And... Here Come The iPad Patent Claims

from the live-by-the-patent... dept

Tue, Mar 30th 2010 3:39pm — Mike Masnick

Back when Steve Jobs launched the iPhone, one of the points he made clear in his presentation was how Apple had applied for over 200 patents on the device. And, yet, despite all of that, Apple has been sued over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And, of course, only recently did Apple file a patent lawsuit in the other direction.

Given all of this, it was really only a matter of time until the patent litigation began flying over the iPad. Slashdot points us to the news that Elan Microelectronics is seeking to ban the import of iPads into the US via the ever-popular ITC loophole. Amusingly, the whole point of the ITC injunction process is supposed to be to protect American companies against foreign companies importing in patented technology. Yet, in this case, it's a Taiwanese company suing an American company. This seems like a pure money grab, like many of the iPhone patent lawsuits, and once again demonstrates the problems of the patent thicket around mobile devices these days.

The patent in question 5,825,352 is for multi-touch screen inputs, and was apparently originally held by Logitech. Of course, in many ways this really highlights the points we've talked about. What Apple did with the iPhone was quite innovative, but wasn't really that inventive. It took concepts that had been out for a while, including multi-touch, and did something really cool with it: putting it into a compact, mobile device that people really wanted. The other players in the space weren't working on anything like that at all, and now patent battles are simply a waste of time holding back more innovation, rather than letting companies actually continue to come up with the next great thing.

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Filed Under: ipad, itc, loophole, patent
Companies: apple

33 Comments

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crade (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 4:12pm

You think that is bad.. Try building something new as a small company when you aren't big enough to ignore patents on current technology.
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Richard, 30 Mar 2010 @ 4:19pm

Whats more, there are currently over ONE THOUSAND patents relating to multi-touch interfaces around the world. Many of which are overlapping. That means that any company crazy enough to innovate in this direction can either buckle up or bend over. Granting ownership of concepts is an obscene subsidy for the old guard. I just cant help but to smile when their international enforcement lobbying pays off like this.

Why would any company that makes anything fire a shot at Apple. Especially with a broad patent like this. It's as if they don't read this blog :). You need to get a legal proxy who does nothing but sue companies. They're invulnerable to retaliation. shesh..
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 4:27pm

Litigation, the new business model
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- Ronald J Riley (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 5:40pm
  
  Theft, The New Business Model
  "Litigation, the new business model" Inventors sue when companies steal from them. For some reason we are really fed up with with those who steal our most valuable asset. Ronald J. Riley, I am speaking only on my own behalf. Affiliations: President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org President - Alliance for American Innovation Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel Washington, DC Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:04pm
    
    Re: Theft, The New Business Model
    Whoosh, the sound things going over Ronalds head
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 7:23pm
      
      Re: Re: Theft, The New Business Model
      So, waist high?
      
      *rimshot*
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  - Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:31pm
    
    Re: Theft, The New Business Model
    Wow, I didn't think you could make your signature any more ugly or more hilarious. Did you screw it up trying to add "scam artist" to the list?
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  - Mike, 30 Mar 2010 @ 7:44pm
    
    Re: Theft, The New Business Model
    Inventors sue after making a blatantly vague patent (ie. multitouch) which is so broad and the next obvious step, then do nothing to develop it, so they can wait until someone DOES. Then they make their money from the company that took the risk to develop an idea they legitimately came up with. ANYONE could have predicted that when a single touch screen came into the world, that the next LOGICAL step would be multitouch. You REALLY think you need a brain surgeon to figure that out?
    The patent is only valid if the have schematics that match Apple's identically. If it is not identical, then it is a different technology. You can't patent an idea, only a method to implement that idea. If you could, then I will patent the idea of disagreeing with someone else. That way, when you write you comment back to me, disagreeing with it, I can sue you for intellectual property infringement.
    Mike
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    - Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 8:20pm
      
      Re: Re: Theft, The New Business Model
      ... "sue after making a blatantly vague patent (ie. multitouch) which is so broad and the next obvious step, then do nothing to develop it, so they can wait until someone DOES."
      
      Is this description a submarine patent?
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    - Vic Kley, 30 Mar 2010 @ 10:11pm
      
      Re: Re: Theft, The New Business Model
      Multi-touch is not a circuit although it could be a logic array (as almost any program can be made into a state machine). So was gesture recognition- we used it and did not patent it. It's in the public domain.
      
      Obvious well Mike I don't think so but let's see there is a next step along this line.
      
      So what is the line MIke? What is the next step Mike? The obvious next step of course!
      Surprise me, go ahead!
      Although you understand when you state this "invention" you lose any chance to patent it.
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      - Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2010 @ 5:17am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Theft, The New Business Model
        What are you attempting to say?
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Chris Pratt, 30 Mar 2010 @ 4:33pm

Nothing new under the sun
In this day and age, I don't think there's really that much left to "invent" - hasn't been really for a while. Innovation, as you mention, is far more common, where existing things are simply combined in unique ways. Patent law has just gotten completely out of hand because more patents are so damn general that they end up covering a multitude of things that the company owning the patent is not directly developing. I also thinks it stinks a little of sour grapes. They're just upset that they aren't innovative enough themselves to be making money hand-over-fist like Apple is, so they're just going to latch on and try to suck Apple dry.
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- Ronald J Riley (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:04pm
  
  Re: Nothing new under the sun
  "In this day and age, I don't think there's really that much left to "invent"
  
  I have no doubt that this is true for you but fortunately there is much to invent, really an infinity of inventions yet to come.
  
