Australian Web Censorship Continues Down The Slippery Slope

The Pirate Bay To Sue Entertainment Companies For Attacks

from the could-get-interesting dept

Fri, Sep 21st 2007 7:59pm — Mike Masnick

Well, this could get interesting. Following the leak of MediaDefender's emails, the folks behind The Pirate Bay now believe they have enough evidence to sue many major entertainment firms for "infrastructural sabotage, denial of service attacks, hacking and spamming." Basically, there's evidence in the emails that a bunch of firms, including Universal, EMI, Sony, Paramount and others were using MediaDefender to try to mess with The Pirate Bay's system. Whether or not the lawsuit actually goes anywhere may depend on a lot of factors (including Swedish laws, which I am totally unfamiliar with). There may be some questions about how the emails in question were obtained. And, of course, the entertainment companies will likely counter that they were just trying to protect their own materials -- which could find a sympathetic ear in a courtroom. Either way it would be quite a lawsuit.

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Filed Under: copyright, denial of service, p2p, sabotage
Companies: emi, fox, paramount, pirate bay, sony, ubisoft, universal

58 Comments

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StarFleet Command, 21 Sep 2007 @ 8:28pm

Pirate bay suiing attackers
Ha! This is great! Put others on the defensive for a while...meanwhile, I have to go...i have some TV shows I wanna download. And at the risk of seeming /. 1st post???
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PeopleGeek, 21 Sep 2007 @ 8:38pm

Pirate Bay
Arrrgh!!!
Fire at will Matey.
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ScaredOfTheMan, 21 Sep 2007 @ 8:42pm

These guy have Big b@lls!
They do more to piss off the entertainment industry than anyone else. You would think after being raided and arrested they would throw in the towel... not these guys... Its almost comical how now one can stop them now, and they went from defense to offense!
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glitch, 21 Sep 2007 @ 9:06pm

the end doesnt justify the means
the entertainment industries, contrary to their belief, are not above the law[s]. where is the confusion ??

"infrastructural sabotage, denial of service attacks, hacking and spamming."

there are no "except.."
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matt, 21 Sep 2007 @ 9:11pm

its 50/50 on the case
I support the case on the moral side, DDOS attacks are illegal.

That part of the evidence is easy. Proving the IP's are attached to the companies involved is also very easy. So don't assume they need to use the mediadefender emails to prove anything at this point :) All they have to do is identify the IP's that were registered and the original registrants, and I sincerely hope the media companies changed the identities since then! specifically because in doing so it proves more illegality, since there are records kept when domain name changes are made.

Easy legal case done and done!
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2007 @ 9:41pm

I'm getting out the popcorn for this one. And I'm cheering for the pirates.
Pirates of the Internet: At Law's End.
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GoblinJuice, 21 Sep 2007 @ 9:52pm

Isn't this a bit like calling the cops when the guy you try to buy pot from robs you?
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TriZz, 21 Sep 2007 @ 10:01pm

Re: @ GoblinJuice
...your comment is epic. You win the "greatest comment of the day in the entire blogosphere" award. Congrats to you, good sir.
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Shun, 21 Sep 2007 @ 10:11pm

Easy way out
I can see the companies taking the easy way out and blame the ddos attacks on...other pirates. Say that group spreading the zombie worm. "Gee, it wasn't our fault. We just had a bunch of unpatched Win98 machines hooked up to the net, and next thing you know, they were attacking Pirate Bay. Go figure."

It works for defendants of RIAA lawsuits. Why shouldn't it work for MediaDefender?
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Captain Hack Sparrow, 21 Sep 2007 @ 10:44pm

Re:
I sense a trilogy.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2007 @ 11:49pm

If the Swedish legal system...
is anywhere near as corrupt as the US version then this will never get anywhere. First the Swedish police will refuse to raid the companies involved to preserve evidence or bring criminal charges. Then some judge will throw out any lawsuit. IF Sweden is like the US that is.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2007 @ 11:59pm

Re:
Isn't this a bit like calling the cops when the guy you try to buy pot from robs you?
Maybe, if you're talking about a shop in Amsterdam where buying pot is legal. But even your analogy seems to assume that US laws apply worldwide and they don't. Not yet anyway. The Pirate Bay is legal there so why shouldn't they call the cops?
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2007 @ 12:01am

Re: Easy way out
Hey, Sony can just blame it on one of their own rootkits!
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Pumpsie Green, 22 Sep 2007 @ 12:18am

Re: Re:
IF the Pirate Bay is doing business legally AND they prevail in this lawsuit, they will have then proven that they are liable in the previous actions against them. Probably not the best tact for them, although I understand why they fire back.
Pumpsie
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2007 @ 12:27am

Re: Re: Re:
IF the Pirate Bay is doing business legally AND they prevail in this lawsuit, they will have then proven that they are liable in the previous actions against them.

