As Expected, Prostitutes Move Elsewhere After Craigslist Change

from the good-job-doing-nothing dept

Mon, Nov 10th 2008 12:48pm — Mike Masnick

We pointed out how little sense it made for various state attorneys general to force Craigslist to charge for the "erotic services" group. It would appear that at least 40 states' attorneys general are not chess players, because they only were thinking one move out. That is, they thought: "Well, there's prostitution happening via Craigslist. Let's stop Craigslist from allowing that." But, of course, they didn't bother to think of what would happen next: which is that the prostitutes would scatter to numerous other sites, meaning that the amount of prostitution would continue pretty much unabated, but it would be more scattered and much more difficult for police to track down and stop. You would think that the folks in charge of such things would recognize that the way you stop crime is by going after the actual criminals, rather than the tools they use.

So, what happened after Craigslist implemented the change? Exactly what you'd expect. Ed Kohler checked it out and noticed (as you'd expect) that the number of ads on Craigslist's erotic services dropped significantly, but the number of ads elsewhere jumped up somewhat (including some on Craigslist's "Therapeutic Services" -- suggesting that some are trying to skirt the new charging system). Kohler only looked at one other site, so it may look like the increase in ads isn't that big -- but if you add up a variety of similar sites, you can bet that it's quite likely that in total it added up to quite a lot. It's just that, now, it's a lot more work for police to actually monitor.

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Filed Under: attorney general, liability, prostitution, richard blumenthal
Companies: craigslist

51 Comments

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Ima Fish, 10 Nov 2008 @ 12:54pm

Prostitution is one of those crimes that prosecutors and police are concerned about only when people are bitching about it. If the police can drive prostitution out of the public's view, the police have done their job.

This is as true on the net as it is in a city. If residents of a particular area complain about increased prostitution, the police will crack down pushing prostitution somewhere else. Problem solved.
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I am not a fish..., 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:02pm

Visibility
Law enforcement have chased prostitution for as long as it has existed, and guess what? It continues unabated. I realize that laws only have purpose when they are enforced, but prostitution is like mercury, it will always move where the pressure is least.
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Anon Cow, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:20pm

What sites did the pros move to? It's not for me. My wife is out of town next week, so I wanted to use the free time to track increases in ad volume since the CL crackdown.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:30pm

Lets legalize prostitution, charge tax. Government money increase, and make some people happy...
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Teilo, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:32pm

Regulate it
I am opposed to prostitution on moral grounds. I also believe that criminalizing prostitution is idiotic.

Law enforcement has not chased prostitution as long as it has existed, contrary to what one poster has said here. For most of recorded history, prostitution, even in Christian countries, has been an industry that law enforcement regulated, but did not ban.

Nevada gets it right. Regulate it. Confine it to certain locations. Regulate it's advertising. Remove the public health risks as much as is feasible. Pass laws preventing the exploitation of sex workers.

This will have two effects: Girls who turn to prostitution (something that will always happen) will have a place to go where they will not be exploited by pimps and drug dealers. Johns will have a place to go that is legal, thus drying up much of the customer base of the pimps. Consequently, prostitution will no longer be the nuisance it presently is, and the police can redirect their enforcement efforts where it is needed, instead of wasting tons of money on prosecuting what, in every state, is a misdemeanor, rather than a felony.
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Greg, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:38pm

Re: Regulate it
Agreed. Ditto for recreational drugs.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:39pm

Exibit A
Ladys and gentlemen I give you exibit A that those AGs know absolutely fukol about the internet.
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GeneralEmergency (profile), 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:43pm

Does anyone in law enforcement THINK?
"We pointed out how little sense it made for various state attorneys general to force Craigslist to charge for the "erotic services" group. "

Epic Fail.

Now if the AG's were REALLY on the ball, they would have had just urged Craigslist to require the word "Donut" in all posts in the 'Erotic Services' category, thus ensuring plenty of ongoing Police attention.

