Violent Crimes Keep Dropping As Violent Video Games Get More Popular

from the correlations dept

Tue, Jun 26th 2007 6:39am — Mike Masnick

A few years back, we posted some research someone had done noting that youth violence had decreased drastically over the years as violent video games became more popular. Now Digg is highlighting a similar, and rather dramatic, drop in overall violent crime during the period since 1993 (when the video game Doom was released). Obviously, this is a correlation, not proving any kind of causal linkage. However, if it were true that these video games were convincing people to go out and commit actual crimes, it would be hard to bring that into line with this data. Combined with recent studies that have shown that violent crime decreases when violent movies are released, it certainly suggests that the "threat" of such movies and video games aren't as big as some would have you believe.

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dorpus, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:00am

The real reason
Criminologists agree that longer prison sentences and the aging of the population account for the long-term decline. However, the US violent crime rate has been rising for the past few years.

The young black men and trailer-park whites who commit the majority of violent crimes are not influenced by video games or movies, since they cannot afford either of them. A more consistent association is seen with the rise and fall of drug epidemics; crack cocaine peaked in the 1980s, and now methamphetamine is fuelling a smaller crime wave.
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Tack, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:02am

I'm proof
I'm a 20 year old guy and I work in a law office. It's not a very physically taxing job, but mentally, it's very stressful. I prefer playing games like Command & Conquer and StarCraft, but when I get mad at the world and just wanna throw something at the wall, yanno what I do? I play a few games of UT in "god mode" and suddenly, 15 minutes later my stress level drops dramatically. There's just something about shooting characters in a game that satisfies the urge I get to hurt something in real life without actually damaging anything (except the occaisional "primary fire" button). In truth, I'm just as capable of not throwing something at the wall as the guy without a FPS, but the difference is that after I work 2 weeks on a several thousand dollar case and we lose, I'm not the one on the courthouse steps with a gun - I'm in UT with a plasma rifle. Essentially, for people who prefer beating the snot out of something to relieve stress, video games provide a non-violent-yet-voilent alternative to damaging a real life object.

That said, today is going well, so I'm sticking to my MCVs and Dragon Tanks for now.
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Wisconsingod, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:03am

Take a look at human nature
I'm no expert, but I would see that this is a somewhat valid correlation. Humans are first and foremost animals. We have instincts, we are a beast who tends to go with the Fight rather than Flight response. Instinctively, we compete, do battles, etc. Violent Movies and Video Games are an Outlet for 99% of their viewers/users. We all have the urge to take a baseball bat to someone's head at some point. If we can do it in a video game, or watch it happen, it satisfies those urges on a level strong enough to keep most of us from being violent in real life.

However there is the 1% of mentally disturbed people who take these forms of entertainment and turn them into tools and guides for life.

I wonder if they did a study....take every player of doom & GTA, take away their games and give them a Bible to read. I believe that 99% of the people would not commit any crimes, but 1% would then begin to stone people and nail them up on crosses.

If the same crime rates exist with the introduction of video games as did with the introduction of Bibles, would we blame the Bibles for the violence?

**Disclaimer**
I am in no way bashing anything about the Bible, I am only using it as a reference as what is accepted in today's society and the Oxymoronic actions of our govenrment officials.
**END**
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Casper, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:06am

Re: The real reason
Criminologists agree that longer prison sentences and the aging of the population account for the long-term decline. However, the US violent crime rate has been rising for the past few years.

The young black men and trailer-park whites who commit the majority of violent crimes are not influenced by video games or movies, since they cannot afford either of them. A more consistent association is seen with the rise and fall of drug epidemics; crack cocaine peaked in the 1980s, and now methamphetamine is fuelling a smaller crime wave.

Oh my god, I think hell froze over... I agree with dorpus.

Most violent crime we see today stems from one of three things: drugs, gangs, poverty. I forget the exact number, but something like 80% of all property crime in Oregon stems from methamphetamine. By far meth is the most destructive influence at the moment, followed close second by gangs.

Do people think meth heads and gang members do training raids in Duke Nukem before they attack someone?
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DCX2, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:15am

Re: Re: The real reason
Oh my god, I think hell froze over... I agree with dorpus.

...weird. I agree with him, too.

