Downloads... Or An Inability To Adjust To Changing Times... Force Musicians To Get Second Jobs

from the don't-blame-the-downloads dept

Mon, Apr 2nd 2007 6:52am — Mike Masnick

Julian Doherty writes in to point us to an article where the local Recording Industry Association chief in New Zealand is blaming unauthorized file sharing for the fact that a number of musicians he represents had to go out and find day jobs. It makes for a good story, but it's sort of like blaming the automobile business for putting the makers of horse-drawn carriages out of business. The market has shifted and a lot of people clearly don't want to consume music the way they used to. The answer isn't (as the guy wants) more government protectionism to prop up a failing business model, but for the industry itself to adjust. There's more music than ever before being created, thanks to tools that make it easier and cheaper than ever before to make, record, distribute and promote music. That's why all sorts of services that support the music industry are booming. So, it's not about needing special government protections to prop up an old business model, it's about having musicians recognize and embrace some of the new business models that are showing up every day.

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dorpus, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:04am

Since when was music a full-time job?
Since the days of cavemen, most musicians have had to work day jobs while pursuing music as an ancillary source of income.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased), 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:14am

Musicians must work
I always thought musicians worked their menial jobs until their music career became profitable enough to stop working. If your career has become unprofitable then it would make good sense to find another means of livelihood. I guess it would suck if you didn't have to do any work for a while and now, since you don't make any money, you have to get another job. That's why the Stones keep going on tour. They decided they need some more money but can't write any more good music. They probably forgot how to work, too, but I know there are lots of job openings for senior types welcoming at WalMart. Touring is probably harder work than sitting around plucking tunes and bitching back and forth with the other band members. Unless a popular musician is wise (most aren't) your money will eventually run out. Time to adapt if you want to eat.
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Quantum John (profile), 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:16am

Competition
Increased competition also decreases sales for specific products. Not surprisingly, the RIA rep said nothing about increased competition, which explains his clients' plight better than his theory.
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IRCH, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:18am

Whining
Unauthorized music sharing is still illegal in most places. Probably will be for some time to come, if not for ever. Bottom line is, creators of music have the right to control the distribution thereof. If you don't like that, change the law. If you break the law, don't be surprised if you are prosecuted.
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cb, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:22am

oh my !! a DAY job.

Welcome to the real world .
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Adam, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:48am

most musicians DO work day jobs...
the one's that don't are either:

1) pop-artists who aren't really artists

2) starving artists

i make music and work, and it's pretty fullfilling on both ends, plus i don't have to rely on my art to feed me

god forbid they have to work a day job, cry me a river...
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OMAC, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:49am

"There's more music than ever before being created, thanks to tools that make it easier and cheaper than ever before to make, record, distribute and promote music."

Yeap, it couldn't possibly be competition...

When I see Lars Ulrich flipping burgers then I'll start to give a crap and maybe even worry a little.
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:52am

Re: Whining
Yes, distributing copyright material is illegal. Does this change the fact that the musicians should stop whining and get real jobs? No. If you are good enough and driven enough to make all your required income from music, then you can do it. The market for music was artificially inflated and now that it's shifting, it's becoming more difficult for musicians to just sit back and collect a check for not doing anything.

Artists of all kinds have always had a hard to understanding that just because they like to do it, doesn't mean they can make a living at it. I like to race cars. I know that I probably won't become a professional driver, although I pick up sponsors. Since I don't make enough money racing cars, I have a real job that provides my income to be able to do what I like to do.

I have the ability to separate fantasy from reality, why can't they?
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 7:53am

Re: Whining
"Unauthorized music sharing is still illegal in most places. Probably will be for some time to come, if not for ever. Bottom line is, creators of music have the right to control the distribution thereof. If you don't like that, change the law. If you break the law, don't be surprised if you are prosecuted."

Yes, distributing copyright material is illegal. Does this change the fact that the musicians should stop whining and get real jobs? No. If you are good enough and driven enough to make all your required income from music, then you can do it. The market for music was artificially inflated and now that it's shifting, it's becoming more difficult for musicians to just sit back and collect a check for not doing anything.

