FTC Outlaws Pre-recorded Sales Calls

from the but-will-they-enforce-it? dept

Wed, Aug 20th 2008 3:37pm — Mike Masnick

Over the past few months, at least twice a week, I've received a phone call on my mobile phone with a stern (almost angry) recorded voice saying "this is your second warning that the factory warranty on your vehicle is about to expire." Of course, the factory warranty on my car isn't about to expire, and considering that I've received about 30 of these calls, it's difficult to believe it's the "second" warning. Apparently, I'm not the only one to receive these calls. An informal poll of friends found that more than 50% of them were all receiving the same bogus calls. While those already broke various telemarketing rules, it appears that the FTC is looking to further crack down, announcing that all pre-recorded telemarketing sales calls are banned without a signed, written agreement allowing the calls. Informational calls (non-sales calls) such as informing you that a flight has been delayed are allowed -- but sales calls are not.

Of course, the big question is whether or not the FTC will actually enforce the new rules and go after violators. Part of the rule change does give the FTC more leeway in going after those responsible for the messages, but until the FTC really does start shutting some of these operations down, you can bet they'll continue making the automated pre-recorded calls. I'm sure I'll be hearing about the imminent expiration of the factory warranty on my vehicle for some time.

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Filed Under: ftc, pre-recorded sales calls, robocalls, telemarketing

43 Comments

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AdamR1, 20 Aug 2008 @ 3:53pm

Rofl, I get those calls 3 times a day and dont't even have a car.
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Thomas, 20 Aug 2008 @ 3:58pm

They will just move..
They can just mve the call center out of the U.S.
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Ajax 4Hire, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:24pm

Once a month I get a Spanish speaking
Once a month I get a Spanish speaking male babbling on about what I should do for upcoming elections in the USA.

Burns me up wasting my time and money.
I have verizon and they will not block a once a month call.

I have real anger issues with machines talking to me.
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Yakko Warner, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:28pm

Debt collectors?
What about the pre-recorded calls from debt collectors? We must get a dozen or so calls per week for someone who has never lived at our home (and of course, when you speak with an actual person, they don't believe you), and it's been reduced to the automated "IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO CALL OUR OFFICE AT 1-800-XXX-XXXX IMMEDIATELY" message over and over.

(If it's so important, call me yourself instead of waiting for my return call, because it's not coming.)
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Ragaboo, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:33pm

Re: Once a month I get a Spanish speaking
I get the Spanish-speaking election guy, too. WTF is that all about? Anyone know?

And I also get the car-warranty one, as well. I actually do have a car and my warranty DID expire recently, so I figured it might be legit. Too bad I don't care about warranties expiring or they may have gotten me.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:34pm

Don't forget...
They left a loop hole and made sure political robo calls are still allowed.

This is legislation at its worse. It "does" what needs to be done, except puts so many exceptions that the law is useless. But because its already a law, yuou can't make it better easily.
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Ragaboo, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:35pm

Re: Debt collectors?
Geeze, I've gotten this one, too. Are these messages all scams? They all sure sound like it.
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Dam!, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:37pm

And I thought it was just me
I've actually stepped though their whole process to get a person on the phone.. Let them explain the whole thing to me only for me to say nah.. and stop calling me.. Every time I've done that. They do call like twice a day for the last 9 months. And they still do.. And every time I do and say the same thing.. "Dude.. Your wasting my time so I thought it would be fit to waste some of yours. Thanks for the call but not interested.. Until next time."
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Rangabee, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:57pm

DoNotCall
And when was the last time they enforced the Do Not Call list? I've started getting calls at dinner time again and have reported them to the FTC web site. Nothing ever happens, so why should the telemarketers even care?
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Nick, 20 Aug 2008 @ 4:59pm

why wait for the FTC?
Lol... something was up today because tons of people got these calls this afternoon. Since it's the 3rd or 4th time they've called me, I tried to find out from them where they're located. The guy who picked up confessed its an Arizona company called "Warranty Services," but quickly hung up when he realized I was grilling him and not interested in his scam.

