Want To Know Just How Bad Security Is For E-Voting Machines?

Transparency Schmancparency: Bailout Payment Details Blacked Out

from the this-will-end-badly dept

Tue, Oct 21st 2008 10:17am — Mike Masnick

With the financial bailout process under way, our main fear was that the government would royally screw up, often by handing out favors to friends, rather than focusing on what actually needs to be done to get the economy moving in the right direction. To counter that possibility, one thing you heard repeatedly was that there would be unprecedented "transparency" in how the government conducted this. Transparency here is important. In fact, a big part of the reason we're in this mess in the first place was that banks consistently obfuscated the details of various deals, in order to hide the risk levels. That caused banks and others to buy hugely risky assets, believing they weren't that risky. So, is the government really being transparent?

Of course not.

The folks over at Planet Money note that the first contract awarded under the bailout, with Bank of New York Mellon Corp. just so happens to have the compensation details to Bank of New York Mellon redacted. If anyone is going to trust the government in handling the $700 billion, how much it spends and how it compensates the various banks that take part in the process clearly need to be open. Otherwise this is a huge opportunity for cronyism and corruption. To start out by blacking out the compensation details is quite troubling, and it doesn't exactly bode well for how transparent the rest of this process is going to be.

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Filed Under: bailout, openness, transparency
Companies: bank of new york mellon

57 Comments

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NeoConBushSupporter, 21 Oct 2008 @ 10:52am

Get used to it!
You were kidding yourself if thought Nancy Pelosi or Hussien Obama were going to let you see the details of their “great government giveaway”. What you people have forgotten in your orgasmic zeal for the messianic Obama, is that socialism doesn’t answer to the people. Questions have been lingering around this campaign since the beginning, questions about anti-american sentiment, connections to Aires, Wright and other domestic terrorists, questions about a fundamentalist Islamic background, etc etc etc. You techdirt hippies, like the rest of liberal elite media, are too afraid to be called racists to push for answers . Unless you people wake up, you will soon be living in an afro-centric, islamo-facist, commi-socialist America!

VOTE McCain 2008 – He won’t distribute any wealth, that’s a promise you can take to the bank!
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damn strait, 21 Oct 2008 @ 10:57am

WOOT!
Thats it. WOOT! Go McCain. Barry will not have the Whitehouse.
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angry dude, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:00am

Ha Big deal
The government is totally screwed up
I can tell you stories you won't believe, oops, I'd better not...
This country is going down
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Vukovar, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:02am

I don't know what's worse.....
The blatant ignorance of some of the Republican party supporters, or the fact that they get to vote.
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Sean, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:07am

Neither is the best choice
To Vukovar

Neither candidate is truly doing it to help out the people. They (McCain and Obama and most of the politicians in DC) are both arrogant and self-centered. Truly honest politicians do not last long in DC because the money is there for the taking.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:07am

Re: I don't know what's worse.....
You mean the Democrat controlled congress?

Come on, are you so blind to think that only one of the parties is causing this problem? They're both filled with corrupt crooks.
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Vukovar, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:12am

Re: Neither is the best choice
I agree with that - it is tiring each election time to have to decide on the lesser of two evils, knowing fully well that once they get elected, their primary responsibility becomes "to get re-elected." Just as the stump speeches - last I checked, Congress was the responsible party for passing legislation. It's disheartening to see people fall for the same thing.

What's distasteful is the first comment. It reminds me of the rabid McCain fans you see on TV saying "kill him", "terrorist" and so forth. On the bright side, at least the author is capable of demonstrating their ignorance, racism and stupidity so there's hope.
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Shroom Demon, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:17am

Trust no one
It is not the government’s place to BAIL anyone out, not BIG biz, and not SMALL biz.

If they could not manage their own money then they should fail. Just like the money paid out to the families of the twin towers. While tragic, it is not the governments place to pay out money.

McCain will not help either he is just as bad as the others. There is no current candidate that will bring this titanic out of the depths it is about to sink.

Back to the basics I say, is it in the constitution? Does it violate the constitution? Don’t do it.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:21am

Saw it coming
As soon as Bush was up there saying we need it and we need it now, that was the first major red flag that it should be avoided at all costs and that there are FAR better plans available.
We all know how he loves throwing our money at his friends.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:26am

Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
You really need to check your sarcasm meter, re NeoConBushSupporter. Reread the signature....
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:26am

Re: Get used to it!
Eh!!!

