Inventor Claims He Got Patent 20 Years After Filing... But Details Missing
from the patent-what? dept
Samkash sends over an odd story out of the Houston Chronicle, concerning an 82-year-old physicist named Roy Weinstein, who supposedly received a patent 20 years and three days after he applied for it on a type of "super magnet." There's an awful lot about the story that doesn't seem to add up, however. At first, I thought that the patent couldn't even be valid, because patents today expire exactly twenty years after they're filed. So a patent granted 20 years and three days after filing would, amusingly, have expired three days before it was granted (figure that out!). Except... then I remember that this only applies to patents filed after 1995. If I remember correctly, patents filed before that are given 17 years from when they're granted. So, it's entirely possible, if improbable, that the patent was granted and is now valid.So I went looking for the patent... and I can't find it (Updated below).
But the story continues to be bizarre. According to the article:
The patent lets Weinstein move forward with commercial development of his supermagnets that, when chilled to super-low temperatures, can produce a field with the strength of 2 tesla, billions of times stronger than the magnet on your refrigerator.The implication here, of course, is that for the past 20 years, this technology could not have been commercialized without the patent -- but that's ridiculous. Of course you can commercialize without a patent, and if the cost savings are really so incredible, there would have been tons of ways to make money, even sans patent. On top of that, it sounds like his other patents may be in the same basic field, so if he was really worried about protection, why not use those patents as well? But the whole claim that he couldn't commercialize for all this time just doesn't add up. And, frankly, if it's true that he decided to not do anything with this supposedly amazing technology just because he couldn't get a patent on it, it would make him an incredibly spiteful man to purposely deny the world some useful technology.
Weinstein's magnets are about the size of a stack of five dimes, weigh an ounce, and cost $300. Commercially available electromagnets that can produce a comparable magnetic field weigh two tons and cost $60,000 to $100,000, he says.
Weinstein said he is developing a $7 million agreement with Round Rock-based TECO-Westinghouse Motor Co. to construct a 1 megawatt motor that will be a prototype for a 10 megawatt version. The company declined comment.I've done plenty of business deals in my time, and I've never heard of anyone publicly announcing to the press the terms of a deal before the deal was signed -- especially a deal like a $7 million agreement with a single inventor. Perhaps such a deal is being worked on, but let's see what actually comes out of the negotiations first.
The story also claims that the patent only got approved when Roy's son started schmoozing the patent examiner in question, and apparently wore him down on the idea that the idea may have been obvious considering how many products already used similar technologies:
Instead of communicating by letters, Lee Weinstein called the patent examiner directly and struck up a relationship. He assuaged the examiner's concerns that a patent for the magnet would cover too many existing technologies and might restrict billions of dollars in trade.This seems rather insulting to the patent examiner in question, but also highlights how if you talk a good game, apparently the USPTO is willing to grant you patents.
"To be honest, this is an area of science that almost certainly a patent examiner wouldn't understand," Lee Weinstein said. "It's deep physics. I tried to help him understand that by granting a claim this wasn't reaching out and covering some technology it shouldn't cover."
Anyway, it seems like there are lots of holes in this story.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: patents
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Ouch!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There's this phrase just for this situation...
PATENT PENDING
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It... could... work...
As for why it hasn't been commercialized, I don't see much commercial application. The claim is that you can produce permanent magnets with intense, complex, precise magnetic fields, but it looks as if they're permanent only as long as they're kept cold. Yes, you could build a nifty motor, but you'd have to keep it in a bath of liquid nitrogen. The only application I can think of is in high-end particle accelerators, and that's a small market niche.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It... could... work...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It... could... work...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It... could... work...
This may be the same thing, but if he wasn't going to even try to commercialize it until the patent was approved, I doubt that he would have told PBS.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It... could... work...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pass the Aspirin...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Okay the geek in me comes out
In a ceramic superconductor "Although the magnets would have to be kept cool with liquid nitrogen," ...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Okay the geek in me comes out
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/10/magnifye-powerful-17-tesla.html
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Okay the geek in me comes out
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nothing to see, just move along....
Basically, this guy has patented superconducting magnets. No wonder it took 20 years to award, probably took that long to find something slightly original that could be patented...
It's been known for quite some time that supercooling magnets increases magnetism by 20-100%, depending on the material. There are a few companies, like Magnifye (http://fluxpump.co.uk/default.aspx) that make very high power (e.g. 17 Tesla) magnets out of exotic supercooled materials...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
One part of the story is wrong...
