Don't Speak Your Mind In British Columbia -- Even At Home

from the travesty-of-justice dept

Fri, Dec 5th 2008 5:18pm — Mike Masnick

Just a warning if you live in British Columbia: you might not want to express your opinion out loud, ever. Even if you're at home. Jon R writes in with a somewhat horrifying story of a man in British Columbia who has been found guilty of defamation for a private conversation he was goaded into, at home, which was secretly recorded. Defamation laws (for libel and slander) were designed to stop the public presentment of false information, traditionally through some sort of media property. It certainly was never intended to be used for the random comments made privately at home.

In this case, a developer was annoyed that residents in one of the developments where he owned the water and sewage rights were complaining about the way he operated. So, he hired a private detective to pretend to be a potential homebuyer in the neighborhood. The detective knocked on the door of Jack and Judy Aasen and asked about the neighborhood. They, being friendly people, invited him in and had a nice discussion with him, pointing out that they liked the neighborhood very much, and the "only problem" was dealing with the guy who owned the utility, Brad Chapman, who was about to tear up their yard and cut back on their sewage service. The Aasens were upset that they had no choice to switch to another provider and that they had no say in stopping their lawn from being torn up. Jack jokingly referred to Chapman as "a prick" and said he "kind of makes the suggestion that he's got the mayor in his pocket." During this conversation with a guy they thought was just a friendly potential new neighbor, the detective was actually recording the whole thing.

Aasen and three others got charged with defamation for this, and the amazing thing is that the court agreed -- specifically on the comment about the mayor being in his pocket. Even that seems pretty questionable, though, since Aasen never said the mayor was actually in the guy's pocket, only that Chapman himself "kind of makes the suggestion" of that. To then charge the guy with defamation for that statement seems like a huge stretch. But, much more troublesome is this idea that you could go into someone's home, misrepresenting yourself, secretly record the conversation while coaxing the people you're talking to to say something negative about someone else... and get them found guilty of defamation for it.

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Filed Under: british columbia, canada, defamation, opinion

87 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 6:15pm

Sewer guy
Wow, that sewer guy has some issues.
He really needs to seek professional help, before he hurts someone.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ScruffyDan, 5 Dec 2008 @ 6:17pm

I better keep quiet.
I'd say something, but I live in BC, so I'll just be a good citizen and keep my mouth shut
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 6:23pm

Wow
Speechless. Ironically.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mechwarrior, 5 Dec 2008 @ 6:32pm

Wait...
Wouldnt this be considered entrapment? Or does BC, or Canada, have laws against this sort of thing? Or is that just a USA statute?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 7:04pm

Re: Wait...
wouldn't entrapment only apply if it was a cop, not a PI?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
JackBGood, 5 Dec 2008 @ 7:04pm

The Nice Utility Man
Everything is GREAT!!!, said the prisoner.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
slimcat (profile), 5 Dec 2008 @ 7:28pm

Let me help you neighbor.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 7:33pm

I'd kick Mr Chapmans ass, & since BC has minimal prison sentences, I'd probably be out in a month on a social program for misunderstood inmates... former BC resident here..
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 7:39pm

What a nice place to live
Now alot more people are aware of the situation, you think anyone would consider buying ?
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bob, 5 Dec 2008 @ 7:57pm

No SLAPP
Only on Canada eh?
Entrapment is predominantly a criminal thing.
This was a civil matter.
Having read the CBC news article it looks like the B.C. Court of Appeal has some explaining to do. I hope the B.C. Civil Liberties Association helps make this right at the next court level.

Interesting to note that Anti SLAPP legislation was repealed by the Liberal BC gov.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 8:48pm

It's amazingly ironic that this guy is now known as being a prick worldwide, rather than simply in that town/area.

