The Pirate Bay's New Business Model Apparently Working Wonders

from the wonder-how-this-will-work-out dept

Fri, Apr 10th 2009 5:11am — Mike Masnick

One of the key elements of the trial against The Pirate Bay in Sweden was the claim by the entertainment industry that the site's owners were profiting massively by selling ads on the site. The defendants denied this, claiming that they basically earned enough to keep the site operating, but not all that much more. However, the entertainment industry may now have evidence of a new lucrative business model by The Pirate Bay. Apparently, 113,000 customers have already signed up for The Pirate Bay's new anonymous VPN service, which costs around $6/month. So, we're talking more than half a millions dollars coming in every month from this alone... and that's just based on customers signing up in the first week or so. But would the entertainment industry really be able to go after that revenue as well? After all there are plenty of services out there that provide anonymous VPN services, so you can't say that this particular revenue is "profiting from piracy." Either way, though... it's yet another sign that everything the entertainment industry tries to do to "fight" file sharing seems to come back to bite them.

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Filed Under: anonymity, business models, privacy, vpn
Companies: the pirate bay

139 Comments

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lulz, 10 Apr 2009 @ 5:31am

Muahahaha, you'll never stop their revenue stream! long live tpb
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 5:49am

Seems like the Pirate Bay folks are looking more and more like the pirates in Somilia. Everyone says they really can't be stopped either.

Lawlessness isn't limited to Africa, attitudes need to be changed of course, but strong punishment on the supply AND demand side need to happen also.

Orrr, maybe shipping companies should just keep paying ransom.
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Vic, 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:00am

Recording Industry = dumb!
If TPB and others can make a profit from this business model, why doesn't the RIAA do something like this?

As for TPB = Somali pirates. I don't think so. TPB = The boat makers maybe. Just think, if we made it illegal to make and sell speed boats, pirates wouldn't be able to operate in the ocean! Problem solved! No more speed boats for you!
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Mike K, 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:01am

Re:
... Ok, I'm going to assume you don't actually think that TPB is seriously comparable to Somalian pirates. There's no way any intelligent person would think that.
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The infamous Joe, 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:10am

Re:
Holding someone's life hostage demanding large sums of money they don't deserve and didn't earn sounds more like RIAA tactics to me.

Who are the *real* pirates?
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sniperdoc (profile), 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:11am

The Pirate Bay vs Somalia
I think it was an astute assumption...?

JUST KIDDING!

I do think that the Anonymous person doesn't use TPB nor do they follow the Trials... so it's only fair to assume they're not aware of what TPB is. Insulting their intelligence is pretty immature.
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asdf, 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:26am

Re:
lol....tru.dat
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:26am

Re: The Pirate Bay vs Somalia
When one makes a fool of oneself one occasionally needs to be shown that.

Perpetuating mistruths is a serious problem. Normally intelligent people seem to have lost the ability to reason with logic or to learn about a subject when it comes to copyright laws.
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James (profile), 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:31am

SpeedBoats
When you outlaw speedboats, only outlaws will have speedboats.
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C.T., 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:32am

"After all there are plenty of services out there that provide anonymous VPN services, so you can't say that this particular revenue is "profiting from piracy."

That doesn't make any sense. Of course you can say they are profiting from piracy.
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lulz, 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:45am

Re:
No, you don't make any sense. People don't pay them to host links to illegitimate content. VPN has nothing to do with that.
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C.T., 10 Apr 2009 @ 6:58am

Re: Re:
Lulz -

People are paying them for VPN access to the site. A big draw to the site is copyrighted content. The more copyrighted content on their site, the more VPN subscriptions they will sell. It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what is going on here.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:01am

Re: Re:
Yes, he does make sense. w/The VPN service, TPB isn't ENABLING piracy, since there are legitimate reasons to use VPN, but certainly they are PROFITING from it. If even one "pirate" uses the VPN service out of fear of being uncovered for his actions...bingo, profit from piracy. On the other hand, what's wrong w/that? That's like admonishing security guards because they profit from crime.
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Overcast, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:07am

I wonder if I could cell CD's with the VPN option on them?
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:11am

This is the one where TPB eats it big time. There is only one reason to go to VPN in this manner, and it's to "infringe".

This is where they have gone over the top and will get themselves in massive legal trouble.
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VPN User, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:12am

Re: No - Subject
""After all there are plenty of services out there that provide anonymous VPN services, so you can't say that this particular revenue is "profiting from piracy."

That doesn't make any sense. Of course you can say they are profiting from piracy."

You can say anything you want - saying it does not make it true - or even where it will hold up in a court of law.

- Making anonymous VPN services available is not a criminal activity... at least not yet - but governments, especially those run by special interest groups do tend to frown on technology that supersedes the status quo.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:14am

Re: Re: Re:
The RIAA lawyers profit from piracy too then.

In fact, some RIAA revenues come from piracy indirectly. Indirect profits just won't outrage people like the direct sales of copyrighted goods.

And there are people like me, who try their hardest to not use pirated material, but who occasionally end up on torrent sites for legit stuff. If I click on an add or want encryption, then there's no profit from piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:15am

You want to admonish security guards because they profit from crime while trying to stop crime?