Satan must be pretty cold right now.
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AgaricX, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:28am

Re: Take a look at human nature
I don't know, I think that statistic is low. Number one, I seriously don't that giving masses the Bible would alleviate 99% of violent crime. If we gave everyone a Bible, probably at least 5% would start stoning people who circumvent the Bible's 'morality'. How many violent incidences have there been in recent years (albeit less than decades past) that stem from one's belief in the God of the Bible? The KKK uses the Bible as a recruitment tool for goodness sake. Case in point: homosexuals, abortionists, protestant vs catholic even. I firmly believe that despite Jesus's overall message of unconditional love, evidence I have seen in modern Christianity is that they prefer to hold onto Old Testament divisionist ideas that propagate bigotry and intolerance.

I as well am not defaming Christainity, whose central dogma is loving and productive. However, the sheer number of individuals who fall on their sword over specific outdated ideals and feel there is no leeway are dangerous... not because of the message put forth in the Bible, but because of their personal mental limits. The weak minded and uninformed are much more opt to resort to violence regardless of their influences... which is pretty much your point as well, Wisconsingod.
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Bignumone, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:31am

Crime and video games
Those are some good points.
I have heard people many times comment about how violence in video games helps them "vent" at something not real. I would love to see studies supporting that.
I tend to believe that any significant drop or rise in violent crime has more to do with bigger societal issues and less to do with GTA or Doom.
That is not to say that there will be isolated instances of people mimicking what they see in those games.
Seriously, wouldn't it be pretty scary to run into some kid on goof-balls acting out in a car what was seen in GTA? It is a pretty horrible thought if it does really happen.
We need to at least see if it is possible.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2007 @ 7:55am

I aggree with Tack. I am a 25 yr old analyst at a large investment firm. Long hours and high lvls of stress to deal with every day. Going home and throwing in some Halo 2, or Crackdown definitely brings my stress levels down. WoW also helps because its basically a brain-dead game, so I don't really have to concentrate on anything to play.
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Mike, 26 Jun 2007 @ 8:23am

Re: Take a look at human nature
I would bet that the "bible group" would befar more violent than you predict, and go out and torture people until they admit to made up sins, and then force their beliefs on the rest of the world, banning activities on Sundays, twisting an entire country's view on sex until its more of a crime than violence... oh wait ...
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2007 @ 8:27am

I have to admit that sometimes after a aggrevating day at work (I'm work in the IT department of a bank) I go home and play video games. Halo 2, Street Fighter, Rival Schools are when I want some mindless violence and don't feel like thinking. I'll pull out an rpg like Final Fantasy or Pokemon when I actually need to get my mind off of a current situation.

Thing is all crime rates are going to rise and fall over time. What causes it is anyone guess.
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Sam, 26 Jun 2007 @ 8:34am

Drop in crime v. Legalization of Abortion
I suggest you all read Freakenomics. The book poses a rather convincing argument that the fifteen year long decline in violent crime can be directly traced to the legalization of Abortion following the Roe v. Wade decision. Just as those babies who would have otherwise been born into situations where their parent(s) didn't want them, and thus presumably situations more conducive to a life of crime, we are instead left with an absence of unwanted children. Pregnancies can be unwanted for a lot of reasons, obviously, but a significant portion of the time those reasons they are unwanted are the same reasons why the kids, had they been born, would turn to crime. This is obviously a very politically incorrect argument, and even the author is quick to point out how abortion is a terrible ineffective and costly 'crime fighter', but nevertheless, he argues the causal connection exists. So while I used to put some stock in the video games reduces crime theory, I don't think it holds much water in the face of a much simpler and more logical explanation.
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chris (profile), 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:14am

Re: Re: The real reason
Do people think meth heads and gang members do training raids in Duke Nukem before they attack someone?

that's preposterous! jack thompson clearly demonstrated that they use grand theft auto.
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Dosquatch, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:24am

Re: The real reason
This is... a clearly written, coherent, rational, well-reasoned, on-topic post... that actually states a valid and agreeable point...

