When Even The Simpsons Make Fun Of E-Voting Machines...

from the and-yet-we-still-rely-on-them dept

Fri, Oct 3rd 2008 7:33pm — Mike Masnick

Remember back when people first started questioning the reliability of e-voting machines? It was initially focused on Diebold, though later reports have all shown that Sequoia and ES&S are equally as bad. Yet, initially those critics were all brushed off by the e-voting firms as wild-eyed, conspiracy theory. lunatic activists. The only problem is that they keep being proven correct time and time again, and the story has certainly crossed over into the mainstream. If you need proof, look no further than The Simpsons recent clip about e-voting that a ton of you have sent in:

Clearly, the issue has gone beyond the "fringe" and into the mainstream. So, it's really too bad that judges seem to think that the public can't handle a research report on these machines.

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Filed Under: e-voting, mainstream, the simpsons

43 Comments

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I am not a crook, 3 Oct 2008 @ 8:38pm

Cover Up
Is this a cover up ?
Will the public ever be told the truth about these machines ?

Assuming this gets more media attention, it is highly likely that there will be a bad hollywood movie, I'm sure they will get the details all messed up.
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illegalprelude, 3 Oct 2008 @ 8:42pm

hahaha
Hey, this is what happened 2 elections back! Gotta love the Simpsons. This is going to be my first year voting and im gonna be pissed if my machine thinks im voting for Maverick. Thats a negative ghost rider, the pattern is full. Its time for a change and by that, I mean a change in the OS of these e-voting machines...
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MAtt, 3 Oct 2008 @ 10:10pm

beware
Beware truths that begin with, "everyone knows that..." And The Simpsons (one of my all-time favorite shows, mind you), has pretty much become an ad for the democratic party. Sad, really. Witty, intelligent humor has turned into obvious partisan jabs. And the uneducated (@illegalprelude) use it as a truth basis.
While I wouldn't be shocked if e-voting machines were faulty, I'm confident in neither the public or the media to handle the facts in moderation.

@illegalprelude - don't mistake a really close election with voter fraud.
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illegalprelude, 4 Oct 2008 @ 12:18am

I dont want this to be a political thread as there is a time and place for all that but do a little digging, the 2000 election was not won by majority vote because majority vote went to Al Gore and im pretty sure he isnt president but funny the person who decided happens to be from the Bush camp....

but thats crazy talk because Simpsons rules.
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 4 Oct 2008 @ 12:59am

Re: beware
MAtt wrote:

Beware truths that begin with, "everyone knows that..."

Do you have a reference for this? Or is this just one of those things that "everyone knows"?
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Liz, 4 Oct 2008 @ 3:17am

Assuming this gets more media attention, it is highly likely that there will be a bad hollywood movie, I'm sure they will get the details all messed up.

'Man of the Year' starring Robin Williams.
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pat donovan, 4 Oct 2008 @ 4:15am

voting
to the tune of crime of the century..

and they'd blame the saucer-people if they could.
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Steve R. (profile), 4 Oct 2008 @ 6:30am

Reading American Culture
An unappreciated "proof" that we have achieved an "excess" is when shows such as the Simpsons and the lowly commercial begin to make fun of things such as e-voting and so-called intellectual property.
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JLE, 4 Oct 2008 @ 7:41am

Link unavailable.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2008 @ 8:22am

Re: beware
"The Simpsons (one of my all-time favorite shows, mind you), has pretty much become an ad for the democratic party. Sad, really. Witty, intelligent humor has turned into obvious partisan jabs."

Oh no...that darn liberal media! Where is Hannity to protect us and tell us the truth!

It's still witty and intelligent humor. There isn't anything wrong with a show making fun of the GOP. They probably think they're a bunch of aholes like most of the country does at the moment.
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SVR, 4 Oct 2008 @ 9:13am

Voting Machines
I propose a simple solution....Ask for a paper ballot or get an absentee ballot.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2008 @ 10:10am

lol loved the Ohio reference... but should be Florida! :)
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comboman, 4 Oct 2008 @ 10:46am

Re: beware
And The Simpsons (one of my all-time favorite shows, mind you), has pretty much become an ad for the democratic party. Sad, really. Witty, intelligent humor has turned into obvious partisan jabs.
So back in the 90's when the Simpson's made fun of Clinton's womanizing, did you think that was intelligent humor or obvious partisan jabs?
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos, 4 Oct 2008 @ 11:12am

