If You're Going Around Forcing People To Get RFID Chips, Stay Out Of North Dakota
from the planning-for-all-contingencies dept
North Dakota has joined Wisconsin as the second most paranoid state in the Union by passing a law making it illegal to force somebody to have an RFID chip implanted in them. While it's nice to see the state looking out for its citizens, it's not clear exactly who's going around compelling people to get RFID chips. Just about the only people to have said that some people should be required to have the chips implanted is RFID vendor VeriChip, which said it would be a great idea to put them in migrant workers. But that's probably just because the company can't find enough people who actually want to have one of its chips stuck inside them.
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A sad day...
VeriChip seems to be in the business of FUD.
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Sex Offenders
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060313&s=cottle031706
http://www.rfidjournal.com /forum/message/1455/
http://rfidtimes.blogspot.com/2006/03/can-rfid-control-sex-offenders_27.html
And some people have been talking about doing it to their kids as well. As a way to find them if they are every kidnapped.
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Sure, yeah - for production, tracking, whatever - I guess chips are a good idea.
But for privacy - well, they pretty much do away with it altogether.
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Good for them
Considering it can take a long time to pass and implement legislation, why wait until companies begin requiring it before we discuss it and take action at a state or national level?
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Agree
Now children, good and bad there. Good because of kidnapping, bad because it doesn't help that much because of the limited range of RFID. Honestly, I wouldn't do it, but I could see some parents doing it in a area where kidnappings are more frequent.
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Why not ID yourself?
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Re: Why not ID yourself?
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Re: Why not ID yourself?
with mandatory RFID i can set up a scanner in doorway somewhere and phish for personal info all day long.
plus, a cop or whomever has to have cuase to search you but a hidden scanner can do it with no cause (or warrant) at all.
RFID can't directly impair free speech, but it sure makes it easier to track and detain dissidents.
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Track and detain dissidents?
Phish for what data? "I am Big Al" That's the only data on the RFID. The Phisher could not use that data because it has to be inside him to be authentic! Someone can take your driver's license, crop in a new photo and they're YOU. If someone electronically takes your "I am Big Al" data they have to implant it into their body to be able to use it. You could spot ID theaves by the multiple self surgery scars all over their bodies.
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Re: Track and detain dissidents?
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Re: Re: Track and detain dissidents?
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Re: Why not ID yourself?
You missed the point by a mile. What about someone who you dont need to identify yourself to who gets a reader and now has all the info they want about you?
I dont identify myself to strangers. Especially those with nefarious intent who just saw me put my pin into that auto teller or something like that.
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Re: Why not ID yourself?
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Re: Re: Why not ID yourself?
Chris.
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Re: Why not ID yourself?
Just picture what a savings it would be for employers, purchasing clubs (e.g. Sam's Club), private schools -- anybody that wants to know where you are -- to say that an RFID is a condition of belinging/employment.
How many of those little suckers do you want in your body? For me, zero is the only right answer.
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Being from ND
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Re: Being from ND
Well, I am from Texas and if we truly followed that statement they would never make it out of jail.
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Re: Being from ND
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Wrong purpose
The range of these devices is not good enough to track people, and even if they do create an RFID chip with a larger range how will you be able to tell where the tag is inside that area? The strength of the signal could be used, but it would still be very difficult.
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Just imagine the nightmare that would be the targeted advertising that RFID chips would allow, walking down a street and having billboards and signs shouting your name, giving you advertising based on your medical history. "Feeling down, Chris? Try some Viagra!!"
Loss of privacy, simple things like bill collectors being able to track when you are at home, so they can call/stop by constantly until you pay up. No place to hide.
This should be stopped immediately. In every possible way.
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It's going to happen
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Re: It's going to happen
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Field day
At some point in the future, those low-range readers will be installed everywhere. It will come to the point that you can go nowhere without some reader checking out who you are and telling someone where you are. It will be something like Minority Report where your little RFID chip activates advertisements just for you, except you can be tracked via such technology (similar to cell phone tracking except each tiny little 'tower' would nail down your location that much faster). Of this, I have no doubt.
Suppose that one day our democratic government suddenly evolves into an authoritarian dictatorship, not unlike what happened to the German people in the early 1930's. You might argue that such a thing would never happen again..that the results were so horrendous that people would never allow it to happen. I would argue that history can repeat itself. They were gullible enough to buy into the idea and human beings in 1933 are just as human in 2007. It might take a hundred years or it might take ten years, but the fact of the matter is...the Nazis would have had a FIELD DAY with this kind of technology. The ability to track food shipments, as harmless as it sounds, would potentially flag you as an 'undesireable' (carrying your bag of groceries to feed the Jewish family hiding in your attic...yeah, they'd know you are consuming too much food for a family of four). Everyone's got a chip? Well, they'll eventually find your secret hiding place, just like they did in 1984. Call me paranoid, but everything I've said is completely reasonable. Sure, it's impossible right now, but you can't just think about today...that's how the economy is getting trashed and how Social Security has one leg in the grave.