I thought the bailout package was created patriotic, republican and anticommunist Bush!
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:28am

Re: Saw it coming
And we all know that democrat's friend, Freddie and Fannie, got us into this mess. Why don't we check to see who has received the 2nd most campaign money from them. Oh I see it was Obama.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:28am

Re: Re: I don't know what's worse.....
They are all crooks once they reach the National level. Our political party system has ensured that. We need campaign finance reform to put an end to our legally corrupt federal government.

Now the question is, can we get "our" representatives to regulate themselves? Sadly, at this point, it may take another revolution for that to happen.

Maybe one day we the people will wake up together and realize that this is not about black vs white, muslim vs christian, this is about rich vs poor and the rich trying to get out of paying their fair share.
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Re: Get used to it!, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:29am

Benjie
"[...]afro-centric, islamo-facist, commi-socialist America[...]"

islamo-facist: We live in a facist country already where we think we can bomb other coutries. USA is one the of the hated coutries around the world

commi-socialist: Obviously free market doesn't work

"He won’t distribute any wealth, that’s a promise you can take to the bank!": Sweet.. now we can all remain poor while the upper-upper-class can walk all over us.

Is there a reason why Japan has 1gig-internet for $50 a month and I can't get cable internet with 10mb for under $60?

is there a reason why my friend went to ireland and EVERY pub out in the middle of no where had huge 56" plasma tvs and we're years behind the curve for digital tv

is there a reason why some countries have 3 months off of paid vacation AND they can afford more luxuries than us?

free market has failed

a middle ground is best.
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bob, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:34am

And The Cure For This Is?
Ron Paul
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greatwhiteshark, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:34am

Re: Get used to it!
i hope you are a satirist and im just making myself look like an idiot for posting this...

if you have forgotten already, your very own bush (and mccain) were both publicly huge supporters of this bail out bill (mccain even tried to delay the debates in order to 'push the bill through'). bush practically threw a hissy fit when it got shot down on its first run through the house. the only reason many republicans did not vote for it the first time wasn't because it was a crappy bill, or the underlying ethics of the bill were wrong, but because there were not enough underwritings in the bill that helped them or the corps. in their corner - which the senate added some of the requested ones and the bill passed with no problems. to lay blame on the eventual failure of this bill on either party alone is the biggest form of ignorance there is, and the real way america needs to 'wake up'. because the reason it will fail is the same reason we need it in the first place: a corrupt government. you have just been blinded by your affliations to not see this and, in turn, continue to accept, and even support, a broken system. you have even been trained by the republican party to look and yell at the democrats while they sweep their trash into the corner, just as democrats pull the same trick on their supporters when they need to remove something they dont want you to see.

and do you think obama would be the first racist to be in office? the rest of your claims are just conflicting and silly so i wont even refute them.

good day sheep
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
"What's distasteful is the first comment. It reminds me of the rabid McCain fans you see on TV saying "kill him", "terrorist" and so forth."

I guess you missed the part that no one ever said that at a McCain rally. It was made up.
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Vukovar, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:37am

Re: Re: Saw it coming
Please. Wall Street engineered the laundering of the loans by chopping them up into small pieces and then repackaging them. It's history repeating itself, just like the S& L bailout, and once again the taxpayers are taken to the cleaners. Transparency? Sure. Let's meet back here in what - 6-7 years to discuss the need to deregulate the markets, banks and lending practices because the current oversight (ha) is to restrictive and is curbing economic growth. I'll take my chances with an unknwon candidate any day over more "compassionate conservatism."
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:39am

Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
it wasnt made it. it happened at a palin rally.
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Vukovar, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
That's odd - I seem to remember watching that on BBC TV, hearing the same thing on "From Our Own Correspondent", and the ABC news, and then the NY Times. Then there were all those clips played on network TV with people shouting that with Palin standing at the podium. Believe it or not, there are other media outlets besides Fox news.
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Kiba, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:46am

Re: Benjie
Do you realize that you're talking about corny capitalism rather than the free market?

If you didn't know, the fed control banking in this country. The fed also grant monopolies left and right.

Let not forget that farmers get subsidy from the government.

And don't forget that the Federal bank lower the interest rate to a ridiculous low level.

So yeah. Socialism AKA corny capitalism does sucks.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:49am

All I have to say is watch the new movie from ZEITGEISTMOVIE.COM
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Saw it coming
I will never understand you people.
Just because I highly dislike Bush you assume I am a democrat. I do not dislike all republicans, but thank you for assuming so.
To say it was all Freddie and Fannie seems extremely closed minded too.
Oh, and way to not even respond at all to my actual statement that Bush cannot be trusted and is an idiot.
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Joe, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:57am

Re: I don't know what's worse.....
Well i can't say democrats are any better than republicans. Although I'd really hope people would stop calling Barack a muslim because 1) It isn't true, and 2) why is it said with such disdain?