Artists of all kinds have always had a hard to understanding that just because they like to do it, doesn't mean they can make a living at it. I like to race cars. I know that I probably won't become a professional driver, although I pick up sponsors. Since I don't make enough money racing cars, I have a real job that provides my income to be able to do what I like to do.

I have the ability to separate fantasy from reality, why can't they?
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John, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:02am

BS
Guess what, I'm a signed musician, and I also have a day job unfortunately. I'm also realistic about the situation, the reason I have to work is because my music isn't popular (ie. commercial), and because in nu-metal (don't laugh or I'll bite your head off!), there are THOUSANDS of bands as good as ours and out there competing for the same dollars and euros. Downloading isn't to blame; a wider choice of music is (not to mention the video game industry). This is nothing more than survival of the fittest, the top bands will sell, the second tier will have to work on the side, like me, and not complain, like me. In any case, you can't stop downloading, especially today, with all of these new encrypted downloading softwares ( http://www.gigatribe.com is an example )
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Dewy, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:10am

Day Job?
Lets start this out by saying a manager who doesn't recommend his client with a name like Bic Runga change it immediately, probably doesn't deserve success. There is something to a name that has to draw in your audience... and of course the music... but to draw them in you need a good name.

Secondly, I agree with the poster above who points out sales of alternate entertainment are UP across the board. The price of CD's are artificially inflated, and most often are poorly promoted.

The kind author of the article linked doesn't ask the manager how the tour dates compared to the more successful years, or if they are considering new business models. Just how they want to punish the public for not overcompensating them for their product.

Why can't the industry accept that personal use of "Illegally" downloaded music is NOT criminal. Courts across the world have acknowledged that possessing and listening to music is not a crime. Sharing it or redistributing it for profit IS a crime... but is NOT where they are losing the market.

As an artist I welcome the open access to the public that has be unavailable to me prior to the internet. When the industry embraces that philosophy and devotes the effort that it now spends blaming, threatening and prosecuting Fans / Filesharers to more effectively reaching out to these new players in the industry... then things will balance out.

Artists will always find a way to make money, Fans will always find a way to listen to music. Its the people who exploit that relationship who need to adapt, or lose their revenue stream.
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angry dude, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:12am

hogwash
Mike, give it up, everybody is sick already

Whether you are talking about patents or copyrights you are absolutely clueless about what's going on in the
real world.

The advent of Internet made global distribution of copyrighted materials like music too damn easy..
it is now at the point when every 6th grader knows how to install and use e.g. Limewire on their own PC with high-speed internet to get all the songs they like for FREE (then burn them on CD, or copy to their IPods), without even thinking of buying an original CD, or a tape, or a vinil disk (like we used to do in the good old times)
The I-Pod generation... They want everything for free and now. I don't see anything good coming out of this kind of mentality.
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I dont care, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:13am

dont care
I have been getting screwed over by the music industry for years, paying 27 bucks for a CD with 1 good song on it!! That totally pisses me off. If the big corps died because of downloading, im going to download more, screw you guys!!!!

As for working during the day, try living on 40K a year. Most of us do that, so I have no hard feelings for musicians that have to work for a living, I would gladly switch incomes with you.
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:19am

Re: hogwash
I loved that lack of information in your posting... really helps your case. What you fail to realize is that a world where everything is distributed faster and easier has been the destination of technology forever. This is progress, it's a matter of consumer demand. Why do you think iTunes and other pay per download sites are doing such good business while the CD sales are slowing? It's not like everyone is out to get something for nothing, but that is the direction inflated prices pushed their customer base. The record industry did this to themselves with absurd prices.

You may not like progress but you can not stop it. If they do not adapt it is no ones fault but their own then they are left behind.
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dorpus, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:21am

Re: hogwash
What I'm sensing is Mike's frustrated ambition to become a musician himself. Where does the need to endlessly bash the music industry come from?
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dorpus, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:22am

Re: hogwash
We notice that Mike is curiously silent on commerical software, even though its business model is the same as the music industry.
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:32am

Re: Re: hogwash
"We notice that Mike is curiously silent on commerical software, even though its business model is the same as the music industry."

