How Would You Sentence A Convicted Spammer?
from the what-makes-sense? dept
We've covered some of the case against spammer Robert Soloway. He was arrested back in May of 2007 on criminal (rather than civil) charges. He'd already lost multimillion dollar civil lawsuits from Microsoft and an ISP. He hadn't paid a dime of what he owed. Instead, he just kept on spamming. When he was arrested, of course, officials claimed that it would have an immediate impact on spam -- but it doesn't seem like spam has decreased at all. Earlier this year, Soloway pleaded guilty, and now the judge in the case is struggling over what the sentence should be, noting that there's little to compare it to that may be appropriate (her closest approximation: a polluter).Of course, Soloway is hardly the first spammer to receive a jail sentence. A few years back Jeremy Jaynes received nine years in jail for spamming. This certainly seemed excessive, no matter how much you hate spam. It seems like there would be better ways to punish spammers than give them sentences worse than some violent offenders. And, of course, for all the talk about how these long sentences would deter spammers, the only thing it seems to have deterred is their willingness to so openly brag about their achievements. There's more spam than ever before and it's harder than ever to track the spammers down. So, are there more creative ideas for how Soloway should be dealt with beyond just locking him up? Update In related news, another spammer has just been given 30 months in jail.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: email, sentencing, spam
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
sentence
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: sentence
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Justice
I'm so biased against spammers, I'd propose a sentence that would probably violate the 8th amendment's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment:
Solway should be force to read —aloud, just so we know he's really reading— every single piece of spam that he ever sent. Every single spam. Every one. Read 'em and weep.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Justice
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Justice
Oh, we'll get a machine to do the listening part.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Justice
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Justice
How does lashing him with a wet noodle sound? Sentence him to be lashed with a wet noodle one-hundred million times...
Or slapping him on the wrist? Maybe that's even better... Slap him on one wrist fifty million times or so, and then slap his other wrist fifty million times.
(There about over a billion people on the 'net these days, and 10% seems like a good, rough estimate of the number of people Solway's spammed.)
Really, any proportional sentence is going to violate the eighth amendment. So instead his sentence must be calculated strictly with an eye pour encourager les autres. IOW, the sentence should be based on deterrent effect only.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I would...
The reason i say only a year is because spam is annoying but can be dealt with pretty easy. I get 1,000+ spam emails a day and i just block each one separately, and now about 95% of them go to the spam folder. And with almost every single email provider having a spam blocker of some kind, it's even less of a problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I would...
With over 1,000 spam e-mails a day, I would suggest that you attempt to learn what behavior you are exhibiting which promotes that level of spam. You might also go through your block list and make a few apologies to those persons who were blocked for no real reason.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
better sentence
They can live at home (saving the state money) and they can have a computer. But as a condition of their parole, the computer must be at least 5 years old, their internet connection must be 56k or slower, and they must use an email account without spam filters of any kind.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: better sentence
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Excessive? 9 Years? Not at all.
I would sentence egregious and repeated SPAMming with no hint of remorse on a par with manslaughter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
From an administrative standpoint, there's a significant overhead cost associated with this that by far trumps the inconvenience of receiving spam as an end user.
One could argue that even without the costs added in, spam is on the same level as harassment. Let's just convict him of 9 million counts of harassment, make him serve each sentence after the next and be done with him.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
house arrest with no internet
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Whatever happened to spam filters
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I think you may have hit on a way to have the punishment fit the crime. Make him work as a human spam filter for the next 5 years or so. He could work for one of the many large charity organizations. He would, for example, be responsible for personally examining EVERY piece of mail that comes into the United Way.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
make them work for the goodguys
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Appropriate punishment
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Appropriate punishment
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I HATE SPAMMERS
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Punishment
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
penalty for spamming
(this is not intended to be taken seriously)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: penalty for spamming
FINISH HIM!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Alex
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Let it fit
It would please me if the convicted spammer could be sent to jail where he would be allowed the use of a computer which has its outgoing services disabled. Then he should be required to collect 365 Get Out of Jail tokens from email messages which will be buried, one per day, in as much spam as he is convicted of having sent. This means he must sort through thousands or perhaps millions of useless messages, and find the one gem in the pile, day after day, just as I have to do. Perhaps there could even be a webcam and a site showing the spammers at work.
