Music Industry Continues To Shoot Self In Foot; Forces Pandora To Block Non-US Listeners

from the nice-work dept

Thu, May 3rd 2007 2:11am — Mike Masnick

It's really depressing to watch the recording industry so consistently shoot itself in the foot, focusing on capturing every immediate dollar, rather than recognizing the ability of using music as free promotion to build up the size of their market. The latest case is that Pandora.com, a popular streaming music recommendation service (which is already facing some challenges due to the new webcaster rates) is being forced to block all non-US users of its service. This is because the recording industry wants Pandora to sign separate licensing deals in every country where it has listeners -- a nearly impossible task. Anyone who's used Pandora for more than about five minutes realizes what a great service it is for the entire recording industry. It really does a good job of recommending new music to listeners -- the type of new music that fits in with what they like, and that they're much more likely to support with money. However, rather than recognizing the numerous ways that Pandora can grow their overall market, the recording industry has to shut it down since it won't pay them even more than they're already being paid. This harms the recording industry in numerous ways, and it's amazing they haven't figured that out yet.

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51 Comments

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Nick, 3 May 2007 @ 2:27am

This one really should be a no brainer - I am a (UK based) big fan of Pandora, and have discovered and bought music by many artists I first heard on their service.

That and friends with similar tastes is the only I get to know of new music I like, but these days it's mainly Pandora.

Am I the only person who remembers the days of pluggers, back when music companies pestered and even bribed DJ's to get their products in front of customers via radio?

This really is corporate suicide.
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Angry Rvethead, 3 May 2007 @ 2:44am

Dude!
Should anything the RIAA does really surprise anyone anymore? Sooner or later they need to learn to shut the hell up.
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ReallyEvilCanine, 3 May 2007 @ 3:25am

Proxy
'nuff said.
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antipax, 3 May 2007 @ 3:55am

Digg
http://digg.com/music/Pandora_is_Banning_non_US_Listeners
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JustOneGuy, 3 May 2007 @ 4:19am

Still working in Italy...
I am writing this while listening to Pandora... and I'm in Italy...

I will keep you posted when they actually cut me out.
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Wolfger, 3 May 2007 @ 4:31am

Stupid *and* ignorant
It's stupid to want to cut off foreign listeners, and ignorant to believe it can actually be done. Any technically savvy web surfer knows that a proxy can be used to make your traffic look like it comes from somewhere else, and I'm sure Google will soon fill up with searches for information on how to listen to Pandora from outside the U.S.

Let's just declare the internet an anarchist nation and be done with it, shall we? It's silly to (try to) differentiate between internet users based on geographic location.
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Kelly Goode, 3 May 2007 @ 4:34am

music industry lags behind must find 9thxchange
This article proves once again how far behind the music industry can be. Why is entertainment the only product that a person can't own and re-sell? Do they not understand that the leaders in the industry can continue to make revenue by reselling their content? The 9thxchange does. CEO John Bonaccorso recognized this trend five years ago when he envisioned The 9thxchange marketplace. The 9thxchange offers ANY type of digital piece of content for buy, sell, or re-sell. The 9thXchange marketplace is the newest way to bring together buyers and sellers of digital content. The service dramatically reduces content piracy by offering the seller lifetime royalties—even on exchanges between consumers. Moreover, the service accommodates all technology platforms, file types and creators.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 May 2007 @ 5:03am

I see this as a good thing. Personally I saw rumors that Warner was planning a hostile takeover of EMI in order to stop them from selling DRMless music. Good. The more often and tighter the RIAA and the major labels tighten that noose, the more people will go seek alternative sources of music that actually benefit both the consumers and the artists (and despite what the RIAA and major labels claim, I have more than enough links to refute any and all claims that they are actually out to help/benefit the artists).
eMusic.com
Stage.fm
Hell despite the flak it gets, MySpace too is an excellent source of new music.
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mike allen, 3 May 2007 @ 5:10am

Re: Stupid *and* ignorant
I agree as stupid as RIAA trieing to stop outside the US stations being heard there which i guess will be next as predicted my myself several times and oh yes forcing their extreme charges on stations outside the US As I run a internet station i will gaurentee we wont give in to the B*******
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mike allen, 3 May 2007 @ 5:21am

Re: Dude!
BETTER STILL SHUT DOWN
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Nate, 3 May 2007 @ 5:45am

Don't Just Complain
Don't just complain - help fight the RIAA and their subsidiary groups. Go to SaveNetRadio and see how.
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Matt, 3 May 2007 @ 6:09am

Pandora changed a lot about how I view the music industry. For instance, I no longer download as much illegal music and in general I have a better sense of the artist (they, obviously being the ones allowing their music to be "advertised"). Bad move RIAA or whoever you are....
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ogman, 3 May 2007 @ 6:21am

The RIAA Must Be Stopped
I've started writing to all artists whose music I do not buy because of their membership in the RIAA. I simply tell them that they will not get my money as long as they are a member of this destructive organization.

