Rockstar To Use SecuROM DRM On Grand Theft Auto
from the not-smart dept
Given the incredibly negative reaction that many video gamers have been giving any video game that uses the rather draconian SecuROM DRM system, you would think that most video game companies would think twice about using it. Yet, apparently, Rockstar has decided to move forward in using it on the PC release of Grand Theft Auto IV. It won't be quite as draconian as Spore in that there won't be a limit on the number of installs, but the whole thing makes very little sense. The DRM won't stop the game from being pirated -- and once a single copy is available, it will be available everywhere. While Rockstar also claims that cracked copies will have some hidden easter eggs that make the game somewhat unplayable, it's quite likely that folks will figure out ways around those changes as well. In other words, it's not actually going to stop any piracy, but it may serve to annoy legitimate purchasers. So why bother?
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Filed Under: drm, grand theft auto, securom
Companies: rockstar games
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Well, that saves me $50...
SecuROM is an automatic deal breaker for me. I can understand companies wanting to protect against casual copying but this is the wrong way to do it.
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Re: Well, that saves me $50...
Yeah, I can understand companies wanting DRM, just like I can understand people wanting slaves. But understanding it doesn't excuse it.
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Re: Re: Well, that saves me $50...
You're confusing copy protection with DRM. The two systems have some similar concepts behind them but are actually very different in how they're implemented.
The thing that copy protection systems should do and, at one point, actually did, was prevent friends from copying games for each other. Honestly, would your average Joe even know that doing that is illegal? Highly doubtful. People don't read EULAs.
I have no qualms against CD checks, product keys, and similar protection mechanisms because they actually do have a hope of protecting against things like this. Like I said, I can certainly understand why something like that is in place. You could argue that it's easy to find a crack, but the people that it's designed to stop generally wouldn't know where to look or, for that matter, how to get everything working. Long story short, copy protection works for what it was designed to do.
DRM is a different beast. Rather than simply being prevented from copying the media that the software comes on, DRM requires you to contact the company to unlock the software. You cannot use the software without permission and that permission can be revoked at any time and for any reason, remotely. If software is designed to phone home repeatedly, the publisher can choose to kill installed copies of the software at any time. Due to the install limits that most DRM "solutions" enforce, you can't even loan your original CD/DVD to a friend like you could with copy protected media.
The way I see it, copy protection is about protection while DRM is about nothing more than control. Each method is equally effective at stopping piracy (i.e. not at all) but at least the former doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.
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Re: Re: Re: Well, that saves me $50...
Going strictly by definitions, I'm not sure how comprehensive/accurate it is, nor do I care.
What you have explained though is why many people strongly oppose activation/limit based DRM, yet completely understand the need for publishers and developers to protect their product (copy protection).
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when literally thousands of your customers tells you unequivocally that they will NOT purchase your game if you use a certain app in your software you should probably listen to them.....
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So they're going to hide "Easter-Eggs" within cracked copies, how long before a copy comes along with these easter eggs removed? Probably happen before the initial launch. How long before the hundreds of people using the easter egged copies start spamming amazon and other review sources to say how muggy the PC version of the game is and start to reduce real consumer confidence?
Seriously this could cause more harm to Rockstar than not releasing the game at all on PC, but I guess all they care about is the bottom line and not those of us in the line to buy.
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Tripple DRM
So if you buy this via Steam, thats three sets of username and password to remember. Where will the madness end?
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/29/the-many-doormen-of-gta-iv/#more-5609
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Re: Tripple DRM
This DRM would be circumvented with a phone call to "Nameless DRM TechCompany". where 24-hour a day, heavy-accented Keyboard Jockeys provide emergency back-door activation codes as a result of a class-action lawsuit lost in District 9 Circuit Court. In such a D9 case, it would be re-established that when you buy music/game/software, you purchase rights to playability and with that comes portability, and DRM limits that ownership ability (duh).
But whatever.
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Even worse, they're doing it on Steam!
Steam had a shaky start, but people forget Valve had to suddenly find a way for games to be hosted online for free when WON (ATT provided means of finding games for Half Life and its expansions/mods) went down. It has matured *considerably* over the years and they are quickly gaining more and more game studios.
Anyways, even though Steam has built in DRM, they're including SecureROM. So way to go Rockstar, you just cost yoruself more problems. People tried that (Bioshock anyone?) and had to make a patch to remove the SecureROM later because of all the problems.
Whoever approved this needs to get canned.
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Re: Even worse, they're doing it on Steam!
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A few isn't going to stop the sales to prevent future DRM.
The video game industry keeps shooting itself in the foot, causing them to hobble now. More companies are laying off employees due to poor sales, and I'm sure they'll scream "piracy" in these layoffs.