A person's ethnicity doesn't tell their life story. If you look at half the super rich kids in America, you know the white kids who's parents are never around. They are just as screwed up as some religious zealots. Just in different ways.
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Joe, 21 Oct 2008 @ 11:59am

Re: Re: Get used to it!
Neither party is fully to blame for any of America's problems. the real issue is the corruption of the overall government and the infighting which makes it so nothing gets done.
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Benjie, 21 Oct 2008 @ 12:07pm

Education
Just make a board of the top 100 most respectable researchers in economics/politcs who teach for a living but have no political ties because they hate both parties and want change. Give this group marshal power as long as they're unanimus with their choices.
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Vukovar, 21 Oct 2008 @ 12:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Saw it coming
I agree - Bush is and idiot and cannot be trusted. To have one President with such an egregious list of wrongs is a black mark on this country. Unjustified war in Iraq, an unwinnable (by military standards) war in Afghanistan, support of a dictator in Pakistan and when that failed, unrestrained drone bombing of tribal areas with high civilian causalties (which leads back to the resurgent Taliban). Suspension of habeus corpus with Guantanimo Bay detainees, an economic morass at home, croneyism abounds with military contracts, and then whine and complain that the world doesn't respect us anymore. It's not hard to figure out why the US is in decline - it's unfortunate that we've allowed it to happen.
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Jeff, 21 Oct 2008 @ 12:33pm

Re: Benjie
"[...]is there a reason why some countries have 3 months off of paid vacation AND they can afford more luxuries than us?[...]"

I'm curious where this place is. Sounds like a winner to me.

On another note. Everyone keeps hyping the current financial problems as a capitalism fail. It's been a long time since we were a capitalist nation.

The tricky thing about capitalism is that once you insert socialist structures the backbone of the system weakens and the only way to prop it up is with more socialist programs.

I don't necessarily have a problem with socialism or capitalism or even a combination of the two. But lets not rest these problems on the back of capitalism when socialism is equally at fault.
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Benjie, 21 Oct 2008 @ 12:40pm

re: Jeff
"But lets not rest these problems on the back of capitalism when socialism is equally at fault."

I blame greed.. :*(

The hardest thing to get rid of. Like they say, the only people who make it far in politics arethe people you don't want running things.
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Charlie, 21 Oct 2008 @ 12:55pm

As Sartre said,"Hell is other people." Why doesn't everyone just die?
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Benjie, 21 Oct 2008 @ 12:55pm

re: Jeff Again
"[...]is there a reason why some countries have 3 months off of paid vacation AND they can afford more luxuries than us?[...]"

I'm curious where this place is. Sounds like a winner to me.

I forget which countries, but there area few European countries where there's a 3 month paid leave.

I had both an economics teacher tell me tails of these places and his travel abroad to see people loaded with the newest technology and tons of time off with 6 hours work days that don't start until 10am. And the nation was making positive incoming from exporting more than importing

Also, friends who did semesters abroad that touched base in several European nations. they said school didn't start until 12pm, ended around 4pm. Late night lifes, which is why school starts at 12pm. Every kid and their mom had cell phones which were high end $400 phones. Bottled water costed upwards for $6.

I guess they said a lot of people asked how Americans work so much and have so little money.

Ma'b all this wealth comes from a decent public transportation and few people with cars..?

why my friend came out with is They work to live, we live to work.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
It was a bogus story. I swear, tards on the left will believe anything the mainstream media spouts.

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfo unded_.html
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31593_Video-_Obama_Bashes_McCain_with_a_Bogus_Story
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 1:14pm

Re: re: Jeff Again
"Also, friends who did semesters abroad that touched base in several European nations. they said school didn't start until 12pm, ended around 4pm. Late night lifes, which is why school starts at 12pm. Every kid and their mom had cell phones which were high end $400 phones. Bottled water costed upwards for $6.

I guess they said a lot of people asked how Americans work so much and have so little money."

This has got to be one of the most uninformed, retarded posts I've ever seen anywhere. First off, they sound like lazy morons with more money than brains to me. Secondly, America is considered one of the richest nations on the planet, how is it we have "so little money"???