Majority vote?
...the 2000 election was not won by majority vote because majority vote went to Al Gore...
US presidential election is not decided by direct majority of the popular vote, so what is your point?
If you have to blame anybody on the fubar that was the 2000 election, blame Nader and Buchanan for their lack of faith in America's 2-party system ;)
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2008 @ 11:57am

Re:
Read the right side of this article and it'll tell you why Gore lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2008 @ 1:34pm

Election TV ads = Time sensitive
Dan Cohen at Publicis should use his pull to get the
Maytag Voting Booth Commercial over to Youtube. It will create a lot of buzz.
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Steve R. (profile), 4 Oct 2008 @ 1:55pm

Wrong
It was a misplaced shot by Bender of Futurama fame.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2008 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re:
Here's another good one.
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MAtt, 4 Oct 2008 @ 3:51pm

Re: Majority vote?
If you have to blame anybody on the fubar that was the 2000 election, blame Nader and Buchanan for their lack of faith in America's 2-party system
Vote for a third party candidate? I'm not throwing away my vote! [from a Simpsons Halloween special]
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MAtt, 4 Oct 2008 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: beware
Example:
Clinton telling Marge that it was a law that he had to dance with her was completely ridiculous and funny ("I'd change it if I could. Really, I would. What? Aw, shoot, looks like Canada's got the bomb..."). Homer saying he wanted to punch George Bush in his "stupid monkey face" was neither witty or funny.
In general, characterizations of Clinton were (and still are) really absurd and funny, as were those of George H. W. Bush. Jabs at George W. Bush were/are taken straight from left-wing talking points.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2008 @ 6:16pm

bad movie? Did you miss Robin Williams in Election Day? I wish 3rd parties had a chance.
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PJ Brunet, 4 Oct 2008 @ 11:03pm

Common Sense
Once electronic, so much easier to tamper with. If you want an honest vote, count by hand, then double count, and create incentive to count correctly.
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Bhaktha Keshavachar, 5 Oct 2008 @ 4:38am

India uses voting machines
At the outset I confess I don't comprehend all the intricacies (political or technical) with e-voting in USA, but what really surprises me is that India has been using e-voting for a while now. With all the problems that we have e-voting has silently and efficiently streamlined the massive electoral process. My 80 year old parents and the barely literates (like the auto/taxi driver) here are quite comfortable and seem to have taken it as normal !

The only "big" problem was that when tallying the votes from each machine, the voting patterns come to be known with not so good consequences ... The manufacturer has come up with a simple solution wherein many voting machines are ganged together and then counted as a whole in one operation.

The machines are fairly low-tech (no Windoze !), reliable and cheap to produce.

So ... the obvious question. Is there something to be learnt from this ? (please refrain from comments like Americans are rich (we know that), stupid (not entirely true) ...)
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Scott Lithgow, 5 Oct 2008 @ 5:17am

Manual Count
I wonder sometimes what the accuracy figures are for a manual count so to put the others in perspective?
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Steve R. (profile), 5 Oct 2008 @ 6:49am

Re: India uses voting machines
Every voting system (paper, punch cards, electronic, etc.) is subject to some form of fraud, so the question becomes, which voting system is subject to the least fraud?

One, question overlooked in this debate occurs before we even get into the voting booth. Is that person even eligible to vote?

To me the problem with the e-voting machines is that e-voting machine manufactures want to overcharge the public and use proprietary software.

On the issue of cost. I don't know if we have a real competitive bidding process or not.

On the issue of proprietary software. The public is paying for and using these machines, the code should be in the public domain. Period, Period, Period.

There is nothing magical about e-voting. As you point out "The machines are fairly low-tech (no Windoze !), reliable and cheap to produce." Too bad the concept of e-voting been blown out of proportion.
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Paresh, 5 Oct 2008 @ 8:18am

Gret character
Bart Simpson, great character
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Brad Eleven, 5 Oct 2008 @ 9:40am

Re: Ohio ... should be Florida
Florida was the 2000 election, where the fixers were obvious.
Ohio was the 2004 election, where it was far more subtle.
If only they'd have appointed competent people instead of rewarding fundraising experts, they might have perfected it in time for the 2008 election.
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Peter Thomas, 6 Oct 2008 @ 2:11am

Re: Re: Re: beware
Did you see the episode where Fox News was on the Simpson's TV?

Ticker headlines included: "Oil slick found to make seals supple and more healthy... JFK posthumously made a Republican hero..."

