One More Reminder That You Don't Own The Books On Your Kindle
from the ownership:-how-20th-century-of-you... dept
Lots of people have pointed out that one of the massive downsides of an eBook device like the Kindle is that you don't actually own the books you bought. Unlike a real book, you can't share it with a friend, resell it or donate it to the local library. And, in some cases, you can lose access to books you thought you "owned," based on the whims of employees at Amazon deciding you somehow abused their system. One of the big controversies over the Kindle was the TTS feature, which the Authors Guild claimed (without a shred of legal evidence) violated its rights. The Authors Guild had no claim here. It doesn't violate performance rights, because reading aloud isn't a performance. It doesn't violate copyright, because there's no fixed copy made -- and if it did violate copyright, so would reading a book aloud. Yet, for no clear reason, Amazon caved in and agreed to take away this feature.Mark alerts us to the news that, as of May 13th, Amazon began remotely disabling the feature for certain eBooks, including many popular titles. In other words, Amazon remotely took away a feature that you used to have. That doesn't happen with a physical book. Random House doesn't get to say "oh, wait, we're now taking away the ability to dog ear pages." I love the concept of eBooks, but it's quite troubling that you don't actually get ownership of the eBooks you're buying -- and that Amazon can, at its own discretion, suddenly take away valuable features from books you had already purchased.
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Filed Under: books, copyright, ebooks, features, ownership
Companies: amazon, random house
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I smell a class action suit brewing.
You can bet that if Amazon gets sued by the consumers, they will fight back against the Author's Guild.
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Re: I smell a class action suit brewing.
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Re: Re: I smell a class action suit brewing.
I think Amazon would really like to lose that suit but they need it to be able to tell the writer's guild to take a walk.
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Re: I smell a class action suit brewing.
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So let's assume for a second that the right does exist. However, even if it does exist, the publishers are still idiots for taking this action.
People are not huge fans of ebooks and have been avoiding them every time they're tried. I think the publishers should have recognized and allowed audio reading as an added benefit to ebooks, which would increase the value of ebooks to consumers, which would increase the demand for ebooks.
Let's face it, once ebooks are in place and actual books are no longer sold, the entire used book market would collapse and the publishers will likely make tons of money by eliminating our first sale rights.
But instead of thinking long term, they're much more interested in very limited short term profits. Which is simply idiotic.
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No, it didn't. Player pianos are subject to mechanical royalties, not performance royalties. So you're just plain wrong.
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As for the Kindle, it is, quite frankly, a product I would never seriously consider. I happen to be from the "old school" who prefers to have electronic devices for books that mimic "real life" books, i.e., a device that would open up with two adjacent screens that display adjacent pages. There is little that is more frustrating that proceeding from one page to another where important content bridges adjacent pages. In a two display device it is easy to view the adjacent pages and move from one to the other without having to go back to a prior page.
For my money, I may be interested in products similar to a prototype developed by researchers at Stanford that employ two screens. To me this is what an electronic book should look like, though unlike the Stanford prototype I would lose most of the doo-dads that give it a lot of additonal functionality and make the eventual product as simple as possible. Doo-dads can always be added as options. I guess you could say I am a firm believer in the KISS principle.
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Link please.
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http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/15713/16737/dual-display-ebook-reader-concept.phtm l
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Assuming technological limitations can be overcome (battery life, durability, etc.), I would be intrigued to see the impact devices such as this would have on the printed textbook market. Instead of +50 lbs. of college textbooks, imagine all these books on a single memory card. Add a few doo-dads like the ability to write notes, highlight text, search pages, etc. and in my view it could turn out to be one heck of a useful device.
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Re:
That sounds strangely like the way organized crime gangs work.
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That which you do no physically posses you cannot physically defend.
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Copyright violation
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With that said however, how will this effect the blind who may have purchased a Kindle to supplement their available choices? Does this represent a performance when the person is incapable of actually reading the text themselves?
Just a thought...