Who are you, and what have you done with the real dorpus?
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John B, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:32am

Points
I see a lot of good points being made here. Freakenomics is a great read and does point out some possible causal links between unwanted children (pre-Roe vs. Wade) and higher crime rates. Addictive illegal drugs are another strong cause of violent crime as people shoot each other over bad drug deals (what are you gonna do, take the crackhead to court?). I managed a pizza delivery place in DC in 1989-90 and it was a MUCH more dangerous place then, and from what I saw, a LOT of it had to do with crack cocaine. BTW: I think that if these drugs were legalized, much of this violent crime would go away, since there would be other ways to enforce buy/sell contracts.

I have absolutely no problem with games like Doom (love it!) or some others with at least a moral/ethical "excuse" for the bloodletting. I mean, who could fault you for shooting demons? GTA is something of a different story, IMHO. It glamorizes stealing and killing innocents and cops. I think that's a bad role model. I work with some inner city kids and I can tell you that there are some who take the GTA lifestyle as an exciting alternative to working at Mickey D's. And, despite what dorpus said, many of these poor kids actually do have playstations, etc. as an alternative to a car, a nice stereo, a good computer, etc. and they spend immense amounts of time playing games on them. In those cases, I do think that the percentage of GTA players that get "inspired" by the game is significantly higher than 1%. The solution of course is not outlawing GTA, but providing better education and better jobs, but that takes hard, long-term decision-making, something I have not come to expect of our governments.

The one thing which is implicit here but has not been explicitly pointed out is that it is "good" "news" to link some heinous crime or crime spree with a popular but disturbing video game like GTA or Doom. The 95% or 99% (who knows?) of people who use these games to blow off steam instead of blowing off their boss's head (or yelling their head off at their spouse, etc.) is not a good news story, since there's no excitement/fear/dread factor. So, of course, it won't be reported. Given how much BS people see on TV and believe, you know what happens next...
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tom, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:37am

Re: The real reason
Its not just whites and blacks! It is all the races that live in the US. If you live in Arizona you would say the majority of crime is committed by Hispanics. I’m not saying one race or the other is worse than the next. Just wanted to clear that up.
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megatron, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:38am

Re: The real reason
"The young black men and trailer-park whites who commit the majority of violent crimes"

I don't agree with dorpus's comment which assumes that all young blacks commit crimes as oppose to only "trailer-park" or poor whites. The common denominator here is poverty, so a more accurate statement would probably be "young underprivileged men commit the majority of violent crimes." And that statement I do agree with. But I do believe dorpus is correct in saying "A more consistent association is seen with the rise and fall of drug epidemics." For some reason people seem to want to minimize the effect drugs have on the crime rate by pointing the finger on violent games and movies. In my opinion crime rates are dropping because we're just getting out of this crack-cocaine haze we've been in for the last 2 to 3 decades.

But I don't think that the author of the article is necessarily saying that the raise in violent video games is the reason for the drop in crime. What the article seems to be doing more then anything is discrediting the ridiculous idea that violent video games and movies contribute to the increase in violent crimes by showing that a correlation exists between violent games and movies and a decrease in the crime rate.
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Casper, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:50am

Re: Points
I think that if these drugs were legalized, much of this violent crime would go away, since there would be other ways to enforce buy/sell contracts.

Well, you were on a roll... then you made that statement. Drugs are not the source of the problem because they are expensive. They are the source of the problem because they are not free. The addicts that steal for their fix do not have jobs that pay enough to buy real food, let along legalized versions of their drug of choice.

Don't forget, this has been tried in the past by both the Dutch and the Swiss. This is a brief description of the Swiss experiment:

Tolerant drug policies in Switzerland have resulted in an influx of drug users. In 1987, the Swiss Government permitted drug use and sales in a part of Zurich called Platzspitz, or “Needle Park.” By 1992, over 20,000 drug users congregated in the park, and the surrounding areas were overrun with crime. The park has been shut down and the experiment has been terminated.

This was the source of that snippet.
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Overcast, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:55am

GTA is something of a different story, IMHO. It glamorizes stealing and killing innocents and cops. I think that's a bad role model. I work with some inner city kids and I can tell you that there are some who take the GTA lifestyle as an exciting alternative to working at Mickey D's

Remember; however, GTA was fashioned off of a situation that ALREADY existed prior to GTA ever being developed.

The problem existed long before GTA did...

And actually - someone I know has severe Alcohol and Drug issues, along with that 'Gang-Bangers are cool' mentality.