Far more witty than a jab at Clinton's womanising.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2008 @ 2:15am

Re: Re: Re: beware
It seems Matt needs our help. A while back, he said he has to capitalize his name at work, which is why he said his entire name was usually in all caps. MaTt was a habit he's trying to break, and we're almost there. So let's help him break it and make MAtt patches or maTT patches or something, because MAtt wants to be Matt, or maybe Matthew. Nut today, someone may mistaken him as MatT. Matty Mat Mat. Who wants to make MAtt into a doorstep MAtt? No One! Let's root Matt on as he becomes just plain ol "Matt".
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MAtt, 6 Oct 2008 @ 6:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: beware
That's a great example of witty anti-republicanism. But not witty anti-"W". But I digress.

The "MAtt" thing is a type-o I frequently make, which I have leveraged to help identify me from any other Matts.
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Overcast, 6 Oct 2008 @ 6:41am

I refuse to use these machines - if they are all that's available when I go to vote, I will claim they are not giving me an acceptable method of voting and I am 'disenfranchised'.

I'll make a pretty big scene about it too.

TITLE 42, CHAPTER 20; SUBCHAPTER I-A > § 1973i

"(a) Failure or refusal to permit casting or tabulation of vote
No person acting under color of law shall fail or refuse to permit any person to vote who is entitled to vote under any provision of subchapters I–A to I–C of this chapter or is otherwise qualified to vote, or willfully fail or refuse to tabulate, count, and report such person’s vote. "

There are clear questions about the ability of these machines to tabulate and count the votes, correct? Even Diebold has admitted to it.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Oct 2008 @ 6:46am

Till skimming
Now with electronic tills, it's easier to skim money. They just use software on the till to change the count to whatever they want it to say:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/technology/30zapper.html?fta=y

Voting machines are no different. This is why they need a voter verified paper audit trail and a random check on the voting machines to catch any fraud.
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chris (profile), 6 Oct 2008 @ 7:30am

lawlz
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks

diebold accidentally leaked the results of the election a couple of months ago.
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hegemon13, 6 Oct 2008 @ 8:17am

Re: Re: India uses voting machines
It's not just that they are open to fraud. It's that there is no way to expose the fraud, unlike a paper ballot.
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Justin, 7 Oct 2008 @ 10:54am

Re: Man of the Year
And that was a great movie. For those who missed it Robin Williams plays a talk show host who, as a lark, runs for president and gets on the ballot in about 12 states needed to win (CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH, MI, GA, NJ, NC, & MA which equals ~271 electoral votes). Because of a bug in the software in the machines, he gets elected. When it is pointed out to him that the reason he won was because of faulty software, he decides not to accept the election results and refuses the presidency. To believe any regular politician would follow this same course of action, however, is as funny as this movie was.
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Anonymous Cowherd, 11 Oct 2008 @ 7:20am

Video link is broken
The link to the YouTube video is broken. Please correct the link.
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Another Planet, 12 Oct 2008 @ 7:13am

The SIMPSONS
"The Simpsons" writing has been un-funny and lame for several years by now. A pale shadow of the show's former brilliant glory.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2008 @ 9:09am

Re: The SIMPSONS
And the relevance to this is what? Oh, you're just being pretentious because it's the internet. Gotcha, no need to explain further.
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orbitas, 27 Oct 2008 @ 3:07pm

Copyright violation
Youtube says:

"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation"

Anyone has a copy of the video clip?
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Lou, 4 Nov 2008 @ 9:54am

Re: Re: Re: beware
its called karma. he deserves everything and anything that he gets, no limit!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Nov 2008 @ 5:54pm

Re: hahaha
FYI-it;s not a conspiracy and the Simpsons are actually Republicans.
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Wang, 21 Mar 2009 @ 2:06pm

Forever in infamy
There is bad news about George Herbert Walker Bush:

What if basically all racial-minority people would subscribe to the interpretations that George Herbert Walker Bush committed monstrous, racist, hate crimes while he was the President of the United States?

It will eventually come out: it is only a matter of time.

Respectfully Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang, J.D. Candidate
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993

(I can type 90 words per minute, and there are thousands of copies on the Internet indicating the content of this post. And there are at least hundreds of copies in very many countries around the world.)
_________________
“If only it were possible to ban invention that bottled up memories so they never got stale and faded.” Off the top of my head—it came from my Lower Merion High School yearbook.
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