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Re:
ebooks are not a replacement for real books. real books are cheap, high resolution, some what waterproof, can be signed by the author, and can be considered disposable if you are not attached to them.
real books are also bulky (try carrying a few in a bookbag or moving a few thousand to a new apartment), not searchable, tough to distribute, and expensive.
yes, i said books are cheap and expensive. one paperback book is cheap to buy (compared to a computer, phone, or dedicated reading device) and easily traded/sold/donated; a few hundred books are expensive to transport, store, and distribute.
ebooks are great at doing the things that real books are not good at. ebooks are terrible at doing the things that real books are good at.
the same can be said for music and movies. according to some, there is nothing quite like vinyl or the theater.
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I agree and also would say that in the cases you reference; essential alternative to the bulk. I wish ebooks were available when I was in college as my back would be much healthier for having used them; believe me...
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Re: Re:
Also when you buy a physical book you just own the paper and ink, not the content. For example it is illegal to xerox a book, or make movie out of it.
Mike, stop being a drama queen!
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Drama queen comment notwithstanding. :)
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reading: You can make a robot (the same one that reads the physical books) read a kindle too :)
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I think that's the point that's trying to be made.
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...and they are quite free to compromise among themselves before they release a final product. But, retroactively removing features the customer's already paid for? Even if a successful lawsuit is not forthcoming, the result of this decision can only be that people are dissuaded from buying a Kindle or similar device in the first place.
That's the major criticism here. Although the companies may be within their "rights" (though the question remains how far they can devalue the customers' own rights in the process), that's not the point. The point is that it's bad business to do this sort of thing to your own customer base. That and the fact that most of these companies try to add even more restrictions after they lose money, rather than recognising the cause and effect after customers have been burned once.
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Don't buy a Kindle
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Pay for it, get screwed. Get it free, got it made.
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Not all eBooks are created equal.
This issue is Amazon/Kindle specific. I live in no fear of losing the books I purchase for my CyBook Gen 3, in fact, since it acts like a portable hard drive when connected to my computer, even sharing a book with a friend is possible. (although, illegal unless I delete my copy, I suppose)
On a side note: I never once read a book because I wanted to smell or feel the book. Not once. I also dislike getting ink on my fingers because I want to read The Hitchhiker's Guide again. I read a book to read the book. In this way, eBooks are perfect for me because all the "pros" of dead tree books (as chris stated above)are things I care nothing about. Plus, I can carry around 2,000 books quite easily. (Though it occurs to me that reading 2,000 books would be a very daunting task-- perhaps overkill.)
The real question is: Where is the uproar from the bookshelf industry? :P
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http://xkcd.com/488/
I guess this is inducing infringement in the eyes of **AA and The Authors Guild and not free speech.
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Too bad really
As long as this is the case, the Kindle will remain an attractive piece of tech with a fatally flawed implementation. A shame.
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Re: Too bad really
Heh, that's what you thought.
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Too bad really
As long as this is the case, the Kindle will remain an attractive piece of tech with a fatally flawed implementation. A shame.
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UPDATE: NO THEY DIDN'T
So the remote disable scenario is still just "theoretical" at this point.
I just don't get what the concern is about. I listen to audiobooks. They are done by voice actors, who put inflection and change their voices for characters. You can't tell me that a TTS program can compete with that, and that they're actually threatened by this?!
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Re: UPDATE: NO THEY DIDN'T
Guess who is the biggest vendor of audio books in the US- Amazon's Audible.com.
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re:never
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Re: re:never
Flying 14 hours from DC to the Far east requires more than a single book. And believe it or not, I actually prefer reading books on my Kindle than on paper. And per title, I typically pay LESS than a paperback. Of course, the payback is like $.50/book, so it's gonna take years to get back my initial investment (notwithstanding the payoff for travel).
Your point about theft/damage is definitely valid, I do worry about that, and rarely spend the time to backup my Kindle books. Not really an issue with my bookshelf at home...and if I lost my power adapter....bad juju.