Anyways, turns out plenty of people are already suing these guys:
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/250013
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MH, 20 Aug 2008 @ 5:04pm

Can we have the FCC outlaw Political ad calls and polls?
I'm on the National Do Not Call list and during election season, I get 10-20 pre-recorded calls per day from campaigns. They're selling s4it aren't they? Let's ban those calls. Anyone swayed by a 30 second call from some senator's daughter bragging about her dad deserves to have their voter registration card burned.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2008 @ 5:17pm

Al hates t-marketers
Several people I know have turned off the ringer and just check the messages several times daily. I am close to doing this myself.

Thanks to the D-Bags for ruining what was once a very useful tool.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2008 @ 6:01pm

i don't have a car either
and i get these calls around twice a week.

sometimes i even wait until they say the part about pressing two to be removed from the list, doesn't work.

i'm also on the do-not-call list, and have been for years.
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Stephan Kinsella (profile), 20 Aug 2008 @ 6:16pm

The government is worse than spammers and cold-callers and telemarketers
Of course, unsolicited spam, telemarketing, etc. can be viewed as a type of trespass (see my post, Causation, Spam, and Worms). However, the state is the biggest trespasser, and has no business regulating this area. It ought to be a private matter between the user and his ISP, telco, service provider. If his telco does not prohibit its other users (directly, or indirectly via inter-telco/inter-ISP agreements) from engaging in "spam", customers ought to put pressure on them to do so or vote with their feet. The FTC is worse than any spammer.
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Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, 20 Aug 2008 @ 6:26pm

Extended warrantys?
It must be profitable, or else they wouldn't do it.

Just consider how many stupid people out there pony up $100 a year to get a "Health Care Plan", "Prescription Plan" or "Dental Plan" and think it's supposed to work like insurance.
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Chris Corcoran, 20 Aug 2008 @ 6:57pm

I get them as well
I've received those calls. Actually, I've also received letters in the mail. Maybe they're two different companies. I actually called the number once when I had some down time to get them to leave me alone. They tried pitching a three year extended warranty for $4,000. I would still have to pay for annual maintenance and such. Totally bogus. The person kept trying to scare me into accepting the deal. All I did when he started saying that was hang up...
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Cornholio, 20 Aug 2008 @ 7:01pm

Never Will Stop
VOIP from India, and an FCC owned by business, mean we'll get these forever.
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David jones, 20 Aug 2008 @ 7:20pm

Re: Debt collectors?
Should not you be pursuing the option of paying your creditors?
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Versed, 20 Aug 2008 @ 7:27pm

Re: They will just move..
In or out of the country, the company causing this, can still be fined.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2008 @ 7:32pm

Re: Don't forget...
I'll vote for, Hell, I'll campaign for anyone of whatever (viable) political party who will ban automated political adds!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2008 @ 7:38pm

Re: Debt collectors?
Get a GrandCentral Line and forward all your calls to it. After a few weeks, make a nicely-formatted Excel Spreadsheet showing the calls.

Under FTC Fair Debt Collection Act, a creditor can only call once a week. At this point, it would be good to write a letter (or, better still, have a lawyer draw one up) and include your call log.

You'll have a very strong case in court too.
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Overcast, 20 Aug 2008 @ 7:41pm

Oh man - yeah, I get those stupid things too.
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dude, 20 Aug 2008 @ 8:12pm

I bet the folks at Boxpilot aren't to happy excited about this. http://www.boxpilot.com/
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Robert, 20 Aug 2008 @ 8:16pm

Waranty expire calls..
I have no less than 100 calls for the same damn prerecorded calls about my last chance to get a waranty because mine is running out...I am so mad I could scream....I have a 1999 dodge ram pickup, it is way past the waranty.If I were in the market for a waranty, I would never buy one from these criminals, they have harrassed me for too many calls. Today, I have had 7 of them, I have blocked 12 of their phone numbers, but they always have more to call me from and harasse me with a pre recorded crap. These people should be prosecuted for criminal harrasment, and for more than just jail time, they should have to pay dearly...
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2008 @ 8:48pm

Re: Re: Debt collectors?
David jones -> Should not you be pursuing the option of paying your creditors?