Bars get shut down because its patron's get in fights and buy and sell drugs in their place of business. Hotels are shut down because prostitutes use their business for their crime.

Why should the Internet be any different? Maybe we should send some of those warships to Sweden. If their government (like Somalia) can't stop lawlessness, maybe the rest of the International Community should do so. Just pop up elsewhere? Well, that's what cruise missiles are for.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:16am

TPB owns boats ?
And again ... TPB does not host any infringing material - only links to it.

This is illegal - why?

TPB: Hey - Look, infringing material over there!!!
RIAA: Assume the position perp or I'll taze yer ass
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robin, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:17am

free as part of a model
as was revealed during news of their trial last month, TPB site is just a portion their webhosting business, and takes up only part of their available servers.

here we see a bunch of scraggly haired kids from sweden leveraging the infinite (.torrent files) to support the scarce (webhosting space, vpn services, what next).

and demonstrating more acumen than certainly all record label, music execs and their acolytes combined.
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VPN User, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:18am

Re:
I am afraid many of my corporate customers will disagree with you - they use VPNs and VPN services for a multitude of activities that do not "infringe" on anything. If I can use the anonymous VPN service to go anywhere I want, how can you prove I was "infringing" on a copyright? You are only assuming I am downloading illegal content and at least for now, assumptions are not proof of anything. Does it make it more suspicious - by all means, does prove I am doing illegal activity no
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:19am

Re:
Wow. Too funny
Nice troll
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chris (profile), 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:20am

if there is so much money being made...
why can't the content industries just offer up some competition?

i have suggested in the past that i would gladly pay for a "piracy pass" that let me keep doing what i am doing without all the hassle of tunneling, ip blocking, and whatnot.

being legal or at least guaranteeing no litigation has to be a competitive edge when competing with piracy. especially if the fee was reasonable.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:23am

That is $6 / month in REVENUE per person. If the following quote is correct, they are barely covering costs (or are using ad money to make up losses from the VPN service).

"As far as the real costs of bandwidth go, we spoke with Bruce at VPN provider Perfect Privacy who told us: 'There is a reason why we currently charge about EUR 10.00 to EUR 15.00/month (depending if you pay for 3 or 24 months in advance), namely that 1 mbps of dedicated bandwidth in the West costs about EUR 10.00 to US$ 15.00 at the very minimum. In Asia it costs about US$ 80.00/mbps. That’s US$ 1,500 (U.S/Europe) to US$ 8,000 (Asia) every month just for 100 mbps.'"

http://torrentfreak.com/company-offers-lifetime-anonymous-bittorrent-for-5000-090101/
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:24am

So a bunch of hippies that build their company off illegal activities should be commended? It really isn't difficult to make money when you flirt with the law (look at Somalia Pirates) but that isn't the way most should consider building their companies.
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Osno, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:26am

Cool. TPB didn't have a business model before the spectrial. The IFPI (and new Sweeden laws) gave them a very lucrative one. That's sharing the love!
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:28am

Re: TPB owns boats ?
Why offer VPN? Why try to offer a way to hide? What are you hiding from? Why is TPB hiding in Sweden, and not operating in any other country?

It's all to hide away from the law, because they make their living offering "infringing" files.

Actually, this one has potential - they are now offering services in all of these countries. They are so going to get slapped from this one.
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:30am

Re: free as part of a model
The only acumen they are showing is knowing that when you don't have to pay for something people want, you can make money.

They are just hi-tech fences, nothing more and nothing less.
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joe, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:34am

Re:
There are no pirates in Somalia. Only people who kidnap because their fishing industry has been decimated since their state failed because of Japanese over fishing and euros dumping waste off their coast. kinda tuff to "pirate" booty off a massive commercial freighter when your sailing a beat up old fishing boat. However, marketing people as pirates does sell cable new ratings and blog post.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:38am

A lot of those same people would pay 6/month for access to entertaiment industry approved content if that content was available at a reasonable price point. TPB is only popular because consumers do not have the options they want and the existing options are EXTREMELY overpriced.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:38am

Joe, that is the worst troll I have seen in quite a while. A better tack would have been to say how the pirates are forced to do what they do because of how mean big countries have been to them over the years, but to say there are no pirates really ruined your troll.

Work on that a bit. There were some good things in their but your start and your finish was really bad.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:40am

The existing options are extremely overpriced?

I bet that is exactly what the Pirates in Somalia believe also. You guys keep good company.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:46am

Re:
Are you fucking DENSE? I'm pretty sure I preceded that line w/"But what's wrong w/that?". I wasn't admonishing Security Guards using TPB as an example, I was legitimizing TPB using the security guards. Read with half a brain, tard-o.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:51am

if everyone would just stop breathing everything would be solved.

8-X
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mike42 (profile), 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:51am

Re: Re:
...and offshore drilling that has poisoned most of the local habitat, so the people can no longer feed themselves.

Gosh, I'm so sad Obama shot down the close-shore drilling!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:52am

Re: SpeedBoats
When you outlaw trading music only the outlaws will have music.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:54am

Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
That's like asking, "Why own guns, the government will protect you."