I'm sure he's played GTA - but by and large he seems to get into that the most after listening to all the music that glorifies it. He's tried to 'glamorize' that life and GTA didn't have a thing to do with that. I can't say I blame the music either though - really, it's no one's fault but his own. He knows better, just chooses to ignore it.

But I agree with you 100% - education is the key. Any sane person realizes that GTA is simply a game.

And really - TV news likely is more depressing than anything - all the dwell on is crime, hate, and greed..

Basically, with drugs being illegal like they are now, this is simply the prohibition of the 20's/30's all over again. Just instead of the organized mobsters, it's a lot of smaller, less organized gangs. But I'm sure - 'above' the level of the street thugs, the dealers are well organized - it's just the guys in the streets that are the pawns. In the end, GTA just glamorizes this situation like 'the Godfather' or Sopranos glamorizes mob violence - if GTA's 'evil' then these 'mob' shows are every bit as harmful.
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Avinash, 26 Jun 2007 @ 9:57am

I wrote the original post
Thanks to all of you who read this. My point for the most part wasn't entirely put across to most people--the title on Digg was almost entirely Diggbait (it was the most interesting statistic I pulled from the article). I was trying to make the point that video games don't account for a rise in violence, as stated by J.T., rather, I was trying to point out the fact that the correlation is probably not causal. That I think video games play a role is completely irrelevant.
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gary, 26 Jun 2007 @ 10:10am

The bible...
I love reading posts where people try to slam on christianity because of things people in the past have done. For example, Stoning people, Killing jesus etc. Lets not forget, Jesus allowed himself to be hung. He knew full well going into it that he was going to die on a cross.
He died to take your place and was seperated from God in every aspect, so that those who put their trust in him would never have to experience that. The difference was he was brought back to life! If we die, we do not have that power to raise ourselves. We die in our sins.

In the past its true, people have done alot of stupid things in their ignorant understand of the bible and their interpretations. Does that make the scriptures invalid? Nope! Nor does it mean we should ignore everything and just pretend we don't see the bad around us and do nothing.
The bottom line is, in the end it is not I who will be judging, but the one i serve will be and he is the one who has laid down what the rules are. It would be like someone going into a court room and getting mad at a judge because they ran a stop sign and then tried to argue that they didn't see the sign. The sign was there all along, the fact that you didn't see it doesn't make you exempt from the punishment of running it. But then all of a sudden someone comes in and says "i'll pay their fine". Well, thats what Jesus did for you and i. Will you let him pay your fine? Or try to pay for it yourself?
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Alferd, 26 Jun 2007 @ 10:32am

Re: Drop in crime v. Legalization of Abortion
Thanks for saving me the trouble or writing this post myself.
Hard to beat less criminals = less crime.
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jake levine, 26 Jun 2007 @ 10:33am

maybe that's because...
...the movies and games act as a release for something primal inside most of us. i think alan watts labeled it the most accurately as "irreducible rascality." if you find a legal and acceptable vent for that, maybe there's less of a need to commit the actual act?
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Elohssa, 26 Jun 2007 @ 10:41am

My two cents.
Of course meth is a dangerous drug that ruins many lives. That said, I think the great cause for the rise of meth is our (U.S) misguided attempts at stamping out recreational drug use. Had we never prohibited amphetamine produced by regulated industries, there would be no need to produce "bathtub" variants with little to no safety control or regard for effect.

Remember, in the 50s, housewives were marketed are sorted of speed, and we all remember the great "Housewife Massacre" of 1957, right?

I don't think we're arguing, I'm just sticking my point in. Drug prohibition does not work, and costs far more than it saves. We should stop it.
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Sanguine Dream, 26 Jun 2007 @ 10:45am

Re: The bible...
From what I got out of his comment he was pointing out one example of many. I wonder if you would made that post if she/he had talked about Islam/Quoran(sp?) instead of Christianity/Bible.

Yes people have done stupid things in the past because of their ignorant understanding of whatever religious text they choose to follow. Does that mean we should let them do what they want becuase their holy book of choice said so? Of course not. And make a correction stupid choices related to religion are not limited to the past. Abortion clinic bombings, the centuries of war in Middle East, and even the recent "War on Terror." Yesh some of those "terrorists" are compelled by religion to do what they do.

