Another Battle: Can Teachers Sell Lesson Plans?
from the so-first-we'll-learn-that-1+1-equals-2 dept
I missed this last month, but a friend sent over a NY Times article looking at the growing practice of teachers making additional money by selling lesson plans. Marketplaces are emerging, and teachers who have crafted smart and useful lesson plans are able to earn extra cash, while other teachers who are looking for help in crafting smart lesson plans, or understanding what kinds of lesson plans work gain the ability to learn from others, rather than starting from scratch. However, there's a problem (isn't there always?). Some school districts are upset that the teachers are selling lesson plans, believing they deserve some of the "cut." Thanks to our "ownership society," we've built up this belief that every idea must be "owned" and if anyone makes money, others come grabbing as well.Of course, while the article doesn't go there, I would bet that a growing number of teachers are seeing value not just in "selling" lesson plans, but posting them publicly for free. In doing that, you can get better feedback and open a nice discussion among other teachers to share what they all have learned, and create a better overall lesson plan that helps everyone out (especially the students). In fact, the more you think about it, the more you realize that expecting teachers to keep coming up with their own lesson plans entirely separate from what thousands of other teachers are doing, seems positively backwards.
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Filed Under: copyright, lesson plans, markets, teachers
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Should schools get some of the money? Yes! The schools pay the teachers to prepare for lessons, so the schools own any materials the teachers produce.
Anyway, shouldn't lesson plans for schools come as part of the standard curriculum? They should even get (optional) Powerpoint slides, if you ask me.
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It's bad enough we don't pay these teachers enough, but you are suggesting that they are somehow paid too much by the suggestion that they aren't entitled to making money on the side.
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^^ THIS ^^
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Wrong. I have two friends who are teachers. The majority of their time OUTSIDE of school is spent grading papers and writing lesson plans. There isn't enough time in a school day for a teacher to be writing lesson plans while at school. Teachers get, at most, one prep period during the day.
The schools do not PAY teachers to WRITE lesson plans, they PAY them to TEACH lessons. Lesson plans are written on the teacher's own time.
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But when they don't, you are saying the school should get a cut of what the educator does on thier own time because it didn't come with or was not adequet to educate the students, right?
But if the school had bought a better book the educator wouldn't have to do it.
So when you figure out a tool to make your job easier, because what your boss gives you is works but not well, you are saying that your boss owns that tool, right?
Yes, educators do get time off and we are all jealious but they also have to put in a lot of personal time. The first time they teach a class, for example, they need to setup thier lesson plans... on thier own time. If they instead were given the same old class every year, they would be able to recylce thier previous materials with no sacrifice of personal time.
So I don't understand how anyone can say that it is not thier own IP able to be done with as they wish.
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If the employee used company time or equipment to develop the plans, then the employer can make a claim of ownership. If not, then not. (If these teachers are like the ones I personally know, then they didn't develop those plans on the school's time or using the school's equipment.)
This assumes there is no contract specifying otherwise, of course, but you should NEVER sign a contract that gives the employer blanket rights to your work.
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NO
And no, teachers aren't "salaried" in the sense that most normal industries think.
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Re: NO
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Employer owns it
My contract said anything I invent while employed (even while sat in the bath) belonged to them. Once, frustrated that an idea of mine was not going to be pursued by them, I tried to have them agree to release it so I could pursue it in my spare time. They weren't exactly reluctant on principle - it was just that the paperwork to do so legally was too much effort.
If the teacher did it as part of the job then the school should own it. But if the school is paid for by the state then the state owns it. The school might even (with the "marketisation" of education) prefer that "competing" schools did not get access to these lesson plans but that really would be insane.
But if the schools were fiercely competitive private schools we'd fully expect these things to be kept secret, wouldn't we ?
What if the teacher instead claimed to have a separate evening job creating lesson plans for money and happened to use these products during the day too (at no cost to the school, which should be grateful, surely ?).
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Re: Employer owns it
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Re: Employer owns it
Hey, if I work in a repair shop, and one day I invent a new kind of shock absorber at home, the repair shop owns it? Because, you know, they are paying me. To fix cars. And change oil. And stuff... so therefore by your logic if I design a complete car from scratch they should own it.
Or, maybe, just maybe, if I worked as a CAR DESIGNER in an CAR DESIGN company, any CAR that I DESIGN would belong to them? Since, you know, they pay me to DESIGN CARS?
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Makes no sense
Well if this is the case then teachers should be compensated for this time or at least be able to claim time spent talking to parents, grading papers, creating these lesson plans, etc. etc. etc. against their taxes.
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Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
The simple act of cashing the check is acceptance of this fact. Any iodiot that thinks otherwise is eventually going to spend many thousands of dollars finding this out the hard way...
Good luck to those idiots that think that just because they invented something outside of the office that relates to their work that they own it. ESPECIALLY if they are salaried (meaning get paid a fixed amount without specified hours.)