Ah yea. That felt good.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:43pm

You would think...
You would think that the folks in charge of such things would recognize that the way you stop crime is by going after the actual criminals, rather than the tools they use.
For a second, I thought you were talking about gun control laws not working.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:43pm

You would think...
You would think that the folks in charge of such things would recognize that the way you stop crime is by going after the actual criminals, rather than the tools they use.
For a second, I thought you were talking about gun control laws not working.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:46pm

Re: Does anyone in law enforcement THINK?
Outdated stereotype is outdated.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 1:59pm

I would think that law inforcement would actually encourage sites like Craig's List. At least the prostitutes wouldn't be soliciting on the street corner or in the Men's rest room. Oh sorry, that's a different Craig's List!
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I am not a fish..., 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:09pm

Re: Regulate it
Fine, you got me. What I should have said was that prostitutes have been chased in the West about as long as we have had modern law enforcement, depending how you define that. By the High Middle Ages 1000 to 1300 AD) there were European towns that prohibited prostitution within the city walls. So, law enforcement has been chasing prostitution for about 1000 years.

Nevada treats prostitution much like societies in the Middle Ages did (prior to the Protestant Reformation, after which prostitution was generally outlawed in Protestant countries).
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hegemon13, 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:19pm

In other news,
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hegemon13, 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:21pm

In other news...
The cities have begun charging for access to certain downtown street corners and mandated cover fees to bars known to allow prostitutes to operate within. That'll stop 'em, for sure!
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dude, 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:31pm

craigslist has escort listings? Sweet!
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Lucretious, 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:40pm

The push to remove the ads ended up forcing a lot of the girls back on the street which only caused quality-of-life issues for residents and a general rise in crime (and lets not forget STD's). Most women who advertise on Craigs build a small clientele, insist on protection from their clients (condoms etc) and give those who wish to use such services (widowers, etc) a respite from the shame and embarrassment society often places on them for trying to fulfill a basic human need.

Of course Jesus and Allah don't approve so every politician gets on his soapbox and spews the same tired rhetoric as to why prostitution is such an "evil" blight on society. The fact that it involves two adults who do things in the privacy of their own residences is an annoyance they'd rather do away with.

FWIW Craigs has stopped trying to remove ads. Also, the providers have simply tailored their ads to coincide with Crags posting guidelines. They can still get a message across without being blatant about it.

by the looks of it, Craigs just paid the politicos the lip-service they wanted for a few weeks and eventually everything is back to normal.
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jonnyq, 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:51pm

Everyone wins
Everyone wins. Police proclaim their accomplishment, craigslist has less fear of prosecution, and prostitutes still have their business, and the public's fears are abated.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 2:56pm

Sooo...where did they move to? :)
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Banshee, 10 Nov 2008 @ 4:23pm

Re:
I don't know who you are Anonymous Coward, or whether you are male or female. You are always on the dime. I love you! LOL in a very nice way
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crystalattice (profile), 10 Nov 2008 @ 9:17pm

This only affects "legitimate" prostitutes
The prostitutes posting to Craigslist obviously have a computer, Internet, etc. Unless they are a streetwalker posting at a library, this would indicate that the prostitutes using Craigslist are your middle-class ones, the ones who have a house, car, etc. and probably even have some college education.

Assuming this is true, then these are the ones who are doing it for the money, the excitement, or some other reason than they have no other choice; essentially they are the type to work in a brothel rather than hang out at bus stations and street corners. They do it because they choose to, not because they have to.

In that sense, I don't see what the problem is. As Lucretious said, they practice safe sex, do it in the privacy of their house/apartment, and are generally providing a service that people need/want.

Vice laws are some of the worst ones on the books and are a waste of tax dollars, police work, and judicial time.
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Eldakka, 10 Nov 2008 @ 9:22pm

Re: Re: Does anyone in law enforcement THINK?
Outdated stereotype is outdated.

Maybe it should be muffins now?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2008 @ 11:19pm

Wow, Craigs List has hookers? Web Sex point O.O.O OMG!!!
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Paul, 11 Nov 2008 @ 1:18am

Your View is Short Sighted
They aren't chess players? Only one move at a time?

Stopping prostitution is like trying to stop the rain, and the powers that be realize this. You can, however, separate it from popular and legitimized sources. When there is one large central location for such services to be bartered, it is easier for a consumer to find such services.

Yes the prostitutes scattered to multiple smaller sites, which would make it more difficult for police to crack down on individuals, but it also makes it more difficult for consumers to find the services they are looking for, which in turn cuts down on the amount of services rendered. This can be executed multiple times.. If taking prostitution from Craigslist spawned 3 smaller sites, then take out one of those other sites causing it to spawn 3 even smaller sites... the more scattered it becomes, the less online prostitution will happen.