If he is diligent, he can secure his release in a year.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
CAN SPAM
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Spamming: Mandatory work for an allotted period of time to identify address farming, spam filter avoiding and spam technique methods with a government agency to come up with a comprehensive methodology of dealing with eliminating spam. (reference: Frank Abagnale Jr.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Make him suffer without his luxuries, and maybe THAT will curb his willingness to abuse and lose them all again.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oh and as this is a computer crime, like Hacking, he is a threat to National Security so off to Gitmo for him.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The War on Spam
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A Fair punishment idea
2. If the fined party does not pay assigned fines within a specified time, they go to jail and earn current labor rates (about $1/day atm) to pay off their fine.
3. Parole or release for good behavior etc... under the condition that the next missed payment on the fine will put you back in prison.
4. Further convictions put you back in jail just like missing payments.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Exile/Death/Public Flogging
Think about it. They're actively trying to cheat people, get around tons of preventative measures people have put in place to do so. They are garbage. I just want them gone, I don't care how.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
In a perfect world..
Copied from Bash
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The fact is that our system of email is too open to abuse. We should be fixing the protocol, and not jailing the people that abuse an easily abused system. Any punishment they do receive should be the result of OTHER laws they're breaking, such as scamming, hacking and false advertisement.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
There are much better countermeasures than spam filters, and when we're ready we'll start using them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
death by firing squad...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fines and community service
The ones that should be severely punished are the ones paying the spammer to spam and have knowledge that it's occurring. They can't even claim ignorance, if everyone gets the spam then at some point the seller is going to get their own spam.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Fines and community service
Chances are that the guy in the dock is a mediocre manager at best who anonymously hired a squad of programmers. Would you really consider more managers useful?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
and the most appropriate punishment is....
Spam hasn't killed anybody. Just fine him and let him go.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Barring them from computer access will hurt them most; it will be worse than jail time for them and they'll be forced to earn a living the hard way.
In this day and age, taking away computer access is a very severe punnishment - especially for someone who's life revolved around it.
Make them pay restitution and save the jail time for only if they violate sentencing terms (i.e. are caught using a computer).
Any would-be spammer would think twice about how they make a living if they knew their computer access would be taken away.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
As I commented upthread, the guy who has been caught and is in the dock is most likely a middle-manager type who hired programmers anonymously to write a "turnkey" system. He could keep on running this from a simple office with a typewriter and a 'phone. Everyone assumes the person who got caught was some sort of "super-hacker". He wasn't, necessarily - he ran the company. Despite popular preconceptions it's still possible to run a company without a computer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Punishment
I think forcing the spammer to read every single one of his e-mails is a great punishment. Even make him read the ones that are garbage and nonsense characters.
Who should listen? How about his parents, for starters. Let them hear how their son is sending out spam for "Canadian drugs" and other unmentionables.
Then have him read the spam e-mails to his kids? You say the kids are too young to hear about x-rated porn spam? Too bad- that's what their daddy does.
Maybe the he should go into a school and talk about spam e-mails on the "What my father does for a living" day. Then, he should read every spam e-mail until the teacher decides the kids in the class have been traumatized enough.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Appropriate punishment
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sentence?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
And yes - written apologizes to all those he was spamming.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
No internet use for years.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
He owes money...big money which he can't afford nor pay back if he is jailed. Make him work off the lawsuit...that should keep him busy for the rest of his life!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
SPAM
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Punishment is hopeless
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Punishment is hopeless
This solution has problems. A spammer can gin up new accounts easily (if they're free-- otherwise there are many other problems). An innocent victim of a zombie virus can lose email access. A hacker can send phony feedback and get innocents kicked off the servers.
I've been thinking about two other approaches. One involves digital cash, which nobody seems interested in implementing, the other involves digital tags I call passports: I make up a few of these and distribute them to my friends, who attach them to any mail they send to me. My email robot destroys any incoming message that doesn't have a passport. I can include a passport with a post in a public forum (like this one) which any reader can use to contact me, or with my letter to a stranger, or whatever. If I receive spam, I simply strike that passport from my robot's list (and maybe chide the person to whom I entrusted it, and maybe distribute a new one). All of this can be done by hand, or managed invisibly by email software. The important thing is that it doesn't require ridding the world of spam.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Leave him to me. I get it done! :)
rinse and repeat.
cruel. very curel indeed but should be effective. send the video to the other spammers.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
blowing ego
[ link to this | view in chronology ]