What Happened To 'If You Didn't Pay For It, It's Stealing'?

from the except-when-we-do-it dept

Wed, Sep 9th 2009 12:16pm — Mike Masnick

For years, the entertainment industry has pushed a propaganda line in its "education" programs that are used in schools: "if you haven't paid for it, you stole it." Of course, that's not actually true. But, if the entertainment industry wants to claim that, shouldn't it live by those rules too? Apparently, the managing director of Dutch anti-piracy group BREIN, that's currently involved in numerous lawsuits against file sharing sites, is happily talking up the fact that he now has possession of a laptop from a "hacker" and that it was confiscated from that hacker. So, clearly, BREIN didn't pay for it. Doesn't that mean it was stolen by their own definition? While the police may have the right to confiscate goods, BREIN is not the police. It's a private industry organization, that claims it's against theft, but doesn't seem to mind participating in "getting things without paying for it" when it has the chance.

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Filed Under: anti-piracy, computers, file sharing, propaganda
Companies: brein

62 Comments

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Joseph Durnal, 9 Sep 2009 @ 12:35pm

I didn't pay to read this blog
I must have stole it.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 12:36pm

Stupid Peasant!
If you make an unauthorized copy of something, it's stealing.

If I physically take your laptop, it's for great justice!

Look at the lights. Tell me how many you see....
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 12:38pm

Er?
How straight forward is this story, Mike? I can't click through, so I have to know.

"Apparently, the managing director of Dutch anti-piracy group BREIN...is happily talking up the fact that he now has possession of a laptop from a "hacker""

Unless you're omitting the end of that sentence and it reads something along the lines of "...and he was subsequently arrested for tampering with evidence of a crime, receiving property used in the commission of a crime, and obstruction of justice." then I don't see how this is anything but a perfect example of how govenments around the world are turning towards a form of corporatocracy.

Industry groups with policing authority? What is this, Tank Girl?
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 12:45pm

Re: Er?
"Unless you're omitting the end of that sentence and it reads something along the lines of "...and he was subsequently arrested for tampering with evidence of a crime, receiving property used in the commission of a crime, and obstruction of justice." then I don't see how this is anything but a perfect example of how govenments around the world are turning towards a form of corporatocracy. "

Um, even if it did end that way, it' shouldn't make a difference.

"Industry groups with policing authority? What is this, Tank Girl?"

Nope, Judge Dredd. Welcome to Megacity One, citizen.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 12:45pm

Re: Er?
"Although he doesn’t elaborate on how he obtained the machine, it is hard not to conclude that it has been misappropriated."

Beginning of the article

"The laptop was given to him by one of the parties involved in the case who received it as compensation."

Update to the article. I don't see how that's possible since it is evidence and property used in the commission of a crime.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 12:47pm

It's only stealing if you're a poor and powerless person, rich and powerful people don't steal no matter how much they take that doesn't belong to them and they don't murder no matter how many people they kill unjustifiably.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:22pm

How reassuring to note continued reliance on a site that has not investigated how this might happen consistent with law. Also nice to see that the linked site continues in its fine tradition of presenting "articles" having absolutely nothing to do with the downloading via P2P of unauthorized content. Hey, why talk about a real issue when you can talk about an irrelevant one?

I have to admire the persistence of those who frequent this site and try to play "lawyer". These same ones who cry "it is not theft, it is infringement" are the very same ones who say "it is not infringement, it is sharing".

Quit wordsmithing and admit what it really is...you have made a copy of something knowing full well that it is illegal to do so without the permission of the rights holder. If you choose not to call it stealing, then so be it. But get off your high horse and admit you have broken the law and what you have done is wrong no matter what feel-good term you may choose to use.
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David (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:26pm

Geez Louise
This is another tempest in a teapot. The article says absolutely nothing about how BREIN got the laptop. ALL it says is he is using one that was "confiscated from a hacker". As DH above pointed out it could have illegally been given to BREIN by the police, or BREIN could have bought it at a police auction. WE JUST DON'T FUCKING KNOW.

Mike needs to have a delay added to his "submit" button.
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slacker525600 (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:29pm

surprised nobody has pointed out the obvious
they did pay for it.