So please do not try to turn AgaricX's comment into holy war bait.
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mc, 26 Jun 2007 @ 11:52am

honestly, I enjoy playing my gta because I get to do thing I can't do in real life because you go to jail if you do period.. and there a lot cop around here where I live swear there are bad asses so I pop in my gta start fucking them up. so basically violent game allow us to do stuff we can't do in real, because we all know what are the consequence, except some people aren't afraid doing some jail and got real balls go up to cop just knock the shit out of them or kill, blow up stuff etc..
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Bed Sheet Ghost, 26 Jun 2007 @ 12:11pm

Re: Re: Points
"Well, you were on a roll... then you made that statement. Drugs are not the source of the problem because they are expensive. They are the source of the problem because they are not free. The addicts that steal for their fix do not have jobs that pay enough to buy real food, let along legalized versions of their drug of choice."

But once someone has already taken into their habit to break the law by producing more and more laws that control peoples lives they are willing to break other laws. In essence as the relation to the law and the morality that it once represented weakens it is easier to justify breaking the laws.

"Tolerant drug policies in Switzerland have resulted in an influx of drug users. In 1987, the Swiss Government permitted drug use and sales in a part of Zurich called Platzspitz, or “Needle Park.” By 1992, over 20,000 drug users congregated in the park, and the surrounding areas were overrun with crime. The park has been shut down and the experiment has been terminated."

When one area has more tolerance for a specific group of people than another area it is natural for the people of that group to migrate there. If you take all the crime in a city and put it in one block that block has alot of crime.
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Chronno S. Trigger, 26 Jun 2007 @ 1:35pm

Re: The bible...
I take it that you never read the bible. Christians didn't kill Jesus, the Jews did. and you make it sound like Jesus went to hell after being crucified (not hung) he didn't. He rose up and joined with god in heaven.

If you do read the bible some day, you will see that it has more controversial situations in it than any game I have ever played or any movie that I have ever seen (excluding AO games and XXX movies.)

I guess you're a little misinformed about your religion.
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MrES73, 26 Jun 2007 @ 4:59pm

What about Parenting?
Admittedly, I have not read through every single post to this article, so I cannot say for sure if this has/hasn't been mentioned...but I think that parenting plays a strong role in the development of children. It seems to me that good parenting is responsible for at least 50% of how a child turns out. Other factors such as environment and genetic make-up (and other things I'm sure) account for the rest. My point is, let's not forget about one of the most obvious factors in determining violent behavior of children. The correlation between virtual violence and real has merit, but I don't agree that there is a causal relationship between increased video game violence and less real violence. The proof, large part, is in the parenting.
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Dhee, 27 Jun 2007 @ 8:12am

Re: The bible...
The sign was there all along, the fact that you didn't see it doesn't make you exempt from the punishment of running it. But then all of a sudden someone comes in and says "i'll pay their fine". Well, thats what Jesus did for you and i. Will you let him pay your fine? Or try to pay for it yourself?

Pay for it myself. I work currently as a Support Assitant in a homeless hostel, and one thing we try to impart to our clients is the act of taking responsibility for ones actions. I don't need someone else to give me a 'get out of jail free' card, I need to make sure that I am a good person from word go.

I personally have a great dislike for GTA and similar games (though if one is blowing up monsters or demons, not so much), and I used to think that yes, it can certainly influence the impressionable and the very young. But then again, that is not the only bad influence that exists.

The idea that these games could actually be preventative rather than causative had never occurred to me, but it makes a lot of sense. Context is the important thing, shooting pieces of machine code or pixels is far more acceptable than shooting people. I'm going to wind my neck in now, and not criticise these games so much. As I think another poster said, man has an instinctively agressive nature as part of his survival program, those urges/desires/reactions need to channeled somewhere.
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Ansia, 17 Aug 2007 @ 8:02am

No violent games/movies != No violence in real wor
I think violent games and movies can be useful to some people for expressing their aggressiveness. Some of them just imagine to be in the game or in the movie and to do violent things; this is better than doing those things for real.
This could be an explanation for the fact we are discussing about.

