Is There Any Innovation That Hollywood Won't Try To Kill?
from the can-you-say-moral-panic? dept
It's well known how the MPAA tried to kill of the VCR (well, Betamax, originally), with Jack Valenti declaring: "The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone." As William Patry's new book details, Valenti and the MPAA have been masters of creating moral panics -- bogus, hyped up threats to make legislative response seem not just palatable, but desired -- that do nothing more than try to protect an old, decaying business model from innovative competition. Given that history, it's worth pointing out that it appears to be happening again with Redbox, the DVD vending machine business, that's taken the video rental market by storm. We've covered this story since last fall, when NBC Universal tried to figure out a way to stop Redbox from renting its movies. It gave Redbox a long list of ridiculous ultimatums, and told distributors not to sell to Redbox. In return, Redbox sued Universal. Since then, 20th Century Fox and then Warner Bros. joined in. Sony and Paramount are the only studios enlightened enough to do deals with Redbox.But, that hasn't prevented the moral panic lobbying/promotional campaign from gearing up -- though, at least some appear a bit skeptical about it. The NY Times has an article that goes through the details and notes that Hollywood lobbyists have been working over time to convince the press to complain that Redbox rents R-rated movies to children. And they're also trying out some ridiculous claim about how Redbox is going to put studio plumbers out of work. Seriously. But, just you wait and see. It won't be long until articles start appearing claiming that Redbox kiosks are a threat to our children, since they can rent R-rated movies (the fact that these same kids can access whatever websites they want in the privacy of their own homes, with content much more graphic than any R-rated movie probably won't be mentioned).
But, of course, that's purely a moral panic -- and one that Patry even predicted in his book. What Hollywood and its lawyers are really worried about is that they don't get the same monopoly rents on pricing of DVDs. Once Hollywood got over its totally bogus fear of the VCR, it eventually embraced the idea of "windows." It's basically an attempt to do what economists call differential pricing -- where different people pay different amounts for the same basic product (or perhaps in slightly different forms). Classic differential pricing is a good thing in economics, if done right, because you can actually better optimize the market -- selling expensive (high margin) goods to those who will buy them, but making additional money on lower priced/lower margin goods to those further downstream, thus (in theory) maximizing profit.
Hollywood's version is a bit mucked up, of course, because it often will seek to abuse its monopoly position to squeeze excess rents out of the market with the government helping it -- and thus it freaks out when any sort of innovation (the internet, rental kiosks) come along. The real fear is that by introducing $1 rentals as soon as the DVD is released, it will cut into DVD sales (why buy at all when it's so cheap to rent?) and rentals from places like Blockbuster, who have worked out revenue sharing deals with the studios. So, once again, rather than compete in the market, Hollywood's lawyers are trying to convince the press and politicians that Redbox DVDs are "a threat to your children." But this is the exact same sort of "folk devil" that Patry describes Hollywood trumping up with every kind of technological innovation. Hopefully, we're smart enough not to fall for it this time.
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Filed Under: dvds, innovation, moral panics
Companies: redbox
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Bluebox
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There is no hope.
Corporations have the money,
money = power,
power = laws,
laws = government.
Therefore, Corporations = Government.
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Smart Enough?
We are, but I doubt any politician is.
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Re: Bluebox
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RE: Smart Enough
The moral panic bit is sensationalism at it's worst. I use RedBox, Netflix and MovieCube (I haven't rented from blockbuster in years, they're horrible), to screen movies, and catch some of them as soon as they're out to watch them again (if I saw them in the movie theater), I've done the same with HBO, Showtime and other chans. And IF I like the movie enough (and I have the money), I buy it. Two weekends ago I bought Dark Knight and Iron Man. I had the money, and both were a lot of fun.
The corps and their lawyers need to get their collective heads out of their asses.
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And thus, a theater screen will be built at the base of Mount Rushmore.
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You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
The point being that Redboxen around here won't rent to minors AT ALL. Disney, G, whatever, no rental for minors.
Please reply if you've seen it work differently.
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Re: You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
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Re: Smart Enough?
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The devil
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Re: Re: You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
But U.S. law says that minors cannot enter into agreements, so they "cannot" have plastic money of any kind. (that's my argument and I'll abandon it as soon as is convenient.)
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What's R rated? Let me ask anyone...If Goonies came out this summer would it be PG or PG-13?
Mouth talking about coke and heroin in one sentence is worth an NC rating these days.
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Re: You need a credit card
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Gammar Nazi alert
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Re:
Have you read the book? I've read it twice and I see no such mention.
