Two Different Approaches Rockers Can Take To Musical Leaks

from the fan-appreciation dept

Fri, Feb 26th 2010 1:48pm — Mike Masnick

Remember how the last Guns 'N Roses album leaked to the internet -- and somehow the FBI thought it was a good use of their resources to get involved and arrest the guy who uploaded the files -- leading to him pleading guilty and getting two month's house arrest? Would you believe there's another approach?

Jeff Barr points us to the news that Vince Neil, the "sometimes lead vocalist for Motley Crue," has a new single out -- which first leaked to the internet. But rather than freak out about it, Neil decided to offer it up directly himself for free, and to make it more valuable to get it directly, by offering the track, the video for it and a desktop wallpaper in the official version. And with that announcement, he also reminded folks that the full album will be out later this year, and he hopes they're looking forward to it.

Which response do you think endears more fans? Which response makes a stronger bond between the musician and the fans? Which response is likely to make more people feel good about paying for stuff from an artist? Now, Vince Neil isn't as well known as Guns 'N Roses -- so it's not a direct comparison. But, it does offer a decent way to look at how different musicians handle similar situations.

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Filed Under: guns 'n roses, leaks, music, vince neil

45 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:03pm

I heard that sales of shiny plastic discs are down and continue to fall for the RIAA. In a recession? But I digress. How much of those "lost" sales are because the RIAA has an entitlement-complex and an inability to see past their latest quarter?

If you act like asshats, by suing fans of music and old people without computers or dead people with computers than how long before some people just stop consuming RIAA-based music?

But it's piracy. Yeah, that's the ticket. Children in their parent's basements downloading illegal tracks are what destroyed the recording industry.

How could an industry destroy itself? That's preposterous!
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Alan Gerow (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:26pm

Yeah, but didn't the GnR album take 28 years to complete...

Just goes to show you ... when artists can copyright their works and live off of royalties, they get lazy.

When you get paid to work, you have to keep working to keep getting paid. Evidently recording artists like to work a little bit, take a decade off, and then bitch about how all their hard work is being ripped off. Otherwise, they can't afford the mortgages on their multi-million dollar homes and might have to actually *gasp* live a more reasonable life.

Vince Neil on the other hand. That man's a class-act all the way. His time on Surreal Life proved that to me ... he's a real down-to-earth guy.
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Grammah Correction Specialist, 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:42pm

Generally speaking, it's a good idea to use the adverb "well" with the verb "feel." so that "feel good about" reads "feel well about" Also, feel free to scream which, which, which when you're real hungry and want a sandwich. Sane people will usually use a bullet list.

For grammah tips, tricks, help, and training, please visit this Facebook group-
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Taylorsville-UT/Daily-Grammar/36339933998
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:45pm

Re:
"Feel good" is perfectly fine. Repetition for emphasis is perfectly fine. Move along.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:50pm

@jerk i mean Grammah Correction Specialist
like wi da fook do i cares what the fook you think or what not, nothing like spelling proper so that they copy and try and use any data mined for whatevers ressons

perposedly speeled all wong wust for you anal spell checking faggy loving school twits and
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:53pm

Re: @jerk i mean Grammah Correction Specialist
I miss TAM.
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DS78 (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 2:55pm

Re: Re:
Don't take it so harsh. Pretend some made made a Dr Feel Good reference that you missed...
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:01pm

Re:
'Devotees of grammatical studies have not been distinguished for any very remarkable felicities of expression."
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Alan Gerow (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:04pm

Re:
I disagree, considering "good" is not meant to modify the verb, as it is not describing the ability to feel, but describing an emotional state.

By putting the adverb "well" with the verb "feel" you are using "well" to describe the action. So, if one says that they "feel well", then they would be saying that have adequate ability to feel.

Additionally "well" is also used to describe a state of health. So to "feel well" would also mean to be in a positive state of health, not an emotional state.

Using "good" implied an emotional state, so to "feel good" implies a positive emotion. "Good" in this case is not modifying "feel", but referencing the emotional state of the fans.

Mike used the appropriate usage. You are advising him poorly.
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fogbugzd (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re: @jerk i mean Grammah Correction Specialist
>>I miss TAM.