Anyway these kinds of movies and games could also give inspiration for bad behaviors...
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Desirae Graham, 25 Aug 2007 @ 5:30pm

female
my comment for games like true crimes of new york and true crimes of la, i think its just a game to have fun and enjoy your self. i know that it has a lot of violence crime and killing in it, but its just a game. in the streets of new york voilence and crime dont apper up evey second its just a game its not real. besides games like this make the company more popular and richer. so keep on making games like this and make the fans keep coming back.
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Dr.Joe Waco of the university Antartica, 11 Sep 2007 @ 12:59pm

Violent Crimes Keep Dropping As Violent Video Game
I agree becuase over the last ten years youth violence has decreased as violent video games have become more, and more popular.
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Anonymous, 14 Nov 2007 @ 9:23am

It's all in the crazy people's heads!
THe thing is that when you get the criminals who balme GTA or Manhunt or whatever for their aggressive outbursts, the real reason is that they've got mental problems already and after a few hours of mindless killing the risk factors add up and all of a sudden you've got a murder on your hands. Okay, it's got something to do with the game, but that's like less than 1% of the people who play the games, so, in my mind there's no problem at all!

Thanks for reading ;)
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Anonymous, 14 Nov 2007 @ 9:23am

It's all in the crazy people's heads!
THe thing is that when you get the criminals who balme GTA or Manhunt or whatever for their aggressive outbursts, the real reason is that they've got mental problems already and after a few hours of mindless killing the risk factors add up and all of a sudden you've got a murder on your hands. Okay, it's got something to do with the game, but that's like less than 1% of the people who play the games, so, in my mind there's no problem at all!

Thanks for reading ;)
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Feb 2008 @ 10:01am

this is stupid
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terry, 27 Feb 2008 @ 5:12pm

