EFF And ACLU Sue FBI Over Seizure Of Activists' Computers

from the 4th-amendment-anyone? dept

Thu, Jan 15th 2009 5:20pm — Mike Masnick

The EFF and the ACLU has filed yet another lawsuit against the government, highlighting another scary abuse of power that feels straight out of a police state, rather than the free society we supposedly live in. Specifically, the FBI and other law enforcement officials raided the offices of two different activist organizations and seized all of their computers. There are two issues here that are important. First, if the FBI was concerned about the computers being used in commission of a crime, they easily could have followed the same policies used to get records off of computers at libraries (part of the issue is that these organizations offer public access computers to folks visiting their offices). The second issue is that both organizations act as publishers, and federal law makes it clear that the government can't just seize computers of publishers except in extremely narrow circumstances. So, in either circumstance, the Feds should not have seized the computers.

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Filed Under: 4th amendment, aclu, activists, computers, eff, seizure

17 Comments

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A. L. Flanagan, 15 Jan 2009 @ 5:57pm

This is why I donate to the EFF
Why do people assume that the old rights don't apply to new technology? Is it just a case of "let's see how much we can get away with"?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2009 @ 6:12pm

Does anybody remember...
This sounds incredibly like the Secret Service raid on Steve Jackson Games in 1990 - the very incident which led to the formation of the EFF. In both cases, government agents walked into a building and proceeded to grab anything that resembled a computer, even if it had nothing to do with the case they were working on.
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Bob V, 15 Jan 2009 @ 6:20pm

I remember
Its funny you mention the Steve Jackson because that was the first comparison that came to my mind.
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Relonar, 15 Jan 2009 @ 7:53pm

Re: This is why I donate to the EFF
That is exactly as how I see it happening. Constantly pushing the border a tiny bit, if it leads to a conviction and goes under the public radar then theres a better chance of the policy holding, after that they can push a tiny bit harder. Then you have cases like this where someone does take notice. Stuff like this needs to be checked, checked by the agencies themselves before groups like the EFF and ACLU need to get involved.
People are more willing to follow the laws when they can trust the enforces.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2009 @ 8:09pm

Normally I agree with the EFF, but if history teaches anything, it is the ACLU is always on the wrong side of all fights.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2009 @ 9:32pm

Not that I agree with the search (there is no mention in any of the articles why a search warrant was even issued), but these two groups are hardly paragons of virtue. Visit their websites to understand what I mean.

Yes, the First Amendment forcefully applies to much of what they are distributing to the public, but in many ways these groups remind me of Berkeley back in the late 60s and early 70s.
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Kevin C., 15 Jan 2009 @ 10:17pm

@5 - 'Normally I agree with the EFF, but if history teaches anything, it is the ACLU is always on the wrong side of all fights.' - Absolutely right! Damn that ACLU for trying to defend/protect our rights!!
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carol, 16 Jan 2009 @ 2:52am

cmon now chin up!!!
change is here :-)

http://www.jobstaxi.com
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James, 16 Jan 2009 @ 5:44am

Terrorist
The ACLU is one step short of being a terrorist organizaion.
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Terrorist Sniper, 16 Jan 2009 @ 6:00am

Re: Terrorist
The ACLU is a neccessary organization that defines one side to which the pendallum could swing.

In order to have balance, you will always have ultra conservatives and ultra liberals. Lack of either will lead to a shift in the balance to the other side.

The last thing I want is an ultra conservative police state.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2009 @ 6:37am

Think
" . . . rather than the free society we supposedly live in . . . "

as long as you can be imprisoned based on the types of weeds growing on your private property, you dont live anywhere near a "free scoiety" . . .
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Rick Sarvas, 16 Jan 2009 @ 7:44am

I almost forgot about the Steve Jackson Games, though if I recall correctly, the incident was caused by accusations business was being run largely on pirated software.

Ah, Car Wars. Happy memories.
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nasch, 16 Jan 2009 @ 10:13am

Re:
Yeah, always.

PS please adjust sarcasm detectors as necessary
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nasch, 16 Jan 2009 @ 10:25am

Re:
I didn't even find mention of IF there was a search warrant, let alone why.

Let's see, close Gitmo, stop the practice of child soldiers, allow 9/11 court case to be publicized, opposing pardons for those involved with torture, supporting habeus corpus rights, reform domestic surveillance... some highlights from the ACLU.

EFF wants to get an exception to the DMCA so people can legally unlock phones, oppose censorship, hold companies accountable for assisting in domestic spying, protect travelers' privacy, and many other things.

So... what exactly is your problem with these organizations? Honestly, I'd like to know. There seems to be a lot of mistrust and even hatred of the ACLU, especially from the right. I just don't understand why there would be so much opposition to an organization that works to protect civil liberties and Constitutional rights. The EFF would probably be in the same boat if they were more widely known.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2009 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Terrorist
Opting instead for the ultra liberal police state that is just around the corner?
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Grae, 16 Jan 2009 @ 1:09pm

Re: Terrorist
Cite your source for this statement or stop spreading FUD.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2009 @ 9:38am

Re:
Actually, the Steve Jackson raid was based on even flimsier evidence - one of their employees was sharing electronic copies of a Bell document from his home computer. The main connection the Secret Service capitalized on was that the same guy was in charge of running SJ Games' BBS computer (just one machine in the building). They also misrepresented the document being spread as a stolen, high-priority document, worth many thousands of dollars, when it was publicly available for about $20.
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