Huh? You need to explain that one.
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Monarch, 22 Sep 2007 @ 4:53am

Re: Re: Re:by Pumpsie Green
Yeah, please explain.., I seem to be in the dark here. And, I usually catch all the news on Pirate Bay. This is entertainment at it's best! Now if only The Pirate Bay would create a reality TV show about their adventures.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2007 @ 5:08am

Maybe I missunderstand this but I believe it goes something like this.
First a small cartel of companies rip off the artists for their content.
Then this cartel bribes legislators making them sole distributor of the content.
Then the pirates rip off the first set of thieves by making the content freely available to the world.
Now the pirates are going to sue the thieves for interfering with their delivery system.

This is going to be a hoot!
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2007 @ 6:30am

i think Michael Douglas should star as the webmaster of Pirate Bay, Jack Nicholson as the ring leader of the "cartel" and Kevin Spacey as the almost desitute laywer who defends Pirate Bay from this evil "cartel". Throw in a cameo from the creater of Napster and get M. Bay to direct! Should bring in millions or dollars of revenue and I can sit at home and download the dvdrip and soak in the irony of it all.
God I love internet.
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Problem Child, 22 Sep 2007 @ 8:52am

hahahah
Break one law to uphold another? interesting. Hack to kill piracy. Sympatheic ear? I should shoot everyone near my yard to prevent buglary too. lol.
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Captian Fred, 22 Sep 2007 @ 9:23am

Pirate Bay
Make those scalliwags walk the plank...
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2007 @ 9:33am

Re: Re: Easy way out
Well depending on who's fault that who rootkit thing is I would not be surprised if Sony tried to use that defense.
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Mike is Stretching, 22 Sep 2007 @ 10:14am

Link doesn't match your statement
Mike quote,

"The Pirate Bay now believe they have enough evidence to sue many major entertainment firms for "infrastructural sabotage, denial of service attacks, hacking and spamming."

When I look at the link, all it says is the Pirate Bay reported these alleged incidents to the police. No mention of a lawsuit.

I really doubt that a lawsuit would follow because the Pirate Bay would open itself up to discovery from all the firms mentioned in the link.

This looks pretty much like a publicity stunt.

Mike your analysis about the whether the emails and how they were obtained and whether they would end up admissible in court is more interesting.
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Dr. Klahn, 22 Sep 2007 @ 10:51am

Toss of the coin
Isn't this a bit like calling the cops when the guy you try to buy pot from robs you?

That actually was done locally by one of Our Best and Brightest. The transcript of the complaint call to the PD was just a stitch.

This, I think, is more along the lines of Bill Cosby's "Toss of the Coin." "Cap'n Pirates, this here's Cap'n Establishment. Call the toss, Cap'n Establishment ... OK, Establishment called heads, it's tails, what will you do, Pirates? ... Cap'n Pirates say you boys got to get down ready to hike the ball like usual while their entire team sneaks up from behind and kicks y'all inna nuts."
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Legal mumbo, 22 Sep 2007 @ 11:27am

Jumbo,
In Swedish law it does not matter how the evidence was obtained. There are no provisions set aside to disallow "illegally obtained evidence". It is up to the judge presiding over the case to weigh up the evidence from both sides. There are exceptions however where medical staff are involved.

And it wont make ThePirateBay liable for all previous suits as in Swedish law there is nothing illegal about meerly linking to unauthorized materials. The trackers present on thepiratebay merely link to the files located on their users computers.

What IS illegal however is getting someone to cause real damage to services offered by hacking and DDoSing. thepiratebay believes that it has enough evidence to win. It is only going after companies with representation in Sweden, because unlike **IA and gang it doesn't make up laws and use illegal tactics. The use of these emails in court will be fine as they were not the ones that illegally obtained them, they were using them after they had been released.

Its about time someone showed these record companies that its not ok for them to just ignore/make up the law, and they are not above it.
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Legal mumbo (same as above), 22 Sep 2007 @ 11:30am

Re: Jumbo,
As far as I know they are also not suing the companies, they have filed criminal complaints, reporting the incidents to the Swedish police.