A. No they won't

B. According to the constitution, sometimes it's the government you need protecting from.

Seems to me the same thing applies w/VPN
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:54am

Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
Thanks for answering the question with a question.
I assume that you have no answer, which is what I thought.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 7:57am

Because the security guards you are talking about are working for the criminals. Tards like you want to give the criminals the tools yet work to weaken government and law enforcements ability to protect us.

Yeah, anonymous VPN is a good thing. File sharing is a good thing. Skype is a good thing. America had been free of terrorism (unlike Europe) but out weak willed politicians decided to kowtow to every whacked out group there is. Then terrorists struck America. While liberals say they support America, all they are doing is importing Europe's model. Well, how do you think that is going to turn out? France and the UK will be passing Sharia law in the near future, Germany, well, you don't have to go far to see what they produce.

This is the problem, very few are willing to stand up to the people and just say that something is just plain wrong. GWB tried to do so and now the media and liberals portray him as the worst ever. Europe compares him to Hitler. Obama is nice and good and willing to talk to everyone. Columbia had Iran's president speak there (yet banned ROTC and Dick Cheney) but hey, who cares about North Korea's missle launch? Who cares about Iran buying the missiles from North Korea? Who cares about China selling the missiles to North Korea?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:02am

Recent copyright infringement notice
I just recently recieved a 'Notice of Copyright Infringement' from my ISP - Mediacom stating that they were notified by HBO that I used their ISP to download a HBO show. I replied to the ISP asking why I wasn't also notified by my local Electrical Power utility of the same thing as I most likely 'allegedly' would have used their electricity to power that same download. I also asked why this notification wasn't also sent to me by AMD for using one of their processors, WD for storing it on one of their HDDs, Microsoft for running their OS while doing so, uTorrent for perpetrating this 'crime' on thier software...etc, so on and so forth.
I also inquired if HBO had provided a fund for the ISPs legal fees as they have been given the brunt of enforcement for these or if they were simply paying lawyers to draft these notices out of the goodness of thier hearts or a long-standing business partnership with this particular company as they are also the local HBO cable provider.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:03am

Re:
Rushbo ?
Is that you ?
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JMG, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:05am

Re:
Ok, if that's the case, why don't the recording companies just institute their own version of the The Pirate Bay or something like it? If they, the copyright holders, can make this kind of money "legitimately", it may be a potentially good idea for them. That's been the problem with the recording industry for the past decade: people know what they want (access to music without any hassle or huge cost), but the big companies just don't want to give it to them. So others step in to do so.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:06am

Re: Recent copyright infringement notice
"as they are also the local HBO cable provider."

Bingo
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robin, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:06am

Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
"Why is TPB hiding in Sweden..."

why were they born there? obviously criminal reproduction by their parents.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:08am

I think we should just start hijacking car carriers, lets target Mercedes. Once we have the cars, we can sell them cheap and make loads of money. This will actually be a good thing because more people would want to drive Mercedes but just can't afford it. In the end, Mercedes will lower their price to a point that everyone can afford.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:10am

Re:
Better not provide a listing of where to find car dealers, because that would be illegal - right?
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:10am

Re:
Europeans, the smart ones at least, compare Bush to Hitler because of his family's history, which they're right about. Take a peek into Prescott Bush, and then the money generated for GHWB's campaign by Nazi sympathizers and plutocrats. This stuff isn't just being made up, no matter what Fox News might tell you.

GWB tried to stand up and say something is just plain wrong? Admirable, except that he also stated that God told him to end tryany in Iraq because that was just plain wrong too...

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

That isn't moral authority, it's psychosis.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:11am

Re: Tgeigs
"That's like admonishing security guards because they profit from crime"
Not that I have anything against tpb but I'm pretty sure guards are trying to avoid the crime, not aid it so your comparison is not valid. I don't believe they get paid more the more crime there is like tpb does.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:11am

TPB is in Sweden because Sweden is a socialist state. If the US wants to import that type of system, so be it. Lets all pay 50% taxes (wait, the rich here will do that, so lets go whole hog)

Sweden fosters the thinking that champions not equal opportunity for all, but equal results for all.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:12am

Re:
I think you are exactly right about this. TPB is actually doing the entertainment industry a huge service by conducting mass-market research for them at cost. In fact, years from now when the entertainment industry FINALLY does adopt an acceptable model for everyone willing to pay for one I am quite certain they will use a model very similiar to the one TPB and other BT providers have designed.
At the time they do, I would love to see TPB and others present a nice fat bill for all the research done up to that point that directly benefits any new model the entertainment industry finally does decide to adopt. Of course, I also think that any legal fees throughout the course of this research phase should also be included in this invoice.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:14am

Would providing links to a list of truck routes of car carriers be illegal? Would providing links and blueprints and geo codes of nuke power plants be illegal? Would providing links to child porn sites be illegal?
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:15am

Re: Re: Tgeigs
You're right, it's not a perfect analogy, maybe not even a good one. I was just trying to make a point. However-- "I don't believe they get paid more the more crime there is like tpb does" -- I would take issue w/that. More crime = more need for security guards = more money for security companies. It is in security firms' and police institutions for that matter best interest for there to be crime.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:17am

More horse and buggy
I would personally blame government for paving the roads. Without that pavement people would probably not want to drive a Mercedes to begin with.
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Sean Henry, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:17am

Re:
"Bars get shut down because its patron's get in fights and buy and sell drugs in their place of business. Hotels are shut down because prostitutes use their business for their crime.

