
Time will tell just how successful if at all the Zune will be.
I am old enough to have purchased the very first Sony Walkman, at that time, 1979 the only competition was another Japan made product that was available. All this was about to change in a hurry. At least we have alternatives to digital music players, some not worth the cost of shipping others just to good to believe.
I guess the point I want to make is that regardless what brand of portable music player you own, the music you bought and paid for should be yours to do with as you please.
It would be interesting to see just how deep this watermarking and or DRM will go to thwart attempts of sharing, rerecording, or format conversion.
If recording companies really are embedding information of ANY type it must be made aware to the end user. I did not buy data other than what I was told was there...
What's next? We have seen root kits, could subliminal messages or worse be next?
The music industry IS NOT really in trouble, people will always buy recorded music. the model of how music is distributed has changed... AGAIN.
It would be an interest to know just what real monetary compensation there is on all levels in that business of recording, marketing, and distributing music.
Hopefully when artists decide to be managed and or sign contracts, they will have the savvy to hire only top notch web designers and servers that will only be very eager to provide all that is needed to be successful in their rise to stardom.
Caveat emptor
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CAPITALS as PUNCTUATION
You are just so much wiser and smarter than the rest of us. Sony Walkman in 1979, what are you, 60 years old now? Save us your righteous indignation, will ya pops.
Also, Zunes suck and everyone knows it.
I like the story about the 14 yearold on xmas. I bet that happened alot last year.
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Re: all the zune lovers...
yea right,
quality = the same (i've known plenty of people with plenty of issues with their ipods, just as i'm sure there are plenty of people with plenty of issues with their zunes),
design = the same kinda of design that ALL mp3 players have now which are based off of software mp3 player guis...
interface = read above, about the same as far as functionality is concerned, of course ipod users won't like the zune interface as they won't like ANY other interface as they're familiar with the one they have, and we all know how scary unfamiliar things are to the majority of you sheep ... nice try... and next?
ipod>>zune in capacity, value.
for the first zune release yes, there is a bigger ipod, however the 30gig ipod is roughly the same price and microshaft is coming out with bigger zune models ... nice try... and next?
ipod>>>zune in sales.
wow, the ipod's been out since 2001 where it was the only mp3 type device with tv commercials. the zune's been out for a little over 2 months trying to infiltrate a market overrun by the ipod... and you wonder why the ipod has better sales? moron... how about we give microsoft more than the month we gave them before we determine whether or not it's a success or failure considering it took the ipod 3 years to "dominate the market", huh? and next?
oh wait, that's all? way to demonstrate nothing at all about the supposed "superiority" of your "all-things-wonderful-and-holy" ipod, jackass.
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throw me a soapbox
Today, there is no record, no tape, but there is cd. the future's based around nothing physical, which poses a threat to the business model (duh). There is no equalization curve, no hiss, no noise in a digital format. No royalties to be made.
Yet... they want to be compensated for the per-transaction cost they get whenever a physical recording is created, but there is no physical recording (Mechanical Reproduction Rights)
Want to venture a guess that RIAA will change their name to Rights Industry Association of America? I mean, they are already active in creating laws across boarders, forcing drm down our throats, and jailing grannies because they dont have proper "rights" to, well, at the end of the day, listen to something.
Then, let's sue XM, and anyone and everything that doesn't support "our" timeshifting format of CD/Tape or LP.
If they aren't locked into our format, we'll sue, and sue, and sue, and sue.
To record in essence means that something physical has to be captured from an analog source, right? But, what if it never changes to analog?
It's all about who has rights to do what these days, and how blindly our leadership in Washington marches to the "piracy" beat. This so-called piracy is is real poor excuse for changing your business model.
If spoken aloud, this post will be protected by TechDirt DRM (P).
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Re: CAPITALS as PUNCTUATION
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Re: Re: all the zune lovers...
ipod>zune in quality, design, interface, appearance.
yea right,
quality = the same (i've known plenty of people with plenty of issues with their ipods, just as i'm sure there are plenty of people with plenty of issues with their zunes),
NO, RIGHT. THE % OF ZUNES RETURNED WITH PROBLEMS IS GREATER THAN ANY MODEL OF THE IPOD.
design = the same kinda of design that ALL mp3 players have now which are based off of software mp3 player guis...