What I find interesting is gaming companies continue to whine about the cost of gaming, despite growing prices per game. Most gamers would agree that graphics, while nice to look at, doesn't mean much when compared to how the game is played.
Since most of the game is spent designing stellar graphics, I can only surmise it's their fault the costs continue to rise. If Nintendo has proven anything with its virtual console, it's that graphics just don't matter.
Games like GTA become successful because of the mechanics, not the graphics. Maybe if gaming studios would take a few steps back to designing, maybe they'll see a profit?
Of course, with DRM, in-game advertising, microtransactions, and outrageous game prices, they'll only see their current direction as a bad one, then wonder why they're not making money (which NPD can quickly denounce).
It's no secret that one stellar title pays for the not-so-stellar titles. Halo didn't become successful because it looks good. It achieved this status with its online play capabilities.
The worse part about all this is those small studios, who make great games, end up closing their doors, leaving companies like EA to continue screwing over customers.
Chalk one up for another industry which doesn't understand its market because the dollar signs cloud their judgments.
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No DRM
The game makers are just trying to get the most money on the first day.
But I know for a fact that a good game will sell for months. so no DRM would be better.
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A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
Perhaps your of the mindset that you could care less that Rockstar took heat over something it was absolutely innocent of doing. But still that doesnt address the problem. Unless people offer up an alternative rather then a chorus of boos, I doubt Rockstar (or anyone else) will pay much attention to your complaints about SecuROM DRM.
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Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
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Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
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Re: Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
The Hot Coffee minigame controversy concerns a normally inaccessible minigame in the 2004 video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, developed by Rockstar North. Public awareness of the existence of the minigame arrived with the release of the Hot Coffee mod, created for one version of the product (the 2005 release for Windows-based computers). This mod enables access to the minigame.
The minigame portrays sexual intercourse between the main character, and his in-game girlfriend. The name of the mod is derived from the girlfriend's offer for the main character to come into her home for "coffee" — a euphemism for sex.
Although the "Hot Coffee" minigame was completely disabled and its existence was only highlighted after the mod's release for the PC version in June 9, 2005,[1] the assets for the minigame were also discovered in both the PlayStation 2 and Xbox versions of the game, and people found ways to enable the minigame via console video game hacking tools. By the middle of July 2005, the minigame's discovery attracted considerable controversy from lawmakers and politicians, prompting the game to be re-rated as an adult game, and pulled from some shelves. An updated version of San Andreas has since been released with the minigame removed completely, allowing the game to regain its original rating. A patch for the original version of the game, which disables the minigame and crashes the game if one attempts to access it, has also been released.
That was taken from the Wikipedia.. I know the wikipedia is not always reliable but as I remember it, thats fairly accurate. Your arguement that the content was already there is a non-arguement. Unles you want me to believe that Rockstar had some sort of a plot to force this content on the public all along. And due to to the heroic efforts of some hacker got found out. No, this was not supposed to go out to the public. It was uncovered by a hack. Should the content have been removed? YEAH!! Was it a bad business decision to leave it in there? The answer to that should be obvious. But that does not mean Rockstar should take the heat over the actions of a hacker(s). The SecuROM DRM is just a another way that Rockstar is going to use protect itself.
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Re: Re: Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
Protect itself from what, exactly? The DRM doesn't adequately protect the game, and can annoy legitimate customers, so there's little to no point in including it. If the pirated version of a game is more user-friendly than the legit version, you're doing something wrong.
As a previous poster stated, the solution is to not include the DRM.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
Its something that is just there to pacify the many people who target the video game industry. And its something they can use in court should an incident like Hot Coffee arise again. Or if Rockstar takes the blame again for the actions of third party software hacks, hackers, etc..
As for your solution... Imagine telling a group of 100 offended christians, "Well folks I understand your upset little junior just watched a xxx sex scene". But the real solution hear is to not use the DRM!!!!" Yeah, I am sure thats going to fly. I am afraid your gonna have to come up with something more solid then that. That is if you want to draw the attention of anyone other then the anti-DRM cronies.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
The wrong question is, "How can we stop our game from being pirated?" and it's the wrong question because the answer is only "Stop making games."
The correct question is, "How do we increase sales?" and since DRM has only been successful at causing problems for those poor bastards who pay money for games, the solid answer is "Remove DRM and stop treating people who ARE buying your game like criminals."
It's that easy.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
Which isn't any different than claiming someone hacked the game in the first place. So adding the DRM doesn't accomplish anything.
Imagine telling a group of 100 offended christians, "Well folks I understand your upset little junior just watched a xxx sex scene". But the real solution hear is to not use the DRM!!!!" Yeah, I am sure thats going to fly. I am afraid your gonna have to come up with something more solid then that.