Bravo, sir.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 8:56pm

This is why we need Thought Police - so much more reliable.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous, 5 Dec 2008 @ 9:53pm

Incredible that a person can't say what they want in their own home. I didn't think we were suppose to be a Communist country. Maybe I am wrong. This should really help the developer in his future dealings shouldn't it. Just the type of person everyone wants to deal with.
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American Idiot, 5 Dec 2008 @ 10:19pm

I am glad that I live in America where (for now) such a issue would not be considered libel - it would be taken at face value: a friendly conversation about the neighborhood and the "prick" in charge of the sewage.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 10:47pm

That developer sounds like a prick.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 5 Dec 2008 @ 11:15pm

Chapman must have a similar recording of things the mayor said. That's how you really get the mayor in your pocket.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Pjerky, 5 Dec 2008 @ 11:19pm

I will say it loud and proud...
The actions of one Brad Chapman, as mentioned in the above article show that he is undoubtedly and unequivocally a grade A Asshole and a PRICK. You see how easy that is? I hope everyone in Mr. Brad (Prick) Chapman's area drives by his home at all hours of the night honking and waving lit signs calling him a prick. It would be hilarious, ironic, embarrassing for him, and there would be way to many people for him to sue. It would be a losing battle.

Course, I am an American and I can get away with saying whatever I want about others as long as I pass it off as opinion and not fact. Canada doesn't look so Utopian now does it you damn hippies?
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Joe Rider, 5 Dec 2008 @ 11:25pm

He wasn't found libel for the "prick" part
An absolute defense against any claim of libel is the truth -- meaning that if you can prove that what you are saying is true, then it clearly isn't libel.

It's funny that the case in and of itself acts to prove that Brad Chapman is indeed a prick -- the only thing he was really found guilty of was the mayor comment.
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some guy, 5 Dec 2008 @ 11:38pm

Here's the email address for Brad Chapman's company in Vernon, BC. info@lbchapman.com
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Paul, 6 Dec 2008 @ 12:10am

Are you not allowed an opinion in Canada?

I think all Canadians say "Aye" just to piss me off personally, and you can tell them I said that-in America!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mike allen, 6 Dec 2008 @ 12:33am

not only
brad Chapman is a prick so is the judge,mayor, and probably 1/2 the Canadian government.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 1:29am

And slowly, yet surely, Orwellian actions will make it so that I will have to move out into the desolate wastelands of the Arctic just so I can be as free as I was promised to be when my family fought in The Great War, World War II & Korea.

Thanks Canada... Thanks.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 4:39am

One might suggest that it was the judge and not the mayor that was in the pricks pocket.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 5:21am

Re:
Looking at the ruling, I'd say he actually had the JUDGE in his pocket.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ben, 6 Dec 2008 @ 5:49am

Re: Sewer guy
He ALREADY hurt that family. The family that was taken to court, lost time from work, was found guilty of a crime, and was probably fined, or has the threat of monetary damages over their heads, was harmed. This guy needs to be punished, preferably by the courts, but failing that, by the people of the property he owns. This needs to be shouted from the hilltops, before all the voices in British Columbia are stilled.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 6:11am

Link
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/081202/canada/vancouver_bc_slappsuit
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 6:12am

Is this good for business?
Sending a PI out to get people, who are your customers, to say bad things about you in private and then sueing those people.

It doesn't strike me as a business model you want associated with your business. Who would want to do business with you in the long run? It certainly eliminates the possibility of new business and limits the possibility of keeping your old business in the long run.
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Overcast, 6 Dec 2008 @ 6:54am

That's easy to fix. Next time someone comes to the door asking questions, tell them to leave or your calling the cops.

But as a bonus in all of this, we all now know this developer sucks. BIG time. Just the idea he'd hire a PI to go after a customer would make me certainly stay the fook away, far away.
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SomeLawyer, 6 Dec 2008 @ 7:25am

Re: Wait...
This isn't entrapment in the US, entrapment is when a police officer creates the opportunity for the defendant to commit a crime. Actually, despite the view of the author, the story sure sounds like defamation to me - even under US law - assuming the comments were not true.

No damages of course, but it's defamation
[ link to this | view in thread ]
SomeLawyer, 6 Dec 2008 @ 7:29am

Re: Re: Sewer guy
Come on, its a civil suit, not criminal, they haven't lost yet. While I agree it's a silly suit, the defendant did imply that the plaintiff was engaged in corruption with a politician. It might be fair comment, it might be true, but it also might be defamation.
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SomeLawyer, 6 Dec 2008 @ 7:31am

Re: I will say it loud and proud...
It wasn't the prick comment that is the subject of the lawsuit, it is implying that he bribed the mayor.