WRONG AGAIN GENIUS, THE ZUNE MAY BE A RIP-OFF OF THE IPOD, BUT THEY COULDN'T EVEN GET THAT RIGHT. IT TAKES MORE STOKES TO DO THE SAME THING. IT HAS MORE GLITCHES AND THE IMAGE LOOKS SOFTER. THE FIT AND FEEL IS ALSO INFERIOR AS MANY HAVE POINTED OUT ALL OVER THE WEB. TRY A SERACH.
interface = read above, about the same as far as functionality is concerned, of course ipod users won't like the zune interface as they won't like ANY other interface as they're familiar with the one they have, and we all know how scary unfamiliar things are to the majority of you sheep ... nice try... and next?
NO, READ ABOVE, FOOL.
ipod>>zune in capacity, value.
for the first zune release yes, there is a bigger ipod, however the 30gig ipod is roughly the same price and microshaft is coming out with bigger zune models ... nice try... and next?
THE DAY THE ZUNE CAME OUT 60 GB IPODS HAD BEEN OUT 11 MONTHS. BIGGER MODELS YA HA HA HA HA,
MS ISN'T SURE THEY ARE GOING TO DISTRIBUTE THE REMAINDER OF THE 30 GBS ZUNES BECAUSE ONLY HALF A MILL HAVE SOLD!!! AL MAJOR RETAILERS ARE OVERSTOCKED
ipod>>>zune in sales.
wow, the ipod's been out since 2001 where it was the only mp3 type device with tv commercials. the zune's been out for a little over 2 months trying to infiltrate a market overrun by the ipod... and you wonder why the ipod has better sales? moron... how about we give microsoft more than the month we gave them before we determine whether or not it's a success or failure considering it took the ipod 3 years to "dominate the market", huh? and next?
WRONG AGAIN YOU IDIOT, THE IPOD OUTSOLD THE ZUNE BY 6 TO 1 IN THE PERIOD SINCE THE ZUNE WAS INTRODUCED INCLUDING THE WEEK OF ITS DEBUT. TRY A BIT OF READING BEFORE YOU SHOOT YOUR MOUTH OFF. "POOR MICROSOFT, IF WE ONLY GAVE THEM A FAIR CHANCE BEFORE REVIEWING THEIR PRODUCT"
oh wait, that's all? way to demonstrate nothing at all about the supposed "superiority" of your "all-things-wonderful-and-holy" ipod, jackass.
I THINK THE POST WAS IN RESPONSE TO SOME OTHER CLOWN WHO SAID THE IPOD = ZUNE. IT NEVER WILL BE ON ANY LEVEL AS LONG AS IT IS A M$ PRODUCT. MAN, TRY A BIT OF READING, LOL, YOU ARE THE JACKASS.
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Re: Re: CAPITALS as PUNCTUATION
hmm, did you read your own post? The father was going to spend the money regardless.
I think the point was that more people want ipods than zunes. If you are going to spend $200 on a kid for Christmas, you could at least give him what he wants instead of listening to your Micro$loth shill at work.
It is pretty amazing if you think about it: That a 5 year old product in this day and age would continue to outsell a brand new device from the world leader in computers.
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PhysicsGuy = dumbshit
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Re:
PhysicsGuy = dumbshit
LOL !
I hope his "physics" isn't as bad as his math.
He obviously isn't a "reseach" physicistGuy
peace out,
joey
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Zune Ambassadors for real!
http://generationzune.net/?p=130
Yes, apple my have TV commercials pushing their product but this is just plain EVIL, even for Microsoft. Are 18-22 year olds really going to fall for this? Who is this really targeting?
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What else is new?
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Re: Zune Ambassadors for real!
http://generationzune.net/?p=130
Dude, this is much worse than DRM! At least DRM has an easy work around that lets you choose the level of blind compliance/piracy you are personally comfortable with.
Getting kids to actually contact other kids to push a product is more akin to what crack dealers do than even the vilest corporations. Even big tobacco, in their worst direct marketing days, weren't handing out free cigs to kids to give to other kids. The amazing thing is that they would think this might work on today's young people. I mean these "Zune Masters" are self-identified corporate shills. How cool could that possibly look? Would 20 year olds hang out with these losers just because they have an "exclusive zune" or the "right look and attitude"?
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Re: maybe it is, maybe it's not
The important thing is of course that you're happy with your player. But it's a sad state that these companies who charge quite a bit of money from us, announce functions that don't work. It's be better if what they sold did.