They may not have directly paid the police for it, but they most certainly contributed money to a number of campaigns and/or organizations. How else do you think they got the laptop?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:30pm

Re: Geez Louise
A mere trifle. Suggesting someone did something wrong is a whole lot more newsworthy than actually trying get the facts. Never let it be said that facts should ever get in the way of forming an opinion.
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slacker525600 (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:32pm

Re: Geez Louise
even if they did buy it at a police auction, the hard drive should have been wiped. They most certainly dont own the licenses for any software on the machine. And the evidence for any prosecution should not be available to open bidding (no matter how much I like open markets).
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:39pm

haha little did they no about his custom bios rootkit. That hacker is still hacking them prison.
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Bubba Gump (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:43pm

Re: Stupid Peasant!
THERE ARE _FOUR_ LIGHTS.
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Me, 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:55pm

Re: Geez Louise
And tomorrow Mike will post an article about how blogs are so much better than newspapers, are more factually accurate, do more fact checking, the usual line, and the people here will slurp it up, forgetting this post today.
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Belle de Monarch, 9 Sep 2009 @ 1:59pm

Re: "How reassuring to note...."
My darling "How reassuring to note", I am no wordsmith, nor am I a legal commentator, but I take a few minutes to visit this site as it raises some important/interesting social questions in relation to our techno-culture many enjoy debating - it's not hurting anyone, oh and may ask why you were visiting when you hold so much disdain for the article writer? Oh that's right, so that YOU can 'wordsmith' and 'try to play lawyer', hmmmmm are you giving Michael yet another example of 'you can't do it but I can?' Anyway - perhaps you should just quiet down and re-read the article - sure it makes mention of the fact that the writer doesn't agree with the entertainment industry's perspective, but the actual point he is trying to make is about how a company can get a hold of something that does not belong to them - i.e. 2 wrongs do not make a right, and isn't that just a little bit hypocritical. Instead of all of us getting off 'our high horse' (which I am sure none of us are actually on, rather it's just a small soap box that allows people an opportunity to fairly discuss our opinions about the matter at hand) and perhaps you could get your head out of the sand and think with a little heart and soul - corporations should know better.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Geez Louise
"... and the people here will slurp it up"

Your mom slurpped it up....
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:03pm

AC#1, you should be concerned and get off your own damn high horse.

"Kuik added, noting that he couldn’t give out any more info because of the type of people his organization deals with."

When someone asked you where you got a piece of music or a book does that sound like the response someone who used legal means to obtain it would say?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:04pm

Re:
How reassuring to note continued reliance on a site that has not investigated how this might happen consistent with law.

Heh. Take a look upwards... way up... see all the way up over your head? That's "the point" that you missed.

I'll lay it out for you now. It's the copyright industry that has publicly stated "if you didn't pay for it, you stole it." That's obviously ridiculous. There are (as you note) plenty of ways that you could get something without paying for it "consistent with the law."

So the entire point of this post was not to suggest that BREIN *illegally* got the laptop, but to mock the claim of BREIN and its partners that "if you didn't pay for it, you stole it."

Reading comprehension is such a rare thing.

Also nice to see that the linked site continues in its fine tradition of presenting "articles" having absolutely nothing to do with the downloading via P2P of unauthorized content.

Huh? Is there some rule no one told me about?

Hey, why talk about a real issue when you can talk about an irrelevant one?

I am talking about a real issue. Keep up.

I have to admire the persistence of those who frequent this site and try to play "lawyer". These same ones who cry "it is not theft, it is infringement" are the very same ones who say "it is not infringement, it is sharing".

Again, start over. Try figuring out the point first.

Quit wordsmithing and admit what it really is...you have made a copy of something knowing full well that it is illegal to do so without the permission of the rights holder.

This post has nothing to do with that, as you yourself pointed out. So why are you bringing it up?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:09pm

Re: Geez Louise
This is another tempest in a teapot

Yes, exactly. That's the whole point.

The article says absolutely nothing about how BREIN got the laptop

It says it was taken from the hacker. The hacker was not paid for it. By BREIN's own definition, then, it was "stolen."