open murder conspiracy in portland oregon
my name is terry wagar I'm e-mailing you because I'm at a loss as to what i can do about a very dangerous murder conspiracy against me and others, for over 2 and a half years I've suffered from this conspiracy, it began { as best as i can tell,} when my wife joan wagar started having a affair with a co-worker named eric carlson, there affair started around April of 2005, i had reason to believe they was trying to kill me back then but i wasnt sure at the time, I'm very very sure now! there is a very interesting fact about eric that joan tried to hide from me and my daughters, he is almost identical in appearance to me! my wife nicknamed him doubleclick, when i learned of my wifes affair i also learned of that nickname and asked joan "why do you call him doubleclick " she said " oh thats what everyone calls him at work," ever since my wife joan insisted her affair was over, it never ended, year and a half all kinds of odd things was happening i started getting very sick from time to time, i suspected she was poisoning me but was not sure at the time, i am now! in early 2006 around Feb or mar i went to the hospital asking to be tested because my wife was talking in her sleep saying she was poisoning me, i went to OHSU and signed in, they informed me that its unlikely that they will find anything but they took my vitals and i waited in the lobby, i waited 4 and a half hours and they never called me back to be checked, and no officers came to question me about my concerns. so i went home, i could tell no one there cared. this is just too long to explain so i will try to get to the point, on march 26th of 2007 at 5;55 am i put a audio recorder in joans purse because i heard my wife whispering to someone in her bedroom, { i slept on the couch, our marriage was falling apart.} i heard what sounded like a guy whispering back, so i put my recorder in her purse expecting to finally catch joan in the act and laid down pretending to still be asleep, ten minutes later my wife left for work, what i caught on there was a lot more than i expected, i caught a murder conspiracy! i didn't know it right away because the audio i got is like 17 hours long, when i heard on it she was with eric two days later i left her and moved in with my oldest daughter shawna, i spent the next week and a half on and off trying to listen to this audio, it didn't take long to figure out i was being framed for something by my wife and her lover, and they had help! lots of help, i learned i was under INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI and these INVESTIGATORS were good friends with joan and eric and they all met up at our apartment that morning in joans bedroom, they climbed in through joans window, i learned they were there to frame me as a pedophile, eric was posing for pictures in kayles bedroom,{ our youngest daughter,} while the INVESTIGATOR named ERICA { last name unknown to me.} was taking pictures of him while kayle slept, after words eric climbed out joans window and waited for her in her car, and a john ray climbed in and helped joan put something on our computer and then he left the way he came, joan finished getting ready for work and picked up her purse and left for work, once outside joan was talking to these INVESTIGATORS and discussing what they was going to do next, joan and eric on the ride to work was discussing what they was going to say to other employees when they get there, joan mentioned to eric {you woke her up} referring to kayle, and then they discussed breaking into shawnas apartment with ERICA, after lots of listening to that audio i learned joan eric and erica planed to rape shawna and murder her and then frame me for this! they planed to use a signed check of mine to purchase a gun in my name, remember eric looks almost like me in appearance, eric was going to use my ID and one of my checks to purchase a gun, joan was instructed to collect my sperm, eric was going to rape and murder shawna, erica was going to plant my sperm on shawnas body along with other false evidence, joan and eric met up at walmart along with vickie {joans sister} and the investigators and was waiting at the front door for someone to let them in, other employees showed up and the investigators pretended to have caught me in the act, [ referring to eric in kayles room,} and saying they got me on fotogenic, once inside the investigators proceed to put on a phony show of investigating while in the presence of walmart employees while joan and eric and vickie are trashing my name to there fellow employees turning everyone there against me, joan was even addmeting eric has been impersonating me for other crimes, after hours and hours of the investigators claiming in walmart employees presence that i was doing wrong things and joan and eric telling countless lies about me the investigators gave permission to all of them to pedifie me, joan started printing out flyers about me at walmart,{ unknown to me whether they used them or not.} i learned they had me under a illegal video survealence the hole apartment had hidden cameras and the investigators asked there supervisor to take 6;30 off of joan because john ray broke in there, when i left joan and moved in to my daughters apartment about 3 or 4 days later the FBI took over the apartment above shawna and they proceeded to spread rumors in shawnas neiborhood, and was spying on us as well with hidden cameras, they didn't know at that time that i knew they were up there, the ceiling in shawnas apartment has no insulation so i could hear them up there talking about editing my audio and discussing ways of killing me, i knew because they are members of authorities i couldn't get help calling 911, not to mention i was very worried for my family's safety i was afraid to tell shawna about this at this time for her own safety so i just continued to listen to the audio trying to learn as much about this as i could but for my own safety i pretended to not understand it well, about a week and a half after i left joan on April 7th donna { joans mother who also lives at shawnas apartment complex, } asked shawna if i could go to her apartment to fix her computer she said it wouldn't work on the Internet, i didn't want to but shawna insisted so i went over to Donna with shawna and tried to fix her computer, donna offered me a cup of coffee and i accepted, she brought me a cup of coffee and what looked like a mayonaze lid filled with sugar, i put 2 or 3 spoonfuls in my coffee and was sipping while working on her computer, finally i told donna i cant fix it and that maybe she should get a new computer, i drank up my coffee and me and shawna left to go back to shawnas apartment which isn't far away, by the time i got to the stairs i started not feeling well, once inside i really started feeling very sick and needed to lie down, fifteen minutes later my head felt like there was acid eating away at me from the inside, not thinking clearly i called Joanne asking if she could take me to the hospital, during the drive there joan was looking at her rear view mirror a whole hell of a lot, which gave me the suspicion we were being followed, keep in mind neither joan nor those investigators knew yet that i knew about them, once at the hospital i was so fucked up and hurting in my head that i needed a wheelchair, once