Saying someone committed a crime is defamatory...even in the US. Calling him a prick is not. THAT is opinion.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 7:34am

Re: Re: Re: Sewer guy
If I'm talking in my own house, i can save whatever the hell I please. I'm not publicly broadcasting it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 7:35am

Re: Re: Wait...
I'm failing to see why people are missing the "public" part of defamation. Do you know how to read? Or do they not bother with that in law school?
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Jesse, 6 Dec 2008 @ 8:47am

It was on appeal too, the original court ruling sided with the defendant's. I am a BC resident, and this is truly sick. The worst part is, our last government put in anti-SLAPP legislation, but it was later repealed by our current government.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 8:48am

I heard that that this chap aforementioned enjoys the company of the major of said town/village/region. However this is just between you and me, Anonymous Coward.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
amnotalawyer, 6 Dec 2008 @ 8:52am

It's interesting.

opinion vs fact
private vs public

Some one can not express their opinion in private ? That's BS
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tom, 6 Dec 2008 @ 9:13am

So many levels of BS in BC
Wow, how may ways to look at this thing. I read the link to the more compleat story and I must say first, that I am still not certain if this case is civil or creminal. As for the artical above, my understanding, of US law is that 'Liable' is the private spreading of "False" information about the actions of someone. Slander would, as emplied, be publicly (signs, broadcast, etc) distribution of again "False" infromation. My understanding is that this case was for 'defimation'. The is also the right to privacy in ones affairs. To me, there is no place where Privacy would be given more waight than in the privacy of ones own home.

All the explaination of the where ases and where fores, come back to one fact as I see it. There seems to have been a court ruleing on evedence and testimony by Anonamouse Sources. In the more compleat story it was said that there were only testimony in the form of a transcript of the tape conversations. This dose not afford the accused to face and examin the testimony of his accuser.

For me in the end there seems a great miscarrage of justice but I am still not sure of how this case has reached its level of discourse with so little to go on.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Danny (profile), 6 Dec 2008 @ 10:07am

QED
The sewer guy hired an investigator to go into people's homes and induced them to talk about the sewer guy?

I think he demonstrated himself to be a prick. QED.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rosetta Stoned, 6 Dec 2008 @ 10:58am

Allegedly Ahem Eh Allegedly Ahem Eh
Mister Chapman is an alleged prick who is allegedly shtuping the mayor in the ass in exchange for financial favors and political concessions. Mister Chapman also allegedly couldn't tell the difference between a sewer pipe and a crack pipe, even if it bit him in the ass. Go ahead and sue me, mo-fo.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 11:32am

Re:
What does Communism have to do with this?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
kevin hash, 6 Dec 2008 @ 11:37am

2 pricks
Not only is the developer a massive tool, evidently the judge is, too.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with either of them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ahhh, 6 Dec 2008 @ 11:40am

email sent to brad... he is a dick, let him know that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Arky, 6 Dec 2008 @ 12:22pm

Wait... isn't it illegal to record someone without a warrant?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Errrrr, 6 Dec 2008 @ 12:28pm

Re: So many levels of BS in BC
Tom,

I can not tell if your post is satire.
If it is satire, then its funny.
If not ... well I do not know where to begin.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
spoondaDDY, 6 Dec 2008 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re:
GET A LIFE u r always here
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 5:10pm

Re: not only
I take great offense to your comment. As a Canadian and British Columbian I know first hand that it is a full 90 percent of the Canadian government (at all levels) that are pricks.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike (profile), 6 Dec 2008 @ 5:23pm

Re: Link
Was there a problem with the original link in the post that made you post it again in the comments? It seems to be working for me...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 6:04pm

"C" is for...
Socialist healthcare, and now court backed entrapment/eavesdropping.

C is for Canada
C is for Communist
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Dec 2008 @ 6:28pm

And More...
[Querying whois.internic.net]
[Redirected to whois.netfirms.com]
[Querying whois.netfirms.com]
[whois.netfirms.com]
Registrant:
LB Chapman Construction Ltd.
Browning, Gillian
Box 1316
Vernon, BC V1T6N6
CA

Domain name: lbchapman.com

Administrative Contact:
LB Chapman Construction Ltd. lbchapman@telus.net
Browning, Gillian
Box 1316
Vernon, BC V1T6N6
CA
250-549-2907 Fax:

Technical Contact:
support@netfirms.com
Manager, Domains
5160 Yonge St., 1800
Toronto, ON M2N 6L9
CA
+1.4166612100 Fax: +14166610700

Registrar of Record: Netfirms Inc.
Record expires on 2009-01-24.
Record created on 2008-01-24.
Database last updated on 2008-12-06 20:49:34.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
fatcat, 6 Dec 2008 @ 8:04pm

Re:
damn strait, that guy needs a good old fashion ass kick'n.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dawger, 6 Dec 2008 @ 11:20pm

Once Again
Streisand Effect.....