Yoda ?
Is that you ?
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random_texan, 20 Aug 2008 @ 9:05pm

I started copying what Tom Mabe does and just do a reverse prank call. Instead of calling someone and acting like a jerk, I let the guys call me and then waste their time. I am sick of the phone calls about warranty too but since the FTC probably won't do anything about it I'll just keep entertaining myself at work.
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ECA (profile), 20 Aug 2008 @ 10:32pm

30 calls is all you got??
Lets see, my record is 8 in 1 day...HOW THE HELL did you only get 30 total..
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yogi, 20 Aug 2008 @ 11:12pm

I see a business oppurtunity here
I wonder why we there isn't a spam filtering system for telephones?
Something like the gmail system where phone numbers are reported as spam by a minimum number of users and then filtered out.
Would this be technically feasible?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Aug 2008 @ 6:34am

I get that one too LMAO
"this is your second warning that the factory warranty on your vehicle is about to expire."

Yeah I get really scared the warranty on my 1987 Alfa Romeo is going to expire any day now LMAO . . . ?
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AJ, 21 Aug 2008 @ 7:14am

Service..
I've heard there is a service that you can get that has a recording pick up the phone and tells them to press 1 to ring the phone, or 2 to leave a messege, since a recording does neither, it basically stops them from leaving a messege or ringing thru.
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John Duncan Yoyo, 21 Aug 2008 @ 7:40am

Re: DoNotCall
>And when was the last time they enforced the Do Not Call list? I've started getting calls at dinner time again
>and have reported them to the FTC web site. Nothing ever happens, so why should the telemarketers even care?

The problem is that if you have ever done business with a company they have the right to call you with other offers under the DNC.

The ones that cheese me off are the ones that ring the phone three times a day and no one is there on the other end. I'd almost welcome a robocall from them so they would stop.

My answering machine gets everything unless I'm looking at the caller ID and recognize the caller.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Aug 2008 @ 8:20am

Re: Service..
No good, I get these calls at work and they dial my direct 3 digit extension to get to me. I laugh at the idea of my bosses 3 month old porshe's factory warranty expiring (his name is on the main number) then go back to work.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Aug 2008 @ 9:50am

More spam ...
Mike -> While those already broke various telemarketing rules

Yes, I thought there were regulations about t-marketing to cell phones. As I recall, it is similar to the ruling on spamming a fax machine. They are effectively stealing from you.

So why do the cell phone operators allow this to continue? Because it is not their problem and they are making $$. I suppose it is the DA or AG who should shut them down.
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oregonnerd, 21 Aug 2008 @ 11:03am

by the way...
Did I tell you the warranty on your web site has expired? This IS YOUR SECOND CALL!!!
--Glenn
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John (profile), 21 Aug 2008 @ 12:50pm

Ho hum
Okay, the story is fine, but the issue about how the FTC will make something else illegal is just ho-hum news.
Most people need to realize that a law is only as good as its enforceability. So what if it's against the law to call someone after 8:00pm or call them 30 times a day. If the caller hides behind a "000-000-000" Caller ID or doesn't say who they are, how can you file a compliant about them with any agency?

"Predictive dialers" (where a company has a computer call you and you hear silence as the rep on the other end is connected to the call) have been illegal for years. But, good luck prosecuting a company for it.

Junk faxes have been illegal for years, but companies still do it. Why? Either they know they won't get caught or the punishment will be a small fine (also known as a "cost of doing business").
So what reasons do telemarketers have to stop calling?
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Another Anonymous Coward, 21 Aug 2008 @ 12:58pm

Amusing way to fight back
If you have time with nothing better to do, you can inject a little FUD into the phone spam operation.

