$150 Million Sure Can Inject Some Life Into A Pointless Standards Battle Over Next Generation DVDs

from the oh-that? dept

Wed, Aug 22nd 2007 8:25am — Mike Masnick

In what must be the world's most pointless standards battle over next generation DVD technology, apparently all it takes to reignite the tiny fire of interest is $150 million. If you hadn't been paying attention (and, honestly, why would you?), two separate groups have been battling it out over which technology will represent the next generation of DVDs: Blu-ray or HD DVD. Like many standards battles these days, the players believe the pot is so lucrative that they refuse to come up with a single standard -- despite the fact that competing standards basically guarantee that both sides lose. Fewer people are willing to adopt one technology if there's still a half decent chance the other one might prevail. At the same time, fewer people are willing to adopt one technology if half the content they want to view is stuck on the other technology. It's a lose-lose situation. While the HD DVD crowd would deny this, over the last few months, it had finally seemed like Blu-ray was edging ahead (for example, with thieves). However, HD DVD's backers have fought back from oblivion by giving Paramount and Dreamworks $150 million to only release movies on HD DVD, effectively ensuring that this remains a standards battle that no one cares about. The good news is that the longer this battle goes on, the more likely most folks will simply jump to alternatives that don't involve plastic discs.

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Filed Under: blu-ray, dvds, hd-dvd
Companies: dreamworks, paramount

31 Comments

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Matthew, 22 Aug 2007 @ 8:41am

Scru Sony
To hell with Blu-Ray.

Remember the root kits!
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Overcast, 22 Aug 2007 @ 8:43am

From a consumer standpoint - I could careless which wins - I only have one preference - and that's which ever format is the most versatile and easy to use for me.

I want to be able to backup some of the DVD's I buy (some are barely worth watching, so I won't bother).

I want to be able to just record this and that to it, home videos, etc.. Simple - like existing DVD.

I want a choice on different vendors - not just a Sony or JVC machine. If I want a Panasonic or LG, then I should be able to buy that.

And I don't want to be limited by who I have to buy the DVD's from.

Otherwise, I'll be quite content to use my DVD writer now and DVD player now, until it's long since a dead technology. Even then, perhaps I'll just be watching it all 'on-demand'.

I grow tired of new formats, re-buying movies... If I can't burn the movies I have now and consolidate them to HD DVD, then it's worthless to me.

I *may* elect to get some in the newer format, but... hmmm, many I won't.

Looking at all that, and taking Sony's history into account, I guess I'd have to vote against Blu-Ray.

It would be like BetaMax Reduex, lol
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Tim, 22 Aug 2007 @ 8:47am

content
Bad hi def content on either standard is still bad hi def content.
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psaz, 22 Aug 2007 @ 8:57am

money money money
While money is definitely what I think is behind the decision, I think it goes far beyond the $150 million. Granted that's a fair amount of money, but Ars Technica has an article today where they talked to the CTO of Paramount about the decision and one thing definitely stood out in the conversation... Two words; "transactional offerings" Being able to charge a little here and there for extras? There's definitely money in them thar hills.
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nipseyrussell, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:01am

Re:
by Overcast...."From a consumer standpoint - I could careless which wins..."
i thought you meant "could NOT care less"....but then you went on to list all the reasons you MIGHT care what format wins, so i guess its true, you could care less, meaning, you care quite a bit!
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:08am

Sony is evil. They lost with betamax, they tanked with mini-disk, they installed the rootkits, now... they want to spoon feed everyone blue-ray. Good luck sony.
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Betaflame, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:11am

Re: Scru Sony
Anyone try to put the Casino Royal DVD into their computer? (Don't if you haven't) Sony is still at it.
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mac, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:28am

Blue Ray, HD TV Bah, Humbug!
We diched our TV abount a year ago, If I want to see a movie I go to the Theater where a movie should be seen.
I get my news and info from the internet or the paper...

Guess what happened when we ditched the TV? Everybody suddenly got along much better, we spend more time together, outdoors, with friends, family even pets...

If you ask me TV is evil and I'm glad I got rid of it.
As far as blue ray vs HD DVD; I could care less, with the crap there putting out today they can all go out of business!
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Craig, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:41am

Pointless?
I think a few million employees and shareholders of Sony, Microsoft, and Toshiba would argue that this battle is anything but pointless.