Why should the Internet be any different?"

You know your right we should do the same thing since a few people are getting unlicensed files and some see that as being BAD then shutdown the ISP (note to self dissreguard safe harbor provisions in DMCA). That will show them infringers.
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ehrichweiss, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:18am

Re: Re: Re:
People could use *any* VPN service for that. The reason people are using TPB's is because they know they'll actually fight for the consumers' rights.

I'd go with TPB's VPN service for that reason alone, and it would be used on much more important things than TPB's torrents, of which it is prudent to note that I probably haven't downloaded more than 4 torrents from them in the past 2 years.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:20am

Re:
Have you ever aded up all the taxes you pay and figure out what the percentage is ? The taxation of a typical middle class income/expenditures totals just below 50%. And is much higher than that of those with very large incomes.
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ehrichweiss, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re:
VPN has many more uses than piracy.

People really like privacy and many people realize that TPB will stick up for their rights. That alone is enough incentive to go with them for NON-piracy reasons. I will be soon enough.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:23am

Re:
Equating piracy with socialism is silly. Sweden may be socialist, but that has nothing to do with the economics of piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:35am

Re: Re:
Do somali pirates pay for their music?
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:50am

Re: Re:
You don't get it - unless they are "sticking it to the man" these people won't pay. This is the moral equivilant to buying an Oink t-shirt, as far as they are concerned. They aren't planning to pay for entertainment, they are doing the old Anarchy thing, screw the system horseshit.

They will graduate from school one day and give it up.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:56am

It has something to do with the fact that people that support socialism believe a certain way, that everyone should have access to everything without worrying about paying for it.
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Someone, 10 Apr 2009 @ 8:57am

No No No No No No No No No No
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Rowdy, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:04am

Re: Re: Re:
Manslaughter or murder 1? Here comes a rant . . .
Look, your comment is TRUE, but applied legally its the same as saying that companies like Symantec and McAffee must be supporting the secret development and release of viruses and Malware because it creates demand for their products.

Pirate bay has every right to venture into a new business model and the appropriate response to a law that allows tracking IP addresses (and it could be said specifically targeting Pirate bay for RIAA) in Sweden would be offering a service to provide privacy. I cheer every time they (TPB) give RIAA the middle finger.

One day this B.S. RIAA will no longer be a viable business tactic and they will go away. How can that be you ask? Because there is no consumer demand for RIAA. They are in fact growing the P2P problem by existing and operating as they do.

Anyone here for a party to throw a container of music CROMs into the Boston Harbor? This time let's dress as music executives instead of Indians.
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Someone, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:05am

No No No No No No No No No No
It's you who does not get it. People do the TPB thing because it's how people want to get their music. It's fast, easy and cheap. That's what people want. There is no moral component to it. Well, maybe a little but it's not the primary concern. It's pure consumerism. People want to consume music. The entertainment industry has done everything in their power to limit and control and profit from the ways people get their entertainment. People want it easy and cheap and the industry makes it not easy and not cheap. Lots of businesses have prospered by giving consumers what they want, not by deciding what they want and how they get it.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:09am

Re:
Because, and let me try to be really clear about this:

the pirate bay is not selling drugs, hookers, or starting a fight club.

As for somalia, people don't rebel for no reason. Tomorrow's terrorists are todays refugees, war survivors, and orphans of war. You call it lawlessness, they call it their only source of income.

Whatever happened to civil disobedience? When you disagree with a law, you break it. You show how ineffective it is. You rebel.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think we agree far more than we disagree (I'm a fan of TPB as well).

However, I'm one of those people that actually doesn't see AV firms secretively funding malware creation as an impossibility. I know I'm kind of a conspiracy nut, much more so than most people, and I'm okay w/that.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:12am

Re:
How about you count up how much of your income goes to various insurance, pension, and retirement programs.

There's a reason most socialist countries have higher standards of living, because they PAY LESS for equivalent or better services. In addition to actually HAVING workers' and citizens' rights, such as sick leave, the right to your retirement WHEN you want it.

Capitalism is a plague on your nation, your education, and your people. The ones who really know the truth in America make a damn fine profit of keeping the lie believable.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Re:
Remember, kids, none of the additional details matter. If you break the letter of the law, you are afforded no consideration.
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RoyalWitCheese, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:24am

VPN
Sweet, I'm going to use the TPB VPN to talk to all my terrorist friends!

TPB supports Terrorism!

Actually I'm gonna gonna use the VPN to connect to Obama's site so I can troll.

TPB supports Republicans!

OK, I won't troll.

TPB supports Democrats!

OK, not Obama's site, maybe Techdirt.

