Student Sues School For Suspending Her Over Facebook Group
from the free-speech-or-cyberbullying dept
Last year, we pointed out that teachers are increasingly complaining that students are cyberbullying not each other... but the teachers themselves. Of course, in a lot of cases these seem overblown. Yet, that hasn't stopped some teachers from arguing that cyberbullying should be a criminal offense. Yet, when teachers overreact and consider just about any criticism "cyberbullying" you're going to run into problems. Take, for example, the case of Katherine Evans. As a high school student who didn't much like her English teacher, she created a Facebook group called "Ms. Sarah Phelps is the worst teacher I've ever met!" That doesn't seem like cyberbullying. That seems like garden variety student-bitching-about-teacher. Even worse, Evans' fellow students told her it was a stupid group, and expressed support for the teacher, such that Evans decided to take down the group herselfBut, the school apparently felt this was a big problem, claiming that this was cyberbullying harassment and "disruptive behavior." It suspended Evans for three days and pulled her out of various advanced placement classes. Now, Evans is suing the school for violating her free speech rights. As the Wired article notes, there have been lawsuits about free speech in school in the past, but the internet makes the issues a bit different here. Either way, it's quite difficult to see how the school can claim that such a group is actually cyberbullying, and punishing the girl for venting hardly seems like a reasonable response (especially for an issue that was dealt with by other students in a reasonable manner). What is this world coming to when people can't take the slightest criticism and insist that it's somehow "cyberbullying" that requires punishment or discipline?
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Filed Under: cyberbully, florida, students, teachers
Companies: facebook
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Re:
Quotes intentional. I find a good deal of Ivy League schools aren't worth the hassle that many put in for them. Not because the education isn't good, but rather that the cliquism just really, really annoys me.
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Re: Why...
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Re: Re: Why...
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Absent people willing to take on the powers that be in their worlds, none of us would be able to say much of anything anymore. These lawsuits are not about money -- damages rarely amount to much and the plaintiffs generally are only looking for injunctive relief -- but the core First Amendment principle that government may not willy-nilly restrict our right to express ourselves just because it upsets somebody. Even if she only got some "ordinary" level of discipline and was not removed from her AP classes, she'd be absolutely right to sue if negotiations could not convince the school to back down. Her being a high school student, and was only subjected to discipline of some form, does not mean it's frivolous. Tinker is going to be on the books for 40 years in 2009, and it's still the best articulation of this bedrock principle as concerns students that the SCOTUS has ever issued.
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This is the worst article I've ever met.
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Speech and it's lack of freedom
I as "PC" bureaucrat alone, at my will, will deem what speech is proper.
This should piss one off.
http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=20&_function=detail&sbtblct_uid1=522&mon th=11&year=2008&_nc=dad991014fa632897ec903d571dc41e3
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Re: I agree
Suspension, possibly... however I don't see this being a suitable punishment. I think she has every right to sue for rights violations!
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You are a dumbass
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Re: Re: I agree
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Re: I agree
High school kids know that this shit isn't okay. They just know that they have a good chance of escaping any consequences so they continue to do these things anyway. You certainly can't agree that this was the right course of action for the student to take. Try considering this from the other side of things.
>Just seeing that this student is in advanced placements classes shows that she is more advanced than others, and should thus be treated more like an adult.
Speaking from experience, kids in AP classes are rarely more physically and emotionally developed than kids who aren't in AP classes. The kids may know more in terms of educational level, but they're still kids, and they still do the same stupid things.
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lameOmeter
pulled out of advanced classes is vengeful
I thought the school (board?) was suppose to set the example
you know, teach the kids how to act like an adult and stuff.
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...
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Typical education facility
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A fine example to be made of a free thinking individual.
This is a prime example of fascism. In a few years if not months this is the sort of thing to be expected from our government. These infractions on our civil rights can NOT be allowed. Unfortunately it is only going to get worse. As our government continues to fail us in their endeavors to serve themselves we'll see more and more of this. It just won't happen in court, the people who speak out against those that hold power will just disappear.
GET YOUR MONEY LITTLE GIRL!! SUE THE PANTS OFF THAT SCHOOL WHILE YOU STILL HAVE THE RIGHT!! The basic principals that we all believe we live by are at stake here.
