Don't Post This Cease-and-Desist Letter, Or Else
from the let's-test-that-theory dept
Greg Beck writes "In an apparent attempt to avoid the Streisand Effect, lawyers sending threat letters sometimes claim that the recipient would violate the firm's copyright by posting it online. This post is about Public Citizen's response to one dumb threat letter and its decision to post the letter online despite the copyright claim." It's funny how popular it has become for lawyers to claim it's illegal to post or even show anyone their cease-and-desist letters. Remember: just because a lawyer says so, it doesn't mean it's true. You can see Public Citizen's response to the letter (pdf), which lays out a variety of reasons why the cease and desist is ridiculous (it's yet another attempt to force criticism offline) and ends with a fantastic response to the claim that the original C&D is covered by copyright and cannot be posted online without additional charges: "By this letter, we are inviting you to test the validity of your theory that the writer of a cease and desist letter can avoid public scrutiny by threatening to file a copyright law suit if his letter is disclosed publicly on the internet." Somehow, I doubt the opposing lawyer will test out this theory.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: cease and desist, copyright, streisand effect
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Maybe they should make sure they send it to the right people?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Can you turn on the lawyers?
I mean, the general public doesn't know enough about this subject to know if this claim - or others like it - are true or not. If it turns out that they are false, what can be done to the sneeky lawyer who tried to trick unaware people?
It's the same as getting, for instance, videos pulled from Youtube when they are obviously fair use. You see plenty of these cases, but does any one really fight back and get the people perpetrating their ideals as facts correctly punished?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
RE: Disbar them...
It is impossible to write a law that will apply 100% to 100% of cases. There are some that are exact examples of the law - (the majority, one would hope) - but the rest require a decision on the topic.
Enter a judge / jury.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Disbar them...
So already you have to enter into more mucky muck.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
No License... No Reading
Regarding your recent letter containing copyrighted content, I seem to not have an appropriate license to read your letter. I sure wish I could respond to whatever allegations you claim, but that would require that I read your letter, of which I do not have a proper license to do.
Sincerely,
Your Victim
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
copyright
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Outrage is relative to image
Yet when a lawyer sends a letter, many of those same people comply with the instructions because they have little or no knowledge of the workings of the law and frankly find the mechanics involved to be mysterious and confusing.
It's amazing how easily impressed we are by the self-conjured image of a person in a suit, as opposed to when presented with the reality of a person in coveralls.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
For all those calling for retribution...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
making this email public or ridiculing it will res
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Copyrighted
Dear Mr. Morris, Esq.:
I have read your letter dated September 21, 2007. Unfortunately, according to your letter, I do not have the rights to act upon the contents of your letter.
You state in your letter that I am "not authorized to republish this in any manner." Your letter also says across the top "FOR NEGOTIATION AND SETTLEMENT PURPOSES ONLY."
Because of the tone of these warnings, I feel that it is inappropriate for me to assume any rights that are not specifically granted to me in your letter. Unfortunately, you do not detail your definition of any of the above restricting terms, and how they relate to the activities that I consider relevant to acting on the contents of your letter. Am I permitted to "review" the contents of the letter? Can I transmit the letter to another location, either physically or in electronic format, for the purposes of more expeditiously reviewing your request? How am I permitted to share the contents with any other individuals (say, any employees, or any site visitors that you claim have posted defamatory content)? May I use the contents to direct activities regarding the content that you regard as defamatory? This are some but by no means all of the usages that I need to have defined in order to be able to consider your request.
Until and unless you fully describe and define any and all activities and usages that have been granted to me in use of your copyrighted material, I cannot act on any information that is contained in this copyrighted document. If in any subsequent communications you fail to fully define all usage rights that I consider relevant to considering your request, I will again withhold action until this oversight is corrected.
Accordingly, I am returning your copyrighted material with this letter, as I cannot be held accountable for its contents being misdirected or misused.
Regards,
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ive arrived from the land of /. and wonder...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Abuse of the law
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Can you turn on the lawyers?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The reply letter is even better
Or maybe as Ian McShane (as Al Swearengen from Deadwood.)
The blue language just makes it, you know, work.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Gotta love the lawyer website!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Opened up
This is a LICENSING statement. It licenses the copyrighted work for the purposes of "Negotiation and Settlement". Which in this case enables me to publish the work as a means to publicize their C & D letter and criticism of it, a common tactic in Negotiations.
I have used the copyright within the guidelines of their copyright license.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Outrage is relative to image
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Can you turn on the lawyers?
EtG
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: copyright
emphasis mine
However, given that the entire basis of the letter is fiction, perhaps it can be copyrighted...
EtG
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yea,.....Right....
Is there a case here for mail fraud???
[ link to this | view in thread ]
TPB
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I don't actually own my car. Well, ok, I do own it, but I cannot use it (on public roads) unless it is legally licenser, registered, insured, and I am licensed...
I don't own my iPhone, well, same thing...I do own it, but I just cannot use it unless I let Apple and AT&T dictate to me how, when and where.
SO what next?
The big flaw in thinking that there is some protective copyright on a C&D letter is that once it is filed in the courts, it becomes PUBLIC DOMAIN...so much for Copyright.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
There is one thing, however:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Outrage is relative to image
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: copyright
How to Secure a Copyright
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See “Copyright Registration.”
Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. “Copies” are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. “Phonorecords” are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the “work”) can be fixed in sheet music (“copies”) or in phonograph disks (“phonorecords”), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Outrage is relative to image
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Torrent for those Files
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Solution: anti-SLAPP motion to strike
Such a motion is available in California and in other states as well.
Essentially, it is a way for the small guy to fight Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation (big companies trying to shut the little guy up by suing him) by giving other lawyers incentive to take the cases on contingency. If this shit happens to you, contact the EFF; they send out emails to lawyers across the country who may take your defense on contingency.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Missing NDA
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Abuse of the law
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Just a thought...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cease & Desist
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Just another thought
[ link to this | view in thread ]
they do have copy right
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Is this extortion
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Disbar them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Using the Legal Process
The better way to get back at the attorneys is to use their own forum against them. Since they are asserting that posting the letter would constitute an infringement, file a declaratory judgment against the firm in your local federal court seeking a declaration that posting the letter would be a fair use. The last thing the attorney wants to be doing is hiring a law firm in your home town to defend a lawsuit that makes him look stupid.
Additionally, add in a declaratory judgment claim that your use of the underlying action was a fair use - or any other defense. Not only is the litigation conducted on your home court, it also lets the judge know right off the bat that the attorney on the other side is a moron who likes to stretch his case a bit.
[ link to this | view in thread ]