The commercial software industry has key differences. In software you have two primary models of revenue. The first is by volume sales, which is based on selling a huge amount of a product. This is similar to music, with the exception that they realize they can't only do this and succeed. A long with selling large volume, you must make sure that you keep your customers coming back for future versions, and you need to push the versions out with adequate features to make it a valid purchase for the customer. If a software company forced products on it's customers like the record industry did, they would not get any business. The second model is subscription. That is somewhat like what the online download sites tried, but they don't have the benefit of knowing when new products will come out that are in demand. In the software world, users that pay for subscriptions gain influence in product development and drive the direction of the product. Also note that there is a greater deal of competition in software. Companies compete and are not regulated by few primary entities. If anything, I would compare the music industry to the oil industry.

While similar, consumer software's model is not the same as the music industries. This is why consumer the software market does not have the same problem with a huge plummet in sales. Software will always be in demand as long as it is what the consumer wants/needs. Some software vendors do raise a stink about copyright infringement from time to time, but it's more for political sake then actual monetary gain. It's generally accepted that it is boosting revenue then harming it.
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angry dude, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:34am

Re: hogwash by dorpus
"We notice that Mike is curiously silent on commerical software, even though its business model is the same as the music industry"

Maybe he is just a paid little stooge sucking up to his big corporate masters ? The amount of misinformation and confusion about tech policies he publishes here is just unbelievable...
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Alex Hagen, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:40am

Sigh.
You are like a broken record Mike. Every time a news story comes out that demonstrates how people downloading music illegally is hurting the people who create music, you trot out the same tired arguments and blame them instead of the people pirating. The inevitable result of the collapse of the music industry that you so desperately want is not some mythical "new business model" but artists deciding not that it isn't worth their time to create music anymore and finding day jobs instead. Piracy hurts actual people, not just faceless corporations.
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The Man, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:45am

It will be Interesting
I think the music industry will be intersting to watch in the next ten years. My prediction is there will be signigicantly less new music released then. Currently musicians are still laboring under the "old business model", including the millions who have yet to make a buck. They are in the "business" to try to make money at some point in their life. If you can no longer make money by making and selling a record album because now all music is free, many will stop trying and many more will never start.

Tech dirt keeps talking about the "new business model" that will make all these musicians rich by giving away thier music for free. I have yet to hear them explain what the business model would be, but I guess if they knew they would be not be writing for a third rate internet blog.

Don't tell me that all the bands are going to stay in music to work live. Very few make more than a couple hundred a night for the whole band. Not much to pass around there.
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Howard Lee Harkness, 2 Apr 2007 @ 8:48am

I'm a musician with a day job.
I'm a musician with a day job. Has nothing whatsoever to do with downloads of anything. Has to do with the fact that other things (like writing software) have been a much better living for me. I was with a professional symphony at age 17, and my W-2 for the year was less than $1000 (in today's dollars, that would be about $10k). As a kid living at home, that was a splendid allowance, but I already knew it wasn't a living. That was long before the age of 'downloads' -- it was even before Phillips cassettes!

When I retire (fairly soon, I hope), I will be a full-time violin teacher/dealer/repair technician.
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Trey Smith, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:03am

what a stupid article!
" don't want to consumer music the way they used to" Nice english...

Anyhow, The horse to car analogy is clearly flawed, it would only apply if say we stopped hearing music and started smelling it. This is not a market shift, it is clearly theft. I have done it, you have done it. It doesn't mean it's ok. The Nazi party tried the same ideas, hey everyone hates jews! It's OK!

I'm a music thief. You are a music thief, we simply lack the courage and resolve to buy a gun and physically rob a store. Instead we choose to hide behind a PC safe in the knowledge that we cannot ALL be caught.
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titanandrews, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:08am

The issue is nowadays everyone thinks they can sing and play good music which is flooding the market with a bunch of crap. Those who are really good ( or at least perceived to be ) will survive. The others should keep that day job.
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Alex Hagen, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:15am

Commercial software
"The commercial software industry has key differences."