  Ronald J. Riley,
  
  I am speaking only on my own behalf.
  Affiliations:
  President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
  Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
  Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
  President - Alliance for American Innovation
  Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
  Washington, DC
  Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Girls gotta get PayD, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:14pm
    
    Re: Re: Nothing new under the sun
    This is true, people are inventing new ways to get paid everyday.
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    - ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 7:25pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Nothing new under the sun
      It's a point of view!
      
      Now we just have to lock him up in a slow time envelope...
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  - crade (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:31pm
    
    Re: Re: Nothing new under the sun
    I agree with you, the reason technology is grinding to a halt is not because we have invented everything.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:10pm
  
  Re: Nothing new under the sun
  "Everything that can be invented - has already been invented"
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Ken Jackson, 30 Mar 2010 @ 5:12pm

Patent looks good...
Patent was filed in 1996. Looks pretty good. This really does look like THE multitouch patent. It does explicitly mention touchpads (like Synaptics) and even capacitive touch screens.

I wonder if the folks at Elan are friends with the folks at HTC?
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Ronald J Riley (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 5:21pm

Severely Flawed Reasoning
"Apple had applied for over 200 patents on the device."

"Apple has been sued over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And, of course, only recently did Apple file a patent lawsuit in the other direction."

"What Apple did with the iPhone was quite innovative, but wasn't really that inventive. It took concepts that had been out for a while, including multi-touch, and did something really cool with it"

Mike, you are talking about the difference between real invention and the process of stealing and combining others inventions which big companies like to call innovation.

Apple and other members of the Coalition for Patent Piracy & Fairness are sued again and again and again because they take liberties with others patent property rights repeatedly and despite Apple's 200 patents Apple no longer produces significant inventions.

All companies eventually have to acquire inventions from others. This is the normal evolution of companies. The only question is are they going to acquire them legitimately or are they going to try and play school yard bully. Most go through the bully stage and after being punished enough times they learn to do things the right way.

Apple has not learned this lesson yet but they will.

Ronald J. Riley,

I am speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:17pm
  
  Re: Severely Flawed Reasoning
  Coalition for Patent Piracy & Fairness
  
  Is this some silliness you just made up with your clubhouse chumbs?
  
  Seriously, this does not show you in a good light.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:34pm
  
  Re: Severely Flawed Reasoning
  Way to tie yourself into a giant logic knot. Either all patents are good (Apple is stealing inventions!!!!! (Which, by the way, shows your ignorance of the definition of steal)) or they aren't (Apple has 200 patents but doesn't invent anything).
  
  Perhaps you need to add "Senior Failure - Logic Academy" to your amazing signature.
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- George Margolin, 1 Apr 2010 @ 12:10am
  
  Re: Severely Flawed Reasoning
  MIKE - MIKE - MIKE -- you sounded almost like a reasonably knowledgeable person in your posting UNTIL you blew it by writing this bit of foolishness; "but wasn't really that inventive. It took concepts that had been out for a while, including multi-touch, and did something really cool with it: putting it into a compact, mobile device that people really wanted. The other players in the space weren't working on anything like that at all,- (HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT OR WHY SHOULD YOU ASSUME THAT?) and now patent battles are simply a waste of time holding back more innovation, rather than letting companies actually continue to come up with the next great thing." To quote Ralph Waldo Emerson many years ago; "INVENTION BREEDS INVENTION" and as I say -- Patents Breed Patents. But your unawareness that there are things called LICENSES to obtain a paid for RIGHT to use or incorporate those inventions which you might need, to complete your product -- STARTLES ME! So I hate to be the one to have to break this news to you, by creating a polite literary and original phrase (copyrighted of course) where I have to inform you that "You clearly don't know your ASTERISK from your FOOTNOTE!" Please learn what the Patent System is all about. You're not a bad writer -- sometimes actually good -- but you seem not to have the foggiest notion of what a patent IS and DOES and was created to DO and why it has permitted us to encompass various CREATIONS using existing components in innovative ways. Somthing like the wonderful phrase that Newton said; "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of others." But what the hell did Newton know? "Paying the piper" is part of the game since VIRTUALLY ALL patents results from OTHER patents. All one has to do is follow the rules of the road. George Margolin
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mjb5406 (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 5:52pm

What's good for the goose...
I guess since Apple has taken the gloves off and is suing HTC for so-called "infringement", it's just desserts that Apple gets a taste of its own medicine. Not that anything will come of this, but still...
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:19pm
  
  Re: What's good for the goose...
  Yeah ... but there is this problem. You see, there is a lot of wasted money - and guess who is paying.
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Kaden (profile), 30 Mar 2010 @ 5:58pm

Everything that's gonna be invented has already been invented.