And since I'm still here ...

Techdirt supports me!

and since you're still here...

You support me, and my views on Terrorism. Because if you didn't, you would be out banning Techdirt for allowing such atrocities as this.

"Welcome to the Machine"
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:27am

Re: Recording Industry = dumb!
The obvious follow-up is that TPB isn't producing any of the music. Hell, they aren't even hosting the music. Compared to the costs of finding, promoting, and producing talent, TPB pays penuts. So the RIAA couldn't make as much as TPB, anyways.

More to the point, it will be argued that the RIAA can't/won't make as much on that model as they do now, ripping of artists, suing customers, and selling plastic discs for $20+.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:32am

Hahaha, you cheapskates will never hold a Boston CD party, because that would require you to buy something in the first place.

Music, free. Healthcare, free. You want to pay for nothing but want everything. The world doesn't live work like that. You can try for a while, but it just crashes and burns.

The world owes you nothing. America gives you the opportunity to succeed, not the right to succeed. Seems to me to be the best system out there so far.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:33am

Re:
Actually, bad example

Because there is no mass theft here, potentially only one "car" was ever stolen. So if you wanted to put it in better terms it'd be more like this.

Let's go steal a car and then build alot of other cars exactly like it and give it away for free.

And even that isn't quite right either.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Do you think doctors are all trying to get everyone sick...?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:38am

Re: Re: Tgeigs
How about admonishing doctors because they profit from disease? The more people that get sick, the more money doctors make.

Of course, a security firm acts the same way -- the more crime there is the more clients they have because more people are afraid of being victimized. So... maybe it's not such a bad analogy.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:43am

Re: Re:
safe harbor provisions in DMCA

What these people are doing is illegal. Don't try bringing the law into it.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:45am

Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear, right?
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Azrael, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:50am

Re: Re: free as part of a model
"The only acumen they are showing is knowing that when you don't have to pay for something people want, you can make money."

Please explain it to me how they can make money from something people want to have but don't want to pay.

"They are just hi-tech fences, nothing more and nothing less."
And who has decided that what they are doing is illegal ? I was never asked.
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Azrael, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:54am

Re:
A company's sole reason to exist is to provide a product that has a buyer. If the government decides that this is illegal then we should change the government.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Trying to get everyone sick? No.

Treating symptoms instead of curing diseases? Yes.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:56am

Re: Re: Re: Tgeigs
You're too funny. Stop with the analogies already. :) It's cracking me up. None of those people (guards, doctors, security firms) provide an easier way to get what is in question or get more of it and definitely none of them provide a way to get it anonymously.
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Azrael, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:58am

Re: Re: Re:
Sorry to tell you, i'm 39, with 22 yeard work experience under my belt, i'm paying my taxes religiousy and i still get 90% of my entertainment thru DC++ without paying a dime to those greedy bastards you ass-kissingly serve.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 9:59am

And you tools wonder why music now is all Britney Spears. You get what you deserve.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's what doctors do...treat symptoms...unless of course they find out what disease the person has then they treat that. We have this thing in this world called scientists. I believe they focus more on finding cure for diseases than doctors do. This is off topic, but I'm just saying.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:02am

Re:
How do you cell a cd?
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Azrael, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:03am

Re:
No, it's about paying the right price.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:06am

Re:
music now is all Britney Spears? Maybe mainstream $#!+
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tgeigs
"None of those people (guards, doctors, security firms) provide an easier way to get what is in question or get more of it"

The CIA backed drug/weapons cartels would like to kindly disagree with you.

"The deputy director of the CIA revealed that over 30 universities and institutions were involved in an extensive testing program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens at all social levels, high and low" - Senator Ted Kennedy, 1977 Senate Committe on domestic human drug testing
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tgeigs
There are exceptions to everything. I obviously meant they don't do this on the regular basis nor is that what their purpose is.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tgeigs
"There are exceptions to everything. I obviously meant they don't do this on the regular basis nor is that what their purpose is."

I would probably agree. It seems to me that the difference between us -- and correct me if I'm wrong here -- is that I see those exceptions as a reason to question everyone else that seems fishy until I'm satisfied they aren't, where as you think that since most of the time you'll be questioning legitimate practices, it isn't worth the time.

I happen to think my way is how you avoid Bush regimes, Dick Cheney Continuity of Government programs, Hitlers, Iran Contra, etc.
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:34am

I expect to see TPB's VPN become a great way to hackers to launch attacks and whatnot. A cheap open hidey hole isn't exactly an invitation to surf the web, it's designed for people trying to hide.

TPB will go down on this one.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:38am

Re: Re: Re:
There is no copyrighted content on their site or their system. Merely links.
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wha, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:42am

Re: Re: Re:
What these people are doing is illegal. Don't try bringing the law into it.

wha?? *head asplode!!*
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claire rand, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:43am

$6 a month...
there are actually a good few reasons to use a service like this, DPI advertisers (phorm, nebuad etc), idiots in government (UK home sec) who think they need to monitor everything etc

but $6 a month for just that may be slightly too high.

add the access to TPB trackers in a "safe" way and it flies, apparently.

get the **AA's to offer access to their back catalogues this way for say $10 a month and that would fly as well.

yes some people would pirate them, but most wouldn't bother, so thats a revenue stream. note I said back catalogue, maybe don't offer stuff till its been 'out' for maybe a few months. yes some more will pirate as a result of this, but many would wait.
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Chronno S. Trigger, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:44am

Re:
The Boston Tea Party was a bunch of people who raided a ship and threw the Tea overboard. They didn't pay for it then throw it over.