It does, but not the ones you stated. Piracy costs the software industry a lot of money too. The fact is that most people don't need the new versions of software that come out every year, and the people that pirated the first versions are going to pirate the new versions as well.

The big difference between the software industry and the music industry is that software gets most of it's money from business, and unlike Torrent users, business owners ARE afraid of lawsuits, so they make sure to get licenses. Software companies aren't too concerned about the casual user, so they let it slide because the issue, while not gone, is under control. If businesses had the same rate of software piracy as the music industry does, we would see the lawsuits fly just as quickly. I think, if people were really afraid of the lawsuits, the music industry could limit piracy just like the software industry has.
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:17am

Re: what a stupid article!
"I'm a music thief. You are a music thief, we simply lack the courage and resolve to buy a gun and physically rob a store. Instead we choose to hide behind a PC safe in the knowledge that we cannot ALL be caught."

Say it with me, copyright infringement is not theft. I get tired of people offering the same flawed arguments. For the love of all that is holey, do some research or speak with a judge. This idiotic notion that people who are being SUED not ARRESTED are thieves needs to stop being perpetuated. Think of it this way, if you dent my car and I sue you for damages, are you a criminal? That is the EXACT concept we are looking at here with the exception that a dent can have a value ascertained (while the value of copyright infringement is very subjective).

I don't download music. Do I think it is morally wrong for others to do so? No. What people have to understand is that morality is in the eye of the beholder and does not equate to law. You may think it's wrong to download music, but that is a morality issue, not a legal one. The law here is that it is illegal to redistribute copyrighted works.
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BillDivX, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:18am

Oh horror!
Honestly, I've never met a musician (myself included) who didn't need a day job just to pay for band equipment anyway. It's pretty difficult, and takes a lot of time, to bring a band from a new act all the way to something that is self sustaining. By spending the last 30 years snapping up any artist that manages a big enough hit to attract a decent audience, and then promoting the living crap out of them until nobody can stand to hear their name, they've not only corrupted their own industry from the inside out, they've spoiled the artist into thinking that if you get one hit song, you've got some kind of free ride.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you want to make money as a band, you're band is a business. You have to approach it like a business. And the best way to kill a business is to quit your day job before the business is even turning enough revenue to comfortably pay your personal bills. Just like in any other business, you can't afford to take a cut until the business is very much self sustaining.

it sucks to see that they've taken all the money they made with that oligopoly that older technology provided them, and used it to not only alienate their own best customers, but to ruin the very mentality of the hardworking band, that made rock such a success in the first place.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:20am

Re:
yah -- 99% of most 'new' music coming out is garbage

so is most of the older stuff

the fact is, only a tiny perctenage of the population is any good at music
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Jones, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:24am

Piracy? How?
If I were to purchase a CD and take it home to listen to it - no crime

If my friend were to come over and sit and listen with me - no crime

If my friend were to dub the cd to a tape or CD-R and take it home - no crime

In fact, if all of my friends were to dub my copy and take it home - no crime

So how then can it be a crime to dub a copy of a legally purchased CD from someone who has SHARED not SOLD but SHARED his copy through a P2P or bittorrent network.

If I were to purchase a CD, take it home, load it on my PC and then call all my friends and charge them some fee to listen and then to dub my copy - THEN A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED called copyright infringement

The P2P and Bittorrent software developers have not committed a crime because their software is free, the people submitting torrents and sharing files have not committed a crime, because they have not charged anyone to access their shared music, I have not committed a crime, because I have not charged anyone to listen to my dubbed copy.

Copyright infringement occurs if and only if you take a copyrighted work and sell it without the permission or license of the copyright owner. If it were copyright infringement for me to buy a cd and let bob, john, sally and sue dub a copy or in fact listen to it. Then each and eveyone of us would be in violation of the law.

Radio stations make money from advertisers who buy commercial time on their stations. They do this because the radio station assures them that they can gaurantee a certain amount of listeners to their station at a given time in the day. How do they do this? Easy, they pay record companies and artists a licensing fee and/or royalty to use their song for the purposes of attracting listeners to their station who are then advertised to. So the radio station is making its money by using the artists' record to promote themselves to advertisers who then in turn pay the radio station.