Granted, it's wasteful and bad for darn near everyone involved EXCEPT those invested in the "winning" side.
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OKVol, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:52am

There are techical reasons too
Check out:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070822-reasons-financial-and-technical-lurk-behind-pa ramounts-hd-dvd-coup.html

(cut&paste folks. Techdirt is afraid of XSS...)
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nunya_bidness, 22 Aug 2007 @ 9:54am

Maybe a solution
What about Samsung's BD-UP5000 hybrid Blu-ray and HD DVD disc player?
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Shamalama, 22 Aug 2007 @ 10:04am

Who cares?
I care. Ever since I saw a true 1080p picture on my 61" HDTV I hate watching anything but. Its like seeing a color broadcast on a color TV when all you knew existed beforehand was black and white. You dont want to go back and know you're missing all kinds of stuff with standard definition cable and DVD's. Sure only one will come out ahead here. I looked into player install base (how many people had them), which studios were producing on what (some are both), and specs. I went with a PS3/blu-ray player and love it. Chances are I will end up getting a 360 down the line to act as a media center extender and HD-DVD is still around, maybe toss the add-on on.

Sam
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Dan, 22 Aug 2007 @ 10:07am

new business model?
is there anyway to convert hd dvds to blu ray? though illegal i could see that becoming a good business in places where people care less about the legality of what they are buying. street vendors would be great with that.
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dorpus, 22 Aug 2007 @ 10:07am

Bring back minidiscs
Since more data fits on blu-ray, why not bring back minidiscs in proprietary format?
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 22 Aug 2007 @ 10:11am

Many Thoughts
Well, the prices for players on both sides is continually dropping, so using that a factor for choosing a side seems rather foolish.
I bet the 150M$ was quite a much larger part for the decision than any of those mentioned in the linked article by post #10.
Granted, they are good arguments and a couple of them actually are good things going for HD-DVD.
The idea of them linking to transactional BS online is okay, but they BETTER not try to force it down our throats.
As a consumer one thing that I am NOT happy with is they way they have approached trailers on the movies you buy.
If I go to a movie at a theatre, I am perfectly fine watching the trailers before the film, and look forward to it.
When I buy a DVD though, I HATE it when they have trailers before the movie.
If they want to toss it onto the DVD as a special feature selection, have at it, I don't mind.
But having them automatically play before the movie is stupid.
One year after you have bought the DVD the trailers serve no purpose. You already know about the film they are going to advertise, and that movie itself is already out on DVD.
It was a poor decision on all of their parts to force trailers playing before a movie.
It bothers me even more when they disable the chapter forward (or is that because they set up the DVD poorly?).
Then I have to hit the fast forward button a few times until it gets to 100X FF and stops when it hits the menu.

Anyone know if they actually can disable the chapter forward or if it is from the DVD being set up poorly chapter wise?
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John Feeney, 22 Aug 2007 @ 10:35am

Does anyone really listen.....
Comments shared here are not unique, however it is of note the manufactures continually take no-notice.

$200 price range(hardware is suppose to open the market acceptance, do you not remember when the automakers and oil companies attempt to push a gasoline change, they realized people want choice. Denying them that right an continually go the path of "proprietary" is a "Dead Man Walking".

It will take a 3rd party to obtain the licenses and create the universal unit and this subject will be left in the dust.

Notice the music videos have not moved one inch on the subject.
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jason, 22 Aug 2007 @ 11:36am

Blue ray is #1
As we all know blue ray discs hold 25gigs and HD DVD holds 15gigs each on a single layer. Well apparently blue ray is already making use of of two layers or 50gigs of space for some movies. It is apparent to me that the extra space blue ray discs offer compared to HDDVD is a valuable advantage. I feel that because of the PS3 being an amazing player for a reasonable price and because HDDVD cannot compete with BlueRay's storage space; blue ray will win this one.
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John Canada, 22 Aug 2007 @ 11:38am

Do you want to know which format to buy
Watch which format the Porn industry uses.

