Online Carpooling Service Fined For Unregulated Transportation
from the how-dare-you-ride-with-someone-else dept
One of the great things about the web, obviously, is that it allows for much more efficient communication that opens up new and useful offerings. For example: the web offers the ability to find other people traveling to the same general place you're heading and to set up a convenient carpool. It's good for the environment. It's good for traffic. It just makes a lot of sense. Unless, of course, you're a bus company and you're so afraid that people will use such a system rather than paying to take the bus. That's what happened up in Ontario, as earlier this year we wrote about a bus company that was trying to shut down PickupPal, an online carpooling service, for being an unregulated transportation company. TechCrunch points us to the news that the Ontario transportation board has sided with the bus company and fined PickupPal. It's also established a bunch of draconian rules that any user in Ontario must follow if it uses the service -- including no crossing of municipal boundaries -- meaning the service is only good within any particular city's limits.It's better than being shut down completely, and the service can still operate elsewhere around the world, but this is yet another case where we see regulations, that are supposedly put in place to improve things for consumers, do the exact opposite. Just like we've seen elsewhere, you get regulatory capture, where an established industry uses the regulations not for their intended purpose, but to actually drastically limit the competition.
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Filed Under: carpool, ontario, regulations
Companies: pickuppal
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though in all honesty, pickupPal should have checked with the transportation laws first and have already had a loophole ready for such a situation.
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The USA has no sole possession of the word "America".
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How does having lived in Europe give you experience to know that Canadians have the american attitude?
Shouldn't you have lived in both Canada and "america" to come to such a conclusion? Or does living in Europe give a person such a solid grasp of all human behaviour that they can make claims about the people in all other countries on the planet?
Having lived in Canada for several years, I can say that you're a moron.
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Re: Re: Re:
When someone says America, they mean the USA. That's a de facto standard that everyone else in the world uses, other obstreperous little wankers like you who think they're being smart when in fact they're just showing their ignorance.
I'm guessing that you're American (or following your logic, United States of American) and you disparage the great white North (also not a continent). Go back to having sex with your sister, electing shaved monkeys into your highest office and leave the debating to people with more brain cells genital warts.
Good day sir! I SAID GOOD DAY!
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simple mistake, stop being a jerk
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which includes Mexico and Canada
and many
other countries
inside central and south America.
From Tierra del Fuego
to Canadian Internal Waters
God bless America
my home sweet home.
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ontario is in canada.
though in all honesty, pickupPal should have checked with the transportation laws first and have already had a loophole ready for such a situation.
so every website has to check all of the laws in every country in the world before going live? that sounds fairly prohibitive.
perhaps what website operators should do is incorporate through a series of shell corporations and tax havens so they cannot be sued or shut down.
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In 2000, Allo Stop, a website with the same service was shut down using the same excuse.
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So, before you go and say things like "Ontario is in Canada" you should make sure there aren't any Ontario's in America.
Besides that, the comment above yours was more directly clever, and didn't need to be repeated.
On checking laws.... Being forced to read all the possible laws, is not prohibitive - It's impossible.
On opening incorporating through shell corporations and tax havens - Now you are just being silly.
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Ontario California
Transportation is inevitably run at the state/provincial or federal level in every country that I know of.
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Which is basically US Jr.
Joking aside, this is really sad and considering the drivers aren't payed by the PickupPal I don't see how it can constitute as an unregulated transportation service. Someone could set up a free forum with the same purpose. The only reason its an "issue" is because its a company organizing it instead of a community.
So much for innovation.
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This is the stupidest abuse of power I have seen in a while. I am not sure how the Canadian system works but in America municipal bus services typcially recieve federal funding as an incentive to decrease traffic. Canada's federal government should stop all funding for Ontario.
You mean like online gambling sites? Nah, it wont work, Kentucky will just seize the domain names.
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However....
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Ridiculous classification
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Montgomery Bus Boycott
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Re: Montgomery Bus Boycott
I would love for you and similiar individuals to comment more often. You have genuine, as well as, relevant information to give. You also amnge to do it without belittling someone who may/may not agree with you. Thank You.
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Re: Montgomery Bus Boycott
Cheers - Eric
PickupPal
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Re: Montgomery Bus Boycott
Truly shocking, I couldn't believe it when I read about it. I suppose there is some justification for having guidelines as to what constitutes public transportation, but man! Talk about unintended consequences to a poorly written law.
Good luck Eric
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Proposterous
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Re: Proposterous
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Re: Re: Proposterous
Dilbert, learn to copy-paste proper nouns if you can't reproduce 'em properly. Also, just because the public transportation in Ashok's country may not be up to the mark (I'm not saying it is, or isn't), doesn't mean he cannot comment on the story, eh? Common sense dictates that anyone in the world with a modicum of sense in their noggin would see that there was an obvious injustice done in this case, so what's with your smart-ass comment re. his country, eh?
Stop being so narrow-minded and regionally chauvinistic.
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Asok
Whoosh! as the joke flew over your head. Let me explain: Asok is an intern character in Dilbert comics.
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Re: Asok
Care to comment, or would you enjoy people making fun of your name with irrelevant statements?
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GET A GRIP!
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In Connecticut, USA
Interestingly, I looked into NuRide for my commute, 25 miles each way, and it was much more economical to take the bus at the State subsidized rate than it was to drive my car two - three days per week at $4 per gallon. I haven't done the breakeven at $2.40 per gallon, the current local price of super unleaded, but I still suspect that once I add back in parking, maintenance & depreciation the bus is still cheaper and almost as convenient.