I don't want national health care (nor would that be free). I like having the ability to be one of those low risk people.

No, you do not have the right to succeed, nor douse the **AA, but they seem to be taking that right and removing our right to choose.
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The infamous Joe, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:46am

Re:
You've got us all wrong, Howard. VPNs aren't illegal. They can't go down for this, because this isn't illegal.

Though, since so many people mistrust their governments, making them want to have a more anonymous connection, I think that should really be a sign that the government is no longer representing the people.

Demand for privacy is not an admission of guilt, despite what you've seen on Law & Order.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:48am

Re:
Strange Hank: once the "hackers" charge through the door, they can cut the cord...until then, I don't think so.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people...vpns don't hack computer networks, hackers hack computer networks
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Chronno S. Trigger, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:50am

Re:
Most encrypted VPN services were created for the exclusive purpose of anonymously surfing the web. Most of the market is built on those paranoid about the government monitoring traffic (an now the paranoid have a real reason).

Hackers, on the other hand, don't need VPNs to hack. Good ones force their way threw other PCs and the not so good ones ether higher bot nets or create programs to do it away from their PCs.

TPB will not go down on this one since they are not violating the law in their home country.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:54am

The pirates are not really violating the law in Somalia either, since there really isn't a government there. Doesn't mean that others can't (or shouldn't) do something about it.
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Tgeigs, 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:58am

Re: Re:
"an now the paranoid have a real reason."

Speaking of which, since I'm just a paranoid nutjob and all, did anyone happen to hear about the bill that Representative Rockefeller is proposing that would give the White House the ability to flip the switch off on internet connectivity? I think I saw it on one of the other tech blog sites, but can't seem to come up w/it now.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:06am

Re: Re: free as part of a model
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Is that what you meant to say?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:13am

Re:
Illegal in your eyes, perhaps. It has yet to be proven it to be illegal in the eyes of the law.
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C.T., 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:14am

Missing the point
Many of you are missing the point. Nobody (reasonable) is suggesting that VPNs are illegal, or that they are some sort of admission of guilt. The issue is that TPB is selling access to its VPN in order to sustain/profit from the site. If that's the case, then the argument becomes whether this is just a roundabout way of profiting from the infringement that is occurring through their site. From a legal perspective, a court is almost certain to rule that it is, for the same reasons that they regarded Grokster's revenue from ad sales as a profit on the infringement.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:19am

Re:
Mouth breather. There is no comparison between the two. Stop trying to turn a logical discussion into an emotional one. The Somalia pirates are trying to keep their families fed, as well as striking back at those that destroyed their means of support, which still doesn't excuse the means used. TPB is still a legal website until it's been PROVEN that they are not. All this bullshit from people like you won't change that.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:21am

Re: Re:
very good point Joe
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The infamous Joe, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:22am

Re: Missing the point
There are other VPN service providers out there. Do they profit from piracy, too?

The people who run tpb don't *just* run tpb, they have other business ventures too.

They saw a demand for anonymous internet, and now are supplying that demand.
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minder49, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:30am

Re:
With the 35,000 + lawsuits filed by the RIAA, there is another use for VPN on tpb, to avoid being erroneously prosecuted! Media Sentry/ Media Guard will spin a case out of nothing for the RIAA, and VPN is just a counter measure, not unlike Anti virus software.

Following your train of thought, the ISP that provides sevice to tpb is "Profiting From Piracy". At what point do you draw the line?
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C.T., 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:36am

Re: Re: Missing the point
It appears that it may be ME that missed the point all along.

I thought the VPN access was something that was directed towards annonymizing traffic only on TBP. I didn't realize it extended beyond that.

My apologies. My conclusions were based on an incomplete understanding of the facts.

With that said, there are still a number of issues that may spring up under TPB's VPN business model, especially if it can be linked to their tracker.
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minder49, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:37am

Re: Re: free as part of a model
Gee, that sounds suspiciously like what the RIAA does! They don't pay for the music either! They recoup the costs, and an outrageously large profit from the artists!

So what is the difference?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:56am

Do you work at home thru a company provided VPN?
What are you trying to hide?
If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear - right?

What? That's different you say?
Really - how so?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 12:18pm

Re:
Remaining anonymous on the internet is not illegal.

Downloading from the internet is not illegal, either.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 12:21pm

Re: Re: Re:
When Obama recently gave Queen Elizabeth an iPod pre-loaded with music, did she pay for that music?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Only little people are held to the law
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 12:47pm

Re:
Lawlessness isn't limited to Africa,

So what's "lawless" about TPB?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 1:09pm

Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
Why is TPB hiding in Sweden,...

