Utah Wants To Own State Microbes; May Demand Royalty On Any Products Developed

from the all-your-bugs-are-belong-to-us dept

Thu, Mar 4th 2010 10:20am — Mike Masnick

This one's from about a month ago, but I can't find any info on whether or not the bill has gone anywhere. It's yet another crazy proposal coming out of the Utah legislature, which seems to really lead the field in crazy proposals out of state legislatures. This one, sent in by Kevin Cummings, is about a proposed bill that would effectively grant Utah control over the state's organisms/microbes. Seriously. Apparently the legislator wants to create a patent-like regime that would force anyone to pay up if they made anything with Utah organisms:

"If they're using Utah organisms, we think Utah as a state should benefit from royalties. Like a patent," said Sen. Lyle Hillyard

Of course, that's a total bastardization of what a patent is for. A patent is supposed to be a limited incentive to invent in an effort to promote the progress -- and, in exchange for the patent, you're supposed to teach the invention. None of those other aspects apply to what Hillyard is discussing here. There is no limit. There is no incentive (if anything, it takes away incentives from doing stuff in Utah). It doesn't promote progress (just giving money to the state) and there is no teaching or disclosure involved. In other words, it has all of the worst parts of a patent and nothing good at all. It's basically a blatant money-grab, highlighting the concept of ownership culture, where people try to claim ownership of things that cannot and should not be own-able.

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Filed Under: microbes, ownership, patents, utah

53 Comments

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Krish (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:32am

It's tithing for microbes!
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Tom Landry (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:33am

How does one differentiate a "Utah" microbe from, say, an Idaho Microbe? Do Utah microbes attend Mormon church masses? Do they have well coiffed hair?

I wanna know dammit!
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wheatus, 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:42am

If....
this passes, will it mean that if I poop at a rest stop in Utah whilst on tour, that Utah owns the IP on my turd? I'll have to hold it 'til Arizona? *sings Public Enemy song* BY THE TIME I GET TO ARIZONA!!!!

That's a shitty law,
bbb
wheatus.com
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:50am

and I thought East Texas was bad.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:53am

Re:
Utah microbe is cow shaped, duh.
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Dave (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:55am

Big Sigh
As a Utahn, I don't know why we elect these wackos. Seriously, none of my neighbors or anyone else I've talked to support these positions. Why do our represetatives?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:57am

Re: Big Sigh
"As a Utahn, I don't know why we elect these wackos. Seriously, none of my neighbors or anyone else I've talked to support these positions. Why do our represetatives?"

Because those positions were discovered upon golden tablets perhaps?
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Sergio, 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:58am

Really?!?!
Wow, that sounds like it could be straight out of The Onion!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:11am

Liability
Wouldn't that make Utah liable for any illness caused by microbes in Utah?
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:15am

Cooties
Not only has Utah admitted it has cooties, it wants to keep them all for themselves.
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andrew johnson (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:21am

and how is this news?
One of my first introductions to the process of government came in the form of Boys State. Although I never did quite understand the goal of this program, it did, in my opinion, provide a very realistic portrayal of government at large. Basically the whole program consisted of granting a large group of adolescents free democratic reign over anything they could think of. Inevitably the week started off with countless proclamations of ownership over the atmosphere, the universe, and everything and everything else.. before promptly settling at a point just above absolute chaos.
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Dave (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:21am

Even Bigger Sigh
I know your are just trolling, so I probably shouldn't even reply, but I know for a fact that my church has not advocated patenting microbes. Or warrantless searches. Or global warming denial.

You may have legitimate critisms of my religion, but I doubt any of them have a place in this discussion. Don't group it with these neo-conservative nutjobs.
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DS78 (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:23am

SO....
If I get sick in Utah can I sue the state? JW
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senshikaze (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:25am

Re: Even Bigger Sigh
agree. that was completely unfair.

Though Utah does seem to have alot of nutjobs in high places.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:26am

Re: SO....
I have to admit, a coworker just mentioned that as we were talking about this. Would any kind of illness caught in Utah be a liability then?
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John Fenderson (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:27am

They use markers
When they engineer the microbes,they insert specific nonfunctional gene sequences that act as a fingerprint. This lets them determine if the bug is theirs or not.
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Ryan, 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:30am

Goddamn greedy corporations, we need to get the G-men we voted for in there to regulate the hell out of them!

Wait, shit. I just copied and pasted that argument template from somewhere, but it doesn't even really apply here...sorry guys.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:41am

Re: Even Bigger Sigh
Oh come on, I was joking. I seriously didn't mean any offense. And I certainly don't have any issues with your religion that I don't have with most others.

I humbly apologize not only to you, but to all your wives as well....

JOKING!!!
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Tom Landry (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:53am

Re: They use markers
sure, take the fun out of everything.....
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Jeff, 4 Mar 2010 @ 11:57am

Re: SO....
Probably the opposite. You get sick in Utah, then you gotta pay up. You are using their microbes after all.
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Marni, 4 Mar 2010 @ 12:15pm

One might take this further and suggest they think they own the residents of the state, since they are organisms too.
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A. Lincoln, 4 Mar 2010 @ 12:28pm

Slavery again?
So, Utah will be the first to engage in Microbe slavery. They OWN those lifeforms!