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Your Answer, Sir...
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seen a red box near here
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Re: Re: Re: You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
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Re: Re:
"...in the book (page xviii), I point out that those who oppose copyright owners' recent efforts use their own rhetorical devices, "The purported folk devils employ their own rhetorical devices, describing copyright owners as dinosaurs, Luddites, and evil monopolists out to squelch freedom of expression, and out to force corporate culture down the public’s throats.""
And, no, I have not as yet read his book. However, I am well familiar with his work and views, and well understand the frustration he feels given the direction that copyright has taken, particularly since the 1976 act went into force and the amendments that have followed.
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Ex Pirate
That's one dollar every rental from a pirate,..That's progress!
If they kill the $1 rental options, I'll go back to pirating and they get nothing out of it.
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Re: Re: You need a credit card
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Re: Re: Re:
Such sentiments do not appear anywhere else in the book -- which is entirely devoted to showing how the copyright industry does this.
To claim that he paints both sides of the debate with such a brush is false.
And, no, I have not as yet read his book.
And yet you have no problem claiming to tell us what it's about?
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patry in publishers weekly
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6694762.html
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
All the railing in the world is not going to change the direction of copyright law so long as those favoring its expansion have the ear of Congress and those favoring its contraction tend to limit their arguments to other forums outside of Congress.
There are means at hand, basic legal doctrines, that can be used to scale back excesses, but they will largely be ignored until such time as someone comes forth and begins presenting the other side of the issue(s) to Congress in an effective manner. Mr. Geist in Canada seems to do this with some measure of success. What is missing is one of equivalent stature and persuasive ability here in the US.
He and I agree that both sides have engaged in the creation of "moral panics" (rhetoric), and as a consequence intellectually honest debate on substantive issues has largely fallen by the wayside.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
I'm With Avatar28 on this one, if its enough proof for the porn, gambling, anything subscription industry, then it should be enough for a Disney movie.
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Redbox is actually good for the industry (IMHO)
If I don't like it and don't buy it, what has it cost the industry? Nothing. In fact, it is profitable for them if they get the $0.10 or whatever from Redbox. If I do, they get (a percentage of) the purchase price from me.
Seems like a low risk for a reward scenario to me. (Unless the movie industry is concerned that all there movies are trash and no one will buy them after seeing them. Could that be why I haven't purchased a DVD in, I don't know, a year or two?)
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Fallacy of Logic
This is irrelevant and falls under the two wrongs don't make a right fallacy.
The funny part about "But, of course, that's purely a moral panic" is that you both calling out their fallacy of logic and incurring another on yourself by being dismissive.
The whole analogy to the VCR is a fallacy too - that was a fair use issue, not a distribution issue.
I am OK with Redbox. I have no objection to it. I guess the real issue is that industry isn't receiving some amount of profit from it. And yes, that may mean a decrease in labor wages (although not for the stars).
But on the moral issue, its pretty evident from my personal observation that media influences children, children mimic media, and that children end up harming themselves or other physically or emotionally. That doesn't mean we should censor everything. But we should think twice about how children circumvent parental and guardian supervision.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
Want to smoke? OK.. how about the entire pack in one sitting. Sorry if it made you puke, but you will never do that again will ya. LOL Want to play with a match... Watch as that match burns up half of your prized possessions in the back yard. Want to Want to steal money? Spend the weekend in jail...
My kids learn the hard lessons when they should... as children. This way they know better and make better decisions later in life. My oldest just graduated from Special Forces training and is on the road to being an upstanding soldier and citizen. He learned a lot of hard lessons. But I feel it is only fair to teach them early so they do not learn more mortal lessons later in life. remember... dumb decisions can get people killed.
As for the rental program... I think it is fine as is. Unless you are a pantywaist that cannot properly train your children. Electro-shock therapy is standing by for you.
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Re: Re: Smart Enough?
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All of this is moot...
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Re: Redbox is actually good for the industry (IMHO)
I still agree with everything else you said about why Redbox is good for consumers and bad for movies that suck like a Hoover.
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Re: Fallacy of Logic
No, it's not. The point is that it's pointless to plug a tiny hole in the dam if the whole thing is falling down. Besides, this ignores three things:
1. The MPAA system is VOLUNTARY. There is nothing illegal about renting R-rated movies to minors. I could stop here, but here are two more issues you have ignored.
2. As mentioned several times above, Redbox requires a credit card, which means that, at some point, an adult consented to access to those funds by a potential minor.