Wow. You just can't help yourself from repeating that lie, can you, Harold? TPB isn't hiding anywhere. Period. In fact, they thrive on publicity.

Bookmark another Weird Harold lie.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 1:38pm

Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
What are you hiding from?

Good question, Harold. What are YOU hiding from? You promised to provide your identity but you still haven't done so. So what are you hiding?

Hypocrite.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 1:47pm

Re: Re: free as part of a model
They are just hi-tech fences, nothing more and nothing less.

Weird Harold is just a liar, nothing more and nothing less.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Apr 2009 @ 1:56pm

Re:
Hiding like you, Weird Harold?
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Lucretious, 10 Apr 2009 @ 2:05pm

Re: Re:
yes, its always whitey thats at fault. Not the idiots who have squandered one of the richest continents on the planet.
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Lucretious, 10 Apr 2009 @ 2:07pm

I'm with TPB 100% but I think they probably should've waited on this one until the decision has been handed down.
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Cap'n Jack (profile), 10 Apr 2009 @ 10:47pm

Weird Harold, some of the comments you make do you no good and really do a discredit to any intelligence you have

"Why offer VPN? Why try to offer a way to hide? What are you hiding from? Why is TPB hiding in Sweden, and not operating in any other country?"

They're not HIDING in Sweden, but Sweden is the one place that hasn't been CORRUPTED by lobbyists - although, it's well on the road to that now. They run their site from Sweden because it's legal to run it from there and the corporations don't have as much ability to shut them down.

Let's be fair here - the pirate bay has NEVER hidden. They've always been forthright about their claims, their beliefs, and their attitudes toward file sharing and the law. They have always been right out there in plain site, and have even made strong attempts to aggravate copyright lawyers by sending them frivolous and often hilarious responses.

The Pirate Bay does this because in a fair legal system, their site should be viewed like GOOGLE. You search for all manners of torrents on it, and none of the uploading or downloading goes on through the pirate bay. CONSUMERS make the decision to infringe upon copyrights. If the companies have a problem with this, why aren't they trying to stop it through LEGAL means, instead of crafting the law to their advantage.

The question you need to be asking, Weird Harold, and the question I like you (if you respond to me, answer this) is why is it okay for corporations to influence the law in ways that criminalize people who weren't previously criminals?

"It's all to hide away from the law, because they make their living offering "infringing" files."

Why do you have to be so biased? You're just completely irrational. SOME people here might listen to you if you weren't clearly so one-sided. A rational beings can have two different opinions on two different subjects. A rational person can agree that copyright infringement is not stealing, while still thinking it is very wrong or just as bad for different reasons, for example.

It's funny how mistaken you are. Mike's article clearly says that the pirate bay doesn't make a living off copyright infringement. Lots of their money comes from other means, and they make money off advertisements for hits to their sites.

It's like saying pro-gun sites make money off murder. It's exactly like that. Is that what you're saying?

"Actually, this one has potential - they are now offering services in all of these countries. They are so going to get slapped from this one."

I hope not. I hope The Pirate Bay continues to fight for our freedoms, and I hope people begin to realize who the real righteous ones are in this situation, because the public needs to wake up and start fighting for its rights before it loses even more of them.
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Monarch818, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:02pm

Re: Re:
The Pirates of old, boarded ships to either:
a) Take and Keep the ship for themselves.
b) Take and Keep the goods in the ship for themselves.
c) Take the ship and ransom it off or sell it for payment.
d) Or some of or all of the above.

So the Pirates in Somalia seem to fit that. I'd say the Somali Pirates, deserve the name Pirate. Joe, maybe you should read up on their tactics, it's not small time and all and very organized.

In fact most pirates of old were actually privateers condoned by one country to attack and take the ships and goods of other countries.
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:05pm

Re:
Honestly, when I read posts like yours I laugh out loud.

It's funny how mistaken you are. Mike's article clearly says that the pirate bay doesn't make a living off copyright infringement. Lots of their money comes from other means, and they make money off advertisements for hits to their sites.

First off, let's get this straight: Mike is just a man, like you and me (assuming you are over 18). He can say plenty of things, it doesn't make them true.

The Pirate Bay makes their money by operating a website that offers people direct access to copyright violating movies and music, hacked software, and so on. They make their money because these sorts of files attract large numbers of surfers, and TPB inserts advertising into the pages to make money from their website.

If they did not link to infringing files, they would not have the traffic, and therefore they would not make money. Would you visit if the only thing on there was linux distributions and mods for a few games? Certainly, their traffic would be much, much lower, as would their income.

It's like saying pro-gun sites make money off murder. It's exactly like that. Is that what you're saying?

Nope, it isn't the same at all. No doubt you got that line off of torrent freak. It is pretty stupid. It is actually so stupid as to be unanswerable. Maybe if you made it a "pro-murder" site... different things. If TPB did nothing but explain how P2P worked and didn't link to any files, you might have something. But you are attempting to take something that is two or three jumps apart and compare it to the direct connection between TPB and infringing material.