I guess I'll take my chances though. I love the damned thing.
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Re: Re: re:never
My Kindle has paid for itself (as expensive as it is) many times over.
Then you said
Of course, the payback is like $.50/book, so it's gonna take years to get back my initial investment (notwithstanding the payoff for travel).
So which is it? I smell a shill.
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Re: Re: re:never
My Kindle has paid for itself (as expensive as it is) many times over.
Then "Scott" the Shill sez (in the same post):
it's gonna take years to get back my initial investment
Hey Scotty, tell your boss Bezos he needs to employ a better astroturfing firm.
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Re: re:never
Um, college students, engineers (like me) who have a lot of manuals, etc., in PDF/DOC format, doctors, laywers--anyone with a lot of case material to review. Expand your brain a little. Not everyone is exactly like you.
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wrong argument
Finally, people seem to have a dire need to conflate two issues. The device is NOT the book. Buy a kindle, go to manybooks.net, baen.com, fictionwise.com, or any of several other sites and buy DRM free material for your kindle in mobipocket book format. Get the mobipocket reader and convert PDF based books, .DOC files and other things to read on your kindle.
Do NOT complain about the device, it is not the issue. If you dislike having your 'book' rights restricted, do complain about DRM media or buy different books. By the way, DRM existed way before the kindle on mobipocket format as well as other readers.
I would expect that DRM is supported on the Kindle as that is the only way Amazon can get books on the kindle. A reader without books isn't very useful and tends to have low sales numbers. If publishers demand restrictions (e.g., Random House) and you need their catalog of books ...
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Re: wrong argument
Yes sir! I'll never let it happen again, sir! /sarcasm
You can go climb a tree.
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TTL
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Who would want this?
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Re: Who would want this?
Right now I have a device smaller than a paperback book that has two books (non DRM, via Baen.com) I'm reading for pleasure, several hundred pages of specs I'm reviewing for work, a handful of admittedly lower quality MP3s, and the ability to look-up simple things on the internet for free (IMDB, google). It also has several text files referencing 'fixed' data like birthdays, DVDs I'm missing, old/out of print books I want to buy used, etc. Basically things I like to have when I'm not near a computer to look it up online (I could use the browser but the data is pretty static so I loaded the text file).
Sure I can do all that crap much better with my laptop at about 5-10 times the weight. Or I can use a smart phone with the itty bitty screen (my old eye can't cut it). But to be honest, the book/spec reading would be worse, the kindle does do a good job there. The bottom line is I never did it with the laptop, too big of a pain in the butt to drag around for 5-10 minute stints of reading. I don't do it with the smart phone, screen sucks. I do use the kindle to review the specs etc. in spare moments.
Fly much? I can easily go through 4-6 books on a coast-to-coast round trip set of flights. Given the allowed size of carry-ons, which do you think is better, 6 paperbacks or one kindle. (haven't actually flown with the kindle yet, I HAVE tried the 6 paperbacks).
Who wouldn't want one?
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Re: Who would want this?
Because there are so many other, more important, upsides.
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violation of ADA?
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Re: violation of ADA?
Bottom line, all books I have bought from Amazon still have text to speech available. I believe that some titles may change states in future sales (TTS avail if purchased before xx/xx/09, not if purchased after) but I have not heard of a previously purchased book changing TTS availability.
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book ownership
We have let our rights go and soon will not even have the ability to get them back. We need to wait to buy until they provide what we want. That is consumer power. To stop consuming. We can't yet be forced to consume. There is an interesting scifi story written a long time ago which depicted a world where people were required to consume. Are we there yet????
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It is very much part of the issue. It is tethered to Amazon and they have twice now employed retroactive control over completed purchases.
It's bad enough to buy into a techology with the spectre of natural obsolescence. Now we are not being allowed to trust things to continue to work as advertised/intended/expected right out of the box!
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Re:
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Reading, Aloud or Allowed
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Thanks to all for the DRM free sources.