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Re: Re: Re: all the zune lovers...
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Portable music sharing
No drm, no software required. just 60 gb of space that shows up automatically when plugged into any computer. Tiny video screen (I bought a music player, I dont need a screen. Seriously, watching movies on a portable...why?).
It also plays OGG and FLAC files. And records voice. And has a line in jack.
So here's how it works, plug the host cable into the usb host port, and plug a second x5 into the cable, and you can transfer files from one to the other, anywhere.
That is freedom, and that is why the x5 is the dominator in the mp3 player market. It also tells you how many volts are in the battery every time you turn it on. It seems to be good for about 18-20 hours of music playback on one charge.
I am serious when I say it is the greatest thing ever. Their a5 might be nice, but really, i dont care about video, and the a5 battery goes pretty quick I hear.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: all the zune lovers...
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It wasn't fun. The fact that Zune doesn't work with the flagship, Windows Media Player, right off the bat told me that this might not be the most user-friendly and well thought out product. After screwing around with it almost non-stop for a few days I concluded,
1. The Zune-PC management software doesn't suck. It's mediocre.
2. The Zune device can't delete anything off of itself. Everything must be done through the Zune pc software. Trying to annoy me on purpose?
3. Only natively supported video files are wmv mp4 and h.162. Monopolistic behavior. Restricting flexibility because they can.
4. Wireless is marketed (and has potential, obviously) but has no practical functionality.
5. The Zune controls are better for the user exercising because they are tactile instead of the flat touch sensitive wheel that forces you to look at the screen to navigate even if you've memorized the menu levels.
I quickly got tired of transcoding video. Not why I bought the Zune. So I returned t.
Then I bought the Ipod video 30gb. Now, I didn't know much about Ipod before buying the device. There are very obvious problems to this thing.
1. Music from iTunes can't be played on other mp3 players once your Ipod dies and you want to go to another mp3 manufacturer. So if in 2 years you buy 250 songs at $1 each to play on our $250 Ipod you're screwed and out of $500. Ipod+the songs.
This doesnt affect me personally as I would never buy from iTunes but that is quite a serious detraction as a product for someone that is going to buy from iTunes. Actually, it should be the end of the conversation for that kind of user.
2. The controls were much better than Zune, if you are looking at the screen and not exercising or anything else that might require you not. The wheel moves nicely, very responsive and smooth.
3. iTunes does suck. I've actually heard people say that it was a good interface. I think these must be people that purchase music from iTunes which is really what the software is; a kiosk into the online store. Importing music and other Ipod controls seem to be an afterthought (and honestly, keeping in mind that Apple Corp. and all corporations exist to turn profits, those functions ARE secondary to them)
4. Pretty out of the box, the Ipod scratches very easily. Seriously. Before removing it from the box, I read reviews from users complaining about easy scratches and so I was gentle. Still, after a day I noticed two microscratches. Not a big deal except it was only 1 day. What might it look like after 365 days? Shoddy and rushed manufacturing.
5. The Ipod too has video format restrictions resulting directly from the impulse of monopolistic companies. Unlike other mp3 players like Archos and Creative they offer you less choice.
It's not that Apple or MS can't create good product. We all know that they can. Crappy(the Zune) and mediocre (Ipod) products are the direct result of the size and market dominance of these companies and thus their knowledge that they will be able to hammer people into buying their products with advertising and constant presence in people's lives. If Creative advertised even half of what Ipod does, I think they could garner more market share. I haven't seen the Zune ad ramp-up yet but it's sure to come.
The Zune isn't a good player when one considers offerings from the competition at the same or similar price points.
And the Ipod is a mediocre player that has gained dominance because of incessant tv, internet, newspaper and magazine ads. As a mp3 player consumer just entering the market but having seen the various manufacturers ads for these players since they began running them, I feel this opinion is honest.
I haven't taken the Ipod back yet. As I said it isn't bad and I like the way that it looks and the cool factor, both of which, I know are the result of the Apple marketing dept. I was thinking that if I could find another program to control it, I might hang onto it so that I could look cool in public since that is the major area it excels over competitors like Archos, Creative and Cowon.
From my experience with the Zune I predict it will either come up with actual practical uses for the wifi undergo a major facelift/overhaul or it will disappear after 3 stubborn years.
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Zune Death
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ZUNE INTERFACE IS BETTER THAN itunes
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Zune rocks
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