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Re: Why not ID yourself?
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Never going to happen
I don't support implanting RFID chips in people, but folks...do some research on what the capabilities of RFID are. Gads.
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Re: Never going to happen
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Paranoid
This is NOT going to happen, I went to a conference on it in the UK a few years back, the reason RFID tags (which are great things when used in the right way) have taken off so slowly is because of paranoid thoughts like the ones shown here.
Please, don't listen to the bad press regarding this subject, see this technology for what it is for.
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Re: Paranoid
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Does anyone want that history repeated?
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Re: You never know
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Re: Re: You never know
I really doubt that will ever happen again. That was probably the most unrelated piece of information anyone could possibly say. RFID in people arn't ment to distuinguish you from someone else. unlike the star on Jews during WW2. Think before you post.
Yet.
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RFID
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Re: RFID
"include with that a small charge...that detonates if they get within 100 feet of a school or within 10 feet of a child under 15."
good call. Even though these are horrible people, this would totally keep them from being able to go basically anywhere. Wouldn't be able to drive on certain streets, wouldn't be able to walk down a sidewalk without actively making an effort to run away from every little kid in sight.
i mean, come on, think before you post. even though they're horrible people they do still have rights when they're released from prison or whatnot.
try not to say stupid things.
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Re: RFID
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Fuel to the foil hats.
Now you, too, can track someone using rfid.
By the by-- the entire point of our criminal system is that these badguys are put into prison to be rehabilitated. Once they are done with that, aren't they, again, innocent until proven guilty?
By your reasoning, if you get pulled over for speeding, they should shove a rfid tag into you to make sure your ground speed never exceeds the local limit. Break the law and now you don't get privacy anymore! Take that, founding fathers!
I support the law that prevents these things from being put into people, because there's no telling what some old politican will come up with next to protect the children.
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Re: Fuel to the foil hats.
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Re: Re: Fuel to the foil hats.
If the system says they're good to go, then they are good to go. If the system is wrong, fix it.
I think they should stay in prison until they're safe to be let out. If they're safe to be let out, then they deserve the privacy any of us have the right to.
Maybe you mean for criminals on parole? I can get behind *that*.
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Re: Re: Re: Fuel to the foil hats.
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Re: Re: Re: Fuel to the foil hats.
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Isn't it funny
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...you're toooo late.
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You're Already Chipped
More power = more range.
The technology our millitary-industrial complex posses is farther than any of you are aware.
Take your country back. Cut the millitary's 400 billion dollar budget! Fight the federalist!
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Re: You're Already Chipped
Then, after you've microwaved it, take a drill to your temple (removing foil hat first!) to remove the one in your brain.
This is a public service announcement.
We're all stocked up on crazy here-- go peddle it somewhere else. :)
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Re: You're Already Chipped
I'm sure the French will protect our right to discuss how much freedom we have.
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Re: Re: You're Already Chipped
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It won't be mandetory....but it will happen.
You won't have to get one...you'll be welcome to pay more or wait in long lines or be inconvenienced in other ways.
That's how people will end up getting chipped.
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we have floride added to our water (in the UK), and have to give mandatory medicines to our children
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Felons always have lost certian freedoms even after the term of their incarceration. Felons can't vote. Ever. Felons can't purchase firearms, regardless of the crime. These rights have been perminantly removed.
Why should it be so odd to track sex offenders for life? They've given up their entitlements to act as free citizens. Anyway, it most cases, lifetime registration is agreed to by the offender, at the time of sentencing. At least if they've taken a plea, then it voluntary agreed to whatever post prison stipulations the plea includes.
I hate it when people talk about the infringement of a felon's rights, especially when the felons agreed to the stipulations.
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It's going to be law
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Hmm...
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It Will Happen
The argument that the technology is not there is ridiculous in our day. My first computer had 4K of memory. What's done on computers now would have been "impossible" then. I thought this was a site for tech savvy people. No, playing video games doesn't qualify.
The argument that "it couldn't happen here" is the most frghtening. It IS happening here. The city that my business is in is installing cameras at ALL controlled intersections. The federal government is trying to force states to have "smart" driver licenses NOW. Etc, etc, etc.....
Don't worry though; "they" will continue to allow the masses to have their "games" and favorite beverages.