I will be looking there. The nice thing about the Sony is the memory slots. Now I don’t have to figure out how not to pay for extra baggage space. Now if I could only print these things... I am still concerned over the loss of tangible goods.
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My choices are made eyes open and I don't get hysterical when people decide to change things for BS reasons. I just move on.
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Re:
So you're saying the DRM is optional? Pray tell, where would one get the same books Amazon sells with DRM without DRM?
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Let's see the publisher's reaction to that one, shall we?
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Re:
While not exactly cheap, they already have such devices. Some of them even automatically turn the pages.
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Visually impaired people need this feature - Shame on Amazon!
Where Amazon is blowing it by caving in on the book reading portion of the book, is that for many people in the above category, the only way they can "read" the book is to listen to it. This was such a great feature for the functionally blind, and it is shameful to remove it. The copyright laws need to be changed to specifically allow this kind of of text to speech capability.
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Re: Visually impaired people need this feature - Shame on Amazon!
Two words: reading glasses.
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Re: Re: Visually impaired people need this feature - Shame on Amazon!
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No Kindle for Me!
If this kind of thing is allowed, where something I purchased is then taken away from me, doesn't that set a precedent for other purchases I've made? What about my laptop? Is the company I purchased it from going to be able to come after me and remove or disable components on it, at will?
What about my cell phone? Will the company I purchased it from be able to come after me and remove or disable certain components that came with it when I purchased it?
What about my Wii? Are they going to be able to come after me and remove or disable certain components because of an arbitrary decision?
I hope someone at Amazon.com gets a clue.
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Owning Digital Products
Rick
Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc.
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Re: Owning Digital Products
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DRM and Ownership (and Kindle)
It's not particularly hard to see Kindle as just a tool for reading books from Amazon library (even with misleading advertisement) the real problem is that it's too expensive for that matter. You can go to the conventional library for free and Kindle's 300-something dollars price point (plus 10-20$ for each book) does not justify itself especially with the cheaper UMPCs/Netbooks available. The only plus of Kindle against some Netbook is eInk technology (which shouldn't really be that expensive).
Basically the whole argument about DRM revolves around "OMG I bought it! But I can't put it in my microwave because I don't really own it." And that's the whole point - why exactly do you need to OWN the stuff? My suggestion is leave the DRM in place but rebrand the "bookselling" service as a "booklending" service. And lower the damn prices a bit. For example, 1$ for any book for a month. After that make the downloaded copy unreadable by device. A month is ok for any book and 1$ is ok even for residents of poorer countries.
You still can't give to a friend, yes. And that's what you can buy the paper version for - to OWN it and to SHARE it as you see fit.
Get over it, guys - ownership is overrated. Trust me, you won't even finish 90% of the stuff that seems ok on the first glance.
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After reviewing the conversation here, I'm much relieved. it sounds like a lot of people, as is common on the internets, are over reacting. I want the books that i want for the words themselves. I'm not buying an audiobook, i'm buying an e-book so that i can stick to my multiple series without having to carry around all my massive books.
and i can purchase a new release for ten dollars instead of way more than that for a bulky hardcover version that is difficult to handle while reading.
I'm glad to have found out in advance that the TTS feature may not last, but i will still buy a Kindle. Not because its cool, but because its convenient. The idea that i can, for free, read the first chapter of a book before deciding to purchase it is great and will help me expand my reading horizons. I am an intelligent, if not modest, guy who would get much use from this device.
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It took me two years to even be able to find the reader.
Now, DRM makes all this an annoyance, you know, actually being able to read the books you like. Fortunately our laws allow us to strip DRM (and you automatically get an unlock code for your DVD player here, making it region free) and convert the files to whatever format needed to be able to view our purchase. Of course we're not allowed to distribute, but we ARE allowed to take the steps necessary to actually use the product we paid for.
This, more than anything else, makes DRM a null issue. If I couldn't strip the DRM from a product I legally bought and paid for, I'd just download a copy. I mean, I already paid for the product, right?
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