I may be wrong on this however, but it is all the Blog post from them seems to show.
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yx, 22 Sep 2007 @ 2:17pm

It is not the first time the pirate movement have filed charges against the 'right protectors'. The prosecutor didn't take it up then, and don't hold your breath that they will this time either.

Of course, if it is flagrant enough then it actually might happen, though I personally believe it won't, because of pressure from the upper echelons of prosecutors. Those seems to follow the wishes of MAFIAA in whatever they want :(
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jb, 22 Sep 2007 @ 2:38pm

Re:
But in this case, the pot is legal, so your usual correctness does not apply.
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LaGTaLiTy, 22 Sep 2007 @ 4:14pm

Arr!
The Pirates will never surrender, keep handing over your booty, major entertainment firms!
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B, 22 Sep 2007 @ 7:16pm

Yar
Yes, I doubt a lawsuit will ensue, but we'll see.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Sep 2007 @ 1:31am

The Pirate Bay does not host any copyrighted content on their servers/sites. They are doing nothing illegal, in their country.

The 'Entertainment' companies were trying to hack, sabotage and DDoS their servers. That is illegal in the majority of countries. So it would appear that the MAFIAA is about to loose this one.

This will be awesome for sure!
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Alexander, 23 Sep 2007 @ 4:33am

Nothing will happen.
I think it's quite likely that nothing will happen from this.

Remember the catalyst behind the raid against PB before, basically our legal system being in the pocket of strong financial interests from another country?

We've even had representatives here "educating" our police in the matter, apparently leaning on them and telling them what to do as well.

Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy feeling?
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Rick, 23 Sep 2007 @ 6:40am

Lawyers win everytime
Do you guys really think this will help Pirate Bay? The only ones that win lawsuits are the lawyers. The media companies have more lawyers than they have media. Lawyers to sue others, lawyers to defend from others... before it's all over, Pirate Bay will drown in legal fees from the years long battle.
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All I can say is..., 23 Sep 2007 @ 7:39am

OWNED!
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Legal Mumbo, 23 Sep 2007 @ 8:59am

Re: Nothing will happen.
And the backlash from it was immense. Politicians only care about one thing, getting back into office, everything else they do revolves around this one thing. They dont make policies because they particularly like/want that to happen or care about the things the policies do, they make them because they will be popular and get them back in.

Judging from the outcry and just general unhappyness directed at the swedish government for being a US pawn, i dont think they want to risk it again.
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Davkaus, 23 Sep 2007 @ 10:38am

Re: Lawyers win everytime
Rick, that is probably exactly why they are filing for criminal charges, not pursuing them in the civil court. Apparently it slipped by Mike. I urge you to always check the source.
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RandomThoughts, 23 Sep 2007 @ 12:22pm

If Pirate Bay has nothing to worry about because they don't have to conform to US law, why would other companies have to worry about conforming to Swedish law?
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Mike (profile), 23 Sep 2007 @ 12:57pm

Re: Link doesn't match your statement
When I look at the link, all it says is the Pirate Bay reported these alleged incidents to the police. No mention of a lawsuit.

Title of the post on the Pirate Bay site: "TPB files charges against media companies"

Hence my title. So, actually, the link does support the claim that they're planning to sue.
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colg, 23 Sep 2007 @ 4:39pm

"If Pirate Bay has nothing to worry about because they don't have to conform to US law, why would other companies have to worry about conforming to Swedish law?"

Because they have material assets in, and do business with... Sweden.
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Davkaus, 23 Sep 2007 @ 5:49pm

Re: Re: Link doesn't match your statement
Mike, no it doesn't. "Files charges" means that they've asked the police to investigate the allegations, not that TPB are seeking civil redress.
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Pope Ratzo, 23 Sep 2007 @ 6:29pm

God Bless The Pirate Bay
The RIAA has been using quasi-legal methods to go after people who they target, including threats, intimidation and even posing as law enforcement officials. It's time for them to get a taste of being on the other side.
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sharingislegal, 23 Sep 2007 @ 6:44pm

GO GET EM!!!!!
I'm rooting for you Pirate Bay. :)
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Mike Jones! Who?, 23 Sep 2007 @ 10:35pm

Re: Re:
As it should be!
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ECA (profile), 24 Sep 2007 @ 2:37am

Interesting..
1. does this fall under International LAW..
2. there is a trick in the USA...ITs NOT the law that was broken, its the STATE you file it in..
Something MAY not be legal IN your state, but you can FILE from a state that IT IS illegal...
Ever wonder WHY most banking is done in Delaware?? Wilmington?? LOOK up the laws THERE...BANKING LAWS.
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SkiONe, 24 Sep 2007 @ 4:18am

Re: its 50/50 on the case
matt, I am sure they used a WebBot network to pull of the DOS attack
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The infamous Joe, 24 Sep 2007 @ 8:11am

Maybe.
Maybe the companies will say you can't prove it was them just from their IP address...

