Bus Company Tries To Shut Down Online Carpooling Service
from the why,-that's-illegal! dept
Carpooling is exactly the sort of thing that is perfect for a web app -- to match up potential drivers and riders -- but apparently it makes bus companies upset. A Canadian bus company has actually gone so far to try to shut down an online carpool matching service, claiming that it's illegal. The bus company actually had someone go and test out the carpool service, and has now asked the local transportation board in Ottawa to shut down the service. Their argument is that these carpools are unregulated, and the drivers are not licensed and don't have to follow the same regulations that bus and taxi services do. Perhaps that's a reason to re-examine the regulations rather than shutting down the carpooling service, though.
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Filed Under: carpools, lawsuits, protectionism, regulations
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It's hitchhiking
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Regulations
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Re: It's hitchhiking
It's just an advanced version of carpooling... No thumbs needed.
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Re: It's hitchhiking
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Blaming the Platform
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Stuff it "A Canadian bus company"
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Re: Blaming the Platform Again?
PickupPal gets none of the money from the carpool transaction (they used to, but not anymore). People are still going to pick up rides to events or cross-country. Think of the old bulletin board at college with offers to share gas money. No difference, just streamlined and efficient.
These guys are doing a good thing and aren't in the wrong. They don't force the carpoolers to charge anything, so how can they be responsible?
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Re: It's hitchhiking
Have you ever been on a overly crowded public bus? Think events, holidays, festivals, concerts and sport games. I have in Seattle, San Francisco & Los Angeles and it IS NOT pleasant. Body crushing against each other, some creepy person trying to touch you, gang or wannabe gang members threatening others and starting fights, stolen wallets ect...
Car pools AND public buses are the sane way to reduce highway traffic and pollution.
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Not Ottawa is Federal Gov but "City of Ottawa" .
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it can be abused
People trying to find a ride to anther state
People trying to find a ride to the airport
Giving away free / unwanted personal items (think Craig's List)
Even free social networking sites could fall under a similar unscrupulous 'law' just so that greedy companies can make or think they can make more money. I think the 'law' would do nothing more than increase road traffic, increase road rage and decrease the use of some services because people cannot afford to pay a fee. In addition, there are many jobs that are not accessible by public transportation and the lack of employees to fill the position would hurt businesses and the businesses servicing employees near they're work.
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Car pooling
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Re: It's hitchhiking
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Re: Re: It's hitchhiking
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Re: Re: Re: It's hitchhiking
For instance:
Texas
http://www.digihitch.com/usa95.html
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Bus isn't so bad, if it's adding value, and not a monopoly
How do you get transit to compete with transportation?
When the government focus is primarily on transit-oriented solutions, the quality of Transit tends to suffer, but a strategy that encourages carpooling and bus as equals alongside "plain vanilla" transportation has greater potential to lift the quality of both bus and carpooling options.
When competition and more options exist will transit options look to differentiation.
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Oblivious
In a related story, tool manufacturer Craftsman is being sued because their hammers can be used as bludgeoning weapons.
Give me a break. I'm getting tired of seeing, "Because it CAN do this, it MUST be illegal," argument.
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Claiming somthing like this is illeagle is daft. At least my program encourages taking the bus. So, I dont foresee any retarded lawsuits in my area.
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http://www.ontarioaccommodation.com/travelsafe.htm
Most cities and towns provide carpool parking near the on/off ramps to the major highways, and most cities and towns in Ontario not only endorse carpooling, but recommend it. Money may not always change hands, but regular carpoolers take turns - sometimes by the week providing the gas, car and driving service so it equals out in the wash.
It makes no sense at all that Ottawa would try to shut down a service that most other towns encourage, even if it is an online service.
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Re:
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Ah! Great Eye there! How has the company been doing? Any Scottish equivalent of SEC statements?
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Re: Re: It's hitchhiking
You might want to specify where hitchhiking is illegal instead of making an overly broad statement and calling someone else a name while doing it.
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"California Vehicle Code section 21957. No person shall stand in a roadway for the purpose of soliciting a ride from the driver of any vehicle." It's fine as long as you're on the sidewalk or off the pavement. You also can't hitchhike on the freeway, but that's only because pedestrians aren't allowed at all on the freeways.
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Re: Car pooling
CEOs and Republicans who stand competition are always looking for government protection.
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Whichever bus company tried to shut them down, how about some honest competition? Make people *want* to ride the bus, instead of forcing them to?
What happened to the world? (shakes head)
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Re: Re: Car pooling
"CEOs and Republicans who stand competition are always looking for government protection."
And we wonder why we can't have a civil dialog in this country.
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Re: It's hitchhiking
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Re: Car pooling
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The funny thing is that this company is whining and really devaluing their service, if they really think their service will be eclipsed by car pooling with a complete stranger then maybe they really don't have that much to offer to begin with.
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Clue Pooling
The bus company is not necessarily espousing Republican or Democratic philosophy, but is surely not Libertarian or Green. What's next, Ford bitching that the Mini Cooper unfairly competes with the Excursion, and that in a crash between the two, the Excursion is safer... Give me a break.
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What a drag.
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Exactly!