Instead of communicating by letters, Lee Weinstein called the patent examiner directly and struck up a relationship. He assuaged the examiner's concerns that a patent for the magnet would cover too many existing technologies and might restrict billions of dollars in trade.
"To be honest, this is an area of science that almost certainly a patent examiner wouldn't understand," Lee Weinstein said. "It's deep physics. I tried to help him understand that by granting a claim this wasn't reaching out and covering some technology it shouldn't cover."
This seems rather insulting to the patent examiner in question, but also highlights how if you talk a good game, apparently the USPTO is willing to grant you patents."
I looked at the last document communicated in PAIR from the applicant, "Petition for review by the Technology Center SPRE." Not only did the applicant NOT have any sort of relationship with any of the examiners, he essentially called them, in so many words, incompetent and ignorant and demanded the examiners who had been involved in the prosecution be removed from examination of his patent application.
So, a more appropriate statement might be, if you insult a bunch of patent examiners and accuse them of incompetence, and then ask to have them removed from examining your patent, apparently the USPTO is willing to grant you patents.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: One part of the story is wrong...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lack of commercialization
I can imagine a scenario where a company would refuse to consider an idea or an invention without the patent...
Then the actual application pending would also be a deterrent against anyone actually trying to develop the technology for fear of the eventual law suits
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Then the actual application pending would also be a deterrent against anyone actually trying to develop the technology for fear of the eventual law suits"
Ahh yes promoting the avancement of science indeed
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I agree with you, though, that fear of having the "invention" poached could have prevented him from putting it out there without Government protection. Not that I think that's a good way to have the system run...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This is one reason why I don't think any single person should be allowed to approve a patent but instead you should have a group of six of so elected people who vote on the validity of a patent application and then require at least a 2/3 majority for the patent to be granted.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
a group of six or so elected people.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Actually, that's how it works
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Often inventors need a patent to raise money to commercialize their invention. Do you have a few million laying around? Also, if he filed in 90 that was before GAAT so the patent will expire 17 years from date of issue.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Exactly how often does this occur and do you have statistics to support this?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
patents and wackos
Gettting multiple rejections on an applicatin id routine. I've never filed and gotten through on the first pass, but I've never recieved an ultimate rejection.(i.e. given up). so that's no big deal.
Anyone who claims "the physicss to to deep/mystrious/or-if I explain it you'll steal my idea" is pretty much guarenteed to be full of baloney, or deluded about what they think they have found.
His claim #1 reads to me as if he is attmepting to claim patent on High termperature superconductivity in and of it self, so that one is right out. The others may or may not have merit, I'd have to read all the otehrs to judge.
Many companies hold inventions as trade secrets and never disclose them, so not having a patent is not really an impedement to development.
To me, prsonally contacting a patent examiner to plead your case seems unethical. Some people are VERY persuasive in person, and that should not determine the course of an examination.
Announcing a deal before its signed is unethical, and if I was TECO, I'd slap him down hard. For this sort of negotaintion to even begin would normaly require non-disclosure statements to signed on each side.
I vote "wacko".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: patents and wackos
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
spelling
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
After scanning the file wrapper it quickly became clear that the applicant was not the one engaged in stringing out the prosecution of the application. In fact, I am a bit surprised that his attorney "tolerated" what was happening for such a long period of time before exasperation set in and a new examining group was requested (a highly unusual and rare move).
It appears as if the original examiners were dead set against allowing anything, and no arguments concerning the prior art cited against the original 151 claims were being entertained. Time and time again cogent arguments were presented as to why the examiners were mistaken in their understanding of the cited art, and each time they were seemingly dismissed with the wave of a hand. When this started to run into problems, the examiner then shifted position six years after the application was first considered and issued a requirement that the applicant "break up" the application into what would essentially have been 17 applications. This went on for a while until things eventually returned to a more conventional examination of claims. Once again, though, the examiner shifted to the "do not confuse me with facts" mode and rejected the claims.
This does not appear to be a case where the inventor and his counsel tried to game the system. Quite the opposite.
Merely as an aside, the inventor in this case is not your typical "I did it in my garage" type. He appears to be a well respected expert in this field of technology, and for the past 24 years has been associated in varying capacities (Dean, professor, etc.) in several scientific and engineering disciplines at the University of Houston.
The fact this application was in a pending status for 20 years is nothing short of astounding. Had it gone through an otherwise normal prosecution before the USPTO it would likely have issued about 1993 and would expire sometime this year (17 years from the date of issue given its pre-1995 filing date).
A rather unusual case indeed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Patents are fantastic
[ link to this | view in chronology ]