For the average person this is not the case. I buy a cd for my personal listening enjoyment. As long as I am not using that artists' music to make money, it is not copyright infringement.

By the way... I am an indie musician with 2 cd's on the market and have seen my CD's on several P2P sites and bittorrents..... Doesn't bother me one bit.
I see it as free advertising. Hell, its always been this way. Artists make more money on performing than selling cd's... For example, the rnb group TLC put out an album a few years back that went to #1 on the charts and SOLD over 10 million copies....That's purchased copies not downloaded.

They filed for bankruptcy! Bad business tactics and poor understanding of record contracts did them in, not P2P. End of story!
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:30am

Re: Commercial software
What sector of software do you work in Alex? Just curious, because your logic contains similar flaws to the Microsoft PR people.

I have worked in software for years, and the damage due to infringements is negligible at best. Businesses of any size will not infringe because it isn't worth the risk, this is true, but it is not the only reason we are not as afflicted as the music industry. If someone can afford the software and they desire or require it, then they will buy it. Their first idea is not to steal it for full usage. People will download it to try out, if it is good then they will buy it. The only time this is not true is in the gaming industry. The reason this deviates is because it is under the same conditions as the music industry.

As a whole the entertainment industry has become confused to their relativity in the world. In the last 50 years there has been a huge inflation across the spectrum from movies to music, and they have enjoyed it. Now technology is eliminating the ability for them to maintain it. Think of it like this, imagine if tomorrow we found out that water could be made into oil and it had almost no overhead. What do you think would happen to the oil industry? It's much the same thing. There has been a revolution is mediums, and people are starting to use their wallets to push for a change. No one is saying that they should give music away for free, but they should join the software market in evaluating realistic prices for products.
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Paul, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:31am

Change is inevitable
The business model has been told before, you're obviously not listening when you ask what it is.

It's making money off of merchandise and touring. The music is used as promotion for those items.

If you think people will just stop making music instead of changing to a different model, you're wrong. There will be people who will adapt and change to a new model and become successful.

The analogy to horse-drawn carriages *does* work. It's a new way to get music as opposed to a new way to get from Point A to Point B. Business models will always change with society. If society wants something to go a certain way, it will.

The Government should never artificially help an industry. Tampering with the balance can lead to disastrous results.

Just because someone wants to be able to make enough money to live based solely off of doing something they love DOESN'T mean they should be able to.

Industries change. Deal with it. The consumer will get what they want. Capitalize on what the consumer is doing. Don't try to change it.

The stubborn oak will fall in the flood, while the flexible sapling will survive.
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Sean, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:37am

Re: Piracy? How?
>> If my friend were to dub the cd to a tape or CD-R and take it home - no crime

Uh, read the copyright laws again. This is a crime. The record companies aren't too worried about this because it's actually fairly low volume.

They do worry about P2P because it can be extremely high volume.

S.
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Don Knotts, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:51am

Just a thought, maybe if the record companies i dunno gave the musicians a dollar for every $23 CD instead of a quarter they would be ok, Also I think people still go to concerts weather they buy a cd or download so if you need some cash do a tour unless your afraid people think you suck which may be the real reason your needing a second job.
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TheToe, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:51am

Get Out And Gig
Most musicians don't make a living selling music; they make their living playing live. Sometimes 150-250 gigs a year. Get off your ass and get to work. I work with 3 bands right now as a promoter and each of them plays 3 to 4 nights a week. Two of them don't have day jobs. The music is a marketing tool not a direct means to make money for each of these bands. Making a record is cheap now days. The money is in live gigs and swag (shirts, hats, etc.).
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Apr 2007 @ 9:58am

Wouldn't it be interesting to hear these same music executives that are so worried about their musicians that they actually, *gasp*, return more of the revenue that is gotten to the musicians?

