Texas City Councilman Arrested After Opposing Red Light Cameras

from the hush-up-or-you-might-get-a-ticket dept

Thu, Apr 16th 2009 3:08am — Mike Masnick

There's been plenty of debate about traffic cameras lately, with many cities and states rushing to implement them as revenue generators rather than out of any sense of safety. Reader Brad points us to a story out of Duncanville, Texas, where a city councilman spoke up at a city council meeting opposing current red light camera laws, and the mayor had him arrested and removed during the meeting. The story presented at the link may be a bit one-sided (so there may certainly be more to this story), but the council member felt that the redlight cameras were unfair -- and that there were other, better ways for the city to meet its budget. Apparently, the mayor told him if he continued to debate the issue, he would be arrested... and then lived up to that threat. Who knew redlight cameras could be so controversial that speaking out against them could get you arrested?

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Filed Under: red light cameras, texas

30 Comments

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Rog, 16 Apr 2009 @ 4:02am

Big brother's watching you
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Jack Sombra, 16 Apr 2009 @ 4:28am

"mayor had a warrant issued for his arrest."
Curious, since when has a mayor had the authority to invent laws on the fly and then issue warrants to have people arrested for "breaking them"

Would say that is a far bigger issue for the locals than the red light cams
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 4:39am

Re:
I'm sure there are already laws on the books for disrupting council meetings.
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OneDisciple, 16 Apr 2009 @ 4:45am

He should run for President
Wow! we need more like Mr. Ford!!
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Some IT Guy, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:07am

In Texas?
Really? Wow....I thought Texas was awesome....that sux
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Some IT Guy, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:08am

Re: In Texas?
Chuck Norris should come and assassinate the mayor for being such a douche
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:27am

RED LIGHT CAMERAS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN ANOTHER WAY TO SEPARATE US FROM OUR MONEY, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

NOW ARREST ME SO I CAN SUE YOU FOR FALSE ARREST!
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:27am

RED LIGHT CAMERAS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN ANOTHER WAY TO SEPARATE US FROM OUR MONEY, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

NOW ARREST ME SO I CAN SUE YOU FOR FALSE ARREST!
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:34am

Just doing his job
I thought it was the councilpersons job to represent their constituents at such meetings, apparently this is illegal in Texas.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:47am

Upcoming election...
The councilman is up for election on May 9. Perhaps Mike Masnick could do a followup then to tell us whether the arrest helped the councilman or hurt him.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:51am

The red light issue was not on the agenda and the mayor told the council that he will remove anyone that goes off topic. In reading other stories, seems this council member may not get along too well with the mayor.

The mayor is right in the legal sense to control the agenda and going off topic is considered grounds for sanction but according to Texas law, the mayor does not have the right to remove a council member, only a vote by the full council can do that.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 5:56am

doesn't really matter, If they don't get your money at the Red light, They get it from the Speeding camera, or raise taxes, or take money away from Schools etc etc etc.

FIGHT THE POWER!

Or like many in the world, ROLL OVER and GET READY FOR THE POKE!
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Chronno S. Trigger, 16 Apr 2009 @ 6:22am

Re:
Removal is one thing, a warrant for arrest is another.

This sounds like one of those "final straw" things, and the mayor just flipped.
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Overcast, 16 Apr 2009 @ 6:58am

One sided? The guy was arrested for stating his opinion?

Sure glad we live in a 'free' country...
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Geeky Atheist, 16 Apr 2009 @ 7:01am

Videos
Video of him getting arrested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcJyPbLiB8
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 7:13am

Since when is having a debate about city policy at a council meeting "illegal". Seems like abuse of power to me. I see a future election for mayor between this councilman and the mayor.
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c (profile), 16 Apr 2009 @ 7:30am

Re: Re:
Since when is disagreeing with an issue a disruption, comrade?
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FF, 16 Apr 2009 @ 7:37am

shocking
these cameras suck. they're near where i live and i can't stand them. i picked up a gps red light camera detector that works great. check out gps angel.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 8:33am

How can you disagree with something that isn't on the agenda?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 9:02am

Re: Re:
Yes, and the mayor clearly overstepped those too...

RTFA.
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The Mad Patent Prosecutor, 16 Apr 2009 @ 9:46am

Don't know why Mr. Masnick is so against red light cameras and similar measures. I would like one of every corner, and a speed measuring camera every quarter of a mile on every road. On public roads, you must obey the laws, otherwise you should be punished. We are used to thinking it is okay to speed because we feel like it. But, *you* don't drive as well as you think, and I am sick and tired of *you* makeing me unsafe.