3. Blockbuster allowed parents to approve a child on their account to rent R-rated movies. I was (still am, actually) a horror buff when I was in junior high/high school, and my name was approved for R-rated rentals everywhere my parents had an account. So, Blockbuster also rented R-rated content to children. If you give your kid a credit card in today's world, you ought to know that you are opening up a whole world of access for them.
"The whole analogy to the VCR is a fallacy too - that was a fair use issue, not a distribution issue."
Wrong again. This is a fair use issue. Namely, the "right of first sale" doctrine.
"I am OK with Redbox. I have no objection to it. I guess the real issue is that industry isn't receiving some amount of profit from it."
Last I checked, Redbox PURCHASED the movies they rent. Which means, hmm, oh yes, that the studio IS profiting from it.
"But on the moral issue, its pretty evident from my personal observation that media influences children, children mimic media, and that children end up harming themselves or other physically or emotionally."
Well, good thing that your opinion does not equal law, since study after study has shown the opposite. Just search the many examples on Techdirt alone. As an example, I watched horror movies all through my childhood and up through today. I have never harmed another human being (or animal, except for hooking fish and hunting occasionally). I have a healthy marriage, three well-behaved children, a steady job, and by most people's standards, a pretty "boring," squeaky-clean lifestyle. So, no, I would not say that violent media has caused me to follow its influence and harm myself or others.
"That doesn't mean we should censor everything. But we should think twice about how children circumvent parental and guardian supervision."
Yeah, because kids NEVER circumvented their parents' wishes until Redbox came along. How about this? If you don't want your kids to have access to adult material, start by not giving them a damned credit card. Then, don't put a TV or computer in their room. Put them in the public rooms of your house, where you can keep tabs on what they're watching. Sure they'll get around it, but by not allowing it in the house, at least you are taking a stand a making a statement about what is acceptable.
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Fools...
Choice a) 10% of profits from rentals on-line
Choice b) Watch and cry as we pirate the hell out of their kit because we can't afford to spend $200 a pop for a family to go and see it in the cinemas.
And don't give me that BS about it being due to lack of profits from VCR/DVD/BLAH. No company can net 200million from a flick and say that their not getting their fair share of profits.
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Re: There is no hope.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You need a credit card to rent movies from Redbox in Kansas City, MO.
Don't get me wrong, though, I think using the "kids will get R-rated movies" argument is insanely bogus. Just pointing out that having a debit card is not proof of age.
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Re: Fallacy of Logic
It was a distribution issue, just like the "piracy problem" the industry blusters about now is really a distribution issue. Piracy is always what they scream about but their real problem is they are afraid of losing their tight control over distribution. That's why they, without exception, fear and fight new technologies until they can figure out some way to lock them down so only they can use them to distribute.
"I guess the real issue is that industry isn't receiving some amount of profit from it."
Which is a BS issue. Why is the industry entitled to an ongoing cut past the sale?
"its pretty evident from my personal observation that media influences children, children mimic media, and that children end up harming themselves or other physically or emotionally."
Well, it's evident from my personal observation that such influence is vastly overstated. Now, let's deal with as close as we can get to facts and truth rather than each of our own highly inaccurate observations (inaccurate since neither of us have even observed a random sampling of behavior, let alone all of it, so both of us are suffering from selection bias.)
And the closest we can get to truth and facts are that numerous credible studies show that there is little, if any, causal link between dysfunction and exposure to certain kinds of media.
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Re: Fallacy of Logic
Anyone tried parenting yet?
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lessons kids learn
This RedBox idea sounds great, I'm assuming even if a minor could use a card (as they would be able to here) the principles used for cigarette machines would be adopted, clear signs with the consequences printed and supervision. If they're in Supermarkets there is security based on the door generally and they would have the authority to ID someone they feel is underage. Simples!
Obviously the loss in 'kickbacks' (contracts) from larger video stores and higher priced outlets may be damaging to profits but is it likely it would hit them so hard that they wouldn't be able to function? It all seems a little daft and most probably blown out of proportion.
These arguments and debates must be had though, in re to the 'moral' elements, if no-one discussed it at all there would be an outcry from grassroots and then a scandal because it hadn't been considered in the first place.
There doesn't seem to be a lot to this argument and therefore I predict it will be short lived.
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I coudn't agree more...
Here at my place there's no such thing as redbox, but with the rental of $1? that's a great idea, as it could help prevent piracy, since pirated movies at my place is around $2-4 (converted currency).
And why the heck do they panic about these trivial stuff? Its not like everyone buys a DVD, right? I know I don't, I only watch on cable, so it won't hurt them a bit.
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Re:
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Re:
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