Or at a minimum remove the questionable accounting practices that show how they never quite seem to make any profit off of a cd even after millions of copies have been sold?
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al, 2 Apr 2007 @ 10:04am

Music?
perhaps it is just as well Music is not music anymore it is nothing more or less then tribal drums beating with a chant you can get that for free on any number of public broadcasting stations. and even more to the point as someone that paid thousands of dollars many times for my collection 1. LP 2. Reel to Reel 3. 8 track 4. Cassette 5.CD I am just no longer interested in supporting the industry I have paid and paid and paid for the same music over and over again so now I just listen to the radio and put up with the advertising. I have saved thousands and will continue to and I will bet that there are a lot more of me out there then the music industry has a clue about that is the real loss of revenue.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Apr 2007 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: what a stupid article!
Here Here and love teh way you put it.

There are a few other things they are neglecting to mention, like that MASSIVE cut the record companies take, they don't give a damn about the artist they want their check.

What about the Managers cut, then the fee's, etc..

The people that need to give up the money and give it back to the artists, are those white collar, buisness suit wearing, BMW driving, music execs, that are pulling and no lie at LEAST 6 figures a year... TO DO WHAT!?

They just want to blame as per Orwell's 1984 the free flow of information they don't control. There was a time when you had to have title and land to hear music, it's tilting back into that circle... did Mozart go around with laws in hand demanding money, they where a capitolistic society then too....

but it must be that 14 year old, listening to his I-Pod of the one song he wanted, because teh rest is filler to fill a suit's pockets...
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andy, 2 Apr 2007 @ 10:31am

quote
"all professions are acceptable, except for writing music and making love." - can't remember... think he was russian.

a day job will renew a lot of emotions that many musicians may have forgotten in their cushier lifestyle... will lead to better music.
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Dewy, 2 Apr 2007 @ 10:43am

Re: Sigh.
When you say "Piracy hurts actual people, not just faceless corporations" are you referring to the illegal redistribution of recorded music? Because its not the topic of this discussion, nor is it even considered relevant to the topic of illegal file sharing.

Are you considering the fact that the "faceless corporation" has willingly trod over individuals rights AS WELL AS artists? Perhaps your defense of said Corporation is getting as tired as their assertion that filesharing is killing CD sales. Would you like some facts?

I can't be bothered to reproduce the numbers I have read time and time again, to some degree your required to inform yourself... not jump to accepting the facts that Mike or the industry present you. So just take what I am going to say with a grain of salt, and look it up yourself to verify it... you shouldn't or wouldn't believe me anyway.

But lets look at "CD" sales... Do you believe that they're down from 1997? Because they're not. Factories are working overtime to produce more and more CD's than ever before. Not just the new types developed SINCE 1997 (CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, ect.), but mainly the write once at factory CD. It may contain music, software, (most of them contain spyware deceptively labeled as AOL internet software) but the Music industry wants to deceive you into believing Music sales are in decline... yet say instead CD sales are down.

Or how about the fact they ignore the fact that sometime after 1997 there was a digital media revolution, and EVERYTHING changed... except their approach to delivering music to the consumer. Cell Phones have certainly changed... Video games have changed, phone service and Internet have changed... Computers and music playing devices have changed, Digital Music recorders have changed, Yet they never seem to consider that these might compete for the same dollar. In fact, they seem to point to the consumer "The Problem" and see litigation as a response to a changing marketplace.

Let me try an analogy on you... then I will leave to to search for the truth. If you sell Soft drinks from a beach hut... and everyday you notice the ocean is closer and closer to your hut... and the customers are further and further behind you... your faced with a choice. Either Move your hut... and goto the customers, or litigate your customers to continue to wade out for a soft drink.

The ocean hurts faceless corporations too.
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ehrichweiss, 2 Apr 2007 @ 10:48am

Re: Re: Piracy? How?
"Uh, read the copyright laws again. This is a crime."

Uh, YOU need to read the copyright laws again; it is not a crime. It MIGHT under SOME circumstances(not under most regardless of what you might think) be considered an infringement but it doesn't make you a criminal. Stealing makes you a criminal but copyright infringement has been shown by SCOTUS to not easily equate to theft so drop what you think you know and read some yourself.
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Alex Hagen, 2 Apr 2007 @ 10:54am

Re: Re: Commercial software
"What sector of software do you work in Alex?"