Thanks for dropping everyone's IQ by 10 points today. FAIL
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 1:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
If you could only refute the hatred that Palin and by proxy, McCain spout forth; unfortunately you can't. That's what is so worrying about a McCain/Palin presidency - the lunatic fringe of the right. There are plenty of examples of hate-inspired comments made and yet you want to defend it.
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Chuck, 21 Oct 2008 @ 1:23pm

Re: Get used to it!
Its this type of simple mindedness that blinds the real truth.
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Bruce Barlow, 21 Oct 2008 @ 1:43pm

Bailout transparency/lack off
Does anyone expect anything different from this administration? We have had nothing but smoke and mirrors, and an incredible amount of dishonestly masked as misintepreted information.
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CastorTroy-Libertarian, Lover, General Annoyance f, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:00pm

Re: I don't know what's worse.....
Both side has its ignorance, and I become afraid everytime one of them opens their mouths... but please acknowledge the democrats are just as bad...if not worse in some cases (PETA).cough cough...
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re: Re: I don't know what's worse.....
Groups of people in the form of corporations are just as dangerous as groups of people in the form of the poor masses.

The thing that made the US different was the lack of control one group had over another group.

Our current political system is a myriad of controlling each other and people are disillusioned in to thinking that if *their* interests were in control, everything would be fine.

We need to destroy the systems of control we have over each other. Crime and regulation are control structures that need to be minimized.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:19pm

Re: Get used to it!
How convenient of you to ignore the actual facts.

Perhaps in your zeal to be masturbate to pictures of Sarah Palin, you forgot that it's the Republicans who are currently in charge, and administering this bailout.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's not forget Mr. McSame's relationship with G. Gordon Liddy or Charles Keating. And Mrs. Palin's relationship with the Alaska Liberation Front.

And please explain exactly how a white man, voting for a black man, is racist?

I can tell you this: When the afro-centric, islamo-facist, commi-socialists take over, you'll be at the top of our list of targets. Fucktard.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
You're delusional. We've all seen it on tape, and I've seen both McPain's and Failin's reactions -- none. "Kill him" and "terrorist" and "traitor" were all shouted out at one time or another.
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Benjie, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: re: Jeff Again
Atleast I cited my sources.. :p

hear-say/etc

All I'm doing is relaying what my friends witnessed over a 6 month period traveling and my econ teacher who lived in europe for several years claimed the same thing.

I know there's a huge lack of statistics, but there must be 'some' truth to someone with a PHD and his life experience only be be reafirmed by my friend's travels.

small samplings != average
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Neither is the best choice
More cognitive dissonance. Facts be damned, you just go on believing what you believe! Tards on the right will believe anything they make up, even if it flies in the face of facts.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Benjie
Aha, an economic genius. Please, Mr. Genius, explain how SOCIALISM caused this unprecedented collapse of our financial institutions? Did they give all the money to you, so you can buy a brain cell that works?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2008 @ 2:34pm

It's those pesky Canadians' faults!!!!!!!!!!!
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Steve, 21 Oct 2008 @ 3:24pm

Re: Get used to it!
Wow, you're retarded.
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FiscallyResponibleObamaSupporter, 21 Oct 2008 @ 3:30pm

Re: Get used to it!
You mean the "Great Government Giveaway" That was jammed down congress's throat by Dubahya.. the one he threw a fit about not passing the first time. The one republicans voted for once it had more pork in it for them. The one that McCain stopped his campaign to go and vote for? That!.. GGG? is that the one were talking about?... Hmmm Thought so...

Oh and instead of imaginary terrorist ties = Ayres why not bring up a real terrorist tie
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/

But you right wing zealot neocons are to racist to take the blinders off and realize that your trickledown philosophies are destroying this country!

VOTE Obama 2008 - He wont make the rich richer while you loose your home!
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another mike, 21 Oct 2008 @ 3:54pm

for my fellow cultists
Vote Cthulhu this November. Why settle for a lesser evil?
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Dude, 21 Oct 2008 @ 4:29pm

Re: Benjie
The free market hasn't failed at all. It's doing exactly what it is supposed to do. What too many observers misunderstand about the current economic meltdown is that this credit crisis not the fault of unfettered capitalism. It demonstrates, in fact, the absolute best thing about capitalism.

It is the absolute punishment of stupidity and greed, and the triumph of thrift, innovation, creativity and focused ambition. Bad ideas are doomed to fail, and the mortgage securities racket was clearly something that could not possibly sustain itself when idiots gamed the system in the delusion that they could beat it. The Invisible Hand can slap you silly if you don't pay attention to what is going on around you.