Yes, the very point (which wooshed by you, apparently) is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why the laptop may have been confiscated and why BREIN may now possess it. But, it's BREIN and its buddies who state "if you didn't pay for it, you stole it."

The point of the article is to show how sill that is.

I'm not saying that BREIN got the laptop illegally. I'm using its own logic, and showing how messed up it is.

I would have thought that folks around here would be able to figure that out. I guess I shouldn't have overestimated some of you.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:09pm

Re: Re: Geez Louise
A mere trifle. Suggesting someone did something wrong is a whole lot more newsworthy than actually trying get the facts. Never let it be said that facts should ever get in the way of forming an opinion.

Ok, again, for the slow pokes. I wasn't saying BREIN did something illegal. I was using *its own logic* back against it.

Didn't realize I needed to spell this stuff out.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Geez Louise
"Yes, the very point (which wooshed by you, apparently) is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why the laptop may have been confiscated and why BREIN may now possess it. But, it's BREIN and its buddies who state "if you didn't pay for it, you stole it."

The point of the article is to show how sill[y] that is."

Kind of scary to see how many people missed that point, isn't it? An indication that the war being waged for the minds of the masses is being lost, perchance?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:20pm

Re: Stupid Peasant!
THERE ARE....FOUR LIGHTS!
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Glaze, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re:
Bravo Mike, Bravo!
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Glaze, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
i guess it takes the few of us who post discussable comments rarely to get the "point". Who wants to play mad libs?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
"i guess it takes the few of us who post discussable comments rarely to get the "point". Who wants to play mad libs?"

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or insulting me, bu either way, the answer to your question is an unqualified hells yes!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:30pm

YouTube is theft
I watched a few videos^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H stole $160,000 in property on YouTube this morning.
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TW Burger (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:32pm

Devine Right
Obviously BREIN believed it has far more morality than any of us so they can do whatever they want. Isn't that the definition of a religious cult?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:34pm

Since the linked article provides not a whit of information concerning how the company happened to get the laptop, it is impossible to say with any intellectual honesty "See, they are hypocrites!"

It is illogical to suggest:

1. The company says "If you didn't pay for it, you stole it."

2. The company has a laptop that was once owned by a "hacker", with nary a mention about how it came into its possession.

3. In view of 1 and 2, the company must not have paid for it and thus stole it.

Sorry, but the logic or this illogic escapes me.
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Glaze, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
it was an agreement... sorry sometimes i lose it... but since you are the Mad Libs genious post away...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re:
"Reading comprehension is such a rare thing."

Apparently critical thinking is even rarer...
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WammerJammer (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:37pm

Aren't you glad you don't live in Europe
Thank God I live in the United States where cops are fat and happy from seizure money. Hell in Texas they get so much they loan it to the other cops. It's great to take what's not yours. Also cheap.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 2:39pm

I just love it when Mike gets in one of his moods...
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 3:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
(A shout out to Angry Dude Mad Libs Post for typical story response, including mis-punctuation and odd capitalization)

PUnky,

won't somebody just steal this [adjective][adjective] blog and Shut mIke the fuck up? He's a [noun] that never invented anything

The only PEople stealing is the [adjective] hacker who [adverb] stole using his laptop.

Why all you lemming techdirt [noun]s go [verb] your [noun]s in the [noun] until they [verb], you [noun]-[adjective]ing [noun]s!
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Matt (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 3:09pm

Re: Re: Er?
How do we know it was used in the commission of a crime? Because bunglehead says it belonged to a hacker?

Decode "parties involved in the case who received it as compensation". I'm guessing this means one of two things: either it was received as part of a judgment by some company that sued the "hacker," or the "hacker" paid his lawyer with it. Either way, that person then gave it to the idiot.

This is too bad, but not hypocrisy. The same could be done (without raising claims of piracy) with a CD and perhaps with non-DRM digital music (do we know if the first sale doctrine applies to an MP3?).
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Matt (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 3:17pm

Re:
I, for one, agree that copyright infringement (however labelled) is presently illegal. That is a travesty, but I think Mike and others would agree that it is the (bad, ill-advised, poorly drafted) law of the land.

I do _not_ agree that it is "wrong." Clearly, your normative framework is different from mine. Mine has the benefit of all of human history less the last 200 years to recommend it, among other things, but we can agree to disagree.