If you can't understand how taking "Whores" out of the yellow pages will greatly reduce prostitution then I don't know if there is any hope for you, Mike.
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Peter, 11 Nov 2008 @ 1:44am

What is the point
Well perhaps if they cannot find prostitution on the internet as easily as they used to, they will seek other ways to obtain their gratification. Maybe they will take a trip to Nevada. Perhaps they lack the means and go crazy with need and rape someone.

The "moral" grounds with which people justify these laws against prostitution is incomprehensible to me. Most of the excuses they use to justify such laws were the result of these very laws.

I would love to hear what exactly is so immoral about prostitution, because so far, I haven't been able to figure it out.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Nov 2008 @ 2:00am

Re: Your View is Short Sighted
"If you can't understand how taking "Whores" out of the yellow pages will greatly reduce prostitution then I don't know if there is any hope for you, Mike."

If you can show a single solid piece of evidence to back up that little lie, you might actually be able to change his mind.
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chrisdoe, 11 Nov 2008 @ 7:29am

Politicians
They really don't want to stop prostitution, they'd just like to find a way to tax it. If we stop it, what would alot of politicians do for entertainment? Look at how many over the years have gotten caught up in it.
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Lucretious, 11 Nov 2008 @ 8:24am

Re: Politicians
They really don't want to stop prostitution, they'd just like to find a way to tax it.

if that were the case they could just do whats done in northern Europe and create some standards...registration, mandatory blood testing, mandatory protection etc. Allow massage parlors but only in specific areas where it won't devalue property (ie industrial parks etc). States can levy a minimal tax. We all win.

To me, this all falls back to mainly indirect christian involvement in governmental affairs since I've yet to hear any rational argument to keep laws the way they've been. And, as much as I respect them, the police are to blame as well. They know full well the futility of trying to control the prostitution "industry" yet they keep backing inane useless laws rather than come out as individuals on the front line and state just how much of a failure its all been. It reminds me a LOT of the "war on drugs". Year after year they choose to lock up addicts rather than push to make it a medical issue rather than a criminal one. Why they insist on following such a parochial attitude in matters like these is beyond me.
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Ryan, 13 Feb 2009 @ 2:20am

Yup, I was looking at the Moonlite Bunny Ranch's website and can't understand why so many states think streetwalkers and pimps are better (I know it's simply that legislators don't want to talk about sex workers at all unless they're railing against them.).

If brothels were regulated, inspected, and taxed it would turn so many dangerous streets into honest working districts. Women will sell their bodies no matter what laws are made to stop them and men will always pay. Government should respect this universal truth.
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jon, 18 Feb 2009 @ 4:08pm

Well the erotic sevices is alive and healthy today take a look, make such a big deal why don't they talk abou those erotic newspapers outside of liquor stores, take down craigslist, backpage pops up you see the never ending result, prostitutes do a good deed for society, what about that 40 year old virgin or guys who can't get laid who have no game.
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oop, 6 Mar 2009 @ 7:16am

dart
odd dart got no time to look in his jail and stop the weirdos sex under his nose
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The Obama Scam, 19 May 2009 @ 6:43pm

Freedom for Sale
Has ANYONE noticed that the very same AGs who are agreeing to Gay Marriage are the same ones trying to oppress Craiglist?

Has ANYONE noticed how the so-called President of Freedom is actually pushing the same tactics as Bush on the dumbfounded American populous???
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Anon, 13 Feb 2010 @ 6:00pm

Re: This only affects "legitimate" prostitutes
Uh, ever consider that it isn't the girls posting the ads? I have experience with this, and it isn't usually the girls-it's the pimps posting the ads saying that they're the girls. There was even a case of a pimp kidnapping a girl, keeping her tied down in his basement and guess how he got customers? He posted ads saying that it was from the girl. So yeah.
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Who's Business, 13 Dec 2010 @ 1:39pm

So this is a crime why?
I guess it's a crime because by its nature, it is difficult to tax and we all know that nothing happens unless big brother gets a cut. We all know too, that the religious right gets their panties in a bunch every time sex is mentioned without their blessing. The way it stands now, prostitution is dangerous and highly exploitative of women. Legalize it and tax it along with pot. I don't indulge in either but it's not my business if you do.
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Ann, 24 Dec 2010 @ 3:07am