Note that I am not a student, and was already well past my student years when I discovered Allo-Stop, but I did travel in the company of many students on such trips, and in some cases the drivers themselves were students, and one was a recently graduated (i.e. former) student. They all say that the advantages to them are varied, from lowering their gas/toll expenses to making their long-distance trips less boring through the assorted company and conversation they get from participating passengers. As for the passengers, they get the savings, obviously, but they also do get to meet interesting new people, and sometimes they even benefit from non-standard departure/arrival times as well as numerous pick-up points, plus some possibility of negotiating custom drop-off points.
BTW, the Star article does mention that the Ontario provincial government already yielded to similar pressures to force the shutdown of Allo-Stop's provincial offices a few years ago. They used to have a few Ontario locations as part of their routes, but now they are limited to the Quebec province.
There is little doubt in my mind that this legal challenge has a good chance of succeeding (AGAIN), although I am pleased to read that PickupPal intends to fight this out. Owing to their small size, Allo-Stop probably could not afford to mount a legal defense, and so just gave up the Ontario market at the time (2000). The difference in government may or may not help as well, but on that we will just have to see...
Good luck PickupPal!
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Re: Re: Re: Car pooling
What wasn't civil? Disagreement itself isn't uncivil. Name calling, profanity, personal attacks, etc. are uncivil.
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The bus company no doubt expect that forcing small sites and individuals to follow the rules, licensing and insurance requirements put in place for businesses will amount to the same thing (shutting them down)
What's various peoples take on me sharing fuel costs with friends? As that's the logical conclusion of where you're going with this one. If a friend and I decide to drive 200miles to the same location and split the costs should I have to obtain special insurance and a license? I'd say that would be pretty insane
At what point is somebody classed as a friend? Can I make friends with someone online on a free website devoted to a common interest (say driving to Winnipeg) and then agree to split the costs?
The idea of a ride sharing website is a great idea and like 'Me' above says - If your bus service is so crappy that a car pooling website is serious competition, then the problem isn't the website... it's your bus 'service' (or lack of it)
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It's not the first time.
They were shut down as they were an unlicensed transportation company. Even though they didn't provide the rides, they were the booking agent. That's what caught them up. Providing the rides is one thing, they made money doing the bookings.
The new site just puts ads up so they're not getting the same treatment. The busses are running scared as it would take their key market away, people going to less popular locations. Just think, the "milk run" routes that visit the small towns (and the big cities) will lose ridership to people paying $30 for gas instead of $100 for a bus ticket.
Since airfare between major cities is comparable to bus tickets, the bus companies will lose their only real source of revenue.
And for those that think that ride sharing can be dangerous, so can getting beheaded on a bus.
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Re: Re: It's hitchhiking
It is not even carpooling, it is a taxi service, without regulations. There is no difference, and no doubt there are people using this service for a job, driving people back and forth.
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Re: Re: Re: It's hitchhiking
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That looked an awful lot like name calling to me.
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Re: Re: Re: It's hitchhiking
If it is illegal elsewhere it certainly isn't enforced, if any look at the Island Highway is an indication.
Where hitchhiking is illegal in BC is the same as any other activity on the highway that impedes the flow of traffic.
ttfn
John
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Re:
Even in Ontario the regulation against hitchhiking applies to the 400s and QEW where it doesn't apply to, say, the Trans-Canada as it winds its way over the top of the lakes from, say, Thunder Bay to Sudbury.
Each Province regulates hitching a ride differently.
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John
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No regulation
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Car pooling
"Name calling" refers to the use of derogatory terms. Which of the terms Socialist, Democrat, CEO and/or Republican are you considering derogatory?
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Where does it say people are doing this for the money? It seems people are doing this to cut their own costs - not the same thing
Seems a lot of people are ASSUMING people are abusing the service and using it to start up unofficial taxi services - wheres the evidence? If someone starts to abuse the service and does this, then (and only then) they are breaking the law
Not everything in this world needs regulating - if you come to my house and I give you a beer in return for something else should I be a licensed premises?
Face it - some of us are adults and capable of making decisions for ourselves - people using this service know that what they are getting is not a licensed, vetted taxi service and are OK with that. Why should they be forced to use expensive overcrowed services just because some others are only happy if everything in their lives is regulated and guaranteed? Why is it that just because they are not terrified of meeting people and of everything that could go wrong that they ae supposedly the ones with the problem?
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Re: It's hitchhiking
With this service you have a chance to talk to the person prior to offering/accepting a ride.
Also what gave you the idea that hitchhiking is illegal? In Ontario it is only illegal to hitchhike on series 400 highways. For further information refer to:
Linkage:
http://www.thumbsoutcanada.com/framesite/extras.html
http://www.digihitch.com/arti cle1448.html
Law:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#s 177s1
for definitions related to the above Canadian Law(s) (including "roadway") see:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#s1s1
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Re: Regulations
If bus companies and taxis, organized transportation providers, are required to to show proof that their drivers are capable, and their vehicles are well maintained, then I can see requiring the same thing for this organization.
However, it seems like it would make more sense for the bus company to fight the heavy taxes and other regulations that they are subjected to, to get rid of them, rather than try to impose them on others.
Just my $0.02 CAN.
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Re: It's hitchhiking
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