What's the precedent for this? Do they own all of the living organism in the state? And if they do, are they responsible for the actions of those living organisms?

Do they own all of the stray cats? Do they own all of the gophers?

Where does there "ownership" end?
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Josh (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 12:50pm

Re: Re: Even Bigger Sigh
Shame on you Dark Helmet, making fun of poor Mormans. That's like making fun of Scientologists, it's just not polite.(What was that sarcasm mark again? Oh yeah. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100115/1200127774.shtml)
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Josh (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 12:52pm

Is it April Fool's day already? No? Then why is this here? You mean they're serious?! ... *facepalm*
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Jim C, 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:01pm

Utah's microbes
I think this is a great idea. As Utah needs to take ownership of it's microbes. Of course if I get sick from one of Utah's microbes I'll have to sue them for damages caused by their microbe. That's only fair.
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PEBKAC (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:02pm

Re: Cooties
Worse - they want you to pay for their cooties.

So what's the market like for Utah-grown trichinosis? Or scabies? Or chiggers? Or herpes?
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UniKyrn, 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:04pm

No problem. The next case of food poisoning in Utah, must have been a Utah microbe owned by the state that caused it, the state pays for all damages caused by it.

Repeat as needed with any other disease until legislature gets the point.
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PEBKAC (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:04pm

Re: If....
You only have to hold it if you want to retain ownership distribution rights.
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yozoo, 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:06pm

Chinatown
Forget it Mike . . . its Utah.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:09pm

Utah is my home, my family is here and the location is familiar, but, i would not blink a eye if our entire state government died tomorrow.

seriously, these people are so far backwards and up there own Mormon ass they cant smell there own shit and cant see where they are walking.
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Overcast (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:24pm

Re: SO....
If I get sick in Utah can I sue the state? JW

I would think so - since they are claiming ownership. It would be like someone's dog biting you and their fault for not keeping it under control.
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Potato JOE, 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:34pm

well if the world needs a stupid pill
developed from utah well i guess they should get a piece a da action on it after all being stupid is what that state is all about

yup now no one will want to do a damn bit there.
GOOD JOB GOVT screw tech out buy claiming you own every molecule right down to the center of the earth YES think of the profits oh wait what if no one else does this.....
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bob, 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:34pm

It's dem tablets
that dem guys said they saw that had the organisms on em that grew the book of Mormon.
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Richard (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:35pm

Actually they might have a point but they're going the wrong way
At the moment, thanks to the gradual "stretching" of patent law, company X can come and dig up some microbes in Utah, patent them and then charge people in Utah for using them.

That itself is wrong, discoveries in nature should not be patentable.

Utah may think they have found a smart way to hit back and take some of the profit themselves - but they would be better off backing those who are trying to rein in patent law.
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Dave (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 1:56pm

Re: Even Bigger Sigh
I really wasn't offended. You have to have kind of a thick skin as a Mormon on the internet. There's a whole lot of vitriol out there directed at us. I only replied because I wanted to make clear my church is not my government. Our legislators might make decisions based on their beliefs, and they might consider themselves Mormon, but sometimes I would swear that they actually belong to some other church that shares nothing with mine except a name.

Thanks for the apology, though! Are we friends now? :)
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Sean T Henry (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 2:00pm

Re: Re: SO....
No they would be using you they take your energy and nutrients from your body and getting free transportation. Should change the state for rent... Could renting your body be considered prostitution though?
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Dave (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 2:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Even Bigger Sigh
Well Josh, Um. Yeah. It's generally not polite to make fun of others. I'm not sure anything positive ever comes out of being mean spirited.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 2:14pm

Won't pass
Can't patent naturally occurring organisms.

Moreover, it can't be copyrighted either, being as how it's naturally occurring.

They could patent novel ways to *use* their organisms, and copyright analysis and collected data about the organisms.

The stupidity of politicians never ceases to amaze me. Of course, it comes from an electorate that follows the same trajectory.

I'm *so* glad I moved out of that country before the fall. Hopefully, I can disengage my financials sufficiently before the collapse and the desperate grab for cash that will immediately precede it.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re: Even Bigger Sigh
We always were, kid. You just didn't know it... :)
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Chargone (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re: If....
*ponders* so that means, if a monkey poops in Utah, it does not own the rights it would need to then fling that poop, and as such can be sued for doing so? *laughs*
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 2:49pm

Re: SO....
i was thinking the exact same thing
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Reed, 4 Mar 2010 @ 3:06pm

Probable reason for this
Utah is the biggest manufacturer of supplements and vitamins in the United States. This huge and unregulated market is motivating their legislature with money signs in their eyes. They want a piece of the pie so to speak.