Never underestimate the value of a good critic (not saying he was a GOOD critic, but moving along...). Knowing there is a critic out there who will jump on your every mistake has a great effect. When you know your work will be dissected by the opposition and every logic flaw exposed it make you a lot more careful and forces you to tighten up your arguments before putting them on paper.

I had a feminist friend back in the late 70's who gave me a reading list of feminist literature and dared me to read it. My conclusion was that the main thing the women's movement needed was a good critic. Books like "Against Our Will" typically had a few good, well thought out pages at the beginning and then fell into circular arguments and worse. Of course, no man could accepted as a critic of the women's movement, and any woman who pointed out the flaws in a hallowed piece of feminist literature would be branded a traitor and dismissed.

Never underestimate the importance of your critics. Good critics force you to make your case stronger.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:21pm

Re: Re: @jerk i mean Grammah Correction Specialist
You drove him to blog drunk, and he got stopped by the Web Sheriff. *sigh*
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BruceLD (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:23pm

Stop making sense...!
Like the RIAA is ever going to care about common sense but what the heck...

The RIAA should just allow artists to promote some of their music for free. In fact they should allow them to promote their music through .bittorent so this way they are showing that artists and the RIAA are "hip" and open to digital sharing technology.

If the RIAA took the stance that they ARE offering things for free and ARE embracing technology this would certainly ease some/most of the tension between pirates from hating and boycotting them.

They could use the free samples to promote their albums that contain bonus content such as enveloping 5.1 surround sound audio, 3D music videos and all kinds of frilly little things. I could see autographed or "limited edition" CD's or DVD's being high prized big sellers. They could also track torrent usage and find out where to market their products by country/location.

"Create" buzz and stories about how "oh no it leaked!" and the capitalize it. Let the publicity promote music and artists. Get people talking about it. Controversy and shock still sells even though you have to think of new and creative ways to make things more interesting every year.

Let fans promote the music on Youtube limiting it to microphone captured audio only. Let the RIAA and artists give their blessings on this type of free promotion. If people really want to download it let them, but let everyone know that by buying CD or DVD's that they contain bonus content, videos and other kinds of things that allow fans to feel like they are closer to the artist.

Make customers feel "special" again. Make them feel like they are getting something important and unique from the artists that they idolize and adore. I remember when I was a preteen and having and holding my first Michael Jackson Thriller album and how it made me feel like I had a special connection to his music. Times and things have changed, but young and impressionable fans have not. They want to feel a special connection to music and artists.

Have the artists THANK pirates for helping promote them. This publicity can go a long way in the eyes of consumers.

DO NOT under ANY circumstance sue music fans. This is what is driving paying music fans away. Embrace them, embrace piracy and create new ways to sell innovative content.

I know if artists started selling enveloping 5.1 surround sound audio tracks and 3D videos i'd buy it. I already have a fully digital 7.1 surround sound system and massive HD TV. In terms of music and video enjoyment there is nothing out there yet that full takes advantage of all of today's technology.

If the RIAA doesn't want to evolve or adapt or listen to new ideas, then it's their fault for their own negative financial demise. Good riddance because eventually one day someone else will think up something that will fully eploit the digital experience and offer something that consumers actually want to pay for. Until then, the RIAA can go f*ck themselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:32pm

Re: Re: Re: @jerk i mean Grammah Correction Specialist
I disagree and here's why I'm kidding.

STRONG LIKE HULK!!!
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Grammah Correction Specialist, 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:33pm

Re: Re:
Bad news for yur commentz, Alan.

1.) If you're American, you have placed your comma outside of the quotation marks in "feel well", and "feel",

2.) Next, you use the word implied/imply, which means "to suggest", but is that really what you mean? I think the inferred/infer pair would be better words, which mean "to discover by reasoning."

3.) "In this case" is wordy. Why not drop it all together?

For moar grammah tips, tricks, help, and training, please visit this Facebook group-
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Taylorsville-UT/Daily-Grammar/36339933998
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btrussell (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 3:48pm

Re: Re:
Especially for this article.