Why do they not learn?
But then another idiot is born every 7 seconds.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2008 @ 2:08am

B is for bullshit
Come on, this is cbc, msn, and a handful of blogs that reference these articles ... take a closer look; can anyone find a reference number or any indication that Mr Aasen is real? Retired judge Jack and his wife Judy. It seems like the only point is to make Canada look like an unstable country on the brink of shambles, and any idiot outside of the united states can see otherwise. I'll be the first one to say hey something's wrong, but only as soon as I see that this really happened and a news article about Canada from a biased news source is not what I call objective. After all, how many articles were out there about Obama's middle name, or Obama the Muslim Terrorist, etc. It's all bullshit unless you've researched it yourself and posted the info for anyone else with half a brain to take 5 minutes and verify.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ranzear, 7 Dec 2008 @ 2:36am

Streisand effect coming to full power on this prick.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tom, 7 Dec 2008 @ 4:37am

Re: Re: So many levels of BS in BC
Once again I'm not sure if this is defimation or ridicule, in any case knock your self out.
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Lee Riggenbach, 7 Dec 2008 @ 6:11am

Free Speech
This sure makes me appreciate "Freedom of Speech" here in the USA.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2008 @ 7:00am

Re: Re: Re: Wait...
Bravo!!!
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Billy Bob, 7 Dec 2008 @ 7:11am

Re: E-Mail
I sent him an e-mail stating that I think that he's a PRICK! I hope everyone does the same! His mailbox will be overflowing and the prick can decide which of them is business related or which of them is factual.

If someone acts like a PRICK, does that create a fact that he is a PRICK?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Billy Bob, 7 Dec 2008 @ 7:21am

Re: B is for bullshit
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/12/01/bc-slappsuit.html
[ link to this | view in thread ]
A is for Anon, 7 Dec 2008 @ 8:53am

Re: B is for bullshit
You are comparing a small town sewer guy to a presidentiual candidate and implying that they would get equal coverage in the mainstream media. Then you claim that lack of said coverage means the story is a stretch or is outright bogus. This does not make sense, and the "make Canada look like an unstable country " seems out of context.

As far as troll rants go, I'll give you a C-.
You need to give your rant a bit more thought.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Omali, 7 Dec 2008 @ 8:56am

Re: B is for bullshit
Yes, because any news story relating to anything bad in Canada is attempting to show that the country is in shambles. Apparently, being an idiot outside of the US hasn't helped you see this at all.

And if you're looking for a non-bias news source, good luck. Just keep sticking your head in the sand and disregarding all the bad words as fake. You're going to get real far in your unstable country falling into shambles (lulz)
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p cost, 7 Dec 2008 @ 9:03am

dont speak your mind
its the same everywhere!!! goverment can break any law that pleases them, then they pass laws to screw anyone who speaks out against them!the only way to win is keep speaking out and voting them out!
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RoadRaaash, 7 Dec 2008 @ 12:23pm

Freedom Isn't Free
God bless the USA
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Anonymous, 7 Dec 2008 @ 1:51pm

We actually have a concept called "freedom of speech" down here in the US, and a court case called New York Times v. Sullivan protects everyone from slander or libel charges, unless the person claiming to be slandered can prove actual, deliberate malice as well as falsehood, a very high standard of proof to meet.

I don't understand why B.C. feels the right not to be offended takes precedence over the right to speak your mind. What are they smoking up there?

Well, I guess it's because they're Canucks. Instead of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they have "peace, order, and good government." Reminds me why I live in the US (though a dash of Canadian socialized medicine would be a good thing around here, instead of paying $1000 a month at the pharmacy.)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Starry, 7 Dec 2008 @ 3:16pm

Zimbabwe
Canada has sliding down the slippery slope to "Alice in Wonderland" for years...it has arrived.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2008 @ 4:04pm

Another case of trying to squash public speech and having it instead aired over the internet for anyone to hear / read. You have to wonder if this guy Chapman really got what he wanted. Anyway I guess I won't be moving to BC.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2008 @ 5:36pm

Re: Re:
Be cause in China and the former soviet union you would end up in gulag for speaking ill of the establishment... even in your home. No speaking ill of anyone anywhere... never know who is KGB.