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Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
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Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
Show me where the law says that if you are paid by someone they own you and everything you do? Are the school districts directly paying towards their student loans or fronting money for the education?
Oh and Teachers have specified hours, they choose to get things done on their own time.
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Re: Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
I agree completely with you, and not the other AC. As yet another individual pointed out, teachers are NOT paid to develop lesson plans, which are kind of like fancy notes, they are paid to teach. So, if a teacher creates a lesson plan, more than likely on personal time, then not only does the lesson plan NOT fall under work for hire, it was never paid for by the school.
Lesson plans created by teachers, particularly if created on their own time, belong to the teachers. The school districts can kiss off. My bet is that courts will side with the teachers.
However...expect schools to start asking teachers to sign contracts saying anything they create to assist them in teaching belongs to the school. It is coming.
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Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
I think of it this way: If a physics teacher invents a perpetual motion device at home and then uses that device at school during a lesson to help his students understand the concept, does the school own the invention?
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Re: Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
This has a large body of court rulings about it. The AC is right in a sense, but wrong as stated.
In general, the courts rule that the employer owns the work if the company paid for it. "Paid for it" obviously means direct payment such as wages, but also indirect payment such as providing the resources used in developing the work. this is where it can get a little vague, as "resources" can, under certain circumstances, include specialized knowledge.
If, however, you develop something on your own time (salaried or not, doesn't matter), using your own equipment and resources, your employer has no claim on it unless you've given him such contractually.
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Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
". ESPECIALLY if they are salaried (meaning get paid a fixed amount without specified hours.)"
No one in the public school system has a contract that doesn't specify their hours idiot. That is why I have to be here no later than 7:30 AM, I can't leave until 4:30 PM, and I don't have to come in between the dates of May 30th and August 10th.
Every teachers spend hundreds of hours a year beyond what their contract state they owe, writing lesson plans, grading papers and in many cases preforming "extra duties" like working concession stands and going on class field trips after their normal hours. They aren't compensated for this time and their salaries are already among the lowest in our society. And now fascists like you want to make sure that they aren't even afforded the opportunity of making some extra income from their endeavors? You sir, disgust me!
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Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
Software I create on my own time for me is mine. My company has no rights to it at all.
Some places may have language in the contract signed upon being hired, but certainly not all, and I'd be surprised if it was most. Even then most rulings require that the ownership is only on things directly related to the job or resources gained from having the job.
As an aside, you may want to look up the meaning of work for hire. It specifically pertains to the work the company hires you to perform, not anything to may do from the date of hire.
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Re: Look up the meaning of WORK FOR HIRE
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Figures...
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Forget good work then..
My Wife is on her 7th year teaching and it amazes me the comparison between the hours or work she puts in each night and weekends preparing and other teachers who "Coast" along with the same old stuff..
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I'm curious
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Re: I'm curious
What a lit teacher does in their own time, creating non-work related material has nothing to do with their work. They have all the rights to their own non-work creations. It doesn't matter if they share it in class, they are just granting rights for that moment of use.
Lesson plans are an integral part of the work they do, developed for their work and more often honed AT their work.
If they were building fences on the weekend, the schools would have no rights. But in developing teaching materials (especially if the materials relate to their exact current curriculum) pretty much looks like the work they are contracts to the school to perform. At that point, the school certainly has some rights, as teachers are in a 'work for hire' situation.
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Re: Re: I'm curious
To use your own words: Nothing like trying to confuse things.
Poetry is integral to a lit teacher's work. Painting is integral to an art teacher's work. Both teachers hone their skills AT their work.
For a lit teacher, it may not be so difficult to write a few short verses in iambic pentameter and use those verses as a teaching aid for a poetry lesson. What you're saying is the school owns those verses and if they happen to be published, according to current copyright laws, the school should receive royalties (i.e., a cut on every sale of a copy of its property).
Wrong.
If this was the norm, then every textbook out there that was written by teacher is the intellectual property of the school that employs that teacher. Clearly, this is not the case.
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not all teachers are under contract
As a teacher of 9 years I can say teachers are provided a curriculum of what subject matter they need to teach. They are entirely on their own to figure out HOW to teach it. Lesson plans are written and discarded all the time and modified. They go with the teacher when they change jobs, because not every lesson plan can work for every teacher, or even every class. I was never paid to write lesson plans, I was paid to teach. Planning periods are used to update grade books, do paperwork, call parents, and prepare for lessons, not write lesson plans.
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Re: not all teachers are under contract
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Why not go the distance the other way?
Teachers create lesson plans to help manage their own workload. It's a personal productivity device, it's not owned by the state or the school district. Now, if you were hired by the district/ state SPECIFICALLY to create lesson plans, I'd say you're stuck. However, teachers are paid to teach. The formulation of that strategy is their own creation, not subject to control by external entities.