This site makes it easy to find out if an artist is a member: http://www.riaaradar.com/
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Steve Rogers, 3 May 2007 @ 6:27am

same
If you are Non-USA you can not subscribe to Rhapsody/Yahoo/Napster etc. streaming service. These guys are true MBA calibre!
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Chaucer Wells, 3 May 2007 @ 6:28am

Move the servers, already
I am hoping that innovative music streaming services such as Pandora will relocate their servers outside the states rather than continue to be harassed by a mobster-type system that is clearly intent on putting them out of business. Move someplace where the RIAA and its friends do not have any legal jurisdiction. Granted, the long-term solution is to drastically scale back the power granted under our copyright law, but is going to take years for the legislative process to reel in the monster that they have created (who in their right mind thinks that corporations should still have chokehold on artistic material created four generations ago?)
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Anonymous Coward, 3 May 2007 @ 6:47am

It's a dirty rotten shame. When are these guys going to grow up ?
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DeTOX, 3 May 2007 @ 6:53am

Proxy
Find a US proxy that is free and you should still be able to login to pandora.com. It is worth a try.
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Sanguine Dream, 3 May 2007 @ 7:00am

So what's next?
I've been saying for months that the RIAA had (and could still have) the perfect opportunity to take the lead in digital distribution. But instead they went for total control. They ultimately want to have absolute control over all music, even when they had nothing to do with the production, marketing, or selling of it.

They are constantly lobbying to get custom made laws and have managed to influence the government to put anti-piracy pressure on countries that don't acknowledge/enforce US copyright laws.

I suppose the next thing will be a law that states that any indie/garage/small time bands will have to pay royalties to the RIAA for the previlage to create/play their own original music. "So what if you haven't played anything larger then a high school talent show. F*ck you pay us. The songs you played were your orginal creations? F*ck you pay us."
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Darryl, 3 May 2007 @ 7:05am

Stupidity
I am a fan of Pandora. I am in N.Ireland which is still considered part of the UK. So I guess they will now be forced to block me. I have found and purchased interesting music directly from Pandora. What a stupid, stupid thing to do.
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RIAA HATER, 3 May 2007 @ 7:10am

WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS? WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?WTF WHOS GONNA STOP THESE NIGGERS?
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RIAA HATER, 3 May 2007 @ 7:11am

Sorry for last comment but seriuosly this shit has got to end...
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mike allen, 3 May 2007 @ 7:13am

Pandora
pandora have comfirmed that the article is true and the time to impliment the order is unknown I have just spoke with them on the phone.
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Dosquatch, 3 May 2007 @ 7:19am

Re: music industry lags behind must find 9thxchang
Ooohhh, sorry. Carpet-bombing a marketoid piece in the middle of a tech weenie discussion thread is worth about neg1,000,000,000 to your score... you don't even win the crappy home game. In fact, your score is low enough you owe us the crappy home game. Thanks for playing, though, do come again.

That said, I do actually want to take issue with one particular element of your advertisement:

Why is entertainment the only product that a person can't own and re-sell? Do they not understand that the leaders in the industry can continue to make revenue by reselling their content? [...] The service dramatically reduces content piracy by offering the seller lifetime royalties—even on exchanges between consumers.

Or, rather, several issues at once. The fact of the matter is, I can resell CD's and DVD's, and the market for used material is doing quite well. One might even say "thriving". And I see no reason for an author/director/singer/producer/whathaveyou to make *ahem* "lifetime royalties on exchanges between consumers" off of this business. Sony makes no further profit should I resell my DVD player. HP makes no further profit should I resell my computer. In fact, neither does Microsoft even though my copy of Windows goes along with the machine. Oh, noes!

And there is no causitive chain of events that you can show to substantiate your statement that offering such lifetime royalties will have any effect on the levels of piracy. In fact, I'd much more expect a negative correlation there than a positive one.
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Joshua, 3 May 2007 @ 7:46am

Korea
I'm a big music fan, but have been using Rhapsody for the past 8 months I've been in Korea. Like Pandora, it is officially only for US use. However, I've had only minor disruptions using the service. I didn't know about pandora until I read this article. Its working fine though. It does have a notice that its only available to US listeners, but apparently not checking IP addresses.
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Joe Schmoe, 3 May 2007 @ 7:58am

"It's a dirty rotten shame. When are these guys going to grow up?"

meh? That's actually the problem. They are grown. Old...