Re:
True
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Jon, 14 Feb 2011 @ 6:06am

Re: Regulate it
Amen.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 12:15am

Re:
And give the money to somebody who thinks like you and screw it all up. fuck your self man, where did your money or "tax go???
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Helpful, 11 Mar 2011 @ 2:16pm

Where to look now.
Try backpage.com
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LawMan, 15 Apr 2011 @ 6:08am

Re: Regulate it
I couldn't agree more.
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Page Himmel, 22 Dec 2011 @ 9:16pm

Lots of Hookers
I saw a bunch of hookers on localtricks.com
You can search by city or zip cod, pretty cool
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Joey This, 26 Feb 2012 @ 8:15am

Response to: Ima Fish on Nov 10th, 2008 @ 12:54pm
This is very true. First they were on craigslist until pressure was on there. They then moved to backpage, until again the pressure came. Then Eros, and now http://www.bettiepage.me . The law, as well as society, needs to realize that as long as it remain tabboo and illegal in most areas, these people will continue to move around. If they would legalize it and monitor it then they would have a little more control over the whole issue.
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Joey This, 26 Feb 2012 @ 8:18am

True, they'll just keep moving from place to place.
This is very true. First they were on craigslist until pressure was on there. They then moved to backpage, until again the pressure came. Then Eros, and now http://www.bettiepage.me . The law, as well as society, needs to realize that as long as it remain tabboo and illegal in most areas, these people will continue to move around. If they would legalize it and monitor it then they would have a little more control over the whole issue.
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tess e b, 18 Mar 2012 @ 10:03pm

i thought that was the excuse for agencies running the drug trade?
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sickofit, 20 Oct 2012 @ 6:06pm

Seems some people have done zero in the form of research.....where there are prostitutes there are other forms of criminalistic behaviors... when I discovered my mate had involvement in this entity my life flipped over! Phone hacking, computer hacking, internet harrassment, ID theft, etc... all done by the organization behind the prostitutes... the new founded cyber pimps. Often these "girls" work in shifts normally 6 per household. Recruitment has also been suggested to be the stage for human trafficking and child pornography is a commonality in the national level investigations that have been on-going since 2010. I am definetly in the crowd of public outrage that Craigslist... or anyone else.... condones and enables this on-going bowl of crap. Make the misdeameanors a felony, bring charges against anyone who promotes or contributes to these activities inclusive of Craigslist. It's comparable to allowing dope dealers advertise. It is all against the law and there should be no wishy washy attitudes about it's presence in our society.
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sickofit2, 20 Oct 2012 @ 6:09pm

Re:
ITS ORGANIZED CRIME AT ITS BEST FOLKS.....
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veronica Castro, 24 Nov 2012 @ 8:11pm

Stop trying to regulate, ban, criminalize and tax every freaking thing in this country! As long as the employment, hookers prostitutes, is voluntary, brothels provide a distinct advantage in securing the safety of the sex workers and should be used the standard model.http://www.hookersprostitutes.com
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Anonymous Cowardz, 8 Jul 2018 @ 10:29pm

Keep it illegal, popo are good at their job but obviously dont care about cracking down, they are just removing a tool of people who get laid on a regular basis because they pour their lives into their jobs and dont get laid at home themselves. Sure, they are pissed because we are getting some when they cant because their wives are cunty little bitches who dont put out, but lets look at the positive, they dont do their job well so the prices of connection are very low. IF its regulated price of connection would be much higher.
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the past, 12 Mar 2019 @ 9:27am

Re: Re:
No fuck you.

I wonder what will happen in 10 years or so when men in general get even more fed up with the #MeToo bull shit that's going on these days. Hopefully something violent like slavery or genocide of women.
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the past, 12 Mar 2019 @ 9:33am

Re: Re: Regulate it
Agreed. Regulate drugs and prostitution. America needs more of both.

But since Americans are so dumb, this wont happen for a long time.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2020 @ 1:28pm

Re:
Lol. No. This is what keeps cops, judges, bondsman, parole officers, probation officers, COs and the whole rigmarole in business... blue-collar crime.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2020 @ 2:38pm

Re:
A person is free to do with their body as they please. It doesn't matter whether you think it's right or wrong. It's none of your fucking business.
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