A free market means that there are winners and there are losers. It is the bailout that is the enemy of the free market because it rewards the losers and punishes the winners (the people who minimize their debt and try to maximize their savings).
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Enrico Suarve, 22 Oct 2008 @ 3:48am

Re: Get used to it!
Dude - you still crack me up

Happy trolling and peace ;0)
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Enrico Suarve, 22 Oct 2008 @ 4:00am

Some details of the top bonuses
Hi All

Sorry to depress y'all but this was in the Guardian in the UK a few days ago

I can't believe no one in the US is reporting this - actually yeah, yeah I can, forget I said it

Anyways looks like 1/10th of the $700Billion has so far been allocated to executive bonuses

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/17/executivesalaries-banking

Oh and before you all go partisan on each others asses - remember this was a republican bill supported by Obama AND McCain

My advice (for what it's worth) - vote with your conscience , tactical voting is pointless when there's so little difference between the main parties anyway
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Twinrova, 22 Oct 2008 @ 4:01am

Once again, there's surprise?
Bailout + government = disaster. It's simple math anyone can understand.

Remember I stated I wrote both Indiana senators on their reasons for passing this bill? The responses I received were canned. Just the typical "we needed to do something" blurb which basically came down to "I did it because I care more about business than I do you, stupid constituent."

If you want to read their reply, let me know. I'll post.

Otherwise, this news shouldn't shock, upset, or surprise anyone.

Because behind it all, if anyone here thinks the bill will stop at $850 billion, you're a fool.

I wish Americans would wake the hell up and learn how their government works. Instead of voting for the idiot who kisses babies, vote for those smart enough not to pass bills like the big bailout.

And to those who turned this into a political debate: If any of you vote for either candidate, you're a moron.

Neither are worthy of a vote by any American.

Mike: Any reason there's no edit feature?
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WAVERUNNER, 22 Oct 2008 @ 4:51am

see how transparency works
To see how transparency works we need to look at previous expenditures of government aid.
just look at the government bailout for Hurricane Katrina.

114 BILLION DOLLARS
$114,000,000,000.00 was the amount of money committed by the government to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number, what does it mean?
A. Well, if you are one of the 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man, woman, and child) you each could have gotten $235,210. 1,337,762 residents = $85,217
B. Or; if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans, the government could have purchased your home for $605,574. 556,234 homes = $204,950
C. Or; if you are a family of four, your family could have received $940,840. 4x$85,217 = $340,868
The statistics for New Orleans are hard to determine so I have given you the low and high numbers, I am guessing its somewhere in-between.
This was in lieu of any insurance payments. All of the people in New Orleans could have moved to higher ground and away from the coast decreasing the cost of future disasters.
Now, was anyone in New Orleans asked what they would like to do? The government has not handed out all of this money as of yet.
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CastorTroy-Libertarian, Lover, General Annoyance f, 22 Oct 2008 @ 5:21am

Re: Benjie
Trade your rights and responsiblities for a yoke and become the beast of burden you are..
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2008 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Get used to it!
When a white man votes for a black man because he's a black man, that's racist. So long as you're voting for Obama because you agree with his views and feel his plans for the Nation will improve things, you should be OK.
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Ombama OWNS YOU, 24 Oct 2008 @ 5:45pm

Re: Get used to it!
Yeah but he's going to kick McSame's ass right outta town. Democratic Super-majority FTW!!
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new monetary movement, 30 Oct 2008 @ 2:34pm

demopublicans and republicats
people need to see through the left/right paradigm.
This is how they keep us arguing over small things. The fact is we are the new Weimar 9/11 was our Reichstag, the CFR Rand Corp and other groups are all part of the NWO.
A dream througout history, from Rome to Germany to the EU, to the AIU, to the AU the league of nations, Eisienhower warned of this people, we have no republic we have no democracy, why argue, we are under MARTIAL LAW.
Read through the board, this is a way to seperate us and all the while they move in a steal more of our rights.
Learn to grow your own food, get off the grid and Fluoride.
The next two years are going to be scarry.
We should watch Nov. 22nd and early Febuary, more flase flag events. The Rand Corp is pushing for a WWIII the CFR wants it, our military industrial complex wants it, you sheep will want it too when you are lied to again and believe that the government, either side, is on your side.

Why can't you people wake up, many of you are claiming this that or the other about your side of government.
How come no one is saying, Hey Ron Paul called ALL of this when we were star struck with the Kenyan Obama and Awe struck at the shell shocked McCain, by the way, Vietnam was staged, look up Gulf of Tonkin, see that it was ALL a LIE.
OUR government lies to us to get what they want. man I want to help everyone see all this, but more than likely you will rad this, get scarred for a minute and then, poof, a beer commercial or ad for the next football game flashes on the screen and off to sleep you go.
good night
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