Vince Neil

Motley Crue

Dr. Feelgood
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vyvyan, 26 Feb 2010 @ 4:00pm

Re:
well it was 15 years, I think for the rest you're right. They get lazy and even pass on mediocre stuff after a decade and cry "theft theft" when they fail.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 4:13pm

Re: Re: Re:
Wrong yet again.
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Alan Gerow (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 4:50pm

Re: Re:
I was being facetious with the "28" ... I guess I wasn't far off enough. :)
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 4:54pm

Re:
Asshat.
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Richard (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 4:58pm

Re:
The great musicians of the past, unable to sit back and live off royalties, continued to produce great work throughout their lives.
Few modern musicians have produced anything worth listening to past their fortieth birthdays (and in many cases the cut off is much earlier).
As Paul Gambaccini once remarked, the Rolling Stone have been on "commercial coast" since 1970...
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Alan Gerow (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 4:59pm

Re: Re: Re:
1) But the comma is not part of the quote. This is a logic point I make in the face of grammar. You did not type "feel well," with a comma, so if I were to include the comma inside the quotes, I would be misquoting you. Of course, you do the same thing in your point #2, so you must not be American if you attribute me being American with misplacing the comma.

2) No, I meant "to suggest".

3) But there are other cases where "good" could be modifying "feel", in which case "in this case" is specifying the particular instance we're discussing and not applying as a general rule.

Stop spamming crappy Facebook groups.

And I guess the Grammar Correction Specialist has no need for spell checker, because the Grammar Correction Specialist is going to have the Spelling Secret Police giving them a visit for not being able to spell "grammar", "comments", "your", or "more".

But seriously, I would never trust grammar tips from someone who can't spell "grammar".
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Richard (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 5:07pm

Two Cows
Sorry - bit off topic but here goes:

Copyright capitalism

You have two cows - but you can't distribute the milk yourself. The milk distributor gives you a lump sum in exchange for all the milk your cows produce and promises to pay you some more sometime later when he has recovered the lump sum.

This never happens because the distributor tells you that your milk isn't selling, even though cheese made from it seems to be on offer in every supermarket.

The money runs out so in desperation you try drinking the milk yourself - but the milk distributor's brother comes round and tell you that you aren't allowed to drink your own milk unless you pay him for it....
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Alan Gerow (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 5:11pm

Re: Re: Re:
Upon consideration, why does your comment not address the original point? Because you know you're wrong? Yes, that's it.

Your response did three things:
1. criticized my placement of a comma in relation to quotation marks ... does not defend your point.
2. offered a synonym for a word I used ... does not defend your point.
3. simply questioned the necessity of a phrase ... does not defend your point.

At no point did you address the points I make against your comment, so you concede that my argument is sound and that your original point flawed?
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Alan Gerow (profile), 26 Feb 2010 @ 5:19pm

Re: Re:
That's my favorite insult EVER.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Feb 2010 @ 5:23pm

Vince Neil isn't as well knows as GnR?
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JEDIDIAH, 26 Feb 2010 @ 5:47pm

I slight bit of redemption
> Vince Neil isn't as well knows as GnR?

Yeah. Obviously not a fan of the genre.
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teknosapien, 26 Feb 2010 @ 6:12pm

yea well even the DJ's around here
don't have very much respect for this band so it seems as maybe they are grasping at straws for what ever little money they can get with what ever little dignity they have left
some of the Philly area DJs refer to Axle as ASShole rose. Many refuse to promote their shows that come to the area

Hell maybe this is the begining of the end or these morons?
we can only hope
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vyvyan, 27 Feb 2010 @ 1:56am

Re: Re: Re:
Inferred/infer means "to deduce by reasoning/logic" which is different from "discovering."

Dis iz waht happens when you toddlers start learnin grammah frm phasebook and yoddle! answers.
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foxsan48 (profile), 28 Feb 2010 @ 7:21pm

Re: Stop making sense...!
hey i agree there mate
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Amused67, 1 Mar 2010 @ 12:10pm

Not as well known?
While I agree with most of what you said, there's one GLARING mistake. Vince Neil is every bit as well known as Axl Rose.