When did you lose track of reality? DRM is in no way concerned with sanitizing games for the benefit of parents that are too lazy to care about what their kids are doing. The choice you're presenting here exists only in your mind.
The point is that DRM doesn't prevent piracy, often encourages it, and potentially hurts legitimate customers. So why use it?
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Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
Games will be pirated no matter what. DRM does not, and never has, worked. So what's the solution?
Don't fuck your legitimate customers off with intrusive DRM. That's what causes real world losses in revenue, not piracy.
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Re: A solution as opposed to hatred for SecuROM DRM
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0 day
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Re: 0 day
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Circular Effect
They say that PC games do not sell as well because of piracy, when console piracy is just as widespread and easy, Their copy protections are what turn away PC buyers, and then it gets cracked and downloaded anyway.
It is not the "pirates" fault that PC games are failing, it is the developers. Thanks so much Rockstar, now I hate you. And it will effect how I look at every single game you release from now on. Good job.
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My Letter to Rockstar... MAKE YOUR OWN!!!
This is ridiculous. I bought it for 360, and barely played it(shooters MUST be played on PC) - but I bought it to show my support for the good games. For you guys.
I was REALLY looking forward to, and planning on buying it for PC as well, but now I can't. SecuROM is not allowed on my computer.
You say that PC games do not sell as well because of piracy, when console piracy is just as widespread and easy, Your copy protections are what turn away PC buyers, and then it gets cracked and downloaded anyway. I choose not to pirate games because it is what is right to do. Just like NOT supporting companies who install malware on their customers computer, is the right thing to do.
It is not the "pirates" fault that PC games are failing, it is the developers. Thanks so much Rockstar, now my love for you has turned to hate. I thought you were different, but you are the same as EA, and the rest of the scumbags trying to steal my money with shoddy software.
And it will effect how I look at every single game you release from now on. Good job. I work for a living, and enjoying spending my money on games and giving it to companies that do a good job. this means in making the game and distributing it. You have failed on the latter.
I don't know if my opinion matters to you, but I wanted to know you have turned off a loyal customer. I have bought every single GTA game up until now, on PC & Xbox (as well as a 2nd copy of vice city for PS2) But now Rockstar has been moved to my shitlist. And I am not alone in that.
everyone should write one. email is usa@rockstarsupport.com
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Re: My Letter to Rockstar... MAKE YOUR OWN!!!
Try this: go to a bit torrent site, any will work. Look at the download stats for spore, then look at the down load stats for Left 4 Dead. DRM encourages piracy, you give hacks something to do, making more pirated copies available faster.
I'll be looking else where for my games from now on. You just lost a sale not to piracy, but to your own actions. And the people who pirate games- adding DRM won't make them buy your game. They'll either remove it, or not play at all.
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Re: Re: My Letter to Rockstar... MAKE YOUR OWN!!!
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Hello, a letter to rockstar
Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:47 AM
From:
"Dinko Smilovic"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
usa@rockstarsupport.com
This is quite obsurd. I have bought this and every single GTA game you ever had before. The first time i upgraded my computer was because i couldnt run the first GTA 3 game, but only by putting the camero to look from above (like GTA2+1+london).
During the past few days, i have been trying to start the GTA 4 i bought on thursday.
And the thing is, i still am. I have been to every single forum about, it, i have 4!!! acounts on the Social group you so blatantly put in the game for which i made 3 extra e-mails. i have 3 accounts on Games for windows live as well just for the SINGLE reason. I have done 6 instalations, and reinstalations, after it didnt work on my windows vista x64 bit, i tried to do it on my friends windows XP WITH service pack 3, and it just wont work.
I do not know if you are realising this, but by putting SecureRom, you have effectivly lost 60-70% of buyers that would have bough this game. Also the outrage of games has resulted in 1.4 out of 5 rating on Amazon, Steam allowing customers to sell their copies, and you have my word, that me, and anyone i can have an effect on, will NOT buy another rockstar game anymore.
You know what's the funniest thing? I bet you will blame all the small sell rates on PIRACY. You know what? SecureROM didnt prevent piracy, it ENCOURAGED it.
It is so frustrating to have a ORIGINAL game and not being able to play it, while seeing the "nausy camera" and other stuff you said would prevent pirates, is already fixed. I mean just visit thepiratebay.org there are already 4 working, stable cracks for the game, 5 days after it was release.
Well i know you will earn about 2'ce you put into the game, which would make about 200 milions if my calculations are right, but ask yourself, after all those who bought the game try messing with it, how well will the sales of your future games go?
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1. Program will have a form of DRM.