Give that man a cigar. :)

"People will download it to try out, if it is good then they will buy it."

Why? What is their motivation to buy something they already have a copy of, because I don't see this as being true. The people that pirate software don't buy it later for the most part.

"Think of it like this, imagine if tomorrow we found out that water could be made into oil and it had almost no overhead. What do you think would happen to the oil industry?"

It would be destroyed. And no one would care because oil is a commodity and one barrel of oil is the same as another. The same is not true of the music industry, and I fail to see how your analogy fits, care to expand? Destroying the ability for musicians to make money is a far different thing.
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:12am

Re: Re: Re: Commercial software
"Why? What is their motivation to buy something they already have a copy of, because I don't see this as being true. The people that pirate software don't buy it later for the most part."

Actually, the reason most people pirate something is because they can not afford it. Just because someone can't afford to use a product like Dreamweaver or Photoshop does not mean that they have no need of it. By far the majority of downloaded software I have seen/heard about has been in kid high school to college age. They are interested in a field that requires such tools and they want to be able to use the tools the industry uses. So they download the product and use it for a few months or years. When they get done with school, they will go out and buy the products they liked and are use to. It's the entire concept that keeps Microsoft in business. They market to business and education and that way they make sure the next generation has little interest in deviating from their products when they reach employment.

"It would be destroyed. And no one would care because oil is a commodity and one barrel of oil is the same as another. The same is not true of the music industry, and I fail to see how your analogy fits, care to expand? Destroying the ability for musicians to make money is a far different thing."

That is exactly the point. The music INDUSTRY is dying, not the MUSIC. By far the majority of the people playing music in the world are not signed. They do it because they enjoy doing it and if they can make some money at it, all the better. The executives have no place in a digital world under their current model. A lone band can generate publicity over a huge range through use of the web and a shopping cart on a web page. The value of a CD has plummeted due to a lack of interest in the archaic medium, and customers displeasure about being charged for more product then they want.

You have to realize that there is not a line of division between "pirates" and "musicians". Many of the people fighting for downloads and embracing the new technology are making the music, they just don't have as much money to throw around as the current industry.

"Give that man a cigar. :)"

No thanks, I don't smoke. My cars worth too much to smell like an ashtray.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:15am

You guys at techdirt really have no sympathy for those who's content is being stolen. Downloading someone's hard work that is copyrighted is not your god given right, it's illegal.
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West Coaster, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:16am

Re: Re: Whining about Slavery
"Yes, distributing copyright material is illegal. Does this change the fact that the musicians should stop whining and get real jobs?"

In other words, become a wage-slave like me. Yeah, let's support an economy where cubicle hobits keep multiplying and those trying to create an independent existence are the problem. Plug those iPod buds in a little deeper buddy, let's be proud about having meaningless lives.
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Richard Leaf, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:26am

Business model in transition
This a painful era for the record industry and emerging artists that are trying to find a place in the failing big companies. I say failing because that is the way the titans view it. They simply have not adapted to the new avenues of distribution for their product. They were once at the precipice of their own mountain tops but are now struggling to adapt to a much leveler landscape.

They will find that their enforcement battle is a losing strategy and the key to profitability lies in downsizing, talent scouting, artist promotion, and innovative marketing.

Of course, I could be wrong and the smaller contemporary labels could develop their mole hills to rival and even dwarf the old guards dwindling peaks.
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Chad, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Re: Commercial software
Everyone likes to nitpick everyone else's analogies...

The point is, the industry is changing. If they (musician's or anyone who works in the industry) love music, then they will either adapt, or they'll get a day job. Or maybe they'll die for reasons similar to those that species die out when they fail to adapt to a changing world. If they don't love music, then screw them.

The point is that the industry is changing, the CD cash cow is dying if not dead already. Time to get another cow. If I cried a tear for everyone that had to work a "day job" then I would get fired from my own for being unproductive.
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Chronno S. Trigger, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Re: Commercial software
"because I don't see this as being true."