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Slippery Slope
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Re: Re: I agree
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Sad but true
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Re: Slippery Slope
Because the facebook group is a very public posting that is read by not only the students and faculty, but the entire community (and world, for that matter). If she had taken out an ad in the paper that stated: "Ms. Sarah Phelps is the worst teacher I've ever met! - paid for by Katherine Evans", would you not think this deserves SOME kind of punishment? It's actually pretty libelous.
The article said that this is "garden variety student-bitching-about-teacher", but it is clearly not. It would be if the bitching was purely among private company, but once you post or broadcast this stuff to everyone in the world, it becomes something entirely different.
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Re: Re: I agree
They certainly wouldn't suspend someone and remove them from AP classes if someone went home and used their personal computer to write an e-mail about how much they disliked their teacher or if they spoke on their personal telephone about how much they disliked their teacher. Why is a group on Facebook any different?
For that matter, why didn't the teacher just accept it as feedback and go from there. Either it's constructive feedback and they can learn from it, or it's not and they can act like an adult and ignore it...
Is it just me are most adults just bigger six-year-olds?
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Re: Re: Slippery Slope
Expressing an opinion based on facts and real-life experiences with someone is an opinion and is protected by free speech, even if she took out a newspaper ad.
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Re: Re: Slippery Slope
How about garden variety bitching about a doctor and his forgetfulness or lack of a decent bedside manner on the Internet in an I-Hate-Dr.X group? That's certainly not libelous and is protected speech. It's even helpful to potential patients.
I could go on, but I feel I've made my point.
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Re: Re: Slippery Slope
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Wrong Forum for Criticism
Then the teacher would be fired. But not becuase of some Facebook group started by a kid with a weed up her ass, but because of a parent community in uproar based on feedback from their children. They would petition the administration--after trying to deal directly with the teacher to no avail. Channels, people, channels.
I've contacted Facebook to remove groups started by students. Issues like alleged rape, assault and battery, little things like that. And Facebook removes then because they are being prosecuted in courts. Channels, people, channels.
You got something to say to me? Let's talk about it. You post it online? You coward, you're toast. Make my life miserable? I'll make yours a living hell. But you already knew that.
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SUE SUE SUE!
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Re: SUE SUE SUE!
Let me just say something to those of you that are of the opinion that Ms. Evans should sue the school for all it's worth.
First, if you had read the lawsuit, you would see that she is not suing the school, but the school's principle, Mr. Peter Bayer, in a personal capacity.
Second, if she sues the school for all it's worth, as you have suggested she do, it leaves a lot less money for students like me at that school. Our school is already in a battle with the school board for the money it owes us. There have been drastic cuts at the school. Teachers can't print all the resources that they want to for students because they are only alloted a certain amount of paper/toner a year. Our books are falling apart because there isn't money to buy new school books.
Sure, she can sue the school and school board for all it's worth, but that leaves the majority of the students up a creek without a paddle. What needs to happen is the lawsuit needs to be dropped and the suspension needs to be expunged. That's all the suit ask for (that and legal fees as well as small monetary compensation)
So as a student at the school where the event took place, I am against Evans suing for all the school is worth because it leaves me, my friends, and everyone else worse off.
PS. To whoever was asking about Ms. Phelps, she's rather nice and is a good teacher. Most kids "hate" her because her class is hard. She makes you do stuff that you don't want to do (large projects, analyzing this and that, finding the meaning of the apple seed*, etc...). There is nothing for the school to investigate.
*I made the apple seed example up, I haven't had Ms. Phelp's class but I know her and I know people that have had her. All of what I said stands true though
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Re: Re: SUE SUE SUE!
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Long time lurker...
But seriously, never, ever have a sentance that includes the words "What is this world coming to when".
You are not the Daily Mail!
Keep up the very good work!
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Re: Re: SUE SUE SUE!
This has NOTHING to do with Mrs Phelps, this has NOTHING to do with what school or which little girl. This is about basic rights in this country to express opinion. It's not like there was a death threat made. This was simple opinion.
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Re: lameOmeter
Unfortunately, there are far too many school boards who haven't figured out how to do that themselves yet.
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Student sues school for suspending her over facebook group
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Re:
Now please inform the group who the school's employees are employed by, where the money from their paychecks comes from, and who oversees their conduct?
Bingo.