Put another way, what if a teacher can effectively teach without a lesson plan? If it's optional, and it isn't part of their rating as a teacher, then again, the state/ district should jump off a cliff right after the greedy corporation.
Pardon my language, but the response should be, "Go f#@k yourself, you're not getting a f#@king dime, and if you try, I'll sue the district into the f#@king ground, you greedy c#$%ks$@#$@#$ng pigs."
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Re: Why not go the distance the other way?
last time I checked most teachers had to work at home after hours - with no pay - making lesson plans, crafts, and buying goods from their own wallet to be able to provide some basic class tools to assist in their job -
I think the teachers should charge for this to the school district.
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First off, teachers are not in a technical field and thus the idea if IP isn't the same. This is further proven by the fact that the school board already tells the teacher what they have to teach. A teacher is given a list of things that their students must learn by the end of the year. In some cases, they are told when in the year they should be teaching it.
So, they haven't come up with the material. What they have come up with is a way to present the material to their students in an engaging manner so that they learn it.
I would like to point out that teachers DO NOT have to do this. Remember back to school. I'm sure you remember the class that was so boring that you just wanted to skip. And I'm sure you remember the classes that you couldn't wait to go to. Spending that extra time to make the subject engaging is what separates a bad/average teacher to a great/amazing teacher.
But they aren't given money depending on how great of a teacher they are, or how engaging their lesson plans are. So why shouldn't they make a few extra bucks on something they put a lot of work into that the school board doesn't even care about. Perhaps if the pay was based more on how much a teacher put into teaching, they wouldn't have to sell their lesson plans on the side!
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I have to agree that teachers who go the extra mile should be able to profit off of their own hard work. Bureaucracy doesn't promote merit, and (in a fantasy world) it would be nice to see the lazy folks slip away while those who put out an effort are rewarded. Maybe if the hardworking teachers could profit by their extra effort, more of the mediocre teachers would take an interest and start putting out more of an effort. Enthusiasm can be very contagious if it is encouraged.
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That being said, the school systems have a point here. Although it seems wrong to me, our laws seem to currently suggest that if someone comes up with an idea during the course of their work for a company, that idea is often owned by the company. If these teachers would have come up with these lesson plans had they not been teachers, this may be a different discussion. However, it seems questionable to say that the work they were being paid to do did not have a significant impact on their ability to come up with the lesson plans.
I don't agree with the schools that are doing this, but the schools systems can make a pretty good case that they should be treated like any other industry and the work being produced by their employees - in the performance of their job functions - is work for hire and they are entitled to exclusive rights to it. A court ruling against the schools may be setting a precedent that could have a huge ripple effect in other areas.
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Lame anologies
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Re: Lame anologies
Lame? Lame.
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State Employee
I think one of things forgotten about w/ teachers is that they get 3 months a year off. The time they spend at home grading papers and such is because they get 3 months off a year. Also teachers can make their after hours work as hard or as easy as they like. Don't complain about all the after hour work grading papers if you're the one giving yourself the work.
And I don't care HOW you use your planning time, if they give you time during your work day TO MAKE PLANS, then if the teacher makes lessons plans the state should own it. It doesn't matter that you use that time to grade papers or call parents. That time was specifically set aside to make lesson plans. If you choose to use that time for something else that is your choice. The plans should also be made free to all other PUBLIC schools in that state.
Last time I knew, teachers HAD to have a lesson plan turned in to the school, at least in the states I've lived in.
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Re: State Employee
But, if they do that, they will have to work during the summer break right? Because the summer break exists because teachers spend time during the session after hours grading papers and making lesson plans.
Hmm, well if the teach will have to work, I suppose all their students will need to come to class since they will probably need it anyway.
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Re: State Employee
Furthermore, if you want to dip into the "3 months" teachers get off, then you are now required to work on holidays and weekends. Oh, that's not fair right? Well, the goddamn kids aren't in school, so what are they going to work for? Ok, year-round school now, right?
"Don't complain about all the after hour work grading papers..." Seriously? That's your stance? "Don't give my kid homework if you don't want to grade it" is the stance you're taking? I can't believe someone would even suggest that my wife wants to sit home and grade papers instead of playing with our own 2 children. Are you bitter? Did you have a teacher not like you? School isn't just about what is taught in a class. Parent's have to be involved as well. If a parent isn't involved it reflects on the child's classroom demeanor and grades. So by this simple statement alone, you're insinuating that you're child will not be successful in school.
They don't give you planning time "TO MAKE PLANS" they give you planning time to prepare. You cannot write lesson plans in 30-40 minutes. Impossible. A full day of teaching requires several hours of preparation. Not to mention grading papers, calling parents and having meetings with the school administration.