The robospam always gives you a number to press "to speak to a representative". That's some minimum wage or less schlub who tries to sell you their "product" and otherwise get as much financial and identity information as possible, so his bosses can rip off your CC or bank account.

So, press the TT number to "speak to a representative".

When they're taking orders for car warranty, just say, very slowly and stupidly, "But I wanted to order carpet cleaning. The call said free carpet cleaning".

Play around as long as possible, and always insist that the call was about something besides what they are selling. Ask if you can speak to someone who can "fix this problem". Maybe you can speak to a supervisor. If you do, play the same game.

Waste as much of their time as possible. Of course that depends on how much of your own time you want to waste.
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Derek Kerton (profile), 24 Aug 2008 @ 8:52am

RE Post #14
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Derek Kerton (profile), 24 Aug 2008 @ 9:00am

RE Post #14
and continuing my well formed arguments from post 37:

"The government is worse than spammers and cold-callers and telemarketers by Stephan Kinsella - Aug 20th, 2008 @ 6:16pm
...the state...has no business regulating this area. It ought to be a private matter...customers ought to put pressure on them to do so or vote with their feet."

Agree entirely!

And the government has no business regulating crimes like murder or theft. We should all simply put pressure on murderers and theives to not rob or kill us, and vote with our feet if they haven't been severed and interred. And we should each hire our own security staff that enforces our rules, instead of sharing a common police force that follows a common set of rules that they are so bold as to call "laws".

Let's privatize everything. Down with the government.

OR: dude, get a grip. This is exactly the kind of thing we need government to do. The 'townsfolk' should gather in the town square to agree that they hate SPAM calls, agree as a group to forbid, and entrust someone to enforce that decision. Societies, sadly, need laws or some bad apples will invariably cross our boundaries without recrimination.
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Barbara, 6 Sep 2008 @ 4:16am

Re: DoNotCall
The DO NOT CALL list is a JOKE! The Fed's sell your number to telemarkers the instant you sign up. You are FREE GAME for 90 days, at which time, they can no longer call. Ever wondered why after signing up for it you suddenly get MORE calls? This is why!
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Lucita, 23 Mar 2009 @ 10:07am

Re:
I just got a call too..& I have to pay for incoming calls from jerks on my cell phone. I get them on my cell...at work...Like I'm really going to buy any poice from unsolicited freaks calling on my phone! Pleazzzzzzzz!
the phone # was from (416)-523-1121...very annoying!
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any, 10 Apr 2009 @ 3:51pm

i get these
just about everyday.

since i don;t answer strange numbers most went to voicemail but then when it didn;t stop after month i started getting pissed.
you connect through and they ask for the make and model of your car.
i do not own a car and actually have never owned a car with a warranty.
you tell them to stop calling, ask who the company is and they hang up in you.

WTF!!!!

according to my cell they have multiple numbers. today it's 978-570-2245. tomarrow, who knows?

i reported it to fcc. apparently someone knows something weird is going on(azstarnet article) can't hurt to add.
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Pious Phone Girl, 14 May 2009 @ 11:08am

You Can Stop Them
By not being the nimrods who respond. Like spammers, they count on the 1% of the population who fall for their scam.

At work, I have to answer the phone. I hate these morons, and all the others like them. "Did you know the government is giving away free grant money" "Buy foreclosures in your area" "We're calling to let the owner know they qualify for a ($$) line of credit"

I press "1" to speak to an agent and try to waste ~their~ time for a change.
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r.binkly, 8 Nov 2009 @ 3:22pm

Alternative to FTC new voice broadcasting laws
FTC has changed the voice broadcasting laws starting September 2009. You must have written permission from the recipient before sending a voice broadcast message. The only thing I've found that can still deliver pre-recorded messages to voice mail legally, is a service called voicemail courier which makes it possible to comply with the laws. Its suppored by voicelogic.com, is the only legal substitute that can still deliver a pre recorded message.
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