It's long past time for them to die.
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HotGarbage, 3 May 2007 @ 8:22am

Tree of liberty etc etc
I would like to see the bottom fall out of the music industry. I do enjoy music quite a bit. I am a musician myself. I feel that the RIAA is far out of control and needs to be put in its place. The only way to do that is with a concentrated effort to bankrupt it. If you have a problem with the way you are being treated by the RIAA then do something about it. What the company is doing is not necessarily illegal, but like any business it is attempting to protect its profit margins. It is doing so by forcing you to do business on ITS terms, not yours. The fact of the matter is that while the customer may not always be right, they are still the customer and have the right to spend their money any way they see fit. I think it is time for the people to demand better treatment from this company. Make the company do business on their terms or not at all. What are you willing to do about it? If the answer is nothing then you deserve what you get.
~~~~~~~~~~
Decaffeinated coffee is kinda like kissing your sister.
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kosso, 3 May 2007 @ 8:27am

Dinosaurs
This reminds me of this funny tale about old media 'vs' new media ;)

http://ricksegal.typepad.com/pmv/2007/04/fun_with_the_di.html

but to be honest, I'm amazed how Pandora get away with playing all those tracks into my cache.
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bodiby (profile), 3 May 2007 @ 9:02am

Streaming Radio based outside US
Is there a Pandora like service based outside the US? That can be easily accessed within the US?
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Gene_Leone_Mix, 3 May 2007 @ 9:08am

Pandora Told To Shut Down ...???
Tim and the Crew at Pandora!

And so here it begins... I am stunned at the blatant ignorance of such a "communist" commandment now leveled against Pandora in a supposedly free society. This is not about MUSIC, this is not about QUALITY, this is not about LEVEL PLAYING fields for ALL in MUSIC as was promised to ALL of us by our US Congress.

THIS IS ABOUT POWER AND GREED!!!

The Majority of our "leaders" in CONGRESS have turned their backs on the honest, fair, tax paying small business owners trying to survive in the "music" industry.

What has happened to America????

Clueless non-leadership being led by the choker leash by Big Label Money.

THIS IS ABOUT POWER CONTROL AND GREED!!!

Obviously, they are begging here for a massive RIAA boycott, and a "peoples" revolution to rise up and make noise against all of this.... WHY?

Why Why Why? WHAT's THE BIG PICTURE here...

Music doesn't really matter here to "RIAA=SoundExchange"... Music is the smoke screen and mirrors...
THIS IS ONLY THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG OF WHAT THEY REALLY WANT!

Tim,
Hang in there, You and PANDORA obviously have all of OUR support in this battle.
Gene

~ MUSIC INDIES UNITE! ~ Save Indie Internet Radio! ~
CALL CONGRESS and LET THEM HEAR OUR VOICE!~

http://www.myspace.com/gene_leone_mix
http://blog.myspace.com/gene_leone_mix
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Gorilla1, 3 May 2007 @ 9:19am

Don't moan, mobilize!
Another negative aspect of this is going to be "false negatives". Pinning down geographic location based on IP address is certainly not 100% accurate. Which not only means some people outside the US will still be able to listen, but some within the US will be blocked. Pandora should be fighting this issue and win, based solely on this fact.

And just for those of you who might want to take action, there is a "hotline" run by the RIAA/MPAA for reporting violations. The phone number is 800-223-2328 (toll free). I am proposing a sort of "denial of service attack". Flood this number with your complaints instead.

If something isn't done, I'm sure I will be getting a call from them one of these days telling me how much I owe for playing covers of other peoples songs on my web site.
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Mitch the Bitch, 3 May 2007 @ 9:44am

Re: Stupid *and* ignorant
Wow what a perfect subject line Wolfger.

Being a vet Ive seen chaos, and trust me, some pony-tailed pansy sitting in mommies basement in front of his PC is ill-prepared for *real* chaos. This despite the current romantisism of "chaos" that the lunatic left and it media minions currently portray on the daily newscast. To believe different is plain ignorant and history is my proof. Do you have any proof that chaos works or is in any way shape or form good for civilization? Thought not.
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Randall, 3 May 2007 @ 9:54am

This is hardly a "recording industry" only phenomenon.

The ASCAP Experimental License Agreement for Webcasters also contains a clause that specifically prohibits licensed services from transmitting music programming outside of the United States and its territories.

While ASCAP doesn't enforce its license agreements to the same degree as say, Phonographic Performance Limited, that does not give services permission to violate the terms.

Due diligence is the backbone of a legitimate business.
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Bob Dole, 3 May 2007 @ 10:05am

Dumb Greedy Bastards
This is exactly the reason I don't buy music legally. Cock suckin bastards trying to get damn dollar they can get. Well they just pushed me over the edge, and I will be certain to get and provide music free to everyone!