..you know, like the people who have been saying this whole time.

I really hope something comes from this.
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Legal Mumbo, 24 Sep 2007 @ 9:46am

Re: Maybe.
No, the defense against the RIAA and their, at a loss for a better word, idiotic lawsuits, was that you cannot tie an INDIVIDUAL, down to a specific IP address. You can tie down the person who owns the account, maybe even the computer if its connected directly to the internet but you can not tie an individual.

It works a little differently when its a company being charged, TPB doesnt have to prove it was an individual in that company, they meerly have to prove that it was an internal IP address from the company involved. Now this still doesnt bring enough evidence, but they think from this new leak of emails they have enough evidence in conjunction with some IP's to take these guys down a notch.

I havent seen the golden emails but id think they would have to have some good stuff to actually file for charges.
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Legla Mumbo, 24 Sep 2007 @ 9:50am

Re: Interesting..
This does not fall under international law. This falls under Swedish law as its a Swedish company filing for charges against assets of these companies in Sweden.
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Chris Brand, 24 Sep 2007 @ 9:57am

As Stewart Baker of the Department of Homeland Security said :

"It's very important to remember that it's your intellectual property -- it's not your computer."
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commenter., 24 Sep 2007 @ 5:48pm

hmmm..
awesome!
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Shin Rukus Z, 30 Sep 2007 @ 11:30pm

MediaDefender
MediaDefender uses a range of non-invasive technological countermeasures employed on P2P networks to frustrate users’ attempts to steal/trade copyrighted content. We have a proven track record of adapting to challenges and successfully protecting our customers as new technologies and networks arise
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********************, 8 May 2008 @ 4:14pm

counter suit by Pirates Bay...
They are by rights 'operating within legal parameters'. They are only a search engine for torrent files. They have NO control over the content of those torrents. That is controlled by the people that make the torrent file... And using things like 'rootkits' and DSA's and Massive doses of SPAM... come on! That is just childish. Screw it, just lock your movies, music or software better if you don't want it pirated and quit trying to rip off people maybe you wouldn't get cracked all the time. And start makin' good movies!!! And let the artists play the music THEY WANT TO PLAY not what you think will sell! And quit picking on folks just cause they want to preview some show or movie or some music... They wind up buying it if they like it anyway!!!
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Dino, 19 Jan 2009 @ 7:56am

Re: Re: @ GoblinJuice
Not really since Pirate Bay aren't doing anything illegal under their laws whereas selling pot is illegal. What the big companies are accused of doing is illegal.
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HehehHAHAHAHA!!, 1 Mar 2009 @ 3:57pm

HaHaHAHAHAHAH!
I'm laughing so hard right now I can barely type. This is BEAUTIFUL!!! The illegal download site suing the big companies...

I would laugh so incredibly hard if TPB actually succeeded.
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andrew, 4 Mar 2009 @ 6:38am

Re: hahahah
Actually in Florida you will be 100% protected by the law if you kill someone while their breaking into your house ():-/
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Occum, 14 Mar 2009 @ 6:09pm

Niiice
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Occum, 14 Mar 2009 @ 6:11pm

Re: Niiice- My bad
Forgot to actually put my post in.

It seems like if The Pirate Bay was a physical senitent entity then it would probably say "Silly bitch, your weapons cannot harm me. Don't you know who the fuck I am? You must not know who the fuck i am! I'm the juggernaut bitch!"
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Sean, 17 Mar 2009 @ 4:51am

Re: Re: hahahah
I think that's legal in any states... it's a castle law... you can not be expected to retreat from your place of residence so you're allowed more leeway with excessive force... just don't shoot them in the back ;)
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Tim Vim, 26 Mar 2010 @ 4:13am

Re: Anonymous Coward
THE INTERNET IS NOT A BIG TRUCK!
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