As for whether copyright infringement is "theft" - it clearly is not, because "theft" requires depriving the owner of ownership. The copyright industries have waged an apparently deliberate war on the English language, attempting to inflate the rhetoric. There are some who have a problem with this. In politics, the words you use can make a difference.
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David (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 3:35pm

Re: Re: Geez Louise
Nope, sorry.

"It was once confiscated from a hacker" is all the article says. That's it. Not "taken" or "stolen".

Now, it could mean that the police handed it over with out apparent due process, etc. Or, it could mean that the hacker was arrested, his computer confiscated, then, after the trial, sold at auction. Or something else. WE DON'T KNOW.

That's the point, not whatever bullshit you are trying to peddle.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 3:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
Now, it could mean that the police handed it over with out apparent due process, etc. Or, it could mean that the hacker was arrested, his computer confiscated, then, after the trial, sold at auction. Or something else. WE DON'T KNOW.

Um, but we do know: Confiscated means it was not paid for.

And, again, using their own logic, that means it was stolen.

That's the point, not whatever bullshit you are trying to peddle.

David, thanks, but I'm pretty sure I know the point of my own posts. Until we hire you to tell us what the point is, I'll assume that my knowledge of the point is a lot more accurate than yours.

Thanks for playing, though.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 3:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
THEM STEALERS ARE DESTROYING THE COMPREHENSION INDUSTRY!!!
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Me, 9 Sep 2009 @ 4:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise
Very clever. Was that before or after she pulled the dildo out of your ass? You're so witty, having a conversation with you must be about as exciting as talking to Rain Man. He seems interesting at first, then you realize he's a fucking retard. By the way, when Mike finished shooting his load into your mouth, did you have that big old shit eating grin on your face that you're obviously sporting now? Asswipe.
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bidpicture, 9 Sep 2009 @ 4:44pm

The Law
Ah! All hail the law and the corrupt greedy politicians that make it and the corrupt legal system that administers it. Lets all bow down to this almighty law. Lets ignore JUSTICE and let the corrupt greedy selfish Recording Companies keep on stealing from the ones not equally protected and represented by "The LAW". (artists and fans) Lets ignore that we don't really need the RECORDING COMPANIES, they are dying like dinosaurs. What value do they provide???
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 7:27pm

"And, again, using their own logic, that means it was stolen."

In techdirt jargon, steal is equated to unlawfully taking away the property of another.

Since this device was likely confiscated within the bounds of law, then certainly the confiscation would be outside techdirt's use of the word steal.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 8:28pm

Re:
Since this device was likely confiscated within the bounds of law, then certainly the confiscation would be outside techdirt's use of the word steal.

Yes, indeed. That's the exact point. Glad you finally got it.
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RD, 9 Sep 2009 @ 8:47pm

And...
"In techdirt jargon, steal is equated to unlawfully taking away the property of another."

Yes, and its also the "jargon" of something called Copyright Law. You should look up its precepts and understand them before trying to be clever again.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 9:54pm

Re: Re:
I see. The current laptop possessor has "stolen" it because it was apparently lawfully taken by law enforcement officials. Your point is not exactly on point in that they use the word steal to signify acts that are not lawful.

So, if I understand correctly, lawfully taking possession(of a device) is the equivalent of unlawfully taking possession (of a content file).

Sorry, but your point is not exactly jumping off the page at me.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Sep 2009 @ 9:59pm

Re: And...
I haven't the slightest clue about the point you are trying to make.

BTW, I have studied copyright law for more years than I care to count. It is fair to say that I well understand its precepts, doubtless in much more detail than what I presume is the amount of time you have devoted to its study.

Would I be wrong in assuming you are not an attorney, much less one steeped in the copyright law, both from a statutory and historical perpective?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Sep 2009 @ 10:24pm

Re: Re: Re:
I see. The current laptop possessor has "stolen" it because it was apparently lawfully taken by law enforcement officials. Your point is not exactly on point in that they use the word steal to signify acts that are not lawful.

