New York The Latest To Propose Taxing iTunes Downloads
from the for-no-reason-at-all dept
Earlier this year, some politicians in California, which is struggling with massive budgetary problems, proposed adding a tax to iTunes downloads. Now, Governor David Paterson in New York is proposing the same thing. There's no functional reason for this, other than the fact that the state desperately needs money, and so it's trying to add taxes to just about anything it can find. Of course, back in the old days, the point of a sales tax like that was to contribute to gov't-funded infrastructure (roads and such) that allowed folks to go and buy something. There's no such rationale for taxing internet downloads. It's a blatant money grab and Paterson seems to have no problem admitting that.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: david patterson, downloads, itunes, new york, tax
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Sucks to be iTunes?
What's more disconcerting is the precedent this establishes for other states (or the federal government) and other industries. As the government has done nothing but become more bloated and exploitative in recent years, this seems like just another step in the wrong direction -- a way of bandaging problems rather than fixing their sources.
Is there even anything a citizen can do in a situation like this, realistically speaking?
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Re: Sucks to be iTunes?
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If you live in New Jersey and buy something in NY, you are supposed to let NJ know and pay NJ sales tax on the product.
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Apparently not.
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If we had a standard, nationwide VAT, then the collection process would be easy, but since each state is different, it has long been held that collection of sales taxes for companies with no physical presence in a state is impossible. Of course, since Apple has stores in NY, one could make the case that they should collect the taxes, but, as one poster already noted, it's very easy to avoid the tax by using a fake address and a proxy.
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(newegg fiasco +1)
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Re: Sucks to be iTunes?
Viva la Revolucion!
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Good point.
"If you live in New Jersey and buy something in NY, you are supposed to let NJ know and pay NJ sales tax on the product."
Also a good point.
That was the case even before the advent of internet shopping. If you mail-ordered something from in your state, the seller would collect sales tax - pretty much like it's done online as well. If you mail-ordered something from OUT of state, the seller, who was not subject to your state jurisdiction, did NOT collect sales tax. It was YOUR obligation to report and pay it.
The proposal here is that the out of state business now be obligated to collect sales tax for your state: that is, the NY company you are buying from is supposed to collect tax for the sale made to you in NJ.
As you said, what makes the Internet special?
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New York Stinks
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87 Other taxes to consider
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/12/16/2008-12-16_gov_david_paterson_unveils_dire_new _york.html
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tax is inevitable
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But there's really no "in state" or "out of state" on the Internet. THAT is what makes the Internet special -- it knows no political or geographical boundaries. It shouldn't be able to tell which state you're from or which state the company is located in. Even if you argue that it should, it is extremely easy to get around that by using proxies (as mentioned earlier).
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Erratum
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Really? i don't know how things work over there but I work in Gibraltar, live in Spain and often buy things from UK web sites. I don't have to tell the Spanish government when i buy things elsewhere. Do you really have to tell other states?
If so, that sucks for you, but it doesn't negate the fact that a localised sales tax is becoming an increasingly outdated concept. As is alluded to in the article, the whole idea of sales tax to begin with was to recoup the wear and tear on things like public highways and other infrastructure that get used when stocking and purchasing items. You think this is still applicable on the internet?
Also, how exactly would this be policed? You think it's going to be hard for an NY citizen to set up a proxy and an out-of-state credit card to avoid these taxes? Hardly, and the cost of chasing people would probably be more than they collect.
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Absurd
Get ready for change everyone...
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"owning" music
Music is also a product. I don't see why it should not be taxed. Agreed, it is going to be difficult implementing this tax. But still.....
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Re: "owning" music
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It'll be a great time to be a retailer anywhere off of the Jersey Turnpike. It wouldn't be a surprise if WalMart breaks ground on a a dozen stores right at the NY/NJ border next week.
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Re: 88 New Taxes
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But aside from the legalities, how in the name of all things great and small do they think this could work? I guess the NY Governor is blind in more than one way.
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Re: Re: Sucks to be iTunes?
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If that is so, we'll simply see the sellers relocate (less money for the state) and the buyers who know how to proxy will do so. In the end, the state will not make as much money from the tax as they will lose from the sellers leaving. It's a lose-lose situation.
And, again, this is something that makes the Internet special: it's relatively easy to pack up and relocate an online business.
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Or for death...
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And yes, you are supposed to report to the state what you buy in other states, but I doubt if anyone actually does, at least until they get caught.
I am expecting soon the annual articles in the local papers about how state officials will be writing down plate numbers of cars that are parked in NJ shopping malls. You see those articles every year, but I doubt if govt. officials ever actually do that.
And most of you are coming at this from the wrong angle, the tax has nothing to do with what should and shouldn't be taxed, because the govt. is just trying to raise money. Reason doesn't really play into the equation.
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NY iTunes tax
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Policy Decision
If it goes through, it won't be surprising to see companies strategizing for options to relocate out of NY.
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Follow the money
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I Can See It Now
So then there will soon be some shady looking guy standing in a dark alley asking you when you come out of the bar, "Hey Buddy, wanna buy an illegal download and save the tax?"
When is the government going to begin taxing church bulletins, or traffic lights that require a wait of more than a minute, or flights that take two hours to depart after boarding is completed?
We need to elect some more imaginative legislators. What do you say we begin taxing votes, that way only the rich will be able to afford to vote. And we could tax the contents of oxygen bottles which the elderly use to assist their breathing, so we couldn't run up so many Medicare bills taking care of all those OLD people.
We could give tax CREDITS to the estate of any unemployed or elderly person who commits suicide. We could set up tax payment stations along the Mexican border to collect a Rio Grande River Crossing Tax. (Ask anyone in Virginia how they like paying to cross the Chesapeake Bay to get to work.)
What about taxing Microsoft for every time their Internet Explorer allows another computer to become infected with malware? Or taxing Adobe for each second that their Reader takes to load?
Heck, we might as well hook up a taxi meter to each computer and charge a buck a minute for internet usage and be done with it. We can allow our legislators to tax us right back into the stone age. Because they would rather tax US instead of having to tax their billionaire buddies (Like Bill Gates) who donate their taxable wealth to foundations and charities which they control, and then use to manipulate the system to their advantage so that WE, the middle class and lower classes pay all the income, sales, property, and download taxes, while the wealthy work for a dollar a year PLUS hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exempt bonds or stock options as bonuses for coming to work now and then, live mansions around the world owned or controlled by their "charity", and fly on private jets owned by their "charity" and eat food at banquets paid for by their "charity" and, well, you get the point. WE PAY, THEY PLAY.
It's time for CLASS WARFARE, except that HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES, and there's nothing we can do about that.
I'm with the government, and I'm here to collect the $2.30 you owe plus the $35 penalty plus 25% interest from the date of your download. Pay me now or I will have to impound your mp3 player.
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Obviousness
Also.
So many people voted for Obama because only people making more than 250K would see a tax increase. How's that working out for ya? Both of those clowns should have told the People the truth, that hard times would lead to things like this regardless of who won. And yes, I do know the difference between federal income tax and state tax. As I said before, how likely is it that if/after the financial crisis ends, these taxes and fees will be removed ?
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I thought this had been going on for, ummm forever ?
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