Of course the products are pure crap, wasting resources to make money from suckers who believe a pill or a drink is the key to health. With the pendulum continuously swinging towards buyer beware nowadays it makes you wonder if it will ever swing back again.
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Seumas Hyslop (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 3:07pm

What this could ultimately do is backfire, as the cost of research in Utah goes up, people start exporting their research to other states - and Utah loses the employment driven by research.
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PEBKAC (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 3:48pm

Re: Re: Re: If....
Luckily, poop is a renewable resource. You just need to do it elsewhere than Utah.

Although it's hardly a scarce resource, so you'd need to copyright your DNA to really have any control.

And lots of swabs.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 3:54pm

I wonder if comments here would change if instead of microbes the subject matter was oil, gold, or some other of a number of important and useful natural resources?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 7:02pm

Re:
I wonder if comments here would change if instead of microbes the subject matter was oil, gold, or some other of a number of important and useful natural resources?

Why would it change? Why should anyone have to pay a royalty to Utah for any of those things?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2010 @ 9:14pm

Re: Re:
I presume this means that if a vein of gold is discovered to underlie you home you would be perfectly satisfied to allow its removal and explotation by others without any benefits flowing to you and your family.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 4 Mar 2010 @ 10:22pm

Re: Re: Re:
I presume this means that if a vein of gold is discovered to underlie you home you would be perfectly satisfied to allow its removal and explotation by others without any benefits flowing to you and your family.

Are you really trying to compare excavation of private property with people doing something with a microbe?

I just want to confirm that you really want to make perhaps the most ridiculous argument you've ever made on this site -- and you've made a lot -- before destroying it as being idiotic.

I'll give you a chance to admit that you didn't really want to go down this path. I suggest you take it.
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bikey, 5 Mar 2010 @ 6:36am

microbes and ownership
This has nothing to do with crazy Utah, or mormondom. This is what many genetic-resource rich nations have been fighting for to keep from being ripped off by big pharma, monsanto, etc. You might not like the idea that a US state would do it, but it's not a cocamamie idea. Article 3 of the1992 Biodiversity Convention provides:
Article 3. Principle

States have, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law, the sovereign right to exploit their own resources pursuant to their own environmental policies, and the responsibility to ensure that activities within their jurisdiction or control do not cause damage to the environment of other States or of areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2010 @ 8:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/sbillamd/sb0051s01.pdf

It helps to first read a bill before waxing poetic.

The scope of the bill pertains only to lands owned by the "public" at large (in this case by Utah and its political subdivisions, and not federal land which encompasses most of the state (and which, by the way, Utah is apparently considering a showdown with the federal government by exploring the possiblity of the state using its emminent domain power to condemn federal land), and such "public" land is no different in kind than "private" land.

I express no opinion on the wisdom of such a law, nor do I express any opinion on any infirmities it may have vis a vis possibly relevant federal law. All I point out is that the concept is not something that can be dimissed by the mere waive of a hand and trying to relate basic law associated with real property to patent law.

If anything is ridiculous, it is your seeming reluctance to entertain for even a moment the notion that more may be in play than what your article might otherwise suggest.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 5 Mar 2010 @ 11:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It helps to first read a bill before waxing poetic.

I did, in fact, read it. Why you assume otherwise is beyond me, but is typical of you.

The scope of the bill pertains only to lands owned by the "public" at large (in this case by Utah and its political subdivisions, and not federal land which encompasses most of the state

And that somehow makes it okay?

I express no opinion on the wisdom of such a law

Yes, you did, actually. Don't try to back down now.

All I point out is that the concept is not something that can be dimissed by the mere waive of a hand and trying to relate basic law associated with real property to patent law.

Sure it is. I recognize that you have made it clear that you think that any law must be a good law and we should shut up about it, but I'm going to express my opinion, and not hide behind some lame false statement like you do.

This is a dumb law. It makes no sense and I have no problem explaining why. Comparing it to mining for gold is, frankly, ridiculous.

If anything is ridiculous, it is your seeming reluctance to entertain for even a moment the notion that more may be in play than what your article might otherwise suggest.

Not at all. First, I am always willing to entertain that there's more in play. That's why we leave the comments open so people can add more information and we can have a discussion. But you had no interest in having a discussion.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2010 @ 1:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I initially made a simple observation and asked aloud if the substitution of words might influence comments. This seems to me to be a legitimate contribution in that it might give some pause for reflection.

I noted the article did not make the distinction that the pending bill was limited to public land retained by the state of Utah. Moreover, the subject of the bill has absolutely nothing to do with patents.

Contrary to what you assert, I expressed no opinion on the wisdom and so stated. I likewise expressed no opinion on whether or not this type of law might run into problems with federal law. Thus, I am at a loss trying to figure out from what I should be backing down.

A more pertinent point that I believed you might raise is that unlike oil, gold, and other natural resources, organic matter such a plants, microbes, etc. are self-replicating, and that this might be a distinction worth exploring.
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Annie, 24 Jan 2014 @ 5:45pm

That does sound like a pretty greedy thing to do. Maybe he should become more familiarUtah patent laws, and what patents are really for. I agree, there would be no incentive with this.
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