In Mother Russia, KGB own you!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mike42 (profile), 7 Dec 2008 @ 6:29pm

Re: Re: Re:
That's not communism per se, merely the totalitarian way that communist countries tend to be governed.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
kilroy, 7 Dec 2008 @ 8:19pm

Re: not only
it is Canada ... it is winter ... there may be plenty of pricks but they are all pretty small - the cold will do that to a prick!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Fsm, 8 Dec 2008 @ 2:28am

Re: Freedom Isn't Free
It costs $1.05
[ link to this | view in thread ]
SunKing, 8 Dec 2008 @ 6:42am

Free Speech One Each!
Brad Chapman is a PRICK !
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Raymond, 8 Dec 2008 @ 7:26am

Actually, he defamed himself
"it is implying that he bribed the mayor." No, it's implying that he claimed to have bribed the mayor. In other words, the man defamed himself.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch, 8 Dec 2008 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: I will say it loud and proud...
You're saying in the US if I say "that guy sort of implied he has the mayor in his pocket" in the privacy of my own home, I'm guilty of defamation? I really, really, really hope you're wrong if that's what you're saying.
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known coward, 8 Dec 2008 @ 12:38pm

is that a mayor in your pocket
. . . or are you just happy to see me?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Dec 2008 @ 12:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer guy
Ok, you want a public broadcast? Here goes:

Chapman is "a prick" and has got the mayor in his pocket.

This guy needs to be dumped into his own overflowing sewer pronto!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Dec 2008 @ 12:17am

Re: Re:
And a straight-jacket too?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Dec 2008 @ 12:18am

Re: Re: Re:
Get a Dictionary!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Klyde Beattie, 11 Dec 2008 @ 9:57am

Re: Wait...
I don't think it's entrapment if it's a private citizen who does the 'entrapping'.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
logicprobe, 12 Dec 2008 @ 10:58pm

illegal recording?
In most states in the U.S. it is illegal to record a private conversation without the consent of all parties, and one is assumed to have privacy in one's own home.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Michael, 17 Mar 2009 @ 9:59am

Re:
Haha i agree
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 17 Mar 2009 @ 10:10am

Re:
Hahahahaha
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Darius Denzel Wesley aka Dpretty aka Dreckless, 14 Apr 2009 @ 12:13pm

Tyra Banks
Tyra Banks is so beautiful
I could write a 1000000 page book on how good tyra banks looks
if you ever read this tyra add me on myspace and have me on your show
dariuswesley61@yahoo.com
dariuswesley20@yahoo.com
and oh ya ofcourse I am going too speak my mind
Tryra Banks is my favorate model
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Government Investigator, 18 Jul 2009 @ 3:45pm

Re: I will say it loud and proud...
Mr. Chapman lives off the beaten path and it would be very difficult to "Drive Past His house" unless you have a boat. To find Brad Chapman's house you have to go out to the end of tronson Rd...the VERY end and then head eith up Goldclaim Road or down to the lake. To get to his Goldclaim Road house just keep going past the big green gates.

I suggest you take a bucket of shit with you to leave him as a present....and yes, he is a globally know piece of shit...I should know, I work for the cunt!!!!
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Due Dilligence by John Vanderleese, 18 Jul 2009 @ 4:05pm

Leanard Brad Chapman
Word is slowly getting around that LB is not a good company to hire. I am a recently upgraded supervisor with LB and I can tell you this much, as an employee I have to toe the line but as a Christian I have to be honest with my convictions. We have been kicked out of nearly every long term contract we have gained recently. Sparkling hills fired us for over charging, Predator doesn't want us back because they know Chapman does not stand behind their work.

I'm here for the money and nothing else.

JV.
Vernon BC
Supervisor
Chapman Contracting a.k.a Braden Contracting.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 17 Mar 2010 @ 12:04am

Re: Re: Freedom Isn't Free
get a brain Fsm
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2015 @ 1:44pm

Yay!!! chapans dead
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2015 @ 8:09pm

Yah I guess he finally got was deserved
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Eugene Blahblah, 7 Apr 2016 @ 9:02pm

Karma's a bitch
Brad and Flo Chapman were killed in a plane accident October 2015....Karma's a bitch.

EM
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