Ever hear of Motley F-ing Crue?
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Pitbull in VA, 1 Mar 2010 @ 12:15pm

Are you an idiot or what?
I don't know where you came up with the idea that Guns and Roses, are more well known than Vince Neil and Motley Crue. The Crue has been around a whole hell of a lot longer, and in my opinion are a better band. I'm just wondering if you bumped your head, or something of that nature to type that text diarrhea.
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Pitbull in VA (profile), 1 Mar 2010 @ 12:24pm

Are you an idiot or what?
"Now, Vince Neil isn't as well known as Guns 'N Roses -- so it's not a direct comparison. But, it does offer a decent way to look at how different musicians handle similar situations"

Dude what rock have you been living under? Vince Neil and Motley Crue aren't as well known as Guns and Roses my lilly white ass! The Crue was hot way before GNR and they kept it up way after GNR quit doing squat. Go write for Reader's Digest or something.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 1 Mar 2010 @ 12:36pm

Re: Are you an idiot or what?
I don't know where you came up with the idea that Guns and Roses, are more well known than Vince Neil and Motley Crue. The Crue has been around a whole hell of a lot longer, and in my opinion are a better band. I'm just wondering if you bumped your head, or something of that nature to type that text diarrhea.

No one said that Motley Crue wasn't well known or has been around for longer. But Vince Neil, by himself, is not Crue. That was my point. If you asked the average person on the street: do you know GNR or do you know Vince Neil, more people would know GNR.

It's not even close:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=guns+n+roses,+vince+neil&ctab=0&geo=all&date=al l&sort=1

Even if you compare GNR to Motley Crue, GNR tends to come out as more well known:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=guns+n+roses,+motley+crue&ctab=0&geo=all&date=a ll&sort=1
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Amused67, 1 Mar 2010 @ 1:02pm

Re: Are you an idiot or what?
Yeah, try this one, Einstein...

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Axl+Rose,+Motley+Crue&ctab=0&geo=all&date= all&sort=1
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Amused67, 1 Mar 2010 @ 1:02pm

Re: Are you an idiot or what?
Yeah, try this one, Einstein...

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Axl+Rose,+Motley+Crue&ctab=0&geo=all&date= all&sort=1
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Amused67, 1 Mar 2010 @ 1:03pm

Re: Are you an idiot or what?
Yeah, try this one, Einstein...

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Axl+Rose,+Motley+Crue&ctab=0&geo=all&date= all&sort=1
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deeeeee!., 1 Mar 2010 @ 2:17pm

Motley Crue:)
Like some of you were saying, Vince Neil is known pretty damn well. Motley Crue HAS been out longer than Guns, and as a matter of fact Motley were the ones to help Guns get anywhere by letting them be one of their opening bands.
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Jeff Barr, 1 Mar 2010 @ 2:20pm

Re: Re: Are you an idiot or what?
As much of a Crue fan as I am, I've got to agree with Mike. Ask most folks who aren't metalheads who Vince Neil is, and unless they watch reality TV, they probably don't have a clue (of course, they might not know who Axel is either).

Surprisingly (well, at least to me) was that G'n'R has more worldwide album sales than Crue as well. Of course, the Backstreet Boys have them both beat, so album sales are certainly no real measure of musical quality, no matter what the genre.

On the bright side, in Vince's facebook fan group, he posted "Cool Article", with a link back to this article!
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2010 @ 3:41pm

BULL SHIT CRUE OVER GUNS ANY DAY
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lance, 1 Mar 2010 @ 6:30pm

vince neil
vince neil is well known on his own and motley crue are still rockin and rollin and are one if not the best metal bands EVER...crue rules
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2010 @ 7:09pm

HOW CAN YOU SAY NEIL IS LESS NOTABLE THEN AXEL HELLO MOTLEY CRUE HAS BEEN AROUND LONG BEFORE GNR.......
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rick thompson, 1 Mar 2010 @ 9:53pm

less notable than GNR!? are you nuts Vince was rocking the house way before Axl....but onto your question....Vince has always had a good repore with his fans whether solo or as the frontman for the crue...I know I will buy his album at the end of the year. I already downloaded the free vid via facebook. Vince is legit.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2010 @ 1:44am

er
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Chopper, 2 Mar 2010 @ 10:19am

Re:
feel good is better, i dont recall Dr.Feelwell being Motley Crue's biggest album (featuring Vince on vocals)
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luna, 2 Mar 2010 @ 9:49pm

gnr vs vince neil
lets not kid ourselves they both seriously know how to put on a show and i would take them tickets to either group with gratitude. And really who is kicking that muchass lately? So i respectfully remove the vs from the subject. Rock on!!!!! And i have seen them at total of 10times.
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