You, sir, are misinformed and need to take a professional day to sit with a teacher and enjoy the 10-12 hrs of work a day, and at the end of it- you can also be under-appreciated and under-paid. I hope you enjoy it!
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Teamwork developing lesson plans, or whatever
Teachers most often work alone. When developing lesson plans for general use they need to be tested, revised, and used by more than one teacher. They need a development team. Most of the time in my experience various teachers want to be paid for lesson plans and for helping things along. That generates frictions and teachers continue to work alone - with some excellent teaching results and a LOT of indifferent results. If you want a better education system then you need to work on such parts of the system.
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Education Schmeducation
In fact, many schools already have detailed curricula that they expect you to use. While this may actually help the teacher with prep, it's a dis-incentive to creativity; if the teacher doesn't even own the stuff they invent above and beyond the curriculum, or are given grief for teaching outside the box, why should they even bother?
But of course schools claim to applaud teacher creativity - yeah, it's great as long as they don't have to pay for it, and it makes them look good.
And let's not forget the teacher unions, which strive to maintain the status quo at all costs, so that incompetent teachers have lifetime employment. Hooray!
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Lesson plans distributed for free
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Quit complaining, if you don't like it.. don't be a teacher
People are already realizing that teaching blows as a job and there is a teaching shortage in certain places. Let the market make things better. If there are no people who want to be teachers then the market will most likely improve to get people to be teachers. If you don't want to be a teacher, go work at McDonald's.
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Asset Thieves
The law is pretty clear that the teacher's lesson plan is their property and it should stay that way. The people doing the grabbing are just like those who want to grab inventors property rights and TechDIRT seems to be run by and heavily populated by entitlement minded asset thieves who suffer from the "Little Person Syndrome":)
Ronald J. Riley,
I am speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
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Teachers are already sharing
Curriki is a great clearinghouse of completely free lesson plans, along with a commenting and rating system.
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again.. quit complaining...
Everyone is always whining, it's a entitlement society.. just like the schools feel they are entitled to money from the lessons plans (which I don't think they should be entitled to, I personally think the plans should be made free because they were made on tax payer money).. the teachers feel they are entitled to a bunch of things. I think the teaching profession is in a horrid condition.. thus I would never GO INTO TEACHING!!. I just wish people would take responsibility for their choices in life.
I'm not saying teaching is fair, I'm saying you chose that as your profession and you should have known this going in. If you're complaining about grading papers don't give the kids so much homework. My point isn't about being a GOOD teacher, my point is that there are things teachers CAN do about it. If they chose to go above and beyond, that's their choice.
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Exceptional Teachers
School administrators are often washed up jocks who just didn't make the grade. Many go into teaching so that they can continue to relive their glory days being big fish in little ponds. They often are the dredges of the teaching profession and become classic examples of the "Peter Principle" in that they go into administration.
They use their position to lavish fund sports while leaving teachers without need supplies. Many of those teachers buy supplies which should have been supplied personally.
Their lesson plans are their property and if they can sell them and recoup some of the money their have spent over the years on supplies or the value of the time they have spent doing things above and beyond their duty why shouldn't they do so?
The problem with many TechDIRT members is that they do not understand property rights, ethics, or morality. It seems that TechDIRT has far too many members do not recognize that it is OK to use what is conferred to public domain by the owner but not OK to use that which is not.
Ronald J. Riley,
I am speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
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intellectual property rights for teachers
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cute
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Master of vocation
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Lesson plans and other materials are a work made for hire if (1) the product falls within the kind of work the employee is employed to perform, (2) the production occurs within authorized work hours, and (3) it is actuated, at least in part, to serve the employer.
In Shaul, the court ruled that lesson plans drafted by a teacher in his home after school hours, which were designed to be used in class, were works made for hire and belonged to the district.
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underpaid
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newest jordan shoes
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I probably have a couple thousand dollars worth of district approved, pre made lesson activities and worksheets sitting in my school closet that I will never use because they simply don't work for me or my students. I'm very good at what I do and other teachers often ask to use the materials and handouts I've developed. I've always just handed them over without a thought. Maybe what education needs is an outlet for private development of good teaching materials and strategies. Products get better as they are tested on an open market and competitors find ways to do things smarter, cheaper, and better. Why not use this idea to improve educational materials? I would welcome another source of effective, reasonably priced, educational lessons. One of the big things often overlooked in this argument is that the customers buying these lesson plans are going to be other teachers. Teachers often use hundreds of their own dollars each year buying supplies for their classrooms including posters, decorations and supplemental activities and workbooks. I know I have. The few dollars I might make selling my lesson plans will most likely be used to fund items necessary to run an effective classroom.
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RE
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href="http://sauberestrinkwasser.com/wasserfilter">Wasserfilter
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Teachers can be sued for giving away other people's property!
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Audience Response Rental
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Ecommerce Australia
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