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Re: It Will Happen
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Re: It Will Happen
So far it's apparent that the fears expressed here stem from lack of knowledge. e.g. the technology used to stem counterfeiting of currency is NOT the same as the RFID chips commonly used in products we buy. The chip potentially used for currency is likely a µ-chip which is the only chip in existance that would work. But, it's read range is 12" or less. It does not support an anticollision so you can't simultaneously read multiple tags and they only perform "reasonably well" with liquids and metal, (The human body is mostly water) and in tests proved they could read chips attached to liquid material up to a staggering 1" - 2" away!!!
Will the technology change? Yup, but as far as tagging human, huge barriers exist with supporting technologies, economics, politics and social hurdles. My advice is don't bet any money humans will be implanted with tags in the next couple hundred years.
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North Dakota is Libertarian
So, the RFID thing makes sense. They like their privacy... and everyone pretty much knows everyone, so IDing sex offenders is pretty easy.
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Freedoms, and Privacy
Anyone who doesn't believe a government will eliminate as many personal freedoms and rights as they can needs to read some history. Our founding fathers knew this, that is why there IS a USA.
This man said it best:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
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666 the number fo the beast
two examples.
in 2000 i got a new military id. it had the gemplus chip on it. inside that chip was all my military records, civilian, dental records, and to sugar it up it also had my wifes and daughters.
did you guys ever see the ibm commercial of the suspecious looking guy in a long black coat entering a supermarket? he goes from lane to lane picking items and putting them inside his coat. he walks out the door of the market to have a laser scan above his head to charge the items he had inside his coat.
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To #50 Anon
"Will the technology change? Yup, but as far as tagging human, huge barriers exist with supporting technologies, economics, politics and social hurdles. My advice is don't bet any money humans will be implanted with tags in the next couple hundred years."
Wake up it's being done already!
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Chip_Implants/index.html
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Be afraid, Be very afraid....
Of?
Consider for a moment that our spy satellites are capable of reading a 2"x2" piece of paper in your pocket. Couple that with facial recognition software and you've got one hell of a human tracking solution. There's also technology that allows our military to see through walls. With some of the graphics software capabilities out there, that SW could be thrown into the mix as well. Wow, now the government can watch us regardless of whether we're outside or in a building.
But...I don't plan on getting ulcers being paranoid/schizophrenic over something like RFID implants that isn't realistic in my lifetime. There's other more immediate threats that are REAL that we need to monitor.
Knowledge, not ignorance is Power.
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Rather than read the religious interpretations and predictions on the website you sited, I went directly to the manufacturers website.
Directly from VeriChip's website:
"Tracking individuals...VeriChip's implantable microchip does not have...built-in Global Positioning System (GPS) support or long-range wireless communications.
These are 2 very expensive, ergo economically impractical technologies that would make requiring each citizen to have one implanted economically infeasible. I would say insurmountable...shall we say it would cost more than our current national debt? Probably not far off.
RFID chips emit a radio transmission with the information contained on the chip. This transmission is SO WEAK because of the extremely small size of RFID that readers have to be within inches and on the outside a few feet of the chip to be able to read it. Boosting the signal sufficiently so it could be read at great distances means increasing the size of the RFID implant to a point where it couldn't be implanted in a human.
Next problem is if you read your website that you referenced, you'll notice that the chip simply "links" an RFID ID number (unique serial number) to a database somewhere that has all the nitty - gritty details on the product (or human) that particular chip is implanted on. In the US, we can't get law enforcement agencies to share data and play nice, how are we going to create a sinister government database on you shared across all government agencies that would be needed to make the implants work? So, assuming the government already has all this great dirt on us cross referenced to our Social Security number, the only benefit RFID would provide is identifying WHERE we are. So, if you're stopped by a cop today, all they need is your SS # or your DL # and they can pull up all of your disgusting private secrets now. Don't need RFID for that. That being the case, what's the real benefit or business case to implant RFID into humans? Hmph...nothing. So why would the government spend something north of the national deficit to implant us with RFID if there's no benefit.
Wake up...there are a lot of threatening technologies out there today. Same paranoia was flourished during the industrial revolution. Somehow everyone survived then. The doomsday predictions never transpired. Trust me on this one, this too will never be more than a paranoid dream.
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First REAL ID REQUIRED/THEN RFID
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Logans Rerun
Oh, and all illegals too, lol
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Mark of the Beast
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nice
North Dakota Treatment Centers
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END OF DAYS
Revelation 14:9-And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Revelation 14:10-The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:11-"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
12/2/09-I am a 33 yr old man. I was 15 when my grandma past away. Some 25 yrs prior to her just recent death, she had made some recordings of a preacher's sermon. My Dad and I listened to the cassette tapes on our 2 hr ride home after gathering things from her now vacant apartment.
The man spoke of a one world government without "cash". Purchases would be made using a card. Only the card holder would know the access code. No need to carry cash and be knocked in the head for it. A cashless society is absolutly possible.
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