2. Purchaser can install on all of his/her PCs and activate without a numerical limit.
3. Presumably one who uses the program is capable of making a HD partition backup.
Assuming an install does not cause corruption of the computer, how is a consumer hurt?
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Re:
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Spore was hyped as the second coming, but the actual product was horrible and dull.
By placing resources towards anti(theft) perhaps the decision makers believe they can increase potential sales.
GTA is hyped to the same level or more. I know it is the one game I have been looking forward to for quite some time.
Perhaps they are beginning to realize that it didn't quite convert to the PC as nicely as expected. Maybe it is just a great idea but stuck in a platformed world. Maybe there is fear it won't sell.
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Marketing genius!
By publishers using SecuROM, they do more damage to their own product than piracy will ever do.
Meanwhile, Securom completely dominates the market in DRM, and the worse the DRM gets, the more people pirate, the more income Securome gets. Genius!
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Really,...
Let them protect the games with a self-destruct feature for all I care. Rockstar games are pure crap: the kind with peanuts and corn.
I think anybody with an IQ over 60 would probably agree.
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Re: Really,...
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1. Program will have a form of DRM.
2. Purchaser can install on all of his/her PCs and activate without a numerical limit.
3. Presumably one who uses the program is capable of making a HD partition backup.
Assuming an install does not cause corruption of the computer, how is a consumer hurt?
-------------------------------------------
I have an idea since you don't have a clue. Google Securom and read about all the problems it causes people on their computers. It can do a lot of bad things to your computer and is very hard to remove. All in the name of protecting their game which will be cracked probably before it's released in stores.
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Re:
The program ERUNT can easily be used for registry backup before installation and test driving the software for any problems.
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Re: Re:
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what about multiplayer cheating
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Boycott Sony...
For those that were damaged by SecuROM in Spore, this site might be useful for legal action against EA for using it...
http://www.girardgibbs.com/Spore.asp?_kk=spore
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Console
I do not agree with them adding SecuROM to the games. If Spore did bad, I think GTA4 will do even worse.
SecuROM is now a target for hacking and like someone mentioned, Rockstar and any developer who adds SecuROM to what they publish, are making themselves targets for hacking and bittorrent sharing.
I did not expect Rockstar to do something like this, I really had better expectations from them. I hope they reconsider their decision.
Since I got my PS3, I have stopped buying games for my computer.
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securom
My biggest problem with draconian DRM the limited installation garbage imposed on us with bioshock and mass effect. Bioshock was a wonderful game, but the whole install count business has completely stopped me from buying another game that has an install limit.
If y'all are looking for a great game to drop some Christmas cash on, check out Sins of a Solar Empire. Totally addictive, totally without copy protection.
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Never again
Anything that modifies root files in my operating system is a virus and should be dealt as such.
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Having recently purchased an XBox 360, I was trying to decide whether to buy the 360 version of GTA4 or wait for the PC version. Thanks to this announcement, not only will I be buying the 360 version, but I'm going to make sure it's a second-hand copy so that Rockstar don't get my money. The same decision I've made with Bioshock and Mass Effect.
Want to know why the PC market is having problems - here's your answer.
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Sad
Note to self, never buy another Rockstar game.
Just told another group of gamer friends about Securom this weekend.
They will now be on the lookout for games with it, and will not be purchasing them. Score 1 for the consumers.
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DRM is bad!
So, running over prostitutes, stealing their money, shooting people in the head, stealing cars, disobeying the laws of the road and basically acting like a psychopath are mature themes whereas heterosexual sexuality between two consenting adults makes it for 'Adults Only'?
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Genius.
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You've got mobs and mobs of people who will want it on the first day. They simply must have it. They do not want to wait. This trickles off rapidly, but they're a big hump at the front, like the people who must see a film on the opening night.
If DRM slows down the propagation of copies just a tiny bit, then DRM helps the company grab that first day crowd. That's what it's useful for.
After a couple of weeks, it's more or less there to help the honest stay honest. Do it wrong, like EA has, and you tick them off.
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DRM is cracked
SO LONG DRM..
Rockstar Games, we love you but please don't use this crap. We want to buy clean nice games not a game plus some shady crappy program to ruin it for us!
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Cheap-ass punks vs. Technical concerns
Many of the aforementioned cheap-ass punks can be found in the comment thread above ...
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GET A CLUE!
Not 1 cent!
Sony: Bought a new TV this year, was going to buy Sony, also bought a game console, was going to buy Playstation, Also , maybe BlueRay, I guess not! Thats about $3000 in lost sales SONY, You can thank SECUROM! LOSERS!
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Re:
anyone agree? I HATE THEM. sony killed my old laptop. I loved that beast...2.1ghz processor...4gb ram...17" screen...60gb hd that got shrunk (thanks to those bastards) to about 55gb.
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