They're not HIDING in Sweden, but Sweden is the one place that hasn't been CORRUPTED by lobbyists - although, it's well on the road to that now. They run their site from Sweden because it's legal to run it from there and the corporations don't have as much ability to shut them down.

Again, more torrent freak material. Sweden has lax copyright laws (which are being tightened) that had not been updated to address the sort of thing that TPB does. Anywhere else in the world (except for China, maybe Cuba, and maybe Iran) running such a site would get you shut down very quickly. They are hiding there. Any move to any other location would have them in very serious legal trouble. Basically, they site behind their government and thumb their noses arrogantly at the world and play robin hood.

Yet, it has been shown that TPB is taking in millions of dollars every year:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7893223.stm

"But the Pirate Bay's Robin Hood reputation was sullied in July 2007 when a reporter, posing as a potential advertiser on the site, estimated that the site was earning up to £55,000 per month that was being channelled into a front company in Switzerland. "

In the end, they are laughing at you, because they are stacking away huge amounts of money offshore, and at some point they will pull the plug and go live the lives of millionaires, laughing at everyone.

The VPN deal is just another attempt to thumb their noses a little harder, but this one will likely get them in a ton of trouble, because the service is being sold to people outside of Sweden, and further, they are specifically not keeping any logs of use, which may be in violation of the new tracking laws inside Sweden. Their arrogance will make them fall.
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Weird Harold, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:06pm

Re: Re:
All I can say is if you don't know my identity by now, you are truly as dumb as a stump.
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Monarch, 10 Apr 2009 @ 11:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tgeigs
Ah, but the State of Maryland does. The analogy works great when it comes to Red Light Cameras. Many cities and states actually encourage people to break the laws by lowering the Yellow light times. However, many people to admonish them for their underhanded tactics to make money off of infractions.
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xyz, 11 Apr 2009 @ 7:58am

VPN is bad - outlaw it now
The sole purpose of a Virtual Private Network is to provide privacy to the communications within.

... so what do you have to hide?

Why not send your company proprietary information in the clear? If you have nothing to hide ...

Yes, lets abolish all VPNs so that the content folks can better police the net, we need them out there removing the scum and villainy which steals stuff and is bad.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Apr 2009 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Re:
"All I can say is if you don't know my identity by now, you are truly as dumb as a stump."

How about saying your identity?
Yeah, I know who you are: A lying troll.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Apr 2009 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re: Re:
If it's true that everyone already knows who you are then why don't you go ahead and post your identity? Could it be because that isn't true? Lie, lie, lie...
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Apr 2009 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re:
First off, let's get this straight: Mike is just a man, like you and me (assuming you are over 18). He can say plenty of things, it doesn't make them true.

No, WH, you are not just like Mike or me or most other people. You are a professional liar. That's a big difference.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Apr 2009 @ 4:13pm

Re: Re:
...they are specifically not keeping any logs of use, which may be in violation of the new tracking laws inside Sweden.

Another Weird Harold lie.
They are not violating any Swedish laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2009 @ 6:59am

Sweden sees boom in legal downloading
Why are they hiding in Sweden?
Is it the only place that has legalized the pirates and their downloading?
Downloading is evil and must be stopped.

http://www.thelocal.se/18770/20090409/
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Weird Harold, 12 Apr 2009 @ 9:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Baiting. What a fool.
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Weird Harold, 12 Apr 2009 @ 9:26am

Re: Re: Re:
Prove it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2009 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh, you are right ... I think one of them was jaywalking the other day.
Damn jaywalkers
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2009 @ 10:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This is refreshing intellectual discourse at its best.
Thank you so much WH
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 2:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Prove it.

Prove you don't rape little kids.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 3:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
If it's true that everyone already knows who you are then why don't you go ahead and post your identity? Could it be because that isn't true? Lie, lie, lie...
Everybody knows that Weird Harold is a cartoon character from the old Fat Albert cartoon series. So what are you trying to say, that Weird Harold isn't really that cartoon character and is lying about his identity? Wow!
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David, 16 Apr 2009 @ 7:09pm

Re: Re: Re: TPB owns boats ?
Now that's stupid. You don't fear the government? Then you're naive as well. China, Russia, Pakistan and the list goes on. Governments are to be feared and their power to be restricted everywhere as much as possible. People in power, even well meaning people, get corrupted. Government belongs to the citizens not the other way around.

When they come for you at 3am, will you say "I did nothing, I don't fear". When they torture you to find out the location of the nuke they "KNOW" you have, will you say "I did nothing, I don't fear". When they exterminate entire populations because you were unlucky enough to be born into the wrong race, sex, skin color, or god belief system, will you say "I did nothing, I don't fear"?
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No Name, 15 May 2009 @ 2:32am

Unbelievable twists
Personally I must say, comparing TPB to Somali pirates with the little cartoon drawn in their likeness as Somali pirates is not only misrepresenting the issue by populistic arguments.

It is outright offensive.

What in effect they did is calling "Swedish = N***gers" or "All Somali are pirates"

Both statements equally offensive and wrong.
Shame on the media for not having a better command of common sense and the English language.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Dec 2009 @ 3:25am

bunch of fuckwits if u ask me
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