It's not. Most people who pirate software don't purchase it because the software is crap. I don't need to pay $60 for Norton when AVG works better. I wish more people would pirate it so they would know not to get it. (can you tell Symantec has given me problems in the past?)

Lets name the number one most pirated software in history: Microsoft Windows. Every one has a pirated version somewhere in their past. Still Microsoft is the biggest OS company out there. If there was no more pirating then all of a sudden no one would pay $200-$600 for that bloated peace of crap since all the software companies would fallow the money to Linux.

This analogy douse fit but not perfectly. the problem with trying to compare it to anything is that there is nothing like this issue. The software analogy almost fits, the horse drawn carriage vs internal combustion almost fits in another way. The oil vs water, I don't see that one being close. There really isn't anything good enough to describe this issue to the older generation, and that's who it needs to be described to.

So pirate your music and software, test drive your cars. The only way that most people are still in business is because we, the consumer, don't know not to buy there crap. Just make sure to pay for the good stuff.
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anon, 2 Apr 2007 @ 11:43am

praise
awesome article. spot on~ 100%
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NIN fan, 2 Apr 2007 @ 12:12pm

Perfect Example
This Reuters article gives a perfect example of an artist who is actually using the new technology and mediums in an innovative way, instead of being dragged kicking & screaming to the present.

http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0233620220070402?pageNumber=1

(The artist is Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails)
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NIN, 2 Apr 2007 @ 12:14pm

P.S. - Perfect Example
Although note the funny paragraph on Page 2 - the RIAA demanded that websites take down MP3s of songs that were leaked to the public BY THE ARTIST.
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JJ, 2 Apr 2007 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: hogwash
> We notice that Mike is curiously silent on commerical software, even though its business model is the same as the music industry.

You notice incorrectly. Mike has been just as vocal on the software industry:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070226/145058.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/article s/20060523/0314201.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060407/1238229.shtml
http://www.techdi rt.com/articles/20070201/224452.shtml
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Casper, 2 Apr 2007 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Whining about Slavery
"In other words, become a wage-slave like me. Yeah, let's support an economy where cubicle hobits keep multiplying and those trying to create an independent existence are the problem. Plug those iPod buds in a little deeper buddy, let's be proud about having meaningless lives."

Your life is just as meaningless if your making music, except your annoying more people. You might want to be nicer to the "cubical hobbits" since they are the ones paying your welfare checks.
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Sanguine Dream, 2 Apr 2007 @ 12:40pm

Re:
You're right is. But the thing is downloading isn't the only problem the big bad record industry is dealing with. Now that distribution methods are more advanced, its easier to reach a bigger audience (thanks to the net), and most importantly cheaper to get started in the music business small bands don't need the big companies since they can do so much for themselves.

I've started to think that while piracy is a big issue that should be dealt with the RIAA also knows that small acts are just doing their own thing instead of working their butts off for once conveted record contract. Even if piracy is eliminated once and for all the technology is out there to allow new acts to distribute their own music without even batting an eyelash at the RIAA.

They are not only scared because music fans are downloading without paying, they are also scared because the secret is out and small acts know that they don't necessarily need the RIAA to get started in their music career. The middleman has outlived his usefulness
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Jane, 2 Apr 2007 @ 12:50pm

If the music didn't suck...
Release an album worth paying for, and I'll gladly open up my wallet and pay for your music. Until then, I'm sticking with my old favorites, because their music doesn't suck.
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Seth, 4 Apr 2007 @ 12:10am

changes
I don't think there will ever be a complete fallout into an all digital music realm.

There is no real collectability to a list of files on your computer, so you have something, but you don't really have anything. It's a file and it's an empty entity. There's nothing in your hand, there's no artwork or packaging, or tangibleness to the whole deal.

I personally think that the vinyl record will outlive the CD because of it's collectability, audio superiority, and cool factor. Vinyl has been around since before it all, and still getting repressed of classics along with new hits of today.

You can call it technology, but you can also just call people 'cheap skate's' that don't want to invest in music because they don't have to. Wal-Mart America. But they're missing something.
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