Heh. Okay, for the really slow pokes, let's try this again:

1. I am NOT saying the laptop is stolen.
2. BREIN and other organizations put out propaganda with the line "if you haven't paid for it, you've stolen it."
3. That point is obviously false.
4. To prove that it is obviously false, I'm showing that BREIN got a laptop that was taken from someone without paying for it, and no one in their right mind would think it's "stolen."
5. But, based on BREIN's definition, it must be.

Got it? I'm not knocking BREIN for taking the damn laptop. I'm using it as an example of why their claim "if you haven't paid for it, it's stolen" is obviously false.

Can't believe I needed to spell that out again.

So, if I understand correctly, lawfully taking possession(of a device) is the equivalent of unlawfully taking possession (of a content file).

Um. No.

Sorry, but your point is not exactly jumping off the page at me.

Obviously.
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Luci, 9 Sep 2009 @ 10:40pm

Re: Re: Re:
That's because you fail to read the article in its entirety and attempt to understand the point Mike makes. Sorry, not going to explain it to you. Mike's done that so many times, already. I'd suggest taking five minues and reading.
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Luci, 9 Sep 2009 @ 10:41pm

Re: Re: And...
No, but apparently you're a jackass. Congrats, you rank up there with every lawyer I've ever met.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Sep 2009 @ 3:18am

To those who don't get the point
WOW!!!

Are you really that dense? My God, my brain physically hurts from reading your stupidity.
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Lisae Boucher (profile), 10 Sep 2009 @ 3:18am

Explaining how you can get a laptop from a hacker.
In the Netherlands, the police can take away items used by criminals to commit their criminal acts. These items will not be returned to their owner but are stored by the police until a judge determines that these items are permanently confiscated.
So, what does the police do with these confiscated items? Well, some items are just destroyed. But if the item itself is legal, then they're sold again to civilians. For example, though the site at http://www.domeinenrz.nl/ which, as you've guessed, is written in Dutch so most of you need a translator to visit it. ;-)
The "Dienst Domeinen" in the Netherlands is responsible for selling these items through all kinds of auctions. Basically, anyone can visit such an auction and place a bid on any item they're selling. Thus, it would be perfectly legal for Tim Kuik to visit such an auction and thus buy stuff that previously belonged to a hacker.
Right now, you can buy an Aston-Martin if you want to. About four years old and only used for 32.118 KM. Then again, they also sell plenty of laptops, so if you need one... Go visit the Netherlands and buy one at the next auction! ;-)
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Hazmat, 10 Sep 2009 @ 6:19am

Explaining how you can get a confiscated laptop from a hacker - part 2
Yes, they might have gotten it from an auction. And they might have obtained it when they assisted the FIOD-ECD in one of their raids. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIOD-ECD)

It's like I accuse my neighbour of a break-in of my house.
I then go with the police in the apartment of my neighbour
and point out various things that I think the neighbour
stole from me.

Great gig if you can get it.

Hazmat
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RD, 10 Sep 2009 @ 7:48am

And...Redeauxbag
"I haven't the slightest clue about the point you are trying to make."

Of course not dear. Otherwise, you wouldnt be the troll you are.

"BTW, I have studied copyright law for more years than I care to count. It is fair to say that I well understand its precepts, doubtless in much more detail than what I presume is the amount of time you have devoted to its study."

Apparently not, since you fail to understand the difference between theft and infringement, and the legal standing of each. Regardless of how you FEEL about it, they do have different definitions in law, and laws are all about this kind of specificity and differentiation in meaning. You dont need to be a lawyer to understand this, or to be able to discuss it.

"Would I be wrong in assuming you are not an attorney, much less one steeped in the copyright law, both from a statutory and historical perpective?"

Would I be wrong in assuming that you are an arrogant, elitist attorney who thinks he is better than everyone else and that no one should dare discuss a topic unless they have made a career of said topic?

I'm so glad the founding fathers werent someone like you, or we would never have the great country we have now.
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HolaJohnny (profile), 10 Sep 2009 @ 8:19am

Re:
Oh good we have another AC/Shill.
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iNtrigued (profile), 10 Sep 2009 @ 9:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise... by Me
I believe you just showed yourself to be the "Asswipe." I would argue that any of them, as you call "fucking retard"(s), are about 10 folds more interesting than you.