Innovation is merely bodging together stolen inventions.

Gawd, the future would be fucked if either of you guys were in any way influential.
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Jimmy, 30 Mar 2010 @ 6:30pm

The iPad martyr
For the greater good, I actually hope Apple lose this one. It's sad to say, but I think until we see a high-profile US company and product get seriously screwed via crazy patent laws, there is very little hope of reform.
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Matthew Krum, 30 Mar 2010 @ 7:22pm

They seem to do this often...
It looks like Elam has sued many companies in the past including Apple.
http://moconews.net/article/419-taiwans-elan-microelectronics-sues-apple-over-multi-touch-patent-i nfrin/
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Vic Kley, 30 Mar 2010 @ 7:33pm

i (Corp) PAD
We were doing multi-touch on the touchpads I invented (4079194, 4214122) at our company in 1976. The company was called i Corp, and one of our product names was (ARE YOU READY?) the i Pad! Yes I had sat in on a discussion series at UC Berkeley with Alan Kay and his concept notebook computer the Dynabook. I invented the touch screen/pad (resistive and/or capacitive type) for the upcoming Dynabook and a display technology along with it. There was no software patents allowed then and we did not try to patent multi-touch.

Everything we did is in the public domain so MIKE innovators may feed to their hearts content. We never made a dime off the invention but I did learn that the foodie computer companies are not thankful for our gifts. I actually showed the technology to Steve Jobs in his storefront Apple shop, along with some graphic computing ideas and he told me he and Woz were perfectly happy with character graphics! Go figure! The only way that guy Jobs will pay is when a jury awards on infringement for the inventor.

No we make no claim on the i Pad name, i Corp has been dead for 30 years.
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NUKE intellectual property, 30 Mar 2010 @ 8:45pm

addon
hey why not add a 75$ tax on all "i" products this way we can scam er profit better
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2010 @ 2:10am

Vic talked about a multitouch circuit that works.

Over time, companies deliberately try to get around patents at the expense of making life more difficult for their users. To get around patents, people are asked to press buttons a little harder. For another example, take a look at Moto Labs tests of various smartphone single-finger touch tests:

http://labs.moto.com/robot_touchscreen_analysis/

Is it really that hard to license the proper IP?
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staff, 31 Mar 2010 @ 8:58am

payolla
"This seems like a pure money grab"

It's only a money grab if it's your money they're grabbing. If you don't let the real innovators protect their developments, everyone will just look for government jobs or "report" for payolla like you.
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- Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2010 @ 10:34am
  
  Re: payolla
  Yeah, the real innovators just wait around to sue...the real innovators.
  
  Wait.
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Kroneage, 2 Apr 2010 @ 4:02am

Elan Has Won Already! ;)
Elan has a presedent setting prior case cross licensing agreement with Logitech in their hands. They previously have just won in court against Synaptic, with the help of Elantech which was acquired from Logitech (including all prior patents) in late 2007, after they had first sued Apple early in that year. With Elantech and Elan now combined, they have the means to clobber Apple, with a big goober aimed via the ITC to pull Apple's iPlatform (and any other device using Multitouch) off the U.S. market!

The fact is they filed notice against Apple at the iPhone's announcement. These other companies have been in this business longer. The real thieves are Apple. Who only started to develop their phone after HTC released the first true Touchscreen Smartphone, only a year after the term Smartphone came into being (and it had multi-touch technology that was invented in 1970's for Kiosks and ATM's). Do any of you remember the iPaq? lol

Being the Arrogant Kings of Invention (more like thievery), has just come back to bite them. When iPhone was launched they were served patent infringement papers by numerous prior patent holders (too many to count). They chose to ignore them all in spite of them being granted prior to anything Apple had even filed for.

Just so you know; there will be a Patent dogpile on Apple and Steve Jobs iPlatform. They will be buried in a casket of their own arrogant making. Nokia and Elan already have precedent setting prior wins in court. Apple is only prolonging their pain! ....in the end they'll either have to pay the piper or get out!!!

After all they can't be serious about demanding payment themselves while refusing to pay others that came before them!

EXTRA EXTRA APPLE BULLIES IT'S WAY INTO MOBILE MARKET, ENDS UP MIRED IN IT'S OWN POO!!! ...hmmm reminds me of fascists regimes like Hitler's Nazi Germany. Where they got dumped on by the Whole World! haha

and more recently the Apple vs MS Mess, they lost in..... ;)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/162821/apple_slapped_with_multitouch_lawsuit.html

"Let me get this straight...A company is suing apple for stealing its IP...Apple is planning to sue someone who stole the IP they stole from someone else. Doesn't this sound familiar...

Apple steals GUI from Xerox...Before Xerox sues them, Apple is suing Microsoft for stealing it from them...Every one who sued lost."
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