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Re: In Connecticut, USA
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"America"
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Re: "America"
You are amazingly wrong.. Western Europe is hardly "the rest of the world". You will find that in South America when people say "America" they generally refer to the entire continent.
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True but we are the only country with America in our name. And when people refer to the general Americas it's always North, Central, or South America. Also, people who live in the States aren't called United Statesians, they're called Americans. Unlike other denizens of the Americas who refer to themselves as Canadians or Mexicans or Bolivians. So referring to the US as America both makes sense and is common practice.
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American Samoa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Samoa
:)
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wouldnt that include any sites that could organize a group of people looking to carpool such as yahoo groups, facebook myspace and the like?
Is canada really ready to shut down any website that people use to find a ride?
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Not convinced
Anyway, to be fair, pickuppal is making money from its advertisements and their agreement does get into the details of how fees are handled between parties. I think this makes it more of a service and less of a "communication platform" despite their claims.
I could see how a court could fear for the safety of a person using the service. It's a perfect platform for a predator.
Here's the boring agreement:
http://www.pickuppal.com/pup/legal/Membership-Agreement-June-24-2008.pdf
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Oooops
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More to this story
I was a regular user of a similar service (mentioned above) run out of Quebec called Allo Stop. Pre-internet days you could get a cheap ride anywhere they had established service at about a quarter of the cost of the bus or less. Also great for drivers who wanted help with gas - all very professionally run.
Towards the end of the run, however, there were some drivers who were abusing the system. A couple of trips I took, a driver would show up with an ancient passenger van (no seatbelts) and load it to the rafters with people.
A van such as this (I believe working for a competing service) crashed on the 401 (i.e., main highway) between Toronto and Montreal, litterally spilling it's contents on the road and killing several passengers.
Sure, you could argue the people could have seen the van was a safety hazard and refused to get on, but when you're broke, or made plans and have to get somewhere fast and on the cheap, you roll the dice - I did.
The bus companies had been grumbling about these services for a while, but this accident gave them the ammunition to make the powers that be pay attention. That same accident was probably also a factor in this latest decision.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/09/20/ott_essor000920.html
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Re: More to this story
Obviously the buses are unsafe, and we should all be carpooling.
There's no merit to the bus company's stance at all. Knee-jerk reactionary bullshit is what it is.
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What the OHTB really said
DaveW.
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This is BS
As said above, this is not a transportation service, it's a means for people to group up and travel together.
Buses are crap.. you have to go when the bus goes and if they're late they never tell you.
For anyone that spens 2.5 hours per day sitting on the 401 in the GTA knows that we need less cars on the road and more car pools. Isn't that part of the reason they put in the car pool lanes on the 403 and 404?
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Insane
All that the web site should have to do is adequately inform the public that they are making transportation arrangements at their own risk with private individuals and that the transportation is not covered by provincial transit regulations. This is like the CRTC telling me that I can't manufacture T-shirts.
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Country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country
:)
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Almost as stupid
Rather than changing the business models to comply with the technology and habits of today, the industries of yesterday use the law to preserve their current modus operandi at the expense of ordinary citizens.
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This is BS!
Currently PVA states:
“car pool vehicle” means a motor vehicle as defined in the Highway Traffic Act,
(a) with a seating capacity of not more than twelve persons,
(b) while it is operated transporting no more than twelve commuters including the driver, none of whom pay for the transportation more frequently than on a weekly basis,
(c) that is not used by any one driver to transport commuters for more than one round trip per day, and
(d) the owner, or if the vehicle is subject to a lease, the lessee, of which does not own or lease another car pool vehicle unless the owner or lessee is the employer of a majority of the commuters transported in the vehicles,
THIS IS THE LAW! The rest is BS those winers came up with :-P
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Re: This is BS!
One of our members went from Toronto to Montreal and picked up an under cover private investigator hired by the bus company. The total cost of the trip to go door to door - $60 - total distance over 300 miles. Was he running an illegal bus? - nope he was in a Chevy blazer with his 11 year old daughter sitting in the back seat. They were on a trip to the east coast to visit family. What did our member do wrong? He crossed municipal boundaries and charged a fee. The amount of the fee is in consequential because the board has ruled in the past even compensation as little as buying a coffee would be deemed illegal.
If you want more info - send me an email - eric@pickuppal.com.
Cheers - Eric
PickupPal
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unfortunately... this is not new.
ps. if anyone is really looking for carpooling boards, check out craigslist & kijiji... they're free. and nothing can stop these online boards!
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This is really stupid ...
Now Canada shows the world how it's done. Nevermind fairness or commonsense: just hire a lawyer and try to get the stupidest charges to stick. Who knows ... you may find a clueless transportation board and you're in the money.
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who cares?
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Re: who cares?
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regulations
However the court made a ruling based on the evidence presented and the law. The ruling can be appealed.
Now suppose this never came to litigation. Suppose an accident occurred and a passenger wanted to bring an action against PickupPal. Now PickupPal becomes the big guy and the passenger becomes the little guy. Who will you support then?
Regulations are put in place after all concerned parties have stated their cases. These regulations can be adjusted and amended as new information arises. This is the nature of our legal system.
So, while it is important to have a healthy economy through enterprise and a healthy environment through sharing resources, we have to abide by the regulations that we, ourselves, have accepted. Ignorantia juris non excusat can have many implications.
If the rules are felt to be wrong, they must be changed. And changed through action.
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RoadSharing.com
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