They chose VHS over BETA and we all hnow who won that battle.
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oldhick, 22 Aug 2007 @ 11:50am

is there any proof of this?
I keep seeing the same quote "two unidentified sources at Viacom" in every single blog entry for this story. Is everyone just copying what someone originally posted or has this been independently verified that they're paying $150 million?
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James, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:12pm

Actually....
I care about this standards battle, and I have made my choice, HD-DVD. This is very good news for me. I refuse to support Blu-Ray and Sony on this next generation format. I am also tired of everyone saying it does nothing but confuse the consumer. I am not confused one bit. I know the pros and cons of each side, and again, my choice is HD-DVD. Blu-Ray does have some movies I would like in HD, but I also don't mind purchasing those movies on regular dvd. So as far as I am concerned, HD-DVD can win, or we can have both exist side by side. Either is fine by me (and won't really matter much once dual-format players are a viable cost-effective choice).
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Larry, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:15pm

Re: Do you want to know which format to buy
Porn picked HD DVD months ago. Do a search on the tech dirt archives.
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Larry, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:19pm

Re: Does anyone really listen.....
Music videos come on disc? Just kidding, but with the exception of a few (latest disney stuff, which I haven't seed either) there doesn't seem to be enough volume there to sway one side or the other.
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Chet Kuhn, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:26pm

...and the winner is...
Coming from a background in the retail space of consumer electronics, I feel that I might have a little insight as to who is going to win this format battle. I just can't believe that I haven't seen anyone mention it before.

The winner is whoever gets a player into the hands of consumers for less than $100 first. That was the price point that sent the DVD industry into high gear, and it will be the price point that sends HD discs (regardless of format) into the same sort of saturation.

Consumers do not understand the difference between the discs, and they never will. They understand what it costs very, very well.
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James, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:39pm

Ugh
Again, why do people (i.e. Chet Kuhn) keep saying the consumers do not understand???????

"Consumers do not understand the difference between the discs, and they never will."

I am a consumer, and I know the differences between the formats. It's not that difficult of an idea to grasp. Give me a break. The consumer is a lot more savvy and intelligent than you give them credit for.
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FastBytes, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:45pm

Re: Sony
"Sony is evil. They lost with betamax"

A very common mis-conception... While they didn't get the consumer end, they didn't loose with the BetaMax format. That format did go on and was in every professional video production and ENG facility. Everywhere you looked, Betacams, and Beta editing stations were there. That market was very profitable for them. While the consumer market is huge, the profit margins are really thin.

just my 0.02
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Aug 2007 @ 12:55pm

Re: Ugh
I agree, nothing pisses me off more than going into a store and having home jerk-off sales clerk talk down to me because he assumes that I could not possibly understand the complexities of whaterver the hell it is that he/she is selling.

The general consumer understands more than they are often given credit for.
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Alex Hagen, 22 Aug 2007 @ 1:55pm

Re: Re: Sony
"I am a consumer, and I know the differences between the formats."

Yeah, you read Techdirt, which pretty much makes you very different from the average consumer. Most people probably have never heard of either, and will never know the difference between the two.
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Dylan, 22 Aug 2007 @ 2:47pm

And what about downloads?
When Blockbuster/NetFlix finally allow me to download my movie in HD overnight I'll throw my DVD player in the garbage bypassing HD DVDs completely.
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OKVol, 22 Aug 2007 @ 2:53pm

One thing for sure
I'm not going to buy either until:

1. I can get one for under $150 at Wal-Mart.
2. This stupid format war is over, and I can get any movie I want in the format of the under $150 player from Wal-Mart.
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CreamyBlood, 22 Aug 2007 @ 10:40pm

Re: Blue ray is #1
I haven't paid attention to this 'war' for a couple of years but I'd go with the 25GB over 15 any day. Who cares if sony is evil? I'd rather get almost twice the data on a disc with my burner. We'll probably just be using dual format players/burners in a few years, instead of being able to cheaply burn 25/50GB to a disc now.

In the mean time I'll burn my data to DVD.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2007 @ 12:19pm

Re: Re: Do you want to know which format to buy
"Porn picked HD DVD months ago. Do a search on the tech dirt archives."

And porn now needs to re-think thire up and close shots. Nothing like seeing the zits on that...
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