Those who claim this is about revenue generation and not public safety are disingenous, since the gap between the two is closed by . . . more cameras! What I mean is this - if a city uses a camera or two, that may well result in more revenue generation than safety. If a city uses a camera on literally *every* corner or every mile of roadway, it unquestionably results in much greater safety. I know if I was virtually 100% certain to get a speeding ticket if I sped even once on the way home from work, I wouldn't take but two or three $100 tickets that first week before I made 100% sure I absolutely *never* sped on the way home again. Anyone who says otherwise is simply not being truthful.
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AJ, 16 Apr 2009 @ 9:52am

Re:
Ok, lets do that, then lets put them in your office, your home, in public parks, lets add mic's to them so we can be sure your not using bad words. Where does it stop?
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The infamous Joe, 16 Apr 2009 @ 10:00am

Re:
You are a fool.

Why stop there? Let's put cameras in every house so no one breaks the law? Shall we discuss the fact that speed limits are too slow? Here in Boston, if someone were foolish enough to drive the speed limit, they'd be putting a lot of people in serious danger. The police certainly don't drive the speed limit off duty or on duty without the sirens, but it would be a cold day in hell before you saw a cop pulled over by another cop-- so it's not illegal for them, just me?

If you ask me (and as of this writing, no one has) we should ditch all speed limits and start issuing a lot more careless/reckless driving tickets. The people driving 80mph in one lane don't worry me, it's the people driving 75mph in all four lanes that worry me.

The reason Mike (and others) are against red light cameras is because at intersections where they are put, more accidents occur. You know this isn't the blatant the-light-was-red-when-I-saw-it running, it's the it-was-yellow-and-just-turned-red-and-I-know-there-is-a-delay-before-they-get-a-green running. The best solution I've ever heard to prevent that is adding a semi-random fudge-factor to timing delays on both yellow to red and red to green, then people would be unsure of how much time they had to run it, and would feel less safe doing so.

That, or get rid of lights all together.
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Hulser, 16 Apr 2009 @ 10:48am

Re:
The red light issue was not on the agenda and the mayor told the council that he will remove anyone that goes off topic.

I'm sure there's more to the story than what's in the article, but it's my guess the councilman felt like he had to bring up the issue the way he did because the mayor wouldn't allow the issue to even be put on the agenda. It sounds like he made the decision and didn't want anyone else to question it, especially in a public forum. Can you see the mayor saying, "OK, next on the agenda is the issue of red light cameras that I railroaded through the approval process using backroom dealings and tacit bribes. Who'd like to comment?"
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Hulser, 16 Apr 2009 @ 11:00am

Re:
Don't know why Mr. Masnick is so against red light cameras and similar measures.

I believe that in previous posts, Mike has stated that red light cameras, as typically implemented, are far less effective than simply increasing the duration of yellow lights. The obvious conclusion is that cities go with the less effective measure because it brings in revenue.

Those who claim this is about revenue generation and not public safety are disingenous, since the gap between the two is closed by . . . more cameras!

You position makes absolutely no sense. The people who believe that red light cameras are more about revenue generation than safety don't base their opinion on some hypothetical model where there's a camera on every corner and every mile of roadway. Their opinion is based on -- surprise! -- the models that are actually in place. Even given the possibility that your model would work, the fact remains that this model isn't being used, so has no relevance on people's opinion of the model that is in place.
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OldGeek, 16 Apr 2009 @ 11:02am

Sounds Right
All I have to say this time is "Welcome to Texas"
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 1:27pm

Re:
and the red lights? people who should go through the yellow lights (because they can't stop safely) instead slam on their brakes so that they are 100% sure they won't get ticketed for running a red light. That cause people behind them to also slam on their brakes, and you end up with a nice long line of people slamming into each other. then when the red light cameras don't generate any revenue and the people have adjusted they shorten the yellow light time and you have a nice repeat of the problem.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 8:55pm

Re: Re: Re:
Since when is disagreeing with an issue a disruption, comrade?

Since the mayor said so, apparently.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 9:01pm

Re:
If a city uses a camera on literally *every* corner or every mile of roadway, it unquestionably results in much greater safety.

Well, you might try to declare it unquestionable, but I'm going to anyway. Too bad. Especially since the available data says that you're full of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2009 @ 9:19pm

Re: Re:
Why stop there? Let's put cameras in every house so no one breaks the law?

Yeah, that's exactly what people like The Mad Patent Prosecutor eventually want. For example, Houston Police Chief Wants Surveillance Cameras In Private Homes.
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