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dropacid, 3 May 2007 @ 10:12am

Record Labels don't work when free promotion is su
Musicians only need record companies for the following:
1. Studio Time = $$$
2. Marketing = $$$
3. Make the CDS = $$$

Now, musicians easily do the following:
1. Record Music on their computers
2. Market their own music via the net and touring
3. Cds(tangible audio products) are dead

So, the only thing we need a record label for is to front the money for huge arena rock tours, with huge catering bills....rock on, dude, get out the lighters (ohhh wait it is cell phones now)
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Jack Sparrow, 3 May 2007 @ 12:01pm

Hi Mates!!!
And you mates call me pirate???

These guys at RIAA are the real pirates - corporate pirates!

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Wake Up human kind... before become to late...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 May 2007 @ 12:50pm

Download the song and then send the artist a money order.
Call it DSAMO. Deal direct with the artist. Screw the RIAA. Up with DSAMO !!!!!!!
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syzygy (profile), 3 May 2007 @ 2:18pm

Re: Streaming Radio based outside US
The service that I use, Last.fm is available in the USA despite being based in the UK. I've used both last.fm and Pandora, and I like last.fm better. Its unfortunate to see the RIAA kill off great services, but I don't expect them to stop anytime soon.
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gergo, 4 May 2007 @ 1:59am

Good move by RIAA
I think it's a good idea to cut off non-us listeners. In fact, people outside the US shouldn't be allowed to listen to music at all! Even self made amateur "music" like whistling or humming should be banned. If people outside the US want to listen to the humming of others, they should pay! I suggest weekly fee of something like $200. And dont forget that the hummers themselves have to pay as well: they hear their own humming don't they?
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Nick, 4 May 2007 @ 2:15am

Use the crap patent system to shut down the RIAA?
Hey, if all of us submitted patent applications for notes and chords, some would surely get through, then we could charge the RIAA for using our intellectual property. Basgy B Flat for me!
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Nick, 4 May 2007 @ 2:21am

Well, if the RIAA suceed in nobbling Pandora the next step is blindingly obvious...

I'm sure that one of the many Russian Mp3 sites, and I am aware of over 80 thanks to this list: www.squidoo.com/russianmp3sites/

will step into the breach and start providing an equivalent service with direct links to their much cheaper download services. And RIAA members will be even worse off than before.

The biggest wonder is that the RIAA haven't run out of feet to shoot themselves in...

Nick
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Zagarat, 4 May 2007 @ 8:08am

Re:
I think Matt is absolutely right. I have spent too much time looking for music I might like. The thing about Pandora is that I don't NEED to download music--I'd rather NOT spend time downloading crap that turns out to be terrible. It's better than the music kiosks at record stores.
The music companies should be encouraging Pandora. The idiots.
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Hans, 12 Jan 2008 @ 3:09am

www.globalpandora.com for outside Amerika
Helo

I think you still have alternative named www.globalpandora.com who stream musik to Germany. Pandora is the same but for Amerika only.

Regarts

Hans
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Michael Asoke, 13 Jan 2008 @ 2:20pm

Easy Cure for Pandora IP Block
If you have just found that your IP is banned since you are not in the USA, get a VPN account at http://www.strongvpn.com I was blocked, got the account.. connected with no degradation in speed... and was in business again! It's a great solution.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2009 @ 10:21am

Just found an alternative: AOMproxy.com
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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Unblock Everything
With anonymous http://www.supervpn.net/ account you can bypass with your PC or mobile all blocked web sites, watch TV online or listen radio and use Skype if it is blocked in your region.
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I am also using http://www.supervpn.net/ and I am very satisfied with their services.
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Jason, 6 Dec 2011 @ 10:58am

These are the same licensing regulations that prohibit HULU to stream outside the US. I always use http://www.sunvpn.com/ to get past the blocks. Works well for HULU, Pandora, ABC, CBS etc.

Here`s a video on how to do it for HULU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAaUvEfGg1k
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VPN for Business, 13 Aug 2013 @ 4:33am

There are loads to VPN providers to choose from to get around the blocks, just pick one and voila!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
dinaafifi, 29 Oct 2013 @ 12:47pm

I'm in England using a US VPN to access Hulu. Here you can get VPN provider https://www.waselpro.com/en/
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