Look at me, I can use words like "dildo", "ass", and "fucking," I sure am interesting.
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iNtrigued (profile), 10 Sep 2009 @ 9:31am

Re: Re: Re: Geez Louise - Dark Helmet's MADLIBS
PUnky,

won't somebody just steal this [hard][floppy] blog and Shut mIke the fuck up? He's a [banana] that never invented anything

The only PEople stealing is the [boring] hacker who [amazingly] stole using his laptop.

Why all you lemming techdirt [leaf]s go [run] your [iPod]s in the [umbrella] until they [spelunk], you [consultant]-[maroon]ing [calculator]s!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Sep 2009 @ 10:23am

Nothing quite like stating a mantra used by rights holders, taking it out of context by ignoring clearly implied (and in many other aricles stated explicitly), and then twisting the mantra to make a point that rights holders most decidedly are not making.

I do understand the point being made in the above article, however it is my opinion that it is little more than linguistic gymnastics that is disingenuous and intentionally misleading.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 10 Sep 2009 @ 12:30pm

Re:
Now, now, don't get so defensive. It's ok to admit that you were wrong.

Nothing quite like stating a mantra used by rights holders, taking it out of context by ignoring clearly implied (and in many other aricles stated explicitly), and then twisting the mantra to make a point that rights holders most decidedly are not making.

But it is the point they were making. We took it straight from an "educational lesson" that was being given to schools, where there is no implication otherwise. It clearly states "if you haven't paid for it, you've stolen it." It seems quite reasonable that these groups would live up to their own definition, right?

I do understand the point being made in the above article

Yes, you've proven that time and time again. However, seeing as it's been spelled out for you, in big bold letters, multiple times now, at some point we're just going to have to conclude the problem is you, not us.

Having had these discussions with you specifically in the past, perhaps it is not a surprise that you are unable to comprehend such things.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Sep 2009 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re:
Thank you very much for pointing out to me my apparent inability to comprehend your points.

Of course, they would be much easier to comprehend if they were directed to a substantive matter, and not just another attempt to inaccurately flame and mischaracterize copyright law and rights holders.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 10 Sep 2009 @ 11:04pm

Re: Re: Re:

Of course, they would be much easier to comprehend if they were directed to a substantive matter, and not just another attempt to inaccurately flame and mischaracterize copyright law and rights holders.

The only one mischaracterizing copyright law is the folks like BREIN who claim "if you didn't pay for it, it's stolen." Funny... don't see you attacking them or posting one of your "merely FYI" posts there...

Wonder why not?
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Sep 2009 @ 8:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Merely FYI [ ;) ], many folks, myself included, are not "attacking" the quote primarily because it is intended as a broad, generalized statement placed into layman terms. As with any such statement it can be parsed to the point that the original meaning and intent is changed 180 (BTW, it drives me nuts when I read that something was changed 360).
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2009 @ 1:40am

Reality Check
I am just a random reader that got bored on the Internet one night and really have no idea how I ended up on this site. You can respond to this but lets face it I will probably never see the response so why bother? And really I am not intending to hurt feelings or pick sides. The reason I am saying all this is simple, I want to show everyone who frequents this site I am in fact completely unbiased. Oh and sorry for any grammar mistakes/run-on sentences, I am no English professor. I am a Janitor and a Medic in the National Guard.
The topic at hand is an argument concerning The acquisition of a hackers laptop, which the term "hacker" in this day in age is probably someone who just downloads music. It is obvious I would like to point out that the article is incomplete and heavily opinionated. So why may I ask is everyone freaking out at each other, and so passionately arguing over such pointless information? I am one who is very fond of intelligent debate, however any debate that strays from logic, That involves heavy name calling and responses based solely on emotional responses to taunts, or that has to present itself with flowery speech or honeyed words to boost personal ego's, Is a total waste of the intellectual time of everyone involved, as nothing productive will come of it(great now i am doing it). It is the fatal sin of bureaucracy.
Too put it in plain speech as all knowledge should be. If someone writes something you disagree with, step back, count to 10, try to see it from the other side of the fence, and if you still disagree then state your opinion but keep things civil. Or as your mothers probably always told you when you were little...Play nice children. :)
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