The public school system is run by the government.
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Ridiculous
In this case, however, the girl simply states an opinion. Clearly, that is protected free speech, unless, of course, the student set up the profile using school computers. Even then, it seems to me that the best response would be for the school counselor to do his job. Sit down with the student and, possibly, the teacher to figure out where the real problem is. For crying out loud, the kid didn't even use profanity. I would expect a profile like that to read "Mrs...is a bitch." I think she was pretty unoffensive.
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Re: Re: Why...
From a law standpoint, the school was wrong and the girl was right.
From a non-legal standpoint, the school overreacted and overstepped their boundaries and the girl was a typical young adult doing what they do best.
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Keep in mind we do not know what was said inside the group or id she was posting lies about the teacher in the group.
Her parents should displine her. It is their responsibility for her actions out side of school. The school should not be getting involved in the discipline that the parents should be demonstrating. They have every right to send home a letter to Mom, and Dad saying, "You know what your daughter is doing" but they over stepped their bounds when the suspended her and took her out of her AP classes.
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Re: Wrong Forum for Criticism
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Hello? Did you even think about this?
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Re: Re: Re: I agree
My name is Sean Fogarty and I am a real big dumb poophead.
There, who cares if it's your manager? If your manager were a world-wide superstar, then it would make a difference if his name was seen world-wide, but putting the name of your nobody boss online doesn't make any difference.
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You see, here she has learned from her teachers who took her out of classes and suspended her for nothing, that the best way to retort is to sue.
I guess she is learning from them, but all the wrong things.
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cyberbullying and bullying are the same thing
But beyond that I don't think she did anything wrong to start with. People make comments like this, and worse, about President Bush all the time. As long as those comments aren't threatening no one would expect the government punish them for those comments. If this girl organized a petition or staged a demonstration would she have been suspended? All of that is the same. FB is used to rally students in an effort against a teacher, only in this case it didn't work. That is exactly how it should have been handled. If it worked than likely the teacher is bad, since it didn't work, truth prevailed. The school would have been better off just to leave it at that.
Further I do see this as an issue of free speech. She should be allowed to have a group or express her opinions as she sees fit. If that is cyberbullying than we live in a scary nation.
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when I was in school I sought to experience life and enjoy myself. I certainly didn't have the best grades because of it, but I think I am doing fine now.
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Being involved in AP courses should be a privilege, just like participating in athletics or other school functions. If a kid is a jerk, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to participate.
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Suing for...?
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Whos the adult
Come on here what the hell is going on we, have hyper sensitive teachers that cant take criticism.
As far as being involved in AP courses (something said here) It is the responsibility of the school to educate the students if a student is beyond the class then the school has the responsibility of creating or placing that student in a higher level class or even grade. If they fail to meet that responsibility then they should be held accountable. My school system was successfully sued for failure to provide academic growth of one student that was beyond the current curriculum they basically paid for his college for the last two years of his high school education.
One more thing, most bright student that do things like this are basically bored in class do to not having a challenge. Maybe this teacher should stop scouring facebook/my space /whatever and do what they are paid to do design curriculum that challenges students rather than bores the crap out of them
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Re: cyberbullying and bullying are the same thing
The sad thing is, there was a petition at one of the charter middle schools for better lunches and the students involved apparently were given detentions...
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Who gets to decide who's a jerk? Some burned-out administrator? A council or a board? What are the criteria?
Roflmao, that is a really stupid and poorly-thought-out opinion.
But you know what? I will always defend your right to state that opinion...
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Re: Wrong Forum for Criticism
He was the worst one I ever met.
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Re: Re: I agree
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To all the supporters of the school
For those who think that this is a waste of taxpayer money: What were school administrators doing looking up facebook profiles of students on taxpayer time? Since the profile was deleted, it must've taken a lot of time. Plus they are the ones wasting money trying to assert they have power over students no matter where they are. I'd say the admins are the ones wasting the money.
And to the teachers here. That particular teacher should grow up. If you are a teacher, you will have students who will say bad things about you. REAL teachers suck it u, and go about their day. People who should find another profession go whine and cry to get the principal to silence any criticism.
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I THINK WE ARE FORGETTING SOMETHING HERE!!
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Wheres the parents
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Re: I THINK WE ARE FORGETTING SOMETHING HERE!!
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