i was admitted and taken back to a emergency room i waited and waited and no doctor ever came and examed me, one person came in acting like a doctor but never examed me, he only wanted to put his finger in my ass supposed for a colon test of some sort, but he never asked me what was wrong, never examed my eyes or mouth or ears, never took my vitals, never took a urine sample, i was holding my head in severe pain and all he wanted was to put his finger in my ass, once done he left, a half hour later a male nurse brought me a bottle of something to drink saying i need to drink the whole bottle and then i was going to some room to have a kind of ex ray of some sort, never once did a doctor examine me nor did a doctor come in to explain what was going on, after i drank the bottle the nurse took me to a room for this ex ray then brought me back to my room, about a hour later a doctor came and explained that the only thing they could find wrong was there was a little bleeding in my colon and he recommended i follow up with a colanoscopie, needless to say i was totally shocked at his blatant attempt to ignore the fact that NOBODY EXAMED ME!!! i knew at this time that those investigators had somehow interfered with my medical treatment and done something to prevent a doctor from examine me! i went back to shawnas apartment still in pain in my head, it felt like acid burning in there, and to this day i am still in pain in my head over this, about a week after this i stopped pretending to know nothing about this crap with joan and the investigators and looked up at the ceiling where they were and called them a bunch of criminals and murderers and that i was completely discuss ted with them, shawna was home at this time but didn't understand why i did that, an hour later shawna left for work and after that all hell broke loose up stairs, a whole lot of people in suits was going up there and there was some yelling and they seemed very angry, a lot of activity going on for the rest of that day in that apartment above shawnas place, at around 8 or 9 that nite several people went up there talking very loudly acting like they were looking at something and said very loudly { yep thats a pedophile alright.} and then him and a few others from that apartment ran out of there yelling at the top of there lungs through out the hole neaborhood calling me a pedophile, from this point on they was pedifieing me openly in shawnas neaborhood, just flat out calling me a pedophile to others in that neaborhood, this hole time i spent most of my time on the floor in pain from donna poisoning me, i flat out knew i could get no help calling 911 since these were people in authority doing this to me, they stopped doing this when shawna was around they didn't want her to know about it, i told shawna about this but she didn't believe me because she never witnessed any of it and no one at work mentioned this to her, she believed donna poisoned me but she never understood any of the other stuff, the investigators were quite until shawna left for work and was loud when she left, they would say things like { were going to FUCK you over now you son of a bitch!} i remained in the apartment for about a week after donna poisoned me unable to walk much because of the pain, around this time eric showed up downstairs talking very loudly up at the investigators, { the investigators were on the third floor on the patio and eric was on the ground talking up at them, shawnas app is in between them} and eric was loudly calling me a pedophile and giving my description to others who were out there trying to piss me off, i didn't go out to confront him because i knew they wanted to shoot me, before he left he yelled up at the investigators telling them to make sure i drink my coffee, keep in mind they weren't hiding any of there murder attempts from me, after all eric and joan had permission from the authorities to murder me so they just don't give a shit, i have reason to believe the authorities pressed charges against me and gave my disscription on tv because where ever i go people seem to recognize me, people in shawnas old neaborhood would point over at me and say "there's the guy they pedified." ever since i have been under attack behind my back and in front of my face, i learned from that audio that they pedified me in prison so if i get arrested for anything i will likely be murdered in prison, after they poisoned me at some point they broke into shawnas app and replaced my audio with a differant version hoping i would think its the original, i didn't fall for that,there version is nothing but a death threat against me and shawna and there demonstrating how they plan to frame my hole family and give them the blame for me being poisoned and pedofied, and at the end of it there flat out frameing me as a pedophile using my voice and kayles, although they made the mistake of admitting somewhere in the middle of the audio that there using kayles voice, on there replacement audio they threatened to pedofie shawna if i say something about this, well they already did that, what it amounts to is they tried to kill me and shawna, i caught them in the act , and then they threatened to kill us if i talk about it and then they tried to kill us again, so it does me no good to heed there threats, as far as I'm concerned they murdered me already and there in the process of murdering shawna right now, there have been too many attempts to tell them all on this, let me suffice it to say the other nite joan and a couple of her friends came here to murder me and that plan failed, but there not scared about it because they have some people in authority covering there asses, i write this on November 13th 2007 and at this very moment this apartment is under a illegal video survielence by the FBI, and they allow others over the Internet to spy on us and make fun of us, chances are there going to murder me for sending this because they made it clear there going to cover there asses, but thats why i saved the best for last.
p.s. the address where this ocured is 8800 se causey loop n-205 clackamas OR 97086, the whole neaberhood there has heard of this and the authorities used a warrant to kick out the tenants above shawnas apartment
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Andy, 21 Aug 2009 @ 1:49am

Violent Games
I agree because i play stuff like GTA and Dead Rising, and im not a little psyco crack addict.
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Nicole, 6 Oct 2009 @ 11:22am

Is this research fact advertisement for the video game Doom? If there were a correlation it would seem violent offenders and at risk youth would benefit from the availability of violent video games at youth centres, rehabilitation and detention centers. (I am not suggesting at risk youth are criminals)
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Bad Credit Mortgage, 17 Jun 2010 @ 6:47am

I havent any word to appreciate this post.....Really i am impressed from this post....the person who create this post it was a great human..thanks for shared this with us.

Scholarship
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Federico, 10 Feb 2015 @ 6:38am

gratuitous violence
I used